What are the communities opinions on SI posts? (Please read before voting)

Question

Hello Everyone,

The mods have noticed some trends and would like community feedback on what action to take regarding suicidal/suicidal ideation (SI) posts.

They are a grey area for the sub, they bring a way of relief, but it hurts some users mentally to read and see them too and it triggers others. As Reddit currently stands, there is no way for individual users to hide certain topics from an individual sub (we looked into that and support for addons such as RES broke during Reddit's API changes) There might still be methods we couldn't find, but they are difficult to access for the average user making it unfeasible.

So, we want to ask the community how much of an issue are SI posts? There are always a few loud voices, but that's not necessarily what the entire community wants.

There are a few options we can take with this:

Keeping it the same as it is now.
The same but add NSFW tag to all SI related posts regardless of NSFW content. We would still see the title but this would hide the post content at least.
Regular SI posts can stay around but if a user has already Planned on suicide or is Planning on suicide gets removed/redirected to SuicideWatch sub.
The same as above AND include the NSFW tag on all remaining SI related posts.
Remove ALL suicidal posts and redirect to SuicideWatch sub.

Details on these choices:

To clarify on what Planned + Planning means: anything of the nature of "I am going to x", "Tonight is the night", "As soon as x happens, I plan to commit S" etc.. Counts for both Title and post body. They indicate a plan of action currently or in the future. These get the most reports.
The typical SI posts would be users venting about SI thoughts, feelings, situations, desires but -not- indicating any actual plan of action or intent to harm.
The SuicideWatch sub dedicates their sub to this and so has more expertise in this specific area than our sub currently. Was recommended by one of our previous mods.
If we created a new rule for this we would include other links and resources in the removal too.

Some additional details about how things are done currently:

-We don't allow any SI posts where the user asks for tips/tricks, this is because legally this can make users complicit and its advocating violence (rule 10). Usually users don't post this.

-We don't allow comments that are complicit in OP's SI. Even positive/well intention still is advocating SI. (rule 10) Please report comments like this that you see. Usually users don't make these comments.

-Depending on the emotionally graphic nature of an SI post, currently, we try to balance letting users have their post up for a bit (8 hrs to a day or two) and get some support before removing it. Usually graphic SI posts get many reports. (even with NSFW tag and TW flair). I say "try" to balance because if a post is particularly graphic/there are many reports, we remove the post anyways (uncommon but it happens).

-We do try to keep an eye out for Repeat posters and potential karma farmers. Usually it's not a problem but it can be difficult to discern when it is one. Making too many SI posts within a month span can lead to a temp ban as spam, but we will talk to the poster first and refer them to resources and the SW sub before leading up to that. We do look at a user's situation too. (Copy + pasting posts to spam vs an update to their situation is different for instance)

-Flairs are always needed (Rule 4) on these posts. User's sometimes forget/neglect, and a mod will add the flair on once it's brought to our attention.

-We always recommend our fellow users avoid posts that aren't for them and refrain from interacting. In line with our posting guidelines: (https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/peer2peersupportguide/)

+++ Letting users speak on their experiences is important, but so is protecting members of the community. Please feel free to write a comment here if you have any additional insight or potential solutions we hadn't thought of, and feel free to discuss the topic. +++

View Poll

in CPTSDby HumanWhoSurvived

96%

1mo

HumanWhoSurvived

20d

Thank you to all the people who commented and voted. It's always good to validate these things rather than assume. We're glad and inspired to see the community support for one another.

Based off the comments and the vote tallies, we will implement the new rule of making all SI posts have a nsfw tag. We will try it for a month and see how the community likes it. After a month we will make another post with another poll to see if it stays or reverts back.

**This is only for posts where SI is the main topic of the post.** We won't remove any posts for not having the tag, instead we will add the NSFW tag on if it's brought to our attention. (which is what we usually do for similar posts)

moonrider18

1mo

It is truly ridiculous that Reddit doesn't let users filter out specific tags.

revolution_twelve

1mo

I support any option that keeps the posts in this sub but gives the user some way to filter them out. I don't know how feasible that is. I'm sympathetic to those who are triggered by these posts; I also know I would have died if the post I made in this fashion had been removed before anyone saw it, or if I was redirected to another sub that's not the specific community I wanted to speak to and found comfort in previously.

