MAJOR FINAL BOSS SPOILERS!!! Don't these images look similar? Especially the hair.
SpoilerSpoilersThis is on the level of realizing that the shadows cast by the scadutree are 100% match for the thingys hanging over marikas bed in the capital...
Wat
Take a look at marikas bed before morgot/godfrey arena. Then look at the shadows of the scudatree. They are literally 100% match, just opposite colors.
is the DLC some sort of alternate reality?
It’s the middle of the map. That area has been suppressed/hidden by Marika because that’s her hometown region and it’s also where she suppressed all death that she removed from the Elden Ring when she ascended to godhood.
It wasn't suppressed when she ascended to godhood. It happened when she sealed destined death.
Ah, after godhood then - yeah that makes sense because Messmer’s massacre was well after.
Sort of. Sort of underworld kinda place. Also has Marikas original home and shit.
Isn't the actual area the very middle of the elden ring map (where the cloud is?)
There is a tower in SOTE which keeps the land of shadow hidden from the rest.
Things would end up on the shores of the Shadow lands I remember reading somewhere.
Dlc is hidden in the middle of the base game
They also match the draping over the grace at the Round Table Hold...
Also known as: religion-like obsession with meaningless nonsense. "I saw Jesus's face in my spaghetti-o's."
Going to let my skeptical half speak since I agree with you.
Big difference is that Miquella doesn't have any part of the Elden Ring, so even if he becomes a god that aspect is just missing entirely. Also I feel like if it was intended to represent him, the arc at the top would be concave down similar to the charm he can place in the final battle.
That is, unless, the original is supposed to reflect Marika in her original godhood, but I still don't think we ever saw her with that much hair.
I think the similarities is suppose to be symbolic. The depiction of the Elden Ring in the first pic is when it was new and untampered with. Miquella is a brand new type of god that exists outside of the Elden Ring lineage. He even destroyed his great rune. That’s my theory.
If she didn't have it braided in most images it'd probably be that poofy.
Good points. One thing perhaps of relevance: I assume that Miquella's single curved arm is meant to evoke his Great Rune (the shape that all of the Miquella's Crosses are in, a left-facing crescent). So there IS a reference to a rune in Miquella's pose.
Impossible. Miquella literally dropped his rune at the feet of the scadu tree. He doesn't have it anymore.
Why doesnt he? He has a great rune tho he got rid of it iirc
Right, he had a great rune. By the time we see him he has already gotten rid of it. Also he only ever had a single shard of it as opposed to the multitude we see in the image of the past elden ring.
Ah yeah i understand what you first meant better now.
Tbf yeah i dont necessarily mean that i believe that the old elden ring is what Miquella has essentially achiveved, tho it could be symbolic that he would have achieved something similar
The whole point of his journey is to disassociate himself from his empyrian lineage and anything that has to do with the GW. He wants to usher an age that isn't dependent on the Elden Ring and the GW.
I mean he does have a great rune, you just don't get it for defeating him
Because by the time we see him in this image he has already shattered and discarded it.
Isn't that what happened as you approach the Shadow tower and get the message about something being shattered and a charm broken? Afterwards, all of those seeking Miquella are free of hia influenece and make their own decisions.
Yeah, he shatters his rune then discards it and you can find the remaining bits from the sunflower.
The teleporter that takes you to Mohwyn is guarded by an albinauric who uses Miquella's spells
WAIT REALLY? I’ve only ever gone through Vare to get there. Where is the teleporter??
Western end of consecrated snowfield
Most of the snowfield albinauric use that spell, the ones near the minor erdtree also use It
I gotta check this out
What spell?
Ring of light
I think you're cooking something here
Could be a theory, could be meth.
Radahn, we gotta cook!
Also notice how the spiral portion in the middle of the Farum Azula Elden Ring is similar to the symbol of the Spiral incantations .
You mean the tornado?
Also I might be pushing it but doesn't the map look like the nameless king?
bro aint coking shit. he posted a picture of the primordial elden ring that existed during the dragon times and like a pic of miquella that like maybe lets you draw more crucible ties but like that is literally nothing. bro isnt cooking he microwaving at best
Oh so is that gate the thing we saw Marika standing in in the trailer?
