Lebanese Christians are mostly Maronites. Also in communion with Rome.
But majority of Christians arab are eastern orthodox
And more like Greek Orthodox not so much affiliated with Russian Orthodox
I came here for this. To everyone not aware of this: There are many types of orthodoxism, like russian, greek, serbian, ukrainian, romanian and so on. They’ve each got independent governance and don’t necessarily share the same calendar nor traditions.
correct
But in the case of Arab Christians, they follow Greek traditions, especially in Syria, Jordan, and some residents in Lebanon
As for the Assyrians and Maronites, they mostly follow Rome
The Copts are an existing church in their own right, and they are also linked to the Eastern Orthodoxy, so much so that the Ethiopians used to follow them.
Copts, Ethiopians, and Armenians are Oriental Orthodox, which is not in communion with the Eastern Orthodox despite many similarities and cross-communion occurring in some cases. Many Arab/Levantine Christians are Oriental Orthodox as well, not just EO. That being said, "Oriental" does actually mean eastern.
The Ethiopian church only became autocephalous in 1950, before that it was part of the Coptic church, and would have its leader, the abuna, chosen by the Coptic patriarch.
And to add even more confusion, there is also the "Church of the East" (aka Nestorian Church) which was the product of an entirely different schism.
But this is all under Eastern Orthodoxy no? Eastern Orthodoxy: Patriarchy of Serbia, Patriarchy of Russia, Georgia, Greece, Constantinople, Bulgaria ext the list goes on, these all are under Eastern Orthodoxy.
Not to mention that even within Greek orthodoxy there are some further denominations based on Patriarchies
Most Maronites don’t like being called Arab. In certain aspects, it’s an inaccurate demonym. It’s akin to calling the Irish people British.
Its a nice phantom border of Austrian Empire btw.
Yeah, I don't exactly remember why Greek Catholicsm became a thing but I'm pretty sure it was because of Polish nobles anyway, it's pretty cool that we still see borders like this
Edit: I was wrong, mixed up some stuff
Union of Brest, bro.
hehe, brest
Yeah, I completely forgot about this...
I wonder how did the lower alpha templates impact the formation of the Ruthenian Uniate Church.
They wanted to lower the influence of Duchy of Moscow on the ruthenian orthodox population, later on Russian Tsars started fighting it.
It was even more common in all right bank Ukraine, but Russian Tsar banned Greek Catholic Church after gaining this land in the result of the partitions of Poland, and forced them into Orthodoxy at the beginning.
no it's a border of Poland-Lithuania
Same thing with Lebanon (Maronites)
Also in Lebanon where it's mostly Maronite (Syriac/Antiochene but catholic).
They are still Roman Catholics, they are just not in the Latin Rite. They still belong to the church in Rome and no other, so they are just as Roman as any other Catholics.
Maybe de facto Roman Catholics, but within the Church we never call them Roman because their liturgical traditions originate from other centers such as Antioch, Jerusalem, or Constantinople, despite being loyal to Rome at the end of the day.
As an Orthodox Christian, we consider ourselves Catholic with a big 'C', just not Roman Catholic.
We also don't typically use "Roman" to refer to Eastern Catholics. We'll say Eastern Catholic or use the more pejorative "Uniate".
My understanding is that both churches still consider themselves Catholic and Orthodox in the literal meanings of the words. They have just chosen different epithets to emphasize their choice of belief.
My brothers in Christ
I was raised Roman Catholic and we didn’t refer to the eastern Catholics as “Roman”. The Latin Church is the largest church in the Catholic Church. It is usually synonymously referred to as Roman Catholic because Roman = Latin. They were usually called Eastern Catholic collectively or commonly Greek Catholics. I know there are other churches, like the ones in the Middle East. But I don’t recall what they were commonly referred to as besides eastern Catholics.
You are correct that they are in full communion with the Pope and Rome. But I do not believe they consider themselves as “Roman” Catholic.
I was raised Catholic, come from a family of Knights of Columbus, was sentenced to attended 12 years of Catholic school, and had no idea there was this distinction at all.
