I’m done with trail runners for thru-hiking

I think the old saying "hike your own hike" applies here. They work for some people, they don't for others. Humans are a diverse species. Do what works for you

I've done them all. From heavy leather boots to Lone Peaks. They're all good for something but none of them good for everything. I'm currently on Merrell Moab 3s (non gore tex). They won't be great for everything either.

I think many thru-hikers ride their hiking shoes for too many miles.

I swapped trail runners after every 500 miles with no regrets. Yes, it’s expensive. But so are injuries.

There are more structured trail runners, and less structured ones. You may need a more structured one.

for trail runners, but they aren’t made to be worn for 20 miles a day, day after day.

I think some ultra runners would disagree.

You can pry my trail runners off my cold, dead (dry, well-conditioned) feet

If you like boots you should just go for it. When I was on the pct, like a week from finishing I met a guy wearing big ole leather boots. We said he was crazy for wearing boots, he said we were crazy for wearing runners. Yet we were all at the same place, same time, and finished within less than 24hrs of each other. So it really just comes down to what you like.

Ok that was always allowed.

I have hiking boots and trail runners and the cushioning in my boots doesn’t rebound any faster than my trail runners.

HYOH. I use a hammock system. I don’t tell people not to use tent, bivy, or tarp. I’m sure other people prefer boots over trail runners, but trail runners are king for me.

I have a slew of ankle and tendon injuries from taking fluoroquinolone antibiotics. I can’t imagine hiking with boots anymore. They’re heavy and they strain my achilles far more than trail runners.

Do what works for you.

Hot wet feet are a recipe for blisters.

Trail runners all day, err day.

I had all the problems you describe with Altras, and when I switched to Saucony Peregrine 11s they all went away. Best shoe I've ever hiked in. The sole is insanely sticky and the rock plate makes edging in soft soil and scrambling in rocks as easy as I ever found it in boots. 'trail runner' is a huge category, it might be worth continuing to look for other options.

Do what works for you. The idea of “ankle support” is kind of a myth unless your ankle mobility is total crap. But yeah do whatever works for you.

Lots of middle ground options available also. I have rode a few different pairs of Salomon's much farther than my usual Altras hold their shape. Not as light, but definitely sturdy and comfortable without the weight of a regular boot.

You’re obviously not a golfer.

See I specifically want shoes that don't have "support."

I used to hike in Feiyues but they take forever to dry.

Once saw an analysis of using a hiking boot versus a trail runner, the effect on your body was like adding 5-7 pounds of rocks in your pack for the whole trip using the heavier boots versus a lighter shoe

I agree with you here myself. Rock scrambles, cliffs, very steep inclines, and other sections are much better done in boots. I’m also naturally clumsy so it would be like me to slip/trip and fall and bust my face open, or fall off the mountain, or break my foot. If there’s a way I can minorly injure myself, the universe usually provides. Waterproof, solid, UL boots exist and modern shoe tech has come a long way. Hell, I used to reapply waterproofing boot spray to my old ones as I wore them out, which made them last a lot longer. I feel safer, more supported, more secure, and more comfortable, in a well fitting, light boot.

I bring a pair of lighter shoes with me too if it’s more of a water hike. Usually a thin, quick-dry, sturdy, water shoe.

Nah, I can't stand trail runners either. I think they are great on pretty well groomed trails but the second I go bush I wish I had boots

Hike your own hike. Nobody has the same body, your feet seemingly need more support than other people.

It is a matter of conditioning your feet, just as you say.

The reason that so many people get injured is that they've had their feet coddled in over-supportive constricting shoes their whole lives. Just like any athletic endeavor, you can't just start doing 20 mile days in minimal footware and not get injured if you aren't already conditioned, especially after your 20's are over :(

No, they aren't made to withstand 20 mile days, day after day, but that's why they get replaced.

Is more frequent replacement a reason to wear heavy boots instead? IMO absolutely not.

To wear minimal footwear on a long hike, you need to earn it by putting in the work to train your feet, develop physical adaptations to overcome a lifetime in supportive shoes, and avoid overtraining.

Some people will determine that this required training work simply isn't worth it, and will just wear boots instead. I just think that's a bad decision. It's like wearing huge mittens everywhere you go because you'd rather not injure your hands.

The problem is that some people will simply train by thru hiking, while others will get injured if they just go for it. Whether this happens is largely a genetic determination, and you really won't know which camp you're in until you have an injury. And getting an injury really sucks and is totally demotivating, I get that.

