AITAH for excluding my sil from family gatherings because she has children

 She said her husband can’t watch them alone.... and why not why can he not do what so many other fathers do on a regular basis...

I can’t help but wonder what kind of zoo OP’s husband must have grown up in that 3/4 of them have an aversion to children and one is having kids on an annual basis. Something is really off. I’m wondering if Alice had to be caretaker to her siblings and that’s why they don’t think of her as a peer.

Why can her husband not watch them alone? Is he that incompetent? If she never talks to anyone but kids, she needs to take steps to get out and away from the from time to time. She needs to tell her husband to step up and parent his kids while she get out for awhile.

I need to know what kinda abuse those parents gave to have one daughter who had endless kids and one who thinks none should ever exist?

“Family gatherings?” Maybe consider renaming?

She said her husband can’t watch them alone

Whaaaaaaaat?

What a shitty fucking family.

YTA.

Normally I'm on the side of "don't bring kids to a "no kid event" but this seems different.

It's deliberate continuous exclusion without any middle ground. BY THE ENTIRE FAMILY.

Therefore, I think OP and the family is are a bunch of AH in this situation. There is really no effort at all.

There should be some middle ground. Some minimal effort from the family.

Of course kids shouldn't always come to adult gatherings, but always excluding sister and never picking ANY locations or activities she can participate in really sucks as "a family".

Basically the family is ganging up to exclude this Mom, because they look down on her and don't like her lifestyle choices. It sounds like their version of "we told you so".

To me this is not far different from always excluding a gay partner from family gatherings because of "lifestyle choice" or not fitting in. Or excluding the working class family because they don't have PHD's and conversation isn't as great. Replace kids with money, or education; or sexual preference, culture or anything else and it shows you who they really are. The family is virtue signaling to the Mom - she's worse than the rest of them.

With all this said: The dad should be able to care for kids for a day. It's not rocket surgery, he can step up occasionally.

But Dad should also be able to attend! Is it impossible to get a sitter for half a day? Is money the issue? Could the group pitch in a little money, if finances are an issue? But they won't. They want her excluded.

People who will spend $20 or $40 or $50 on a bottle of wine, or cheese plate to bring to their adult "party" probably won't toss in $10 for a baby sitter so their sister can attend.

The mom and dad in this story probably just need to find real friends (and possibly better people) to hang out with. This seems like a lost cause.

You guys are awful. I say that as someone who’s child free as well.

The whole “You chose this lifestyle” is just despicable behavior on your part and her siblings’ part.

Pretty sure she knew what she was getting into kid wise. But I’m pretty sure she didn’t expect her siblings and husband to just leave her to drown.

Every single one of you is TA except SIL and the kids.

Her husb- I mean, roommate needs to step up and you guys need to not be such AHs.

YTA. Your “family” sounds like a bunch of insufferable boors.

So being child free and not wanting to be around misbehaving children is not wrong.

Being legit antinatalist is disgusting. It’s a belief that no more babies should be born ever and we should all die as a species. And some people just use that as a blanket to hate babies and children, which we all know that hating a specific group of people that cannot help being that way(age, race, sexual orientation) for no reason is bigotry.

Does the family ever have gatherings where her children are welcome? I get having childless hangouts that’s fine but does anybody ever plan anything like a family BBQ where the kids can come.

Never mind I got my answer by reading your comments. It’s pretty shitty that you all have pretty much shunned Alice and her children. You all are the stereotype child free people are trying to get away from. Your husband and his siblings hate kids so much that they dump their sister. They have no desire to have any relationship with their nieces or nephews ever. YTA.

This whole post sounds fake. If it’s real, you all suck.

Question: Does the sister plan/host any family functions/gatherings?

Not being able to stomach nephews and nieces for a couple of hours is kind of fucked up. They usually have to leave early to get young ones down for naps too.

YTA - If it's a family gathering, invite the family, and let them deal with their own issues like adults ought to do.

The kids will grow and become more behaved. It'd be ridiculous to drive wedges between family members because people aren't mature enough to acknowledge that it's a temporary issue.

If Alice feels excluded, why isn’t she inviting the whole set of siblings and partners to her place?

ESH

This sounds like just an awful family all around

The father of the million kids is an easy one, that he can't look after his own kids for a bit

The kids sound awful in general, which is also partly on both parents

The mother of the kids for not either putting her foot down with husband to watch the kids, or even just get a babysitter. Like deal with your shit and choose one of the simple solutions

You and the rest of the family sound awful for NEVER spending time with the parents and kids and going as far as simply hating all kids (which is abhorrent on its own). These are your (all of you) nieces and nephews, not to mention the parents

You all also suck (including the mother) for not even considering the father as family or even in the discussions

I get wanting "adult" times and gatherings, and those parents need to figure those days out...but you never have any inclusive days for everyone. That's disgusting

Overall an awful "family" all around, and you all suck immensely

Bro y’all suck. This is post # what talking about how hated kids in families are.

