www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/01/trump-immunity-claim-supreme-court-consequences
What is the fallout if the supreme court grants Trump presidential immunity?
SCOTUSIf they provide exemplary service, the gratuity should be 20-25%.
Geesh, back in my day you could buy a Supreme Court justice for 15%. Tipping culture has gone crazy.
Well, it helps that the machine defaults to a minimum of "Motorcoach".
No tax on tips
Inflation man, judges gotta eat to.
If Trump is elected president again, he can OFFICIALLY seize national parks and reward his lackeys with fiefs.
Its how medieval kings worked.
I feel certain Alito and probably some others are fed up with having to do actual work like the poors, and feel entitled to relax and reap all the rewards and privileges they are 'entitled' to
What is 20-25% of democracy?
Do you tip on the pre-ruling amount of democracy or the post-ruling amount?
No tax on tips! Trump 2024, then forever more! /s
I hate that all the "America will die like Rome" talk looks exactly correct.
Ancient Athens is a much better analogy - with the way people willingly handed over their own autonomy to tyrants. It really was an amazing thing and actually used for centuries afterwards as 'proof' that democracy 'can't work'.
Case in point, Shakespeare's play "Coriolanus"
EDIT: obligatory note: Athenian democracy lasted less than 100 years, US democracy has had a much better track record....ALSO as much as a I love and revere Shakespeare, he was in part in the business of upholding the status quo of whomever was the monarch at the time
60k handbags from maga- like habba got?
Or luxury RVs?
He's too cheap. Probably a round of golf at his Marghleggo, in which he wins by default. And then an expensive brunch, of regular hotel food. Just more expensive. And then more self praise about how he's the best and everyone loves him, and how he's going to put everyone else in jail for imaginary crimes.
One of them is set on the luxury RV
Just dont you dare call it a bus!
Looking at US as a neighbour this just feels sad. How did it ended up in this state? This is just frightening to see.
Russia and the GOP that's how.
Well, all of that could have been avoided by a competent Democratic Party. And voters being even marginally financially literate.
You shouldn’t be downvoted. Dems have played fairly as the opponent abuses them for at least 40 years now. And the Clinton pivot looks like it was a bad long term move although it empowered Dems in the short run.
When Republicans are marching you into a death camp you will find a way to blame the Demmiecrats
Reagan.
And Gingrich
And McConnell. Lately, ESPECIALLY McConnell.
Remember, it was McConnell who prevented Obama from placing SCOTUS picks.
Thanks, and happy Canada day!
Thanks 😊
Money over all. If you have money you make the laws.
People will say it is the GOP or Russia, those two groups take advantage of the anger, but the rot is with people not having enough no matter how hard they work.
There is no guarantee that you will get food, shelter, health, and education. Just one accident and you may be looking at thousands of dollars. Or going into debt.
But that’s from these idiots voting for the GOP and not for their economic interests
The Internet and a failure to assure large swaths of the population are functionally literate in a modern world. Then we told them all to vote.
Thanks, we're going to get better, soon
We keep getting worse, I'd love to see the slightest sign that we're getting better.
Many empires fell due to political corruption
I’m thinking these 6 judges should get some nifty treatment from the CIA since the president has immunity…
If presidents have absolute immunity (which we now know they do), Biden could just order those same justices to be either assassinated or indefinitely imprisoned. This is an extremely dangerous game for them to play when Trump isn't even in power.
They delayed the final result by sending it back. But how can states determine presidential acts (that would be made on a federal level?) wasn’t that why states couldn’t boot him from the ballot? They didn’t have the right decide he was a corrupt vile traitor.
They gave Trump absolute immunity. Let's not beat around the bush and pretend it has exceptions when it doesn't. As for state-level stuff, the supreme court justices are in DC, so he could just order this to be done while they're in DC and bypass all state-level prosecutions. Then, he could just give a federal pardon to all other involved parties.
Biden 100% needs to pack the court and overturn the ruling ASAP. Literally. That's the only way to save this shit.
They rely on the fact that most Democrats try to act somewhat ethically/morally.
