Touring musicians: how do some artists just go on with no setlist?

Marley and Hendrix is a case of them being the undisputed bandleaders - they call the songs, the band follows. Dylan does this too. Guns n Roses very much have setlists or at least they used too.

Jam band and improvisatory music is much different to more structured performances like mainstream rock and pop. There's a whole component of free-flowing presence of mind and acute listening by the band members that allows a flexibility to mesh songs into one another and make up transitions on the fly.

If you ever watch a Phish or Grateful Dead concert, you will see this in action immediately and frequently. There's a whole laundry list of nonverbal commmunication happening at all times that lets them fly by the seat of their pants and shift dynamics and set list direction on a moment's notice. Including tons of musical cues that can indicate when they stop/start, go to a certain section of the song, and come back in from an extended jam.

By comparison, most mainstream artists have a rigorously planned and choreographed routine that goes along with the set list, so not very much room for improvisation or sudden changes. Most of the show is timed and rehearsed.

There’s a band in my area that does this. They all know their songs well and the frontman just calls them out based on what he thinks the crowd will respond to.

You have to read the room. The next song on the list might have better impact if it is held for a while, or a song further down the list may blow the roof off now, but not have the impact later.

Shotcaller here. Usually you discuss what three songs or so you'll start a set with. From there, you have to read the room, read the energy. If you know your repertoire well enough, it's almost an art form in itself. Is everyone singing? Is one person dancing? Do these people need a break? Are they drunk yet?

It's all about the read. Sets are better IMO when you let the energy guide the set list. Obviously if you're a huge act selling out arenas you need to pay attention to what you've played recently or what people will want to hear. But that's not most people. Nobody's posting our set list to a fan site.

I did a tour where we did the same set every night in order, but for the encores we had practiced about 90 minutes of material and would do maybe 20 of that every night. The leader would just bust into it, if he started the song, or else had hand signals he would flash us if one of Us needed to be the one to start it off. Like a baseball catcher. You had to be really on your toes, he would just bust into it and God help you if you were taking a sip of beer at the time.

For a while, Elvis Costello toured with a big Wheel of Songs, and they'd spin the wheel and do whichever song it landed on. That would mean being ready and able to play any song on the wheel, but not having to do them all every performance.

Two of the bands I'm in that are active at the regional level have totally different feelings about this😅 one never makes a set list (we're a collective with multiple songwriters who know each other's tunes plus a lot of covers), and the other probably wouldn't even take the stage if we didn't have a set list or at least a plan lol. We do make set lists sometimes in the first band, but that one evolved from being the backing band at jam sessions and we all have a long history of jamming together. I think the music (psych rock/funk/jazz/indie) lends itself to that method better than some genres. But we just feed off the crowd and someone either calls a tune outright before the last song ends or just starts riffing into it. Different folks for different strokes :)

My band leader would sometimes book us as "Live Band Karaoke" to get paying gigs. He'd leave a list of 100 songs we knew on each table. We'd do our best covers and originals for the opening set, then start bringing people up to do songs with us. Some times we'd get legit musicians who could front a band and some times we'd sing most of the song for the people, but we never knew what we were playing until they got up on stage and told us. We finished karaoke at 1am and would do the last hour based off what went over well during opening and karaoke. All of it was done on-the-fly.

Our trick was to pick songs that weren't technically difficult to play or remember. We also kept tablets in front of us with the chords, though we'd still some times end up calling out changes to each other. Me (bass) and both guitars were wireless so we could walk over to each other and be like,

"Remember; The bridge comes in on F" or whatever. We just watched out for nervous looks and helped each other.

Edit: Okay, I guess I'm going to toot my own horn a bit and say that it helps to have someone who enjoys chatting on the mic. I was "The Bass with the Face" to our keyboard player. She hated trying to fill dead air.

I fuckin' live for that shit.

Most of the bands I was in early on (80's) operated like that. Generally you have a bandleader who is really good at reading the mood of the room and they're thinking about what comes next as they're finishing up the last song. It's good exercise for learning how to think on your feet and roll with whatever comes up.

I usually have a set list but I rarely stick to it

My punk band does this on shorter sets. We all know what songs are in what tunings and if someone is feeling a song that they start, they just launch into it. Otherwise, we all play a game called “guess the song from the banter” and we’ve gotten pretty good at it. When someone launches the wrong song, we just kinda laugh it off. Doesn’t usually happen more than twice / night and the punk crowd laughs along.