They’re not. The church is one: Saint, Catholic and Apostolic (as in the Credo). But never defined as Roman, although it comprises around 99.3% of the worldwide catholic population, precisely because of the other Oriental rites. TL;DR: Catholics, yes; Roman Catholics, no.
They’re Catholics, just not Roman Catholics. But rather catholics in communion with Rome
There's also Christianity in Kerala, India which is the eastern most church founded by apostle st.Thomas. Right now 40% of kerala Christians are RC, but independent and follow thier own eastern rites.
Omg green Christians
The map includes my favourite denomination of Christianity: Tibetan Buddhism.
Well there is a BBC documentary called "Was Jesus Christ a Buddhist Monk?"
Islam was considered a heretical branch of Christianism during its first centuries, it is kiiiiinda not so wrong. The map could sure use a legend and better notation.
and don't forget the Romans considered the early christians to be just another jewish sect
I've always been curious about this : when do a branch from a religion start being considered as a distinct religion itself?
It’s a great question. The Jewish Christians were one of many sects who believed in a messianic figure around that time period.
Other than that, they were functionally extremely similar for at least a hundred years.
One of the first notable distinctions came about after the Bar Kokhba revolt of 135CE when a different messianic figure, Simon Bar Kokhba, led a revolt in Jerusalem. The subsequent quelling by the Romans resulted in laws banning Jews from Jerusalem, a move which Christians declared they should be exempt from because their messiah was Jesus.
Less than two hundred years later we get the Edict of Milan (313 CE) and Emperor Constantine converts to Christianity.
One theory might be on the role of conversion within Jewish Christianity, proselytising was necessary for the survival of the religion and the role of baptism for quick conversion made the religion much more accessible than rabbinical Judaism.
Perhaps we can also speculate that civilisation was also ready to move away from animist and polytheistic religion towards a clear, monotheistic message? It’s certainly clear to see that the Roman Empire played a huge role in defining and changing the Christian religion in the subsequent centuries.
When the previously mentioned prophet comes, Whoever sees his own way as right instead of the prophet's way, then a new religion will emerge.
The jews still kinda consider christians a just another heretical sect doe?
Nah, we no longer count them as Jews. And our official policy on non-Jews is "whatever, please just leave us alone."
If only they practiced what they preach.
Eh, no. Judaism isn't really a "faith" the same way Christianity is. As such even the concept of heresy doesn't really apply. Christianity has a very clearly defined "credo" and deviation from that is heresy, and there's of course more stuff which can be deemed heretical as well. Judaism isn't defined by belief the same way, it's an ethnic religion. You're not Jewish because you believe in a Jewish creed, you're Jewish because of your heritage.
Pauline Christianity took the stance that you don't need to be Jewish nor follow Jewish laws to be a Christian, and quickly most Christians were actually Greeks.
This separates most Christians from Judaism basically entirely.
Yes and no. Judaism certainly has its religious orthodoxies as well.
This is just plain false.
That's only partially true, yes Judaism is an ethnic religion and your being a jew is partially defined as your heritage but it is also a religion with rules. There's a reason why ethnic jews who are religiously christian are not considered jews by many other jews. It can both be a culture and a religion.
I mean they literally were a Jewish cult that refused to play ball with the Roman pantheon and that’s why they got fucked up
My joke was the post's name being Christianity in Europe
Oh that, forgive me, I’m but uncultured swine.
Source?
In medieval times people believed Islam to come from Arian Christianity specifically
LGM (little green missionaries)
Islam was referred to as "Mohammedan Christianity" for ages in European religious scholarly circles. It's not that much of a misnomer.
Basically, it's all the same.
Crusaders in shambles
Is that Buddhism area in Russia Legit?
Yes. It's Kalmykia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkhan_Bakshin_Altan_Sume
Founder: 14th Dalai Lama
crazy cool thing to read about a town in russia
What massive continent-spanning empires and migrations do to a mf
Russia would be such a cool country if it wasn't for their goverment.
