New temporary lane restrictions. Presumably this is testing for the upcoming renewal of 76 ave. I think this is great because eastbound, drivers would treat this very wide lane as two lanes, causing right-turning vehicles to move forward to crosswalk, causing confusion as five vehicles would be at the four-way stop. Should help make this intersection a bit less chaotic.
Yeah, it’s good for quick deployment, although kind of ugly
agreed! It was terrifying watch kids cross at the end of allbright near the tim hortons with 4 lanes of traffic.
They have them in Secord, but they are poorly utilized and mostly there to stop people from parking close to corners near the school/playground.
If the NIMBY’s got their way here, they would use a combination of these, speed bumps, and “speed tables” to slow traffic speeds to under 10kph.
Damn nimbys and their…. Stopping children from getting ran over by maniacs.
No, they want to prevent the flow of traffic entirely or slow it to the point that people sit in bumper to bumper traffic until they can leave the area.
Why?
It's a Street Labs project (you can find the other neighborhoods at the second link below too, and the engagement summaries):
https://engaged.edmonton.ca/ritchiestreetlab
https://www.edmonton.ca/transportation/traffic_safety/vision-zero-street-labs
Thanks for the link!
I'm so glad to see this. When I first moved here I made the mistake of treating this as two lanes once then realised my error. Still see it with some frequency but hopefully no more
A raised intersection is a better solution here. Vertical deflection, traffic calming, increases visibility for people who walk, roll and bike.
For sure, but this is a welcome improvement that was implemented in a few hours.
This is likely what will be done when the whole 76ave renewal takes place.
I hope it's awesome when it is done. That place is alive with folks on the weekends now and so much wasted space is allocated to vehicles and vehicle storage.
There should be much more space allocated for humans, places to sit, enjoy, gather, walk. It's a bustling area that is limited by the current road corridor.
I live a few blocks away. It’s busy every day, year round. Every neighbourhood should have something like this. It’s criminal not to. We walked to Biera when it was -40 in January and it was full. Perfect vibes. I can’t wait for the 76ave improvements to happen.
Also the liquour store has the next best (to Sherbrooke) non-alcohol selection that I've seen! I've lived here for 11 years and I LOVE how awesome it has become around here.
I hope they ditch that parking lot on the south west corner & expand the area!
Long-term vision was to turn that into a park. I definitely think there’s some apprehension because of how full that lot can be on weekends, but the path forward is ripping the bandaid off. People will figure it out, and a useable space is better than a lot for ~30 cars
Totally, this applies to so many of the pedestrian/retail areas of the city. People will figure it out, especially with wide MUP's and bike lanes, and the already plentiful on-street parking. Incentivize what we want, not what we're trying to get away from.
Personally I'd rather see more commercial stuff there. There are lots of parks and greenspace in the neighbourhood but anything that can keep people from getting into their cars to go somewhere else to buy something is a win for that neighbourhood and the idea of 15 minute gulags, er, walkable cities.
The more third spaces that people can enjoy year round and businesses that can provide affordable food and services the better.
That Crown liquor store is great. I used to avoid it as it kinda looks like the type of liquor store that people leave while swigging from bottles in brown paper bags, but a couple years ago I popped in on a whim and was very impressed with the craft beer selection they had. The east side Sherbrooke is still my top choice, but the Ritchie Crown is a close second.
For sure. I suspect this is the city’s traffic lab at work.
I'm hoping the 76 street renewal gets a bit more commonsense put into it. The extremely wide bike lanes + wide sidewalks, removal of parking and trees, will make it difficult for home owners and those who have to drive.
And before everyone jumps down my throat for bike lanes and sidewalks, have a look at how much wider they want them to be over the norm.
Man, you can’t cover a bad take by describing it as “common sense” come on. “Common sense” taken at face value is what created car-centric cities and they are a pox. They are loud and noisy and dangerous and de-emphasize people to a staggering degree. Now some folks want to try something different, in a residential neighbourhood, and people are still like “better think about the cars! The spaces for pedestrians are too wide!” Get out of here. We yield so much of our world to motor vehicles. “Common sense.” Grow up.
I like to enjoy that neighborhood (and beer street) but riding my bike or taking transit isn't a good use of time given where I live. We want ALL forms of transportation to be viable, and I believe that Richie is a great community to push that into but the city is reaching a bit.
8m dual wide bike lanes compared to the standard 3.5m is overkill, especially in a neighborhood that has narrow streets as it is. Again, we want all methods of transportation to be viable. And cutting down 100 year old trees for 8m bike lanes seems like a crummy idea.