ACB price went up with her recent rulings dissent of CT and other MAGA Jesters. She was advertising her price increases as CT did back when he complained about compensation being too low and threatened to retire.
It’s not a bribe if you get it after the fact.
I posted this in another tread but I am incredibly confused by this. Edit: Please see my edit at the end if you have the same questions.
Can someone please explain what I am missing here? Didn't Nixon and Watergate already essentially establish that only official acts taken by a President in the normal execution of the office can or should be considered to have immunity from prosecution?
I legitimately do not see any difference in what the law said and how it was being interpreted vs. what the Supreme Court ruled? Is this some super specific Mandela Effect or I am missing something here? I swear the courts had already been ruling that only "official" actions can be considered to have immunity.
Wasn't the entire argument for prosecuting Trump essentially stating that nobody can reasonably believe a President is acting as the office holder or officer and not the individual if they are suspending elections and killing opponents in broad daylight. That's obviously not a defensible act. This ruling doesn't appear to change that at all.
I assume I am wrong here because of the reactions I am seeing, but I am legitimately confused about how this wasn't already essentially understood to be interpreted the way they just did.
Edit:
I actually just watched an interview one of Trumps attorneys gave and they answered my questions. The attorney is now arguing for overturning Trumps convictions. That isn't surprising but his reasoning is insane.
He is not arguing that Trump is innocent, but that he is only provably guilty using actual evidence based on conversations and tweets that happened while Trump was in the White House. That means he should be immune based on this ruling.
I see the problem now. Even worse is that we are seemingly inching towards implementing Japanese style libel laws at this point. It's defamation because it's true! I am legitimately baffled.
Then Constitutional government is overturned. If the president can do anything he wants with absolute immunity in all things, we no longer have a democratic republic in which the voters choose their representatives through free elections -- only mob rule and a dictatorship.
Dems probably won’t want to be seen as the bad guys and if they lose the election will hand it over to the other guys who won’t hand it back
In view of today's ruling by the Trump Court, granting immunity to Trump, they clearly have no respect for the Constitution or the law... so why should anybody else?
Because they have the surveillance state and will force you to obey, or they will lock you in a cage. You are nothing. You are a product. You are a pawn. You exist as a means, not as an individual. You are the means by which actual people(the corporations) survive.
Yeah... that's what's truly frightening. Goodbye to elected presidents. Hello, Big Brother.
Thats where this is jeading and fast. The democrats so far have been behind at every step of the way. Literally, were being told the repuboican party is in its death rowes but, they are beating the fuck out of the democrats in every concievable way right now. God damn were fucked. And were just the first few ro see it.
Biden is free to have SCOTUS Justices and Trump arrested and imprisoned.
If they give him immunity, it'll probably be limited so that Biden can not benefit without losing votes, and it definitely won't allow for SCOTUS to be touched.
it'll probably be limited
They could pull another Bush v. Gore and have the opinion say something to the effect of "Our consideration is limited to the present circumstances", which some people interpret to mean "this isn't precedent". That would be fun!
At which point Biden should arrest and imprison Trump and the conservative justices, install 6 new members on the Court, and have them rule that every thing he did was perfectly fine.
I'm being facetious, but only just. It's so goddamn infuriating to see the conservatives slowly replacing our democracy with authoritarianism. I feel helpless.
At some point we will have to stand up to it. Otherwise we WILL be helpless.
The president does have the sole ability to declare and individual an "enemy combatant."
This ability could possibly be used to indefinitely incarcerate the conservative court justices while also removing any ability for them to challenge the incarceration in court. So long as Biden is president, that is.
This is what I've found in my short period of time brainstorming this morning.
Narrow rulings like the obstruction for Jan 6 is their game, Trump will get enough to dodge some of his legal problems
This scotus has sent a loud and clear message that precedent no longer matters. There is no settled law. It does not matter if they say “this is limited” or “this establishes precedent”. Their actions have made it meaningless.
He won't though and everyone knows it. I don't think he's ever been tough when dealing with Republicans BS.
Officially of course. Not unofficially. ☝🏽
As if Biden is capable of such a thing
They won't. If they wanted to they wouldn't have saved this for last.