I myself am injury-prone, I think. Either I'm too stoked and tend to overtrain, or my tissue simply isn't as strong as others, or both. Personally, when faced with this dilemma, my solution has been to wear minimal barefoot shoes basically always, train regularly, stretch and roll regularly, and walk a lot more in my daily life. Not to wear more supportive shoes.

Yea, maybe wearing boots could replace all of that work, but only in the short term. You may still end up with planar fasciitis, bunions, hammertoes, whatever else, by denying your feet the conditioning opportunity. And exception to this would be "barefoot" boots, but I suspect that you'd have the same issues with those as with trail runners.

Not to mention this is /r/ultralight, and trail runners are way lighter. And dry faster. Lugging heavy boots every step of the trail is awful, especially if they're wet. They're hot, heavy, wet, and might require you carry longer socks.

In the end, most of us probably aren't even qualified to have this discussion, and just regurgitate things we hear from doctors and researchers. Myself included. I won't disagree that trying to make the right decision is a frustrating experience. And then others aren't interested at all in the science of this topic. But that obviously doesn't mean that their feet aren't subject to the biomechanics etc. that I'm talking about.

You do you.  Trailrunners work only if your feet and legs in general are prepared. As anything, it is a compromise. Support and protection is sacrificed for lighter feet. 

I can't even imagine doing anything above 100km in boots. I am suffering like an animal when fall/winter hiking in boots. It feels like having anvils on my feet. 

But that's me. 

haven't done any thruhikes (europe here) but have had my barefoot trailrunners for 6 years now... they are at the stage where they finally need to be replaced... so much better than any of the boots I ever had, even more expensive boots... my ankles are doing much better and my feet feel better after a long day too, but everyone should pick what works for them and not what everyone says to use

I've been using the Sawtooth X for years. They usually last me about an entire hiking season, so they aren't the most durable but man they treat my feet well.

I suppose the reason for their popularity is because more people do hikes of 200 miles or less, where these shoes shine, as opposed to really long multi month trips. If you find a hiking boot keeps your feet happier, have fun and report back which boots you pick!

Would like to know which trail runners you purchased. From what I understand, with trail runners, you really have to dial everything right for them to be of use (toebox width, arch, etc..)

The Camino de Santiago is littered with injured boot people. Literally they’re always the boot people, never the running shoes people. The mileage varies but the terrain is hard stuff, gravel, fat rocks, concrete, rarely wetness mud or roots that would make sense for boots. The boots are my primary suspect, -signed a filthy trail runner wearer. Good luck

boots are fine. Just heavy

They literally state on their websites they are only good for 250 miles... We push miles in them on our own accords.. not because they are meant to do that... I got 1,300 miles out of a pair of LP's and no feet issues.. were they pretty... Hell no lol but they worked.. I also have a past Achilles injury I CAN NOT wear anything anything mid sole or higher and nothing that isn't 0 drop... So LP's just are my perfect fit 🤷‍♂️ 2 👑trails completed so far... Isn't broke don't fix it

I really love hiking in Hoka mid boots but I’ve never done a thru

HYOH then.

Altra Olympus.

I wear Moabs or Keens, haven't found a trail runner yet that offers enough underfoot protection and support for me, they just end up causing me overuse/stress injuries I don't get with heavier shoes.

I second this sentiment! I really wanted to like trail runners, but I had various foot issues. Now I'm back in my Keen's with no more foot issues. I just deal with the heavy wet feet sometimes. Another benefit: they last ~>1500 miles.

I started the AT with New Balance trail runners 12 years ago & the midsoles were shot after about 20 miles of the trail. Kept hiking with them til ~100 miles in & bought a pair of hiking boots at the NOC. Took me a few years & 4 or 5 different brands until I settled on oboz boots as my favorites, & I’m still wearing oboz to this day. I imagine that someone may have introduced a trail runner that has better materials that will last, but my current boots are light enough & are comfortable from mile 0, so I won’t be seeking something else anytime soon.

Eh, I tried trailrunners and landed up back in boots. I like the trail runners for regular trail running or doing dayhikes, but find I get blisters and foot trouble past 20km/day in the LonePeaks. Just something off in the fit...but of course they felt fine in the store and by the time you have gone far enough to discover the issues you can't return them (I'm not in the US, most places do not have the kind of generous policies you folks have!). I only have so much money and I have a boot that works and doesn't change every season, so I stick to my Renegades for long distance hiking. They fit, they do the thing, they don't give me grief. Sure, I'd love to come join the dark side! But the LonePeak were already the widest thing I could find here and they super tore my feet up.

By trail runners do you mean altra? Because they fall apart and die faster than any other.. or do you mean hoka?