Yes, just dried out and grey after Messmer set everything ablaze
Do we know exactly what the gate is and what she did there?
It’s called gate of divinity I believe and I also believe it’s where marika became a god, same as miquella
But if Marika did ascend here as a God, who was her consort? I think Godfrey was far from being a Lord at the time. Is it possibile that it was Radagon already? Even if chronologically he became Lord After Godfrey?
Godfrey, most likely. "First Elden Lord" and all
there is some relation to stormveil,godfrey, the 'storm'. and belurat and the hornsents. so it wouldn't be that weird if godfrey is relevant to the start of everything.
after all, the tree started mid war against the giants and the king of the storm, presumably placidusax but im not so sure about that since his remembrance says that he was waiting for his god. but anyways my point is that hoarah lux could possibly be Elden lord because he was the actual king of the lands between, and the childs born from marika and him are cursed with the crucible horns things.
The fact is, even if it’s not mentioned, I think Messmer took part in the war of the giants. The giants corpses are impaled by spears who looks almost identical to Messmer’s. But Messmer’s red hair and his curse (probably caused for being the son of the same entity) implies that Radagon is his father, so Messmer is probably even older than the first demigod Godwyn
i don't think is older than godwyn because a contradiction that big would have more proof. but def the first radagon child. i still don't understand what exactly is radagon tho, he is definitely related to giants and think opposite of marika somehow but idk
But surely he is older than the Omen twins though. So when exactly Messmer was born? And why Marika had a son with Radagon before (or during) the time Godfrey was the Elden Lord
However, I think that Radagon is to Marika what Radahn was going to be for Miquella. He was her promised consort to become a goddess, then because of the divine gate ritual they merged into one entity. I believe that Messmer was born after this event, since he still have a curse upon him due to being the son of a single entity, but before Godfrey’s ascension to Elden Lord
In the trailer it looks .. fleshy ..
Since it's seemingly where marika became a God it was probably newly built and is now ashy due to Messmer's crusade
From the way it looks like I assume it was made by fusing shaman flesh as well, like the jars.
Somehow you can use it to ascend to a god.
I wonder if opening the gate requires some sort of mass human sacrifice akin to the Philosopher Stone in Fullmetal Alchemist and the Truth gate itself. Maybe Marika used the slaughtering of her people to ascend to godhood and avenge them
I certainly think so; there's alot of references to Alchemy - the mass sacrifices to obtain godhood - the Rebis and Radagon - Marika "successfully" creating "gold" incantations, which is like the endgoal for Alchemy
Yeah I've thought that but I'm also indecisive between that being how it actually works vs the hornsent just being delusional and the ascension actually happening through other means since the hornsent never managed to do it themselves.
If you look at the tower it's somehow made of people. There is no way there were enough of her people alone to make what they made. The hornsent must have just been genociding people all the time.
You can even see hornsent in there, go look around. Tons of people with horns in the arena on the ground
Yea I have to imagine the spire was their grand project and everyone "contributed." It is a melding of life force in the shape of an ascending spiral. Exactly what the crucible is.
Someone commented that the divine gate was built to basically tap into the crucible, like it is a current and essential they built a radio to connect to its signal
I absolutely agree and I think as part of that reverence they specifically did not use it. Their culture compelled them to push their divine rituals as far as they could possibly go but their faith kept them from the blasphemy of trying to become a god. Marika, I believe, used it and that is the betrayal they talk about. Her betrayal to use it and the betrayal of their faith.
I speculate it mimics the power of the crucible due to all the shaman used to make it
It's a gateway that makes you a god. The hornsent made it. My theory is the betrayal that's referenced is that she actually used it. Hornsent seem to very spiritual which is why they created it but I think that also meant it was sacrilege actually use it and make yourself a god. She actually did it and I think that caused the shaman massacres.
If I understand correctly thats where an empyrian acends to godhood.
I like the cooking here, though I just noticed the spiral at the center of the old Elden Ring (and the branches curves that resemble the curved horns).