They will baiscally define the existing limits of immunity and then remand to the lower court to sort it out. Bu the time that happens the election will be too close for a trial and it will be up to the voters to ensure Trump receives justice.
They have a habit of narrowing criminal law (when it suits them) based on wacky hypotheticals, so I expect that to factor in somehow for some type of immunity for at least some official acts.
"Only immune if the president who seeks immunity has a last name beginning with T and ending with P," you mean?
This slow motion fascist coup d'etat really started with Bush v Gore, where that's pretty much how it came down.
Our country ended when Mitch McConnell failed to advise and consent on Garland's nomination.
After seeing Garland drag his feet and get all political instead of defending justice, I'm starting to believe it's a good thing he wasn't sent to the SC. He acts like a closet Republican.
It's frankly why Obama nominated him. He thought Garland would sail through and Mitch basically said fuck you, there's no reason for me to compromise at all.
And he was proven right in the end, which is the worst part about the whole debacle.
Dems just sat out the fight thinking they had Hillary in the bag.
He’d have been better on the SC than as AG.
That's a pretty fair comment.
This timeline grows troublesome, but that's certainly where it started.
Biden does a legal name change. Sends seal team six after the conservative justices on the SC.
"Gotta get up earlier in the morning to pull that Malarkey on me Buckos" - President Joe 'Biden' Tyrantstomp
You dog faced pony soldier!
I still didn't understand the point he was trying to get across other than a very select part of that quote.
As if Pony soldiers didn't have a rough time enough already, did he really need to call out the poor dog faced one?
It was slow moving for the Nazis also.
That’s why I hate that these folks are doing what the Nazis did but if you point that out they claim you lost the argument.
But yet Nazis took time to take power and did a lot of the shit we are seeing today to gain power.
And that stands for Trouble!
Biden quickly name changes to Joe Turnip, uno reverse.
Now!!!! Skip, skip, play all your draw cards, then slam that wildie.
Got’em.
The president should have immunity for some official acts, I think that's pretty clear.
If Texas makes it a crime to support the legalization of abortion you don't want the president subject to arrest and incarceration for that.
It's just that overthrowing the government is not the president's job
The president should have immunity for some official acts, I think that's pretty clear.
That's not clear at all. If the President wants to do something illegal, they can either persuade Congress to change the law, or suffer the consequences.
We elect Presidents, not Kings.
It's a very important point.
The whole point of Roe was you cannot be criminalized for conduct that is legal in other states. Also the state is supposed to fuck off they have no business in what you do in another state. The supreme court seems to have forgotten that and creates this shit storm again.
They can be immune while in office, fine
Or immune from State laws for things they do at the federal level. Aka states cannot sue the federal government for damages, that's the immunity you're describing
But yeah if it's not the president's job, they should be aware they face consequences at the end of their term
But personally I'm fine with consequences even if it was part of their job. I heard the idea recently that we should design nuclear weapons systems such that the person pushing the button must give their own life when making that decision. If it's a situation that requires nukes, and hundreds of thousands of deaths, one more death of the politician who says it is needed seems totally fair to me
Making decisions that you know will not affect the person making the decision... Is how we get this supreme court theocracy that we have.
Idk why being close to the election is a reason to put the trial on hold, DOJ should just go ahead with the trial because the defendant is the one who delayed it to the election.
That'll just set the precedent that criminals can run for election to get their trials put on hold.
It won’t be on hold. It’s just not enough time for the trial to take place in its entirety. I’ve heard judgement estimates around the end of November now. So not soon enough for the results to figure into people’s decision at the ballot box.
After the remand, chutkan is going to have to go through additional analysis, whatever scotus prescribes. Additional pre trial decisions. Her analysis and decision will be appealed. Do you really think there will be a trial by November? I find myself doubtful.
Chutkan seems motivated to go forward as rapidly as is reasonable. I think the Justice Department can withdraw charges that run into whatever “limited” immunity the SC insists upon without having to refile. This isn’t the documents case. There is plenty in the charges that was not done pursuant to Trump’s duties as President. This was always a stall. Unless they throw a curve ball, this case should move ahead. Just not on a time line that satisfies curious voters.