It doesn't sound like this has anything to do with the kids at all. You guys hate her because she doesn't subscribe to your lifestyle. Offering the "out" of her coming without the kids was just to make yourself seem like the good guy. She's reaching out and basically telling you that she's in a terrible place mentally, and y'all are doing nothing but rubbing it in her face with your social media posts. Obviously you guys aren't obligated to interact with her or her kids, but "no obligation" doesn't make you any less of an asshole for refusing to have anything to do with her at all. Y'all are shitty people

I can't imagine wanting to take my children somewhere they are not wanted and outright despised. The kids know how the others feel about them.

NMI: This may get downvoted to oblivion but it needs to be said. So let me get my facts straight, your entire family has isolated this sister simply because she has kids. Everyone even her parents?Is your entire families end goal to never see these children again? Or is it just on occasion that you want to indulge in adult conversation and adult activities. Because there’s a big difference. I am 26F and I have two kids while my entire family is childfree. They on occasion get together to have drinks and do adult things. I don’t take offense even though I get FOMO. I occasionally will join and have my husband stay back with the kids. But if my kids aunts and uncles just completely isolated me and my family simply bc I have kids. I would be absolutely crushed and depressed too. And to also see it on social media that you get together and don’t invite her…ouch. But if every family get together is one where my kids aren’t welcome. It just seems so cruel to me. I get that you guys hate kids and don’t want to be around them but come on… do a few family friendly ones every so often so they feel involved. Again, I realize this will be downvoted to oblivion but there needs to be some compromise here. You can’t just cut her out entirely because she has kids.

ESH no reason the husband can’t watch them but throw her a bone and go somewhere with them occasionally- the park, a museum, whatever- so your stuff is safe at home and she feels included

ETA if for no other reason the husband sounds like an ass so make sure she’s ok

In my opinion she has a right to be angry at her siblings. It's pretty weird to flat out refuse to see ones nieces and nephews. But she should leave you out of it.

Everyone sucks here, except OP who's just caught in the middle of it all.

This whole family sounds fucking awful. They all hate kids except for the one with 5 kids.... Like Jesus, you don't have to like kids to not be a piece of shit aunt or uncle.

Also, Alice could always plan a get-together, and then if yall don't go due to the kids, then yes, you are an asshole.

But, your house is your rules. NTA, but def not someone I'd wanna hang out with.

you lot kind of suck tbh

ESH - it's wild that all of these adults are so shitty and toxic that they don't even let their nieces and nephews visit them. Everyone but Alice and her poor kids are a piece of work.

Horrible horrible people.

ESH and kind of YTA - Really your husband is the one who should be handling this so you're not wrong there but it's pretty wild to me that your husband and his siblings exclude one sibling because she has children. 

Unless her kids are poorly behaved, she does nothing to address it after your husband has brought it to her attention and communicated boundaries to her which she has violated THEN that would be understandable and yeah cut her off.

And I could understand the occasional childfree event but it sounds like y'all handled it really poorly and evey event is expected to be child-free. Ditching events if she and her family are there, not inviting her to events and then posting it on social media...that almost sounds like highschool drama and immature. 

Yes she chose to have children. But I don't understand why that means she should have expected her family to cut her off unless she acts like she's child-free. Babysitting is expensive and shouldn't always be expected. Just because you're child-free, doesn't mean you have a right to discriminate against kids or people who have them. We were all kids once and if you want your services, pension and other benefits to be going after you retire, you better hope people still continue to have them. 

And I really hope all my friends who are child-free don't cut me off once I start my family like you guys have done to your SIL. 

It’s actually kind of heartbreaking to read. You all are family and you are excluding her. Do you not consider her husband your family too? Even the kids? Using the word “hate” is really strong to talk about children. I mean you were once all children too. I understand they do not behave, so there would definitely have to be boundaries in place. My kids are very well behaved. Each to his or her own, but sounds very sad. NTA I guess, but I feel lucky I have siblings that care about myself, husband and kids.

Everyone in this family sucks entirely, with maybe the exception of Alice but holy fuck

So tell me again why a man is completely fine with creating 5 other humans, but CAN’T WATCH THEM? I feel like this got really glossed over and isn’t more an issue.

I hate how almost every single person in here seemed to forget that sil's husband has to provide for a 7 person home by himself. He's probably working all day every day, and yall are talking like he's some deadbeat because he doesn't want to come home and watch 5 kids by himself.