Oh my god wait there IS a spiral there
Spiral is the symbol of the crucible which is where the erdtree came from.
the spiral can be the crucible but with this little theory we can also think about how Mohg and Radahns body and soul are intertwined
The thing at the top of the first image looks like the symbol that appears above your head when miquella grabs you.
OP, you're definitely on to something
It appears when miquella invokes serious power imo. You get the same thing when you cast his 72 faith incant
The "thing at the top" is a rune which appears in every single rendition of the Elden Ring we have. It's nothing exclusive to Miquella.
You sure it's not miquella's great rune?
This is Miquella's Great Rune , which he shattered and abandoned.
As I said before, the thing at the top of the Farum Azula Elden Ring is found in all instances of the Elden Ring we have, and is particularly associated with Marika, being in both of her seals, and the fact that she is constantly represented doing a pose which imitates that rune, and is also crucified in a similar manner.
Also, this is what Miquella's post-godhood symbol looks like , which is what appears above your head when Radahn grabs you, and references the Circlet of Light which Miquella wears and you get after the battle.
interesting. i definitely think that marika's rune is meant to echo the top of the divine gate. didn't connect the hair though, lol.
Amazing catch wtf. Minus Miq's third arm, it's absolutely spot on geometry-wise.
You might be onto something... Also the top part of
What is the first image?
The symbol in malikeths boss room. I think it's an older version of the elden ring during ancient times like when placidusax was elden lord but idk. Hopefully someone can clarify.
This theory is largely supported through visual evidence in the world. We can see multiple other versions of Elden Ring throughout the game: in seals, on tiles in the roads, and here. There's also a different version of the Elden Ring pre-Radagon and post-Radagon. I doubt it's linked to Miquella
Tarnished Archaeologist (youtube) articulates this theory far better than I could, and that channel is where I learned about how crazy detailed this stuff is in the world
I believe that the shape of the normal elden ring is just marika's rune, if any other demigod, lets say morgott became the god, the elden ring will take his rune's shape
Marika's rune is most likely the very top of the Elden Ring, which matches the marking on her Scarseal, as well as Messmer's eye
Each of the great runes in the game can be fitted into the Elden Ring we see on the poster
A better theory that's supported by evidence in game is that the Elden Ring is reshaped depending on who is God or Lord. This we can see with the vertically and horizontally symmetrical Elden Ring in the road tiles in Liurnia and Limgrave, the one in the game poster and title screen, and the image in OP's post in this thread
We also know that runes can be removed from the Elden Ring, which each demigod holds and Maliketh with the rune of death
Yes. this is pretty much confirmed because the symbol of the cross-like top of the elden ring is shown everywhere in relation to Marika. Her soreseal, the actual crosses (including the rune-cross she's nailed to) and in the most recent iterations both
Except morgott’s rune is part of the elden ring we most know.
Im not sure how what you said would work given this
I think it is a depiction of the Elden Ring during Placidusax’s rule.
The ancient Elden Ring from Farum Azula presumably during the reign of Placidusax.
Oh???
Torrent is the outer god confirmed
Bro miquella has more than two arms I never noticed that
Yep, because he is an empyrean
Malenia is also one but only has two arms and Ranni's corpse has only two arms. The only other "people" we see with multiple arms are puppets.
You are on to something. Miquella, well, could be a puppet. He abandoned so many things.
Similar to Ranni, does this also imply that Ranni went through the Gate of Divinity after we summon her post final fight?
Ah good points, thanks for the info
One of the biggest theme of the dlc is everything coming full circle. Miyazaki said that Miquella is completing the circle of Elden Ring (that being the ascension of Godhood seemingly being a cyclical thing).
but isn't becoming elden lord basically a greater will/ 2 fingers deal? we as tarnished are guided by grace of gold, so when we defeat radagon and elden beast, even if Marika is just a 'shell' we are making what she intended
Truly the elden ring was just malenia's brother who needed a haircut all along.
I didn’t even think of that, it kinda looks like hair
Should it also be pointed out that there is a statue of what could be Miquella with wolves too?