That said, yeah, no thanks on my cover band. Setlists have to be thoroughly planned at 3+ hours of music. Give people rests and stuff. Also, setting up tones for certain songs and managing the 5 tunings…

And I don’t mean the technical side (like how the next song is actually communicated), I mean like what’s tour prep like? Is there a finite list that will get picked from; or you just gotta know EVERY song? Do bandleaders have tendencies, do they say something before the set, or something after the show about it. I’m just curious how their mind works so fluidly with an entire show for thousands of people. Crazy to me, lol.

I always have a setlist, but one of my bands basically took it as a suggestion. Constantly reading the room, extending songs, blending songs together, switching things up constantly. It required a lot of communication and trust. Personally, I prefer having a strict setlist and timing/choreographing everything perfectly, but with a more free-form genre, I understand the counter viewpoint.

We kind of do that. Our rhythm guitarist makes the setlist but nobody knows or pays attention. He will lead us and we have unique cues that only we recognize that indicate which song we are playing.

If you play the same set more than a few times you really don't need the list anymore. I never did the list, but the bassist always had one. I know it's just different strokes for different folks, but I truly think the difference in our case was that I practiced a lot and he didn't.

We usually follow the first 3 songs of our setlist and then I'd call the shots from there on with the remaining 40-odd songs just by reading the room and having a flow to the set.

There are a lot of variables here...what kind of music do you play (jazz? Jam band? Pop?), what kind of crowd do you have (30 year old beer drinkers? 20 year old college kids? 50 year olds?), what kind of show is it (3hr bar gig? 45min opening slot for a big tour? Headlining a big tour?). In my jammy beachy trio we did opening shows for a big act so we had to have our shit tightly scripted to hit our time and to try to get as much of a crowd reaction as possible, but when we play the bars we just wing it.

Another thing is, we have our songs organized by openers, closers, long jammers, single type songs, slow jams, etc. that makes it easier to wing it.

Sturgill. The man doesn't even call the songs, he just starts them and Miles his drummer tells the rest of the band over talkback what's happening.

I played in a touring band that played without a set list. We had sections that we had a skeleton structure - So the set beginning and close, and new when the singer went for his acoustic that we were playing 3 in a row, beyond that we would just wing it. Sometimes it falls flat, but you start to get a feel for what songs work and flow together. Its easy when your guitar, bass and drums, but if your doing music with electronics and programming or have a designed lighting show then you are wanting a structured set list to ensure everything flows.

My bandleader prefers no set list, but it drives me batty because we are simply not tight enough for that. I (the bassist) just joined 6 months ago, and the fiddler joined 3 months ago.

When we’re doing duo (vox/rhythm guitar and bass) and trio gigs (vox/rhythm guitar, dobro, bass), I have given up on keeping him on any kind of structure. I’ve learned a lot of his song intros so when I hear him talking about a Larry Cordle song I know he’s about to kick Black Diamond Strings.

What I’ve started doing providing song “suggestion” lists - so we don’t have a ton of dead air between songs while we try to remember what we have worked up. If it’s not on the list, then we shouldn’t call it.

It just so happens I put the “suggestion” list is in a kind of order that takes into account things like song vibe, speed, key, who sings it, how well we know it (don’t kick off the set on weak stuff), etc.

I keep the list by my pedal board, and then I’ll rattle off the next two or three songs and let the rest pick which one next. We definitely wind up playing songs that weren’t on my list, but this routine keeps that and dead air to a minimum while still keeping things loose.

Of the bands I follow - Special Consensus doesn’t use a set list on stage, but they have a very limited set of songs that stay in their current rotation and they have their stage patter super solid. I’ve caught so many of their shows (live and video) that I could probably guess 75% of their ‘set list’ for any given show.

Missy Raines and Allegheny have a set list, because Missy’s started using a tablet on stage the past couple years. They also keep a very short list of current repertoire so there isn’t a ton of variety from show to show.

Del McCoury’s band… I have no idea how the hell they pull it off. I haven’t seen them a lot in a short period of time so I don’t know how much variation they have from set to set. I also don’t know how many of the ‘requests’ he takes were already on the ‘set list’.

The Grateful Dead would, I believe, only choose the opening song & the closing song. All others were completely improvised. Makes for some really magical moments.

Easy tbh. We never wrote setlists. We had our standard opening song and closer, I'd decide what the 2nd song would be based on the vibe I got from the audience after watching them react to the supports (before we walked on stage, so the other guys knew what song to jump straight into after the opener) and I'd pick the set from there as we went after watching the audience during our first two songs and how they reacted to certain sections and what-not.

The majority of our songs started with guitar or vocals, followed with the rest of the band coming in after a couple of bars, so it was easy to do without any awkward pauses or on-stage chats between members. If I wanted to play a song which somebody else started (or needed the drummer to count in for us to start simultaneously), I'd have quick banter with the audience and introduce the song via said banter so the band knew what it was going to be.