Any country would be such a cool country if it wasn't for their government)
User deleted comment
3mo
That applies to most countries to be honest. Countries like England, France, Spain and such are all based on one group of people cleansing the territory of the others.
Being a result of colonization, and being a colonial empire aren't the same thing.
Like, the United States mainland is a result of a colonization, but it does not mean that we should consider the lower 48 states a colonial empire.
Is England a colony? The Angles took the land from the Celts, after all.
You dig deep enough and everywhere is a colony. Except maybe Olduvai Gorge.
Also see: the Magyar migrations and the Germanic Substrate Hypothesis.
Africans were the original colonists, they colonized the whole damn world!
You go deep enough the entire European ethnos is colonial lol. The inception of Europe is ethnic domination from a more warlike, technologically advanced society descending from the Pontic steppe. Even before then it was agriculturalists on top of Hunter gatherers lmao.
And before the Angles it was the Romans.
Colonial Imperialism is hardly a new idea. Hell, Egypt in the time of the ancient Roman Republic was a Macedonian Greek colony.
Those Mongolic Buddhists came there after it became part of Russia. And there are no Buddhists around them for thousands of kilometers. So yes, this is a cool and unlikely thing to happen.
Worth mentioning that the Mongolic Buddhists only arrived in the 17th century and expelled most of the preexisting population when they came
Not the best example seeing as the Kalmyks(Oirat Mongols) migrated to their present position in the last 400 years, but the settled area didn't really have much of a Slavic population.
And what about the Mongols who galloped all the way from Asia to Europe? How far back do you have to go before its no longer considered colonialism?
Apparently there are between 700K - 1.5 Million Buddhists in Russia.
To be fair, there's 100k - 1 Million of literally everyone in Russia, the country is as diverse as it gets
That's why I'm confused by so many people in the capital being racist or nationalist towards everyone else
Its kalmykia you can look it up
Thank you guys for explanation
Over 60% of the population of that region are Kalmyks, an ethnic group of Mongolian descent with their own language, who mainly practice Tibetan Buddhism.
Yes Kalmyk Autonomous Republic.
One on this map is Kalmykia region, it’s one of several. Ones that are more to the east- Altai, Buratia, Tyva, Baikal region and Yakutia are Buddhist too.
Yakutia region is only a little smaller than the entire Europe.
Around a million people in Russia are traditionally Buddhist (not by choice, but through cultural heritage).
There's a beautiful Buddhist temple in Saint Petersburg too
you sure yakuts are mostly buddhist (excl orthodox)? also most of these are mostly converted ortho
It’s a mishmash. Ethnic Yakuts have shamanism (officially accepted and supported), buddhism, tengrism, orthodoxy.
But since only USSR pointed out people’s ethnicities and Russia doesn’t, it’s not really possible to separate ethnic Slavs in Yakutia who are orthodox/atheist from ethnic Yakuts who are buddhist/shaman/tengrian/orthodox/atheist.
Majority is hard to tell. I’m more referring to traditionally buddhist places where people are buddhist through generations of such culture.
Germany, while it seems to have more Protestants, is actually slightly more Catholic (21.5 mil) than Protestant (20.5 mil).
One reason could be that the in the former GDR a majority of people have no religion at all.
The major protestant nation inside Germany (Prussia) was carved between Poland (Catholic) and DDR (state atheism). Bavarian and Rhinish Catholics have the last laugh over Bismarck's grave.
And it weren't just the Prussian Germans who were driven into exile from what would be transferred to Poland and Russian SFSR, but also the Masurians, the Polish-speaking Protestants in Prussia, as due to their religion they were classified as Germans.
You already know "land doesn't vote", now get ready for "land doesn't pray"
Don't forget the "population reductions" in former Prussia and Silesia of Germans that were majority Protestant.
Yeah because of communism
That but also rhine-ruhr
A policy of state atheism didn't help, but it's mostly population. The Catholic part of Germany is the most populated part. The Ruhr alone is the most populated region in Germany.
