www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/02/woman-died-slapping-therapy-healer-sent-by-god-court-told
Woman who died at slapping therapy retreat viewed healer as ‘sent by God’, court told
And was the second death related to one of his "followers" not taking their insulin.
The court has heard that Xiao was convicted of manslaughter in Australia after a six-year-old boy with diabetes stopped taking insulin allegedly under his instruction and died about 17 months before Carr-Gomm’s death. He is said to have told participants in Australia there was “no pain, no gain”.
Gomm had also attended a previous workshop of his as well where she fell ill for the same reason but fortunately didn't die...that time.
I know I can’t throw stones because the US is one giant glass house, but jfc he shouldn’t have been out of jail less than 2 years after being responsible for the death of a child.
Maybe I'm in the wrong here but I'd rather see the parents go to jail than him.
There are snake oil salesmen everywhere. There always will be. Your duty as a parent, first and foremost is to do what's right for your children, and being convinced by a guy who claims to be a master in slap therapy tells me you don't even have the intellectual capacity to be producing offspring in the first place.
Same goes for this other woman. 71 years on this planet and she believed a guy could slap the diabetes out of her.
It's a wonder she made it as long as she did.
Let’s meet in the middle. Throw both in jail?
Yeah, co-conspirers.
Happy compromise. Except for the abusers, but fuck them.
I mean yeah, that sucks that some parents are dumb, but you can't make dumb illegal. You can make being a lying scumbag who takes advantage of that illegal though. You just have to care enough to do it.
Edit: I'd be illegal
but you can't make dumb illegal
You CAN make negligence illegal though, and choosing to not give your child their life saving medication is absolutely negligent behavior.
Nobodies allowed to fall victim to conmen during moments of psychological stress on your watch huh.
I’m not saying that’s what happened to the parents, but if you have at least a little bit of empathy, and I’m sure you do, you should be able to figure out why making stupid illegal is a terrible idea. I’m sure once you’re hit with the reality of having a debilitating illness for 71 years, you can understand why someone could grow desperate for answers, desperate enough to listen to an evil liar.
I understand it, of course.
But there needs to be some personal responsibility. This was in the UK. Healthcare is free. She could have spoken to any number of healthcare professionals who would have explained to her why taking her insulin was a bad idea, and why it would kill her in the most excruciating way possible.
And you know what, I bet she did. I bet she heard their advice and decided against it anyway. Because that's what idiots do.
I bet she got the advice she really wanted from Facebook. Mark Zuckerberg has got blood on his hands by giving all these boomer idiots a place to vent their lunacy in a padded echo chamber.
Anti vax, 4g conspiracies, etc.
It's all because these fucking idiots haven't got an ounce of common sense, and they are corralled into online pens with other idiots like themselves to reinforce their moronic opinions.
Stupidity will always exist, but stupidity doesn't do these things on its own - it's led astray.
Which is why it absolutely should be on the person advocating for others to do self-destructive behavior to be punished for pushing people into that, regardless of "personal responsibility".
Why make murder illegal? Clearly the victim shouldn't have gotten in the argument, or been out at night, or whatever thing we deem they did wrong to put themselves in the situation. Except that's obviously absurd. We don't think that way.
I would definitely agree the parents were more wrong because they’re responsible for their kid, but to me he should have been in jail longer and then they should have been in as long or longer than him.
Agreed
Well... yeah. With a title like "woman who died at slapping therapy camp" heavily implies she was seemingly beat to death.
I personally wouldnt expect someone who has a masters in beating the shit out of me, i wouldnt take advice on my medical needs from them. They werent technically wrong though, they did cure her diabetes. It just came with a side effect of death.
The question i have is, was the slap camp councilor the religious person? Or did she join this camp and the leaders there was just for it? Sounds like he was in favor of it and encouraged it, but wasnt the one who told her to stop taking it BEFORE the retreat and she was looking for alternative ways to get away from insulin and ways to cure her diabetes. He just said it was a good idea in more convincing words. Though they were guilty of gross misconduct by not calling for medical help and instead taking the cult fanatic route of "she'll be fine, after this agonizing pain event". I still think the manslaughter charge should stick, seeing as they didnt call medical professionals to help her. But anything extra they are getting this group for... well... It sounds like it was the ladies choice and in california right now, they are big on "your choice to -" currently. Its ultimately her fault she died, BUT she could have been saved to learn a valuable lesson had the people around her had done the RIGHT thing.
But what about the 7 yo boy?? To me it sounds like he told them both to stop taking it (even if he’s saying otherwise).