Too bad I am unable to add the screenshot now. You are right there is a statue of what it looks like, either younger Marika or Miquella. I would lean towards Marika. But if it is not, than it is definitely referencing an Empyrean and the "Shadows" that watch and protect them. Could be a concept like "Shadows always accompany the Empyreans". Or it could just be something Malekith made in his free time there.
yeah i think it's miquella since i relate her to torrent because of the image when dlc was revealed. ranni gives you the wolfs summon because you can summon torrent. as of why is miquella represented there i think is because shadows only follow the greater will, as we see with blaidd trying to stop ranni's plans.
maybe Marika shattered the elden ring because she knew that miquella was able to break the cycle and keep the other outer gods away from their empyrean childs.
maybe St. Trina is actually marika's mother since the name sounds like holy trinity. sanctus trinitas, and that's why she's there even so farum azula is a gazillion years old, we gotta remember we get a torch that represents st trina as an adult. we also see unalloyed gold, and marika needed to be a god to make gold. we got the talisman that has two swordmen and the blue dancing thingy that might represent an adult miquella teaching malenia how to use the sword. sure we have spells that says specifically teached from radagon to miquella but that doesn't contradict the theory because we don't know what exactly wad radagon before and his relation to Giants. maybe miquella manipulated everything to create radahn, a perfect specimen idk haven't finished the dlc lol im just yapping... or perhaps cookin?
Also, does Miquella have four arms?
Yeah. He gains extra arms in his god mode.
They seem to be two actual arms and two ethereal arms
Okay hold on bro might be cooking
Pretty sure it's evoking Godfrey and Serosh, since Radahn always admired him, but it could be doing both at the same time, nice catch!
Godfrey and Serosh immediately came to mind for me too, especially coming right after a fight with a blabbering human NPC. The DLC was a mirror to the base game in a lot of ways. At the same time it could've been a nod to the princes of DS3.
it came to mind for me to but also that godfrey rips serosh apart and then ubers into hourax loux so...what if radhan rips miquella....
Heisenberg, ser
Please cook more of that lore crack
See I think that art more closely resembles like a "pure" version of whatever the fuck Godfrey became, like a twisted mirror version.
Am I colorblind, or is the color hue of the memory orb after you defeat him suspiciously similar to the very color of the speck of grace that revived us in the intro cutscene? The standard grace color is a more traditional gold, Miquella's hue is always a whiter, lighter shade of gold. The intro cutscene looks more like Miquella's to me.
If Marika bet it all on Godfrey, I feel like Miquella bet it all on us, the only difference being that Marika expected to be with Godfrey til the end, whilst Miquella always planned on throwing us away once we stopped being useful.
Come to think of it, why didn't DLC bosses drop Great Runes?
You can find what's left of Miquella's rune and use it in the final boss fight to take away the charming effect you get from the grab and asmr attack in phase 2.
Great runes come from the shattering which happened after the shadow place was hidden ( I think )
yes, it seems that way. Marika sealed Messmer and everyone else inside after the war against the Hornsent was over and the Black Knights found out about Messmer's serpent and rebelled
I think this happened in Leyndell so it would've had to have been before the Shattering
the timeline is a bit weird now since we know Radahn and Messmer were close friends, and Radahn knew gravity magic by then, so that means Rennala and Radagon were already married, and their kids had clearly been grown for quite some time. plus all the Messmer stuff was very early on in Marika's rise to power
edit: actually, I'm not sure if Marika sealed Messmer after the Black Knights rebelled, that might've happened after the fact. she may have sealed him due to his flames and their potential to burn the Erdtree
Only those who have them drop them. The demigods on the…surface? We’re each bestowed great runes. Messmer and the like never had great runes (as far as we know).
As for Miquella’s? Well, he may have already dropped it somewhere else.
He destroyed his rune, we got message about it in DLC.
because the Realm of Shadow wasn't part of The Shattering, Marika sealed Messmer and concealed the region long before that, from what I can tell
Great Runes only drop from the Demigods in the main game because they scavenged and took them from the Elden Ring when Marika shattered it
Messmer never participated in the Shattering, so there's no reason for him to have one. and Miquella's Great Rune was discarded and seemingly broken
you can get it from the Scadutree Avatar but it's not an actual Great Rune item
Aww delete this, you guys had me sold that it was a golden hippo until I finally got there.
There is a similiarity but... what would be the implication...?