Germany was majority Protestant before the war.
What war? Germany has a long history of wars and religions that change bc of wars.
Crazy. I had no idea Germany had Catholics even considering the whole Martin Luther stuff.
I'm German and I have always lived in predominantly catholic regions. Where I grew up, some villages belonged to one duchy in the past, others to another kingdom, and each region had the religion of its ruler, so about 20% traditionally belonged to a Lutheran minority.
It always surprises me when Germany is perceived as a protestant country, because that is absolutely not how I have experienced it myself. I assume that is because Lutheran Prussia used to be culturally dominant.
On a side note, I was 45 when I realized that in large parts of Germany, the protestants inherited the old churches after the 30-years-war. I always had thought the old churches were catholic everywhere and everybody else had modern and less ornate churches. My image of Lutheranism had always been shaped so much by that benevolent austerity and friendly and solid massive rounded maple or beech furniture I knew that I had difficulties computing this fact lol.
It’s the same for all the medieval churches in Scandinavia. All started out as Catholic, and was then converted into to Protestant churches after the reformation.
The Teutonic Order to Germany pipeline is still insane to me
You should look up the Thirty Years' War.
The Bosnian melting pot...
Almost every Balkan Muslim I’ve met(mainly Kosovan/Albanians and Bosniak Muslim I’ve met have described themselves as cultural Muslims. They adhere to most of the culture of their country (that has influences from religion they might necessarily practice), and usually don’t adhere to many of their own rulings (hijab, dating, no alcohol etc). But in the same vein, they usually don’t eat pork, celebrate Ramadan and eid, and generally believe in Allah and the tenets of their religion enough to not be agnostic
I live in London and I've known a family of 8 Albanians for around 10 years now, they all fast on the first day of Ramadan, and on the 2nd day they eat bacon sandwiches from my parents' cafe. heh.
Tbh that’s how it is (was is prob the better word) in a lot of the Muslim world. It’s just that fundamentalist ideologies started popping up in the past century, often as reactionary movements as a result of colonialism or internal strife, and they’ve gained traction in many countries. Like Wahhabism, Salafism, etc.
Those Muslim countries in Europe being communist when fundamentalism spread in other Muslim countries prob played a part in why they stand out.
This is fundamentally untrue in most places beyond a tiny slicy of the wealthy and educated. For the most part, the present fundamentalism didnt spring out of nowhere- it represents the political and cultural eclipse of the cosmopolitan urban population by the hicks.
It's basically the same process that happened in america. Wealthy educated people who wanted to much change scared the religous masses into a backlash, supported by non-cosmopolitan elites.
Albania is an exception because of its decades of brutal state mandated secularization under communism and the relatively moderate forms of islam traditionally practiced there
I know I was born there...lol
Turkey is actually pretty similar in that aspect, unlike the rest of the middle east..
Thanks ottomans
Ah yes, my favorite branch of Christianity, "Sunni Islam." Why isn't this just called "Religion throughout Europe"?
Ah yes, my favourite region of Europe, the Middle East and North Africa.
Now you're thinking like a European noble!
And Albania and Serbia, etc. Anyway my point stands. That doesn't make the title more accurate.
Islam was seen as Christian heresy for quite a long time in the past. Technically Islam is a Christian sect, as much as all Christian sects are actually Jewish heresies - hence "Abrahamic Monotheistic Religions.
bro the map has Buddhism in it
why did you do him like that, he has to come up with another myth now >:(
something something Manichaeism something something
There is a theory that Jesus was actually a Buddhist monk. https://muse.jhu.edu/article/188153
Some of the original disciples of the Buddha were sent to ancient Greece and Alexander the Great made it all the way to India. Religious beliefs tend to mingle a good bit, e.g, the pagan Christmas tree tradition, Shinto's influence on Buddhism in Japan and Christianity mixing quite liberally with local beliefs in Africa.