Adidas boost midsoles don't collapse over time. The Terrex Free Hiker is the best hiking/trail shoe I've ever had. High ankles with sock-like collars even keep dirt out like gaiters. Continental outsoles are super grippy, although I wish Adidas still used Stealth rubber instead. That stuff has insane grip.

Eh, I use trail runners and find I wear out the soles before I have a problem with the support, but that's me.

I just don't like how clunky boots feel, like I lose agility that counts when I'm trying to not step wrong.

But I havent tried every boot or every trail runner, just know what I have tried that works for me.

After about 1000 miles on my thru hike my feet were conditioned and I was able to do 20 mile days in Walmart crocs which had worn out with holes in them.

The conditioning thing worked for me, maybe not you.

I’m literally going the opposite way. Just switched to sandals for hiking. It’s all in what you’re used to, and what you’re willing to do to make it work. Also helps to keep body weight down. Hiking in sandals or light trail runners is much easier now at 155lbs than at 220lbs. Variety is huge though, and staying on the same shoe for too long arguably isn’t enjoyable.

Overall you will lose this argument on an Ultralight group. Simply because boots are heavier than trail runners. Now had you posted on backpacking or lightweight... Walk your own walk in taking holistic decisions, not ones premised principally on weight or a very narrow range of wilderness conditions.

it's certainly interesting. I have never found a boot to be comfortable. I typically walk over 10 miles a day at work, every day, mostly on uneven outdoor ground. often carrying 10+ pounds of gear. always in trail runners or barefoot shoes. zero fatigue.

I went from boots to trail runners and then tried to go back to boots. Couldn’t do it. More support in boots is a myth, placebo at best. I had more foot and ankle fatigue with boots than I do with trail runners. I really struggled with winter hiking until I found some mids that acted like trail runners.

I never got the trail runner thing. Everyone's like, "they dry faster" but if I have to walk through 4 inches of water, my feet are uncomfortably squish squish squishing for hours. Am I doing something wrong? Shoes are Inov8 Roclite, socks are darn tough "lightweight hiker," or something like that.

Trail runners are too much for me. Total overkill that trash my feet.

I hike in Tevas now. Sandals all the way.

Personally more of a fan of rugged hiking shoes like Merrels as a compromise between lightweightedness and durability

I haven’t scrolled through all 200 comments but came here to say that I think the EVA midsole is the real enemy here. Squish is not the answer because it deforms and loses its springiness rapidly. I can see the use case for running, but not for hiking. Something tougher like PU still has plenty of spring and shock absorption for walking, especially with a little weight.

My dream shoe would be a classic Chaco midsole but zero drop and flat (ie no arch support). Old school Chaco outsole (the one that looked like boot tread, that you can still get if you go custom. Then maybe the upper from a Merrell Moab. Something breathable and fairly quick drying but durable enough to last the 1-2000 miles this shoe would go before wearing out. The Bedrock mountain clog comes close, but the open heel collects debris and the clog style is pretty loose in the mid foot. But if they made one with a closed heel I’d probably thru hike in that.

I don’t really interact with trail runners much. Usually they just run past me and that’s it. I’ve never paid attention to how fast they dry or how “cool” they are. Never needed to ask them for support either. Overall, I don’t think they’re a problem, and most are quite friendly.

Take a look at approach shoes.

I don't have baby ankles so I don't need support.

Trail runners were never made for hiking. They are made for running 1-2 h every second day.

Trail running shoes vary a hell of a lot. What shoes are you using? You want something firm and supportive like la sportiva akasha 2s from the sound of it

I’m still going with trail runners but my La Sportiva Wildcats are definitely beefier than most of what I see out there.

I hate the disposable nature of trail runners (aka Altras) but my feet get hot easily then get sweaty then get blistery. any kind of boot is a non-starter outside of winter months.

Foot/ankle issues aren’t a problem for me but when my soft ass feet get sweaty things go south quick!

I use tail runners a lot. I also use waterproof boots often. A trail I hike often is typically muddy with many ankle puddles. Boys are no brainer, all day.

I have a favorite pair of boots that have served me well for years. Unfortunately, they aren't made anymore, but they were Magnum brand tacti-cool black combat boots. The thing is, they only weigh as much as a pair of sneakers. With wool socks, my feet are always happy! No water gets in unless the water is up over the tops of the neck of the boots, at which point I would simply take off my boots and cross the water barefoot rather than get mushy boots.

I have plantar fasciitis, so I need good arch support. My orthopedic inserts fit perfectly in my boots, and the boots still have just enough padding after almost a decade of daily wear that it's only just this year that I'm considering getting them repaired by a professional cobbler.