The first is a depiction of the Elden Ring in an ancient era, probably during the Age of Placidusax's God, the second is just Miquella's incredibly long hairs serving as "cape" for Radahn as former clunges to his back.
Yeah, they look similiar, but apart from that there isn't anything else significantly going on...
Clunges, you say?
Good catch.
Imma need someone that isn't tech illiterate like me to kinda overly the two pics
That's a good observation, it does seem like it could be intentional. I also think miquellas arm looks like the shape of his great rune (or what's left of it). It was my first thought when I reached phase 2, it just seems an incredibly specific arm position.
We can go deeper. Farum Azula has been hit with gravity magic, we can tell because of all the stuff floating everywhere. The building with this image has been cracked open, but notice how the floor looks fine, it's everything on the outside which is wrecked. Maybe Radahn wrecked Farum Azula.
Ruin Greatsword implies Farum Azula was hit by a meteorite.
I know but...Radahn does summon some. And he does kinda become one sometimes.
True, but they're also just... falling to the Lands Between all the time. Falling Star Beasts, Alabaster & Onyx Lords, etc.
No it far predated him
"We were witnessing the birth of a god, and the mending of the Elden Ring"-ass detail
The top even looks like a circlet!
I like how the stones in the back look like angel wings
It looks like he is mimicking his own greatrune with his arm
just noticed how the arm thing miquellas doing reminds me of what the godskin duo do to summon the other
Damn you are right, you might be onto smth bro
Also looks like Miquella’s needle going down the middle.
Something I noticed when fighting phase 2 is that he’s kinda reminiscent of how phase 1 Godfrey looks like. Which makes sense because he idolized Godfrey. He also uses Godfrey’s signature stomp technique making him and the crucible knights the only characters capable of performing Godfrey’s stomp (aside from Godfrey himself obviously)
Makes me wonder, did anyone know about Godfrey’s identity as hoarah loux?
I saw someone make a similar observation but ill be honest I doubt it
I think it's sort of symbolic about how he's repeating the mistakes of the old order
Post Radahn fight was such a letdown, Miquella just say the most random generic things and boom DLC done, where tf are even the credit scenes or some sort of explanation of why Radahn is alive and marrying a dude?
Where is the first picture from? What's the connection I didn't understand sorry!!
The very first thing I thought when I saw that cutscene was that the hair purposefully resembles roots. Because I knew his hair wasn't that long before.
Farum Azula exists in the future, right? Maybe it’s a version of history where Miquella ascended without contention.
Wow these actually do! The door of divinity even has the shape at the top of the rune in the first pic! Definitely from did that on purpose!
This made me realise Marika’s crucifix is echoed in the space within the divine gate…
I think it's just a coincidence. I believe this would be the Elden Ring symbol during the Age of Dragons. The Age of Compassion of Miquella does not uses the Elden Ring as it's symbol, but rather the Circlet of Light
You're reaching.
That's a depiction of the Elden Ring during the time in which Placidusax was Elden Lord, so the runes in it are obviously different from those in the Elden Ring during Marika's reign.
Miquella just has long hair.
I mean vaguely.
Hmm you have got something there.. previously according to the community lore experts thats symbol of the crucible or Erdtree root may be
No
This is some serious cooking. Definitely something to dive deeper into. Also just now realizing his hand above is in the same position the hand is in sticking out of the cocoon before you enter Mohgs fight.
That twink ass bitch.
The DLC was all in Miquella's mind. Why would touching his hand transport you somewhere else in the lands between? This is no different than the Painted World of Ariamis and Ariandel.
Everything was in Miquella's mind. In the Dream Realm. I mean St. Trina is Miquella's alternate form in the dream realm so how does St. Trina have a physical body in SotE? It's because it isn't the real world. It also explains why the Scadutree Fragments only empower you in the DLC area and not in the lands between.
After clearing the DLC if you go back to Mogh's arena, Miquella is still there with the egg.
Sick catch. I think the positioning of the arc above definitely implies it isn’t a coincidence.
Pattern recognition go crazy there buddy
Part of me is skeptical, but part of me thinks this is an absolutely genius observation. I like the second part better. Well done!