If you're good at thinking on your feet and judging the audience, it's easy and makes the shows so much better. It also gives each show a unique vibe and gives fans a reason to post show setlists or record your shows. They never know what is going to happen.

If you can wrap your head around it and pull it off seamlessly, there is no better way to run a show. It takes practise though, like everything, so do it in rehearsal. Unless we're writing new material, our rehearsals are basically just gigs without an audience. I pull the setlist out of my ass in the same way. We setup how we do on stage and run from song-to-song without extended stopping, like we would on stage. It's important to rehearse the same layout you have on stage (even if that means you can't see each other's faces). Learning the body language cues of your band mates from the direction you see them on stage is invaluable.

Phish doesn't do set lists anymore. They used to plan the set meticulously for years, but now Trey (band leader) just calls tunes based on the crowd vibe and flow of the show. They have probably 300-400 tunes that they're ready to plan at any moment, but it took them years and years of practicing all day, every day to get to that point.

Play the same show 50-60 times a year and yeah, you know it. You should have your set list memorized.

Our drummer usually maintains a list with tempo and flow in mind, and we depart from it liberally.

If we're doing a string of opening slots, we'll nail down a 45 min all killer no filler and stick to it, but if it's a long set having fun, we just wing it, looking at the master list and calling based on the room.

It can depend on how familiar you are with the music and if you tend to associate them with a narrative too. Like if performing my own pieces and the mood of the audience and current events tends to align one way, it can be a bit like being a DJ even if you have a general lineup in mind. And as someone else pointed out if improvisation/jams are part of your style then it can present a lot more leeway for decisions made in-performance too. Bonus if there's a clock on stage or you're wearing a watch or something to give a sense of time.

Singers should always decide setlist as their instrument is affected by it the most. - me (Guitarist)

Some people are good at reading a room with what to do next. There's something about not planning everything and living in the moment that some people thrive on

Rarely used a set list with the guy i played for for many years . We used hand signals and little hand codes... If he pointed to his temple at the end of the show I knew we were playing Suspicious Minds next..

Trusting yourself to feel the energy and flow and tune in to the audience

I’ve played in groups where there was a general set list but depending on the crowd and the vibe we would change it up on the spot. While having a set list can be beneficial (especially if you’ve carefully choreographed and practice transitions) I’ve found that being flexible and playing to your crowd is really the way to go. In most cases we would at least string a few songs together and then decide which group of 3-4 songs would come next.

When you first start touring there is a real tight set list. After you've played 50 or so shows this gets boring. Calling out songs on the fly is more fun. Sometimes the crowd will really react to a song which may lead to choosing the next song.

Most of my shows are solo acoustic, so I've only got myself to worry about, but I very rarely use a setlist. Sometimes though I keep my songlist nearby in case I hit a wall. Mostly I just wing it and hope for the best!

Back in the 90s, my band played a lot of shows- several years well over 200 shows a year. Several shows we ended up just winging it- usually because we had van trouble or some issue that caused us to have to load in and immediately start playing. Because we were playing so often, we were tuned in to each other (pardon the pun) and knew each other’s guitar changes and which songs fit together, and whoever had the intro to a given song would just start into it and before we knew it, we’d have finished a seamless set. It always blew my mind when we pulled it off. I found a shitty old video on the youtubes of one of our shows we did this way, and I was amazed that it actually kind of held up.

I hope I remember this right, but I think Jason Isbell said something about they never needed a set list until they got big enough to have a lighting director. That person has to know the cues.

I never could stick to a set list. What I wrote down a while ago doesn’t fit the vibe at the moment.

We do this in one of the bands I play in and we run tracks too. Just gotta stay on my toes for the first note or two.

Do you know your bands songs or have a quick way to access them? That’s obviously the first step. The band also has to be structured as a real live band. Can’t have anything piped in or be trying to sound exactly like a studio recording with a click. If you got those two checked off it’s pretty easy to pull off actually just try it at a rehearsal

It's a bit like decent DJs at a party where they read the room as opposed to a pre recorded set

Always have a song in your head. You can have 5. but always have 1 at least. It really is that simple.

I play percussion in a jam band. We put a set list together but I don’t necessarily need to know it. I just listen, for the most part.

Anyone can if you don't have choreography/lighting cues/etc.

My band does set lists, and then we have an alternate list at the end that we use for "audibles" or encore. Sometimes we'll get like halfway through a set and realize we need to change it up a bit and cut songs and play our extra stash.

For more established bands, especially for those who are more keyboard driven (like Depeche Mode, NIN, Duran Duran, etc...) they have to use set lists, since their effects, sound banks, and sequences follow a specific order. Could you imagine the headache a sound tech and lighting tech would have if they practiced a specific set with lighting and video cues, and then had to do everything manually on the fly? That would totally destroy the experience.