You're right, they should make them with direct attach polyurethane midsoles, however consider that the midsoles of Oboz hiking shoes are the same material with the same compression properties of trail runners. They'll be denser, and that will help a bit but it's still EVA

Went for a trip in March and knew I had a lot of water crossings so I decided to try out some Hoka Speedgoat trail runners instead of the danners I usually wear. 1.5 miles in and I absolutely obliterated my ankle. I don’t know if it’s the shoes fault but they just feel super topple-y and unsteady and I don’t think I’ll be able to use them again without worrying. I really wish they made Danner mountain 600s without waterproofing and mesh to expel water

HYOH. Super feet insoles and trail runners got me through my PCT thru. I’ll be buried with a pair of trail runners on my feet.

Altra lone peak 4 mid was my favorite. They screwed up after that. Quality went down hill. Lots of trial and error to find what works. Most boots were fine. Not great. Note in hoka Kaha 2

Did you put superfeet insoles in them?

They work great for me? Only time I needed boots / thicker soles was when I first had symptoms of morton's neuroma 15 years ago and was setting off on my first "thruhike" of the Long Trail. I wore hiking shoes (not boots). That hike actually relieved my symptoms and got me to a place where I've used trail runners ever since. My feet scream in the boots I have to wear in winter. Trail runners for me allow me to go further every day than I can in boots.

Everyone's different...

I replace my trail runners every 2 months. I know most people don’t want to buy shoes that frequently but I don’t mind because I’ve never found boots that are truly comfortable.

I hiked AT, PCT and CDT in Oboz.

They’re good quality shoes w good grip and footbridge. Protective for knocks against rocks, roots, and so on. Heavier.

They’ll go farther on a pair.

My left ankle is pretty wrecked from my military service. Low proprioception, nerve damage. Constant low grade pain, but it can't communicate a serious injury if I twist or break it again. I've done rehab and it's - it still works. I wear boots because a slim ankle brace tends to wear out or cause weird issues with my heel.

I swear by my Clarion GTX by Vasque

I mean, there are other relevant questions. How much do you weigh? Do you have any hip, knee, or foot disfunctions that result in muscular imbalances? If yes to any of these or if you don’t know the answer, your best bet would be to skip the trail runners and talk to a PT for an evaluation.

A lot of thru hike trails are well worn - basically dirt paths that don’t require as much support. Personally I like Keens - not super heavy, but still thick enough soles for the rocky stream trails.

I’m still working through my “gear tryout phase” but I love my La Sportiva Bushido II’s. I’ve tried Moabs and Hokas as well. I’ve got narrow feet and like a sturdy shoe. So far these are my favorites for most terrain I’ve been in.

All depends on the shoe, and your foot. I consistently get upwards of 400-500 miles out of a pair of Altra Lone Peaks, and I usually dump them because the sole is too worn down to get any real purchase on the trail. I put over 1000 miles on a pair on the PCT in 2019, and hiked all of Oregon and Washington in another pair that I'm still using as gym shoes. Didn't get a single blister in 2650 miles.

A well made pair of shoes should give you at least 500 miles minimum. If they're not getting you that far, it's an issue on the manufacturing side. Everyone is going to have different preferences and fit. Find something that's well made, fits your foot comfortably, and performs the way you need it to. Fuck what anyone else tells you - they don't have your feet.

I did 160 miles on a pair of 40 dollar Nikes and it lasted and was comfortable. You don’t need 200 dollar shoes

Best shoes for grip I ever used was a pair of Nike trail runners— but they fell apart after a scant 100 miles. They were still comfortable and grippy, but all the “cleats” just peeled right off!

You make points.

But hikers make my feet sweat, and I have a very well supported lower leg naturally (thankfully)

You do you. If it works, more power to ya

If I had to change shoes at every stream crossing, I would have quit hiking after the first hike.

Trail runners for life. Boots are the devil. I did over 10K thru-hiking miles in mine, big miles, mostly ultralight loads but some heavy carries. Worked fantastic in every condition for me. Hike your own hike etc, but you’ll pry my trail runners out of my cold dead hands.

The key is to replace them pretty religiously at the 500 mile mark.

Depends on your feet. My feet have very strong high arches. I need literally no support. The only thing I'm wearing shoes for is a bit of squishy shit that makes walking over pointy rocks less tiring/leaves my feet less beat up feeling, and for grip. I will likely end up switching to a minimalist shoe when my feet are more used to hiking in them. I use them day to day, but not out on trail all the time yet.

I absolutely hate the weight of heavy boots on my feet, so, no.

I always throw some superfeet insoles into my trail runners. I'm cheap so I'll go 2 pairs of trail runners/1 pair super feet, but it really made the difference. You realize how thin the stock insoles are when you pull them out and compare to the superfeet.