You cant 'tell a 7 yr old that isnt yours' what to do. That would fall under the parents at that point, unless they gave him guardianship control.
Yes, but the (IMO) parents wouldn‘t have stopped giving it to him if they hadn't been told they should.
Thats where things get muddled. The parents deserve to be charged on top of the leader. The parents should get actual murder charges, with manslaughter charges to the leader. They had a choice, and they chose poorly and caused their child to die. He was the mastermind in theory, but ultimately it was their call.
Murder charges all around. A cult leader convincing his cultists to kill their children.
Just like Jim Jones.
Or Charles Manson!
Sounds like he was in favor of it and encouraged it, but wasnt the one who told her to stop taking it BEFORE the retreat and she was looking for alternative ways to get away from insulin and ways to cure her diabetes.
Telling someone to "stop taking medication prescribed by a medical doctor" is medical advice and anyone who does this and causes death or serious injury should be charged with practicing medicine without a license.
The question comes down to WHO told them to stop taking medicine. Encouraging someone to 'find another medicine' is not the same as telling them to stop, and where things get tricky. Plus if they do tell you to stop, and say "this is not medical advice" or something along those lines, it exempts them partially.
This is why law is complicated.
Plus if they do tell you to stop, and say "this is not medical advice" or something along those lines, it exempts them partially.
Not true. You cant run a doctors office and go "this is not medical advice" after seeing patients and avoid arrest for not having a medical license. The laws are on the books, but its up to prosecutors to start prosecuting these scam artists for breaking those laws.
I don’t know man slapping can be really good for people, for example one day in work my co worker who was 64 years old was out for a jog at lunch and when she got back to her desk she went all pale and nearly fainted. The guy sitting next to her grabbed her by her shirt and started slapping her across her face to wake her up. All our team hated her and I had to run away as I couldn’t stop laughing so hard. It was one of the funniest days I have had in work I felt great afterwards
Anyone who watched old movies and TV learned that a swift slap in the face would cure what ails 'ya. Especially excitability disorders. "Snap out of it!" Whap!
cure what ails 'ya. Especially excitability disorders. "Snap out of it!" Whap!
As demonstrated by this (comedy) scene in the movie "Airplane": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GW0Vnr9Yc
Abrahams & Zuckers knew the score. Traditional man slaps woman got turned around in Moonstruck:
Did that actually wake her up? Pouring cold water on them usually works better for that
The Three Stooges built an entire career on slapping. Well, except for Joe and Curly Joe.
wow, seriously going for guilty just for not being a medical expert? thats low
Laws exist for that purpose. If you dont know someone is having a medical episode, and dont call becausae of a perceived medical response, you are guilty of a crime.
This headline is a slap in the face
Someone should be slapped for it.
Hey you gotta pay for those
So he just kept slapping the insulin out of her hand.
And when she got sick they didn't call an ambulance or doctor.
Darwin would be proud
That's worse!
Er. Uh. Well, it's not better anyway. I think?
You never heard of “sugar snaps?”
So the beats did or didn’t help? Asking for a friend
cult indoctrination to make them weak so they pay more into the program.
like all those televangelists who told their followers to ignore the vax then donate to them
Another cult leader victim. Some people need to be in prison and this guy is one of them.
His mistake was not getting enough followers first. Christian Scientists die every year from refusing medical treatment, MAGA-ites died in droves after refusing the COVID vaccine, no one is ever punished.
What a confusing ambiguous and misleading statement regarding Christian scientists with no contextual examples. Regardless of faith there were a lot of people misled to believe that vaccines are bad. Here in the UK a considerable amount of educated atheist healthcare practitioners did not want to get vaccinated. I had to encourage my (like myself) left leaning colleagues (who were non Christian doctors and nurses) to get vaccinated and to wear their masks during the peak of the pandemic. Does that make sense through your world view? No, but yet it happened a lot. Be more specific with your responses or else you’re just as ‘good and moral’ as those you think the worst of.
Christian Science is a belief system. Google it. It doesn’t mean “scientists who are Christian.”
Short summary is that they are sect that believe in faith healing and refuse medical care. They are the reason the U.S. had laws that prevented parents from being charged with medical neglect if they seek religious treatment instead of regular medicine.
The biggest issue is that you will always go against some religions or some more established cults that will heavily push back against attempts to actually...well, properly make this shit enforcable.
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You don't feel bad for people who are taken advantage of during their weakest moments?
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Nevermind that most of the information out there is maliciously wrong and algorithmically driven to get people addicted...