But hey, if you're the type of person I'll be seeing in Richie, maybe I'll have to spend less time there. God forbid someone has a different opinion than you do.
We want ALL forms of transportation to be viable
How does this make driving not viable? You just want it to be as convenient as possible. Deprioritizing cars on a small stretch in a residential area does nothing to change the viability of driving to it. If you really like the place, you’ll figure it out. You’ll find a spot off 76ave, or you’ll park in Ritchie industrial and walk the four blocks. We can be more creative with public space. We shouldn’t default to moving traffic as quickly as possible or parking because some people value a specific convenience over space for people.
You’re framing this as a competition of fairness. You only think it’s not fair because our communities are dominated by cars. Any deviation from this seems like an attack on the promised freedom and convenience of traveling by car, no matter how insignificant the change. Same arguments are made about bike lanes, and it holds no water! 3000+ km of maintained roads in Edmonton. Less than 0.5% of that is bike lanes. We can change a bit to make communities more livable, and I think the cars will be just fine.
My main point is that 8M wide bike lanes, at the sacrifice of 100 year old trees, reduced parking, and smaller yards on properties isn't what the neighborhood needs. Especially when 3.5M wide lanes, that could still have traffic calming measures, similar lot size, and the 100 year old trees would be more than enough.
Raised intersections cost $$$. Maybe raised crosswalks.
Fucking finally. I live right next to this and the number of people who have no idea how a 4 way stop works is mind blowing. A month ago a car got t-boned and ran over a garbage can only about 1 car length away from the businesses on that corner, lines busy at Kind Ice cream. Could have been really bad.
It’s not just 4-way stops, I encounter people almost daily who don’t know how a 2-way stop works
Hey All!
I was part of the group who reached out to the City to get the Street Lab going.
Hope these temporary measures lead to improved safety over the next number of months!
(There will be a permanent(!) bicycle triggered traffic light installed at Whyte and 97th St, but other interventions will be temporary.)
There will be an opportunity to provide feedback after the completion of the project so please look out for that in the future.
Based on how the temporary interventions perform and the feedback received, the City will then look to implement more permanent measures in the future.
Thanks all!
It’s a good move and I’m glad to see it. I can think of a few more places these could be used too.
More interventions will be implemented soon! All laid out in the posted Street Labs plan. The team at the City took a comprehensive view of the whole neighbourhood and incorporated a lot of community feedback. (They said there was more feedback for the Ritchie Street Lab than any other project to date.) Should hopefully make for safer streets in Ritchie!
That intersection is in need of a traffic light. Drivers are so worried about who had the right of way, they forget to look for pedestrians.
Doesn't need lights. If it's renovated to modern standard that bumps out the sidewalk at the crosswalk to get rid of that pseudo turn lane it'll be fine.
Traffic lights serve the functions of increasing vehicle traffic flow and speeds, while reducing pedestrian priority; neither of which are positive changes to this intersection.
What about pedestrian safety? I've seen multiple near pedestrian collisions as vehicles pull out without looking. It's an intersection with busy pedestrian traffic on 3 of 4 corners during the summer, I imagine it would only get worse if the SW lot is rebuilt.
You've said it yourself it is a busy pedestrian intersection. Traffic lights are vehicle infrastructure, not pedestrian infrastructure. Pedestrians are very frequently hit by vehicles while in an intersection, at a traffic light, with the right of way in Edmonton.
If we want to improve pedestrian safety here, the four way stop is a perfectly reasonable piece of traffic control - it requires vehicles to stop. That is the safest speed for vehicles approaching the intersection.
Pedestrian-focused infrastructure here could take the form of what they're already doing, narrowing the lane. Extended curbs so that pedestrians can begin "crossing" without leaving the curb would also be a great addition. A speed table, or raised crosswalks would also substantially increase pedestrian safety and would be a good change.
I'm not saying this intersection can't be improved, I'm saying that a traffic light is a regression when considering the neighbourhood goals of this intersection.
Exactly, I hope the final permanent solution is something like this, but more attractive.
If we want to improve pedestrian safety here, the four way stop is a perfectly reasonable piece of traffic control - it requires vehicles to stop.
The problem with a four-way stop vs. a traffic light is that just about every driver fully stops for a red light (well, that number seems to diminish by the day, but still); whereas MANY drivers treat a stop sign as "I'm just going to kind of roll through here, I think I'm good." I can't even begin to count how many people I see just completely disregarding a stop sign.