Footwear is highly individual. The fit to your body is more important than any other factor, and your body is different from every other human's body. There is no "one-size fits all" here.

For me, the non-negotiable factors are wide shoes/boots that allow my foot and toes to spread and splay out with zero pressure on them, and flexible enough to allow me to walk akward surfaces that require me to lean and balance at odd angles.

I don't want or need my boots to be forcing me into postures that aren't ideal for the terrain, just to compensate for a lack of training my musculature and stability. I don't care about the height as long as they aren't limiting range of motion in any way.

I've found cheap columbia and timberlands mid suede boots that check those boxes and are more comfortable for me than any of the better quality options, so I wear those and never have feet issues as a result.

HYOH

Amen to Oboz! Did the last third of the AT in them as well as the CT. I did use HOKAs on the TRT.

Which trail runners, and which Oboz? Every pair of Altras I've had has disintegrated within 250 miles (sometimes as few as 100 miles). Meanwhile I've had Oboz that were basically just toughened up trail runners.

Do whatever makes you happy. I have been pretty happy in trail runners, but if it's not working for you don't be afraid to shake things up and experiment around.

Or just get a decent insole. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Wow, very cool!

I cannot imagine hiking without my Lowa Camino. I did all Camino Franches in 2014.Last year I let Lowa to change soles and 23rd June will start PCT sobo - in them🙂. They are high, leather boots and I love them

I can't personally even hike 12-15 miles in boots without noteworthy feet pain. In speedgoats my feet just get fatigued and still hurt of course but it's not even comparable to boots. Grant it, I'm not thru hiking just long backpacking. But I routinely do 15+ mile days with em and 20+ isn't uncommon either. Even at the end of the life of the speedgoats personally, I'm not trashing em for the cushion. It's because the rest of the shoe is dissolving. Big holes in the upper and lack of tread.

I mean HYOH and all that but if you want more ankle support why stop at hiking boots? A pair of walking boot style casts would be even more supportive.

Also if you think boots use some super secret foam that recovers faster than trail runners foam, I got some magical beans for sale. An inch of EVA is an inch of EVA regardless of how much shoe it is inside.

It sounds like you are unsure of your decision and want people to assure you your decision is ok.

When Oboz publishes their midsole foams, they say they use EVA, which is a less durable, less modern foam, also heavily used in trail runners. EVA was essentially the only foam used in trail runners until fairly recently, and is known for pounding down over miles. Of the foams on the market, EVA is the worst foam for losing cushioning and support over time. Bottom line: Oboz EVA midsole cushioning and support is not going to be any more durable than the cushioning and support in EVA-based trail runners.

Here's a guide to running shoe foams. In terms of support and cushioning lifetime, you're better off with anything made of TPEE, TPU, PEBAX, PEBA etc. These foams will retain their support over a longer period of time, with the possible exception of Nike ZoomX, because it's so soft.

That being said, foams like TPU that are beaded can have fragile exteriors if they're exposed, where you're potentially breaking chunks off the foam on rocky trails. Some shoes like the Saucony Xodus Ultra 2 (which uses TPU and PEBAX), put a carrier rubber around the foam to protect its exterior.

Trail runners aren't going to offer ankle protection to the extent boots do, and the upper of heavy boots are very likely to last longer than the upper of any lightweight trail runner. But the cushioning in modern, non-EVA trail runners will last much, much longer than any EVA midsole.

I should also note that stability is an issue for some people. Foams like TPU are made to be light and bouncy and this can create stability issues, where your ankles have to work harder to keep you in line on each step. These kinds of shoes sometimes need additional width or carriers, where there are short sidewalls of foam around the foot, or a stabilizing element in the shoe (rock plate, midsole plate) to keep them stable. Firmer EVA foams are generally very stable, but they're also heavier, far less durable and less fun to walk/run/hike in, because you're not getting much energy return.

One more note on this: Most Altra and Hoka trail shoes are EVA. There's nothing wrong with these shoes and people put TONS of happy miles on them, but if you're looking for the absolute maximum cushioning and support lifecycle without the cushioning changing too much, EVA midsoles, whether they're in boots or trail runners or running shoes, should be your last choice.

Agree. If I’m off trail or on the AT and cross the rock fields, boots with support are what I need. Trail runners = injury or pain from walking on the sides of hills with weight.

Zamberlans are my choice - hands down.

https://www.rei.com/product/112531/zamberlan-vioz-lux-gtx-rr-hiking-boots-mens

[and they’re on sale until May 27 -$100 off]