The pagan Christmas tree is actually a myth --I had heard it my whole life and assumed it to be true but apparently the oldest records of Christmas trees date from about the 1500's and specifically to parts of Protestant Germany. In the English speaking world, Christmas trees didn't become widespread til the 1840's/50's because of Queen Victoria popularizing them.
Victoria was German, so that makes sense
"Technically Islam is a Christian sect" which part of your unwashed ass did you pull that out from?
This map has no legend…
Also it's weird OP's title specifically mentions Christianity when this seems to be a map about religious affiliation in general.
Bot?
Wtf are those posts??? Constant models with no downvote or upvote and no comments.
This is the first post they’ve made that breaks the pattern, very very weird.
All the other posts got barely any traction so I'd say the bot host just changed where it reposts to.
That’s what I thought too at first, then I noticed the religions indicated directly on the map.
Except for Armenia, right?
They're Armenian Christians, which is it's own subset of Christianity.
but that could have been made clearer.
Yeah I literally have no way to know what brighter red is supposed to be
Armenia is super Orthodox Christian, apparently
Armenian Apostolic or Gregorian Church is part of Oriental Orthodox churches. First nation to adopt Christianity in 301 AD.
Legend would be better than labels that blend in with country labels on the map. The bold font doesn’t help enough.
You’re missing Orthodox Christians in Syria and Palestine, which would be visible on this map.
Absolutely,...and Lebanon!
Also, Chaldeans in Iraq.
But on Iraq and Syria, are there regions in which they comprise a majority? Because that’s how the map works. You’ll find Catholic Churches and Protestant churches in areas colored for the other - they’re just a minority.
You’re right, Christians are a majority in specific towns in Syria but not in entire regions.
Having said that, it doesn’t show Alawite Muslims or Druze (at least not that I can see). Alawites are a majority in Tartous and Druze are a majority in Sweida.
Edit: nvm. Tartous and Sweida are marked in dark green (Shia Islam) but map just doesn’t make specific distinctions.
The Christian branches in the middle east are actually very split and complicated. You have the eastern catholic churches (which chaldean fit into), you also have the Assyrian church of the east and the Ancient church of the east which both split in 1964.
Orthodox in Lebanon would not show up on a map of this scale because while there is a significant minority they are too dispersed throughout the country and a lot of them are concentrated in the two largest cities (Beirut and Tripoli), whereas the Catholic Maronites are a majority in large areas across the country.
Lebanon does have a catholic region on this map
Don't forget Coptic christians in Egypt!
It's missing the Druze in the Golan Heights.
I doubt that would actually be visible from the perspective of this map, which seems to be tracking majority religions in an area.
User deleted comment
3mo
I don't think there are many Christians left in Palestine. They used to make up a large proportion of the popation but definitely don't anymore.
No significant Christian presence in that region besides Bethlehem, and even there their numbers are decreasing.
Yeah there are 1000 left. Everyone fled Israeli occupation. And those 1000 are being bombed.
You do realize that Palestine is not just Gaza?
There are also Christians in Gaza.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/11/1/under-israeli-attack-who-are-the-christians-of-gaza
Why is Armenia red?
they are light red. They are their own religion.. /s
will be this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Apostolic_Church
Part of Oriental Orthodoxy, it is one of the most ancient Christian institutions
Yes though it is important to mention that the loose association named Oriental Orthodoxy is just several decades old and it is more like a club. So, it's not like Catholicism, which is strictly centralised. A relevant comparison can be the Church of England and Protestanism.
A generally more apt categorization is that Armenian Apostolic Church is Miaphysite and anti-Chalcedonian.
A relevant comparison can be the Church of England and Protestanism.
...which are the same color in the map
Well, yes. By current definitions, Armenia would also be coloured as Oriental Orthodox. However, on the map, only Armenia is Oriental Orthodox, so in practise, it looks like it is doing it completely solo:) if the map was larger or finer grained you would see the same shade of red applied to Armenia, Ethiopia and partly Egypt, Eritrea and Syria.