I didn't say they would need to re-file, just that chutkan has to put a complicated decision on her docket that's certain to be appealed because it'll be under a brand new guideline.
I’m just laying it out how Ben Wittes has described the situation. I am definitely not an expert. But he has remained confident that the likelihood is that this trial moves forward relatively quickly unless the SC decision is outside expectations.
If trials can be delayed for years in pre-trial shenanigans then it’s always close to an election.
Anyone can chose to ‘run for President’ any time. Up next we’ll have thousands of sketchy 1%-ers running.
Trump loses this fall he just re-files for 2028 and so on.
Well, this aged like milk.
So I agree with your guess of today's ruling. So that means the lower court would then have to define what is and isn't an official action, and then I assume that could get re-appealed back up to SCOTUS?
Not necessarily. The DC Circuit judge has indicated that if a remand comes down that requires the lower court to decide a factual issue regarding scope of presidential duties, she would keep her original trial schedule and have this mini-hearing in September
This is what i expect too. They wont validate the answer directly out of fear of being jailed by their potential future führer - but clarify perhaps what acting in a presidential capacity should be define and boot it back down. Frankly this should have been done by legislature but SCOTUS has a record of legislating from the bench lately.
This aged well
Woops
Uh, they did
They won’t. Cos per the examples Biden could just have Trump bumped off
Well they just did so it turns out your belief in precedent is absolute bullshit
I’m confused as half the replies say you nailed it and the other half says you blew it.
It's mostly reactionaries posting kneejerk comments on Reddit without any critical thinking.
They were right. The court affirmed that the president has absolute immunity in official acts and no immunity for unofficial, remanded to the lower court to determine whether his actions were official or not (DC circuit already ruled that they're not)
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Welp...
You were correct. Do you have the winning Powerball numbers now?
He was not, in fact, correct.
He is not a president anymore..Biden should just throw him in prison without a trial if scotus votes this way.
Biden should have his political rivals dragged before him in shackles (just the one) to make an example of the new rules for dictatorship and put fear in the rest. It’s the point of this exercise
He won’t
If Trump has immunity then Biden should just arrest the 6 conservative justices, get progressive groups to fast tack cases to the Supreme Court -‘d overturn all the recent malarkey.
He won’t
Well now that we have presumptive immunity, Let’s arrest the 6 justices and when the case finally makes its way to the Supreme Court there will only be three justices to decide whether the presumption can be overturned.
The S C is already a joke. They have zero credibility
roberts scrotus is corrupt
Biden has the every GOP Senator and congressman executed without trial as an “official act”.
This isn’t going to stop, it’s going to cycle back and be used against the current president and the next president and the next president after that.
If SCOTUS decides to grant Donald Trump immunity, it’ll be their worst decision ever, completely undermining their ability to fulfill justice.
We'll rise up and revolt! Jk we'll do what we always do - talk about how much it sucks and continue on our daily lives. Politics might get a bit more spicy in the near future though.
Thoughts and prayers
I’m grabbing my torch and pitchfork!… on twitter. That will show them!
The Tree of Liberty is already experiencing extreme drought conditions, and we have already seen violence from the right. If that happens, some unstable people on the left will decide it’s time to water the tree for real and we will enter a very dark period of civil unrest. Though I think it will take another 10 years or so for the pressure to build enough for the lid to blow. A new Trump presidency and project 2025 will accelerate matters as gas on the kindling.
They just did. I m going into hiding now before the best spots are taken
If I have to read "Biden should just murder all the judges if they grant immunity" one more god damn time I am going to throw myself down a well
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RIP in peace, u/NoDadYouShutUp
It would be incredibly funny if Biden pull out a gun a shot Trump during presidential debate, then just shrugged his shoulders and said, "Absolute presidential immunity, I win."
“Has been revoked”
And then transfer the contents of Fort Knox to his personal bank account.
What would you suggest as a similarly absurd scenario that highlights how insane this ruling is?
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At least 6 of the justices are likely to receive some pretty nifty gifts immediately after the decision is announced, you know, as long as it is following the decision and not before!