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Yes I do, https://wondermark.com/c/1062/
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Hmm, it's about you, though and addresses your concerns precisely.
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Sometimes people lose loved ones that are a foundation for their reality. You say all of this because you lack particular experience which isn’t your fault.
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She was 71. Very likely some kind of dementia going on. Do you not feel badly for old people who get scammed out of their money either?
That's just plain clueless about the kind of vulnerability that tends to factor into these. Poor mental health and mental illness, heavy loss, neurodivergence, intense and prolonged isolation, family construct, religious corruption, etc.. You have an assumption of familial connection, but many of them lack exactly that, and for the elderly it often requires a lot more persistence to get them to take an idea to heart and keep it on a day to day basis. They plain forget a lot. There's a reason they're often the primary targets of grifts. You don't get critical thinking points for ignorantly absolving yourself of basic compassion.
Ya, ik you’re being downvoted, but the brainwashing that is hand and hand with the belief in skydaddy is undeniable.
Yeah I guess the cult leader really isn't at fault here.
Did i say that they werent complicit? Where did i say that? Please let me know where i said the leader of the cult is innocent…
You can not feel bad for someone and also believe that people are guilty of a crime…
I simply dont feel sorry for someone who put themselves in that situation…
When you see a video of a group of kids at a street takeover and they get hit by a car, nobody is going, oh man, i feel terrible for that person…they are the victims of brainwashing too…peer pressure…is that too complex of thought for you?
Some people do feel bad for people who get hit during street takeovers, even if they think that street takeovers are stupid and dangerous and antisocial.
Can you please stop speaking for everyone? You clearly have some problems relating to other humans.
Did i say that they werent complicit? Where did i say that?
Someone said the cult leader should be in jail and made no mention of the victim. You responded with
"Nah..."
And then you went on to victim blame.
The entirety of your reply was based on moving the blame from the cult leader to the victims.
I was shocked to read a child also died months before from stopping his insulin. You’d think that would help you change your approach.
beliefs are stronger than facts for some people
Clearly the early results indicated that more slapping was required.
Perhaps if we slap them faster and longer -- with just the right amount of force -- the breakthrough the drug companies don't want you to know about is right around the corner.
No pain, no gain!
That's a horrible way to go. When you stop taking insulin your body can no longer use carbs for energy, so It starts breaking down fat, and does it way faster than any dieting can do. Problem is when that much fat is burned it produces keytones, which are acidic and they turn your blood to acid, literally. Feels like how it sounds, ketoacidosis makes you feel like you just ran an entire marathon non stop without a sip of water whenever you walk across the room, claiming a flight of stairs takes all your strength and your left with your chest burning and gasping for air. You become so thirsty and have to pee so badly every few minutes or else or hurts immensely. You have horrible heartburn and can't keep any food down and eventually your organs start shutting down and you slip into a coma. Last time I had it I forgot who my wife and son were and shit and pissed myself. That was from like a week and a half of rationing insulin because my insurance cut me off and I couldn't afford it, I can't imagine just not taking any at all.
I think the weight loss is part of the problem. Unless you understand how diabetes works, losing weight may seem like a good thing. She was probably being told that she was doing good and that she was doing the right thing.
There’s actually a thing called diabulimia, in which people deliberately take less insulin than required so they will lose weight.
Yeah, my dad is a terrible diabetic, especially because of his drug use and alcoholism.
He would use his weight against me, because since I'm fat, I'm obviously less healthy than he is. He still does it even after his diabetes doctor told him that his severe weightless is a terrible sign
Wtf, so how do people who purposely go into keto do it?
Keto does not equal ketoacidosis. Ketosis is how the diet works, and it's only using fat to fuel your body, ketoacidosis is what the original comment described. The difference is that you still have insulin to deal with carbs, you just don't consume many carbs. In ketoacidosis you lack the insulin and you get acidic blood. They are very different.
Folks who follow the keto diet are aiming for ketosis, not ketoacidosis.
People purposely going into keto are going into ketosis, not ketoacidosis
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Reminds me of a video I once saw where this guy was teaching people they could put up force fields or some wild stuff and he just completely piledrives some lady hurting her pretty badly.
I will report back with the video or a gif if I can find it, if not maybe somebody else can throw it up.
That video is fucking hilarious! And the way he tried to blame the other people lmao
The little fake fit so everyone focuses on him instead of the old lady he just folded in two is the icing on the cake.
I fucking lost it the first time I watched it.
It's honestly hard to believe people can be that stupid, but then you see shit like that and it's a reminder of just how incredibly stupid a lot of people are.