We played the same set every time, so it may have looked like we didn't have a setlist, but at that point, we didn't need one.

Willie Nelson says he doesn’t, but his setlist has been mostly the same everytime I’ve seen him.

One of my bands have played long enough and have a large enough set list to that we'll decide the first 3 songs in the green room, then either someone will shout one out or someone will start the song right after the one before ends

lol I remember my band didn't have a set list... we would play the same song twice and sometimes forgot what song was next

I memorize the set list. The songs are muscle memory and the band rehearses the set pretty hard for a couple weeks before we play shows.

The front man prints us some fancy set lists sometimes, but I rarely look down at them.

It was different in the old days when songs were more form-centric. Bands playing a lot of standards could just call them out and the band is like okay, another 1-4-5.
Once you devout to the number system, it becomes easy to even figure out a song on the fly that you know but have never played before.

It depends on the management, and the support crew. For the big shows, with tons of crew, everything is scripted, right down to how many seconds of talking between songs.

Jeff Buckley allegedly used to show up to places and just start playing, literally whatever, from jazz standards go Hendrix covers. In some of his live recorded albums on Spotify you can hear him fret his way through an intro and then sorta find his way to the song that he should play next.

People would call him a human radio because of how quickly he might shift from one song to another.

Most bands have a lot of songs that they can play at the drop of a hat, so there's never any issue with not having enough material to play. My band can play 4 hours without repeating anything and there's still a lot of songs left over:

https://youtu.be/9uzW1tfnJoE?si=_t1Hz_ObUfmEn6zm

When you play out you need to be flexible and know how to roll with the punches. Notice in this clip at time 8:30 what happened is the singer held up the mic to me for my melodica solo and she dropped her martini glass and it shattered in a million pieces at her feet. But of course we kept playing, that's what you gotta do.

Our drummer prepares the set list but every time we play out our singer makes changes to it at the spur of the moment - "we're not doing that one, let's add this one instead.. let's do this one first, followed by that other one after...".

You have to be flexible. And obviously you have to know how to be ready to play a song within a few seconds of it being called out. As a keyboardist I've got all the songs loaded by name into the keyboard and all I have to do it is dial it up. But it should be noted that my song patches draw from a pool of a handful of generic patches - strings, organ, piano, horns, bells, EP, powersynth and that's about it. So I don't really need each song loaded into the keybboard, I just need the generic patches to be easily accessible. When you play in a cover band, as I do, this is the best way to do it.

One of the bands I was a member of never had set lists. We'd do a 3-nighter and none of the sets were the same. My Dad used to come out to every local show and he mentioned that one night.. We knew our stuff, and usually songs were played in groups anyways... If we played Song A, we generally played Song B, C, and D in the same part of the set... maybe in the same order maybe not. Maybe the 2nd set, maybe the 3rd...

I recall one New Years gig where we were playing a song that was a request... so not something we'd usually do... we were about 2 or 3 bars away from the end of the song and I couldn't read the bandleader... I had no idea what was coming up. I looked at the drummer and on the 2 of the count-in he yells "C"... I had time to slide down and power out a C chord... and it was the perfect segue to get into Can't Get Enough.

Good times :D

With the will of god and also embracing chaos

Yeah no. There are too many songs to remember. I can’t just be randomly recalling a song I haven’t played in 5 years.

Everything is planned and rehearsed to death.... The band may have 40 songs in the locker for a 30 song set/night.... It's been gone over so many times just a piece of paper with the first word of each song taped to the stage is plenty for the plan.... that;s my experience anyway

A bit off topic but bread-and-butter performing musicians at clubs and weddings traditionally did not use a setlist. Your job is to keep the dance floor packed, so about 30 seconds before the end of each song you look at the crowd, you look at the folks on the dance floor and sometimes with input from the side men the leader calls the next song. 

No musician worth his salt will accidentally repeat a song in one night. I use backing tracks so know down to the second how long my set will take....except people almost always throw out requests so it's back to "read the room, get the vibe, and adjust during break if you can"

Phish haven’t used a setlist in 40 yrs. They also never play the same show and not too many repeats on a tour. Most normies don’t know much about phish so, have a great musical weekend y’all!

These bigger artists are usually wearing In Ear Monitors that not only have a click to help them stay together but also cues that tell the musicians what comes next and how long before it starts

If your in touch with your band it's all just feel and improvising.

I haven't used a setlist it decades. I've got way more than enough material for four hours, and I'm not going to take the life out of live music by planning it.

Never used one in my life. I don't understand how people need them. Like, you don't know your material well enough to just play it?

What're you doing at rehearsals?