The people here are by in large, far more emotionally intelligent than those in r/SW and I don't think pushing people there will help if they have made an attempt to be heard. It sort of reinforces that they are unwelcome, this pushing them elsewhere.

Flair posts, nsfw them, leave them up only for a day or two, but don't push people to another community. Please.

Particular_Sale5675

29d

I see it multiple ways, the individual in self danger and their immediate needs.

Balanced with the needs and abilities of others in this community.

One person being in a crisis (planning/ planned) could trigger others into their own crisis. So 1 crisis becomes many by accident. It's not definite, but a risk.

Plus not everyone is equipped with the tools and information and emotions to help others in a crisis situation, but some are. Sometimes people in a crisis need an understanding ear (emotional intelligence), and other times they need professional/ medical help (more "by the book" crisis intervention).

It's complicated. I think each way has pros and cons.

Cass_78

29d

I find options 3-5 problematic.

I agree that posts about specific planning are very questionable, I definitely avoid them, but considering the emotional state the poster is most likely in removing the post might make them feel even more hopeless. Maybe its better to not do that.

Is option 2 not enough for those who get triggered when they interact with those posts? This option means they only have to see the title.

Personally I voted for 1 but 2 is a good compromise imo.

Edit to add: You may have to consider specific rules against triggering titles in case of options 2 or 4.

Cass_78

29d

Option 5 is terrible. Suicidality is an integral part of trauma. Why would you even consider excluding an entire symptom from the discussion?

Its normal to be suicidal under certain abnormal circumstances. Yet for many its extremely difficult to accept this and not blame themselves for having those thoughts or having acted on them.
Excluding the topic of suicidality sends a terrible message to those who struggle with accepting its normality:

You are welcome (on the surface) but dont talk about your worst symptom, thats not welcome here. Hush! Go away!

CaptainFuzzyBootz

29d

It's not as much a we don't want to welcome that here, it's acknowledging that there is only so much a group of strangers on the internet can do to help. It is arguably one of the worst symptoms, and as such, needs to be approached in certain ways to help rather than harm.

Cass_78

29d

Well I dont have a mods perspective, I dont know how many harmful comments are made. I never saw one in those posts, I would have reported it.

As somebody who has 30+ years experience with suicidality and does their best to support people who are currently struggling I would deeply regret a complete exclusion of the entire topic. Its a part of us. Please dont exile it.

Cass_78

29d

Never seen a harmful comment in such posts. Of course I dont have a mods perspective on that, if its happens a lot I can see what the issue is.

As somebody who did struggle with suicidality for 30+ years and who does their best to support people who currently struggle I would deeply regret a complete exclusion. It is a part of us. Exiling it isnt the way.

CaptainFuzzyBootz

29d

It's not just the comments, unfortunately. We generally always have predators lurking and they do, unfortunately, DM posters. Given that the OP is usually in a very vulnerable state, that can get ugly.

Cass_78

29d

Valid. I did not consider DMs. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I appreciate it.

Anonuno999

29d

1 or 2 please. And I say this as someone who does get triggered by the really hopeless sounding posts, but at the same time I think we have a responsibility to not turn people away who are experiencing CPTSD pain and unfortunately SI is a common reaction to that pain. And also "planning" isn't always...like sometimes it's just that you hear people around you saying stuff like "lol this bad grade is making me suicidal" and your mind just goes to the specific methods to distinguish it from that jokey stuff, and who can tell really who might actually do it? You can't. So just, let people be able to reach out for support here even if how they do it can trigger others. The NSFW tag (option 2) will probably help with the trigger aspect.

SadSickSoul

25d

Please don't redirect posts to SW. An automod link, sure, okay. But the amount of places where we can talk about these types of things with folks who are understanding and willing to have a discussion about it are dwindling as subs keep washing their hands of it and telling folks to post in the same two subs, and while those subs have uses, they are mostly people who are shouting their pain at each other. Sometimes that's what you need, but other times you need more thoughtful people who sit with your pain, help you discuss it and generally are more reasonable about it than what SW provides. SW is a lot of folks shouting into the void, and it's getting really, really upsetting that more and more subs are treating it as the dark room folks shove people into so they don't have to deal with it.