Like we're talking, fully grown adults who aren't smarter than some toddlers.
https://youtu.be/Pt3LDiqLJWs?feature=shared
This one? Piledrive incident at 6:40.
Another link in case you don't want to listen to dave grohl give the fucking pregame, play by play,post game commentary https://youtu.be/SU-OFhMcw9Q?si=5KYb65LT0XtPBEuQ
And here is another one of somedude getting the bullshido knocked out of him
I like how he saw he literally sits up and looks at her but then pretends to get hit with a psychic trance after the fact so he doesn't have to deal with it
In a longer version he starts putting the blame on the other dudes like saying "Where the fuck were you guys"
dave grohl
💯😂
Start at 6:05 for some hilarious dragon ball z style defense.
man I had a suspicion that it was that video. but when the other person said piledrive I thought it was the wrestling move. was already excited but sorely disappointed
Yeah i think they meant bulldozed through her.
Presented to you by the singer of Monster Magnet.
Bahahahahah, yup that is definitely the one thank you.
It’s her fault! You never drop your force field in an exercise! /s
"But she described “absolutely astonishing” improvements to her health and added that she foresaw “freedom after years of slavery” to her diabetes"
Technically she does now have freedom from living with diabetes. So, success?
Imagine getting paid to slap stupid people, this 'healer' is one smart cookie.
I wish I lived on a timeline where belief in gods was a sign of insanity.
It was only a few centuries ago that not believing in god was considered a sign of insanity. I'd say it's not a matter if they believe in a higher power, but how they believe in it, how their belief effects them, and what they do with their faith, and for it.
This.
Faith in a higher power isn't inherently a good or bad thing. It's what you do with it. Believe that God is telling you to stab people in the testicles and eat asbestos? Yeah, that's bad. Believe that being good to other people is a good thing because that's what God tried teaching humans? Then I'd argue that's good.
If you have to believe in God "to be good", then I'd argue you aren't good and never were.
Judging peoples' souls in the name of atheism. Okay.
we're not judging people's souls. we're judging people's lack of morals. if you need to be told by an ancient book of mythology that rape, murder, and the lot is bad, you belong in a looney bin.
That's the dumbest response I've ever heard.
Its maddening to witness it.
It should be illegal to indoctrinate children into religion. Any religion.
Lets see how many still want to participate as an adult after that ban is put in place.
There really currently hasnt been a time in human history that believing in god was NOT okay. We are currently at the best timeline for that to exist to date as you can have the choice in a lot of places to NOT. The only time in human history we didnt believe in Gods, we worshiped things like fire, and the sun. Spirits were the keys to prosperity.
The few places that made it illegal to practice religion because the government ruled it didnt matter in a modern sense, were some of the WORST places to exist. Think Hitler's Reich or Mao's China. All becuase those leaders wanted to be Gods and be worshiped.
I could be wrong, but I think Hitlers Reich did not ban religion. Quite the contrary, their slogan in the early days was "Gott mit uns" ("God is with us"). Not only did the Catholic church fail to condemn the Third Reich but the church actually aided abetted numerous Nazis to escape after the war. (Edit: am wrong, see below).
Mao you are, of course, correct about though.
At the end of his reign with the third Reich, he did ban the church. He was originally 'pro church' on paper to get the religious to join him. After he turned on Russia, is when religion got banned.
He literally made his empire fall from the inside, while others were making it fall from the outside. The church stayed loyal to their congregations.
I stand corrected. Thanks for the reply.
The few places that made it illegal to practice religion because the government ruled it didnt matter in a modern sense, were some of the WORST places to exist. Think Hitler's Reich or Mao's China. All becuase those leaders wanted to be Gods and be worshiped
You can not want religion and also not want to be a god or be worshipped. That is also a choice. Lets try that one for a couple thousand years and see if we are in a better place as a whole.
It's not insanity, on an individual level it's a (rather successful) coping mechanism. So really it's just a symptom
Slapping therapy? Chris Brown's school of getting rocked? Is this really a thing?!
Im thinking about joining as a priest. You know I could be much more at peace I could slap the shit out of the biggest dumbasses I encounter daily? Here they are self selecting for you, and agreeing to it... sign me up
Oh, you just gave me a million dollar idea. People signing up for this therapy... while signing up "priests" for anger management.
HOLY SHIT!!!! DID WE JUST BECOME BUSINESS PARTNERS???
We can expand to the "beta" males and advertise as "we'll slap the bitch out of you"
OMG we can sell supplements. (Really just pills packed with thistle and ghost pepper) and call it "smack the taste out ya mouth".