Kinda yta. You guys are all kinda being jerks. It’s totally true that you have all made the choices that you want but you are intentionally excluding her from “family “ activities because of her choice. I totally see your point and I do feel like a compromise can be made that doesn’t mean she can only see you if she doesn’t have her kids with her.

Fwiw, I have a close friend with 4 children ranging in age from 12-years to 1-year-old. I have two children ages 12 and 9. Our 12-year Olds are best friends.

Even with our kids that are friends, I no longer invite her over to my house (sleepovers are okay for the friends). My friend is a single parent and has very little control over them all, and I don't want to have to deal with all the clean up and replace all the food her kids help themselves to when they come over.

If I want to see my friend, I go to her house so she doesn't feel left out, or we arrange to go out and do something together as a family group.

I think there's a place for compassionate compromise, but it's really up to the siblings to figure it out. It sounds like the father is useless and the mother is feeling isolated.

Would it be impossible to go visit her once in a while, bring a cupcake for the mother and let her remember what it feels like to be something besides a mother to 5 children and one man-baby?

You all are AH’s. You are isolating her. But she can get a babysitter so she and her husband can socialize

Yeah you’re all shitheels

Kind of an asshole move towards family imo.

Y’all are a bunch of bitches. I’m childfree but having this kind of beef with little kids is INSANE

YTA

From the post alone, I was going to say N T A but the more comments I read from you it changed cause this isn’t just about not getting invited to game night like you are making it sound.

This woman is literally 1 month postpartum and depressed and overwhelmed and her whole family not only wont let her come anywhere if she needs to bring kids they also refuse to go to her house cause she is overwhelmed and the house is dirty!? And then block her for continuing to reach out for help.

YTA for the framing of this post and burying the lede of how heartless you all actually are.

You know you don’t have to post your gatherings that she’s not invited to on social media for her to see, right?

I wonder if her husband also can’t watch the kids because he’s working. If he is the sole breadwinner and has to support a 7 person household he may be only able to spend a few hours with the family before he has to sleep or go to work. So depending on when these family gatherings are happening he may be gone/asleep and unable to watch them. The fact that all 3 siblings are excluding her just because she has kids makes them all AHs. They haven’t even tried to accommodate her. They are choosing to do this as punishment for the kids just because they don’t like them. 

Honestly, you and your husband’s childless siblings sound like the absolute worst kind of elitist, know-it-all snobs, Alice should be counting her blessings that she doesn’t have to spend time with you all.

What a shitty family for Alice to be stuck in. If family is even the right word for whatever you guys have going on. Sorry Alice, we've decided our family stops after this generation.

This is so sad. And the fact that op just doesn't care is scary. There is something terribly wrong with this family dynamic.

You're the MASSIVE asshole. All of you that exclude Alice are. I hope karma fucks y'all all up.

You're all sanctimonious asshats who in order to show Alice that she chose wrong are freezing her out.

Tough position to be in but I’m going with YTA. Mainly because of your comments.

If you guys don’t want her around, then fine. Even if her husband does watch the kids, you don’t want her around because she has little to talk about besides the kids anyway so that’s really not your issue.

You all don’t want her around so just admit it. No need to blame her lifestyle.

Don’t know why all the siblings and you have such a strong aversion to her but just own it.

Don’t come here with excuses seeking judgement when in reality it’s validation you seek. There are other subs for that

ESH except for Alice to be honest. You married into a family of insufferable assholes. Good luck with that.

Wow, what a bizarre “family”. You not only abandoned your sil you’ve all abandoned your nieces & nephews. You’re not only the AH you’re selfish, judgmental and anti family. It’s not like she asking you to adopt or even babysit the children and she’s right, a family should want to spend time with family. Truly pathetic.

As long as you are OK with you, your husband, and his siblings establishing the idea that family is only family when it is convenient, you are good. Just don't be surprised when something happens to you or your husband, and the siblings disappear.

Made a version of this comment on someone else’s comment:

I actually feel a bit bad for her. Imagine being the only adult who does anything in a house of 5 children and another ‘adult’!! It boggles the mind that they don’t want to help her. As for not liking children, okay, fair enough. But the ‘she made her bed and has to lie in it’ bit is just mean. TWO people make a baby (not that you would know it sometimes!) where’s this judgment on him? A friend of mine had two awful children who I couldn’t stand. Did I stop her bringing them round so she could have a cuppa and put her feet up for half hour? No, I gave the children something to do to keep them busy and put cartoons on the television, or threw them out in the back garden if it was warm enough. If humans gave as much love and support as they did judgement and criticism the world would be a better place. Sorry, but YTA. There’s ways round these things. You sound like children yourselves!