Cool thanks
we Armenians also our Ethiopian brothers are followers of Apostolic Church. A different branch pf Christianity. Also one of the oldest
Armenia is Oriental Orthodox, while other Orthodox are Eastern Orthodox. Oriental and Eastern Orthodox are just as similar to each other as each is to Catholicism for example, and are not in communion.
Why is the region of Hungary bordering Romania Protestant?
Wandering preachers and returning students from switzerland, popularised protestantism (calvinism to be specific) in the area, and it stuck around, mostly as a protest against the Habsburgs and as a sign of hungarian nationalism
They protest for Transilvania :))
Afaik there are a lot of protestants on the other side of the border as well. I don’t know why they are not shown at all.
Probably should update Nagorno-Karabakh
Yep, Artsakh has been entirely cleansed.
Everyone relax - there’s no legend because the data was manipulated to most accurately reproduce the cover of Alt J’s Grammy-nominated 2014 release, This Is All Yours
The Tibetan Buddhism area requires a specific response from anyone who sees it first time:
"Where the heck did that come from?!"
There's no fucking map key and I must scream.
Also turkey is hella wrong. Shia turks exists. I'm one of them. I think Albania is wrong too. Afaik southern Albania should be shia (bektaşi/alevi).
I was also missing the Alevis in Turkey. They for sure have majority regions, but they are barely mapped.
But not in a majority in any region I don't think.
Everyone is a majority if you define regions small enogh.
Alevi-bekteshi are very intresting. It think it’s hard to map them. Also yeah this map has a couple of mistakes, like adjara and other parts of Georgia.
Can we get a key on the left please lol
Albania has Orthodoxy too.
Caucasus map is wrong. There's a small Christian minority in Northern part of Azerbaijan. Karabakh part is either outdated or wrong at all. If it's the 1st one, then there were no Christians in surrounding areas. Georgia has also religious diversity.
So Latvia has all 3 types of Christianity within a small area? Amazing it is
Yeah but it's really mostly divided by ethnicties: Latvians - Lutherans, Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians - Orthodox and Latgallians - Catholics
The Netherlands is wrong here, the south is catholic indeed but there are some pockets in the east and west as well.
And Zeeland should be mostly protestant
Are Druze and Alawites counted as Shia? They are not even Muslim
Yeah Syrian shores should have been a different color
Well alawites call themselves Muslim. Druze don’t
Alawites are Shia and consider themselves Muslim. Whereas Druze, while originally developing out of the Shia branch Ismailism, don’t consider themselves Muslims and other Muslim branches don’t recognize them as such either.
Aren’t the Lebanese and Syrian Christian’s mostly orthodox and not catholic?
Syrians yes, the majority of Lebanese Christians are Eastern Catholic, with Maronites being the largest community, Greek Orthodox second, Greek Catholic third, and then there are other smaller groups like Armenian Orthodox and catholic, Syriac Orthodox & Catholic, Latins, Protestants...
would be cool if these maps went into more detail, like which church in particular.
Armenia: being different since year zero
What’s the red for Armenia?
What about assyrian Christans? Feels like Syria and Iraq should have some dots
Have I gone INSANE!
Or
Has this map no FUCKING legend?
Don't worry, you're on a trip. The legend is CLEARLY visible on the _______ corner
Interesting how Lithuania is onlt Baltic State that remained fully catholic christian
Does anyone know what that patch of land following Tibetan Buddhism is?
Since no one is talking about Tibetan Buddhist spot in Russia, I had to google it. It is Republic of Kalmykia which is the only Buddhist nation in Europe.
There are areas of high concentrations of catholics in the UK, I wonder how granular the data they used is.
Estonia isn't protestant Christian. It is mostly atheist and the biggest religious group is the Russian Orthodox Church, mainly located in the south-east region by Lake Peipus and the Russian border.
*Traditional Christian divisions
Important to note that Catholic Christianity isn’t simply Roman Catholic, but also encompasses the Eastern Churches that are in communion with Rome. The blue region in Ukraine is actually mostly Greek Catholics, not Roman Catholics.