You think will smith is up to be our spokesman
"Xiao was not medically trained..."
Huh, color me shocked.
Died doing what she loved. Being bitch slapped to death sans insulin.
How can she slap??
That headline is a lot to process.
"I have a message from God for you. He says: 'See you soon'". slap
Carr-Gomm had sought alternatives to her insulin because she was a vegetarian and had a fear of needles.
LOL, wut? No one told her insulin isn't made from pigs and cows anymore? Or was she against cruelty to bacteria?
I want to bet it was more because of the needles.
Ain’t no cure for Type 1 diabetes yet, and there never will be a cure for Stupid.
But the treatments we do have for diabetes are really good, so people should use them
Totally agree. 53 years T1D here and the stuff we have available to us now definitely beats getting the shit and life slapped out of me by some cult leader. I’ll keep my pump and CGM thank u very much. Sad about her dying but this whole episode was stooopid and avoidable.
Godslap
People sure can be weird.
slapping
therapy
retreat
🤨
I want to be paid to slap stupid people.
My sympathy does wane when a grown women thinks someone is sent from God to slap her into health. Feels like a Darwin award.
She never did find out what the five fingers said to the face.
... and the world's average IQ increased.
She did have it coming.
-god
Sent her ass to god lol
What is wild to me is that people fall for these things. They put more trust in “religious healing” than proven medical science.
Natural selection
This is not nottheonion. Cuits do this regularly.
She met Dana White?
I reckon they did not slap some sense into her.
Healer slapped her dumb ass right to god apparently
If you're devoutly religious, then surely every person was sent by God?
This is what religion does to a mind
When are we going to treat religious belief as the mental health crisis it is?
I've always found it wild that we can effectively throw people into institutions for having, quite frankly, less delusional beliefs.
Obviously, he was NOT sent by God...unless He meant to slap some sense into the woman
He was sent by God, it was a summons.
Idiot.
Slapped into next life.
Sent her too God
Must have slapped the bejesus right out of her
I think more religious people should give this place a go.
Slap therapy?
Wait there is a place I can go to slap people for therapy? Im in.
I've just decided I want to be a slapping therapist.
Shades of Falun Gong here.
Thoughts and prayers
/s
I really wish the church would stop trying to invade kink spaces when they have no concept of aftercare or safe words.....
Slapping therapy ............. :/ m-kay smh and the Darwin award goes too..
Religion kills.
She was 71? It's wild that people without anything above the brainstem make it to the age of 71.
Sent by God, yep. The good lord giveth life, and the good lord taketh away
Believe it or not, cultists suffer consequences too.
So can we subpoena God?
Maybe he was and she was just a shitty person
I'm sure I'm going to regret asking this, but can someone tell me WTF slap therapy is?
“ a method through which "poisonous waste" is expelled from the body through patting and slapping parts of the body.”
Basically they beat the shit out of you.
Ah! the Russian method of curing homosexuality !?
Sent by god. Sent to god. Prepositions are tricky.
Well, they sent her to God
Same day delivery to heaven
Is what I would say if I didn't get to know it was about diabetes
Someone should slap some sense into these people.
And I view her as "sent TO God."
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Ah yes! the good old efficient slapping therapy.
People should educate themselves on the pathologies. It’s just a google search once you get your diagnosis.
God chose her to join him through the holy touch.
It sounds like it was her time. I'm surprised she made it to age 71.
It sounds like it was her time. I'm surprised she made it to age 71.
The Darwin is strong with this one.
Darwanism.
Read it as a “spanking resort” at first. Disappointment.
Dumb!
Slapping therapy? What? 🤨
White women and pseudoscience cults... Name a better duo
Okay, how about racist idiots and their Reddit comments?
Racists and sexists pairing in one person?
Why should I feel sorry
Natural selection at work. We need more of that. I have no pity for anyone who is unable to discern between science and fiction.
these people are often mentally ill in some way and aren't fully capable of making safe and informed decisions. same with the child who was also a victim of this nonsense.
You're making assumptions. I see a full grown adult who should be quite capable of handling herself but wasn't. This wasn't a child but an adult. This adult chose to forego using lifesaving medicine. These are the same people who believe 5G is dangerous and chemtrails are a government conspiracy. This is natural selection at work and I have no sympathy - should be one for the Darwin awards if anything.
I would have slapped that b**** for free.
It makes it sound like she was beaten to death, but actually she was diabetic and was convinced by a religious leader to stop taking her insulin.