It was only a little while ago that I was trying to ask difficult but (I felt) reasonable questions about SI, and multiple question asking subs automatically deleted my post and said, essentially, "we're not dealing with that, go to SW", and I was furious and ashamed and felt invalidated because of it like I was a child sent to time out. I strongly urge you to pick options that don't do that.

paganwolf718

25d

How about a pinned mega thread for suicidal posts? The people who don’t wanna see them don’t have to, but the people who need the support still can seek it out from people who are knowledgeable in cPTSD.

I absolutely don’t think we should be directing people to the suicide watch subreddit as it’s been plagued with pro suicide content for a long time now.

Ill_be_myself

A NSFW spoiler with a flair seems appropriate to easily avoid seeing the meat of such a post while scrolling.

Option 3 there seems like a great way to make someone more likely to actually kill themself so I don't recommend it.

RelaxedNeurosis

1mo

Hmm. I am totally new here - so i'm just grasping what the threads usually look like, etc.
I guess i'm curious what the purpose of an SI post might be* - before I could understand what is best course. As far as i'm concerned, I'd like to have a clear indication before i see some types of material (think selfies of self mutilation, and other / different triggering stuff).

* what are the expected responses from the community? A chat - a call? for others to relate/sympathize - de escalate? just to vent and briefly exist on the web and be shredded in the thread-rot? ?

i really DO like that first day here, i see some of the concerns coming up, with a mature / collective discourse, very encouraging. Whatever the decision, keep up the good work y'all.

CaptainFuzzyBootz

1mo

Any posting of pictures of gore or self harm are absolutely not permitted currently and going forward - that would never be something we would allow.

revolution_twelve

I know the vote has come to a conclusion, and I want to thank the mods and the community for coming to this option. This week's post by u/final-ex1t is exactly why I said what I did in my other comment on this poll. They shared their post in 3 other communities. It was deleted in two of them, and in the last one, it received almost no attention at all. Some upvotes, one supporting comment, and another comment basically telling them the post would get removed, why bother.

This sub was the only place where they were seen and heard. Even if they are no longer with us, if there was a chance that they could have stayed, it would not have come to pass in any other community.

I empathize with those who are triggered by posts like these, and I wish there was more that we could do to make it so these posts could both be allowed to be up but more hidden by those effected. But no matter what, the best decision a community can make is to make a space more safe for as many people as possible, to let as many people as possible be heard instead of pushing them away somewhere else. The message that always says, even when it's just "recommended", is "we don't care about you." In every community that does this. The message is the same.

We who have CPTSD should understand better than anyone what it's like to be pushed away, deemed as unfit, not good enough, inappropriate. I thank the mods and the community majority for allowing SI posts with as many tags and hiding as Reddit allows.

truecampbell

I would choose option 1. AND I just realized, the voting is closed. Never mind. Keep up the great work!

WhoIsTheBoogeyman

they/them

1mo

I haven't been around much, lately, due to life things, but I would prefer to see all planned/planning SI posts immediately redirected to suicidewatch.

I think that perhaps all SI posts should be redirected there, as they can also give support for people who are not actively planning. I do understand that people need a place to vent, but I think that other sub is a better option than this one, where we're all needing to protect ourselves from emotional harm.

I feel for people who are going through SI, and I have at times felt that way, too, but the reality is that the suicide watch sub is objectively the best sub to support people going through this. We are not equipped to deal well with this as a community. It's more fair to both the person suffering from SI and to the community at large to redirect such posts to people who can really help.

fluffywaggin

Y'all know suicide can be socially contagious, right?

HumanWhoSurvived

Specifically, it's been noted when suicidal death is normalized in media, especially from high status individuals. Or when others we know close to us commit suicide.

Everyone posting here is, to our knowledge, still alive. They still have a chance to receive encouragement and support. The community by and large is good at supporting each other from what we've seen. So to counter that fact that suicide is socially contagious, We can also say the fact that suicidal people receiving support greatly decreases their desire for suicide. That has been noted -even by members here. We don't have a statistics tracker for this but this sub has no doubt helped many to continue to live.

If you see any comments that are supporting, encouraging, glorifying, advocating -for- suicide, then please report those comments, it falls under rule 10. Even if they are pretending to be "supportive" or "positive". They aren't common but occasionally bad actors do pop up.

Our stance here is we want people to live and have a chance to heal.

hourlyslugger

Reddit Enhancement Suite got updated to work with Reddit's new API as of the April 23/24 2024 release.

Mindless-Ostrich-882

19h

If a posting saves just 1 life it is worth it!!