At least they are getting speed to almost zero. A light would bring crossing speed to 40km/hr. I don’t know for a fact, but I suspect pedestrian collisions are higher when vehicles are turning right at a red light vs four way stop, as the drivers are looking over their left shoulder instead of in front of them.
This!! They don’t turn at all to look for pedestrians, they just look towards the oncoming traffic and and then zoom into the intersection when they see an opportunity. It’s so dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists
If you're under the impression Edmonton drivers come to a stop before right on red... My sweet, summer child.
Seriously 😅 put all of the signs and lights that you want, there will always be someone not paying attention or caring
The problem with traffic lights though is people speeding up to go through a yellow. Will create more impatient drivers. Also not efficient for pedestrians having to wait for the light to change, and I’m sure will produce more jaywalking.
Only way the traffic lights help here is gives clear instruction on who is "next". Having been here, when its really busy, pedestrians are constantly crossing which makes it a bit tricky for when cars can go. The ice cream line can get real long sometimes.
Would a traffic circle work better? I love traffic circles!
I find crossing a traffic circle as a pedestrian to be one of the times I am legit concerned I’ll be hit by a car.
I think a traffic circle is a hard sell here - traffic circles are again about the efficient flow of vehicles. It is possible that an extremely tight traffic circle with raised pedestrian crossings could work, but given that this is a major bus route, ETS usually pushes back on circles that feel tight for their 40-footers.
And if you want an example of a neighbourhood "murder-circle" - look no further than just a few blocks south in Hazeldean at 97st and 66ave. It's a very wide, big traffic circle that requires someone walking to take their life into their own hands to cross.
Drivers in traffic circles are generally focused on the other vehicles and more pedestrians, can create a dangerous situation with such a high volume of pedestrians.
Valid point. I wish drivers here were more confident with the circles
It’s a small space, so I think at best you’d end up with a gob of concrete in the middle of the intersection with a planter on top — not an actual roundabout.
Roundabouts and peds are complicated. They can improve safety for peds, but it really depends on some details. Roundabouts aren’t great for people with visual impairments and often forces people to walk further than a traditional 4 way. Some of the car/ped interactions are from this — people won’t walk as far, take a “shortcut” and suddenly there’s a person where a driver isn’t expecting in a relatively high cognitive demand situation.
Not here I don't think. Cars at a crawl or gone completely should be the main goal with any changes.
I go to Ritchie market all the time and have never been concerned as a pedestrian, I just make sure to stop and make eye contact with the drivers as pedestrians should. I do see lots of people jaywalking to get to their cars, I don’t think a traffic light is a solution.
oh I'm the opposite, I'm always a little stressed as both a driver and a pedestrian.
It’s busy but if you’re paying attention it shouldn’t be stressful. Im more stressed seeing people dart out across the street between cars because they don’t want to walk to the proper crosswalk and use it.
Also drivers being a little bit stressed is a good thing. They're operating a very dangerous machine around some very vulnerable fleshbags.
If you're stressed, you're being cautious.
It's the stressed drivers that I've seen be the issue at this intersection. Once the right of way is broken by a pedestrian, (not saying it's the pedestrian's fault) drivers start doing weird things, mainly entering the intersection early and then speeding up if another vehicle starts to go or getting frustrated and trying to squeeze through a gap in pedestrians. Chaos is a bad thing for pedestrian safety and a steady flow of pedestrians at that intersection creates confusion, chaos and stress.
The solution is better drivers, but city engineers need to design intersections with bad drivers in mind.
It's interesting that you highlight chaos as a bad thing because there's a pretty significant and rising school of thought that if you want to increase pedestrian safety introducing a little bit of chaos is actually a good thing.
I don't know if Edmonton is ready for one of those truly shared, no-rules, everyone negotiates with everyone else spaces like exist in the Netherlands (let's be honest, probably not), but there certainly are lessons to be taken away.
I don't know if Edmonton is ready for one of those truly shared, no-rules, everyone negotiates with everyone else spaces like exist in the Netherlands
Honestly I don't think so, all it takes is one driver to act selfishly and the system fails, Edmonton seems to have a lot of that type of driver.
I disagree, stressed drivers make mistakes. You can be cautious and aware without stress. Pay attention, don’t rush and don’t be distracted by things like phones, loud music, GPS, etc.
Hard disagree
Any reasoning? Everytime I've been around there, it's busy with pedestrians and vehicles cutting each other off or pulling out in front of a pedestrian.
Yes, just that it would increase traffic speeds through the intersection. That would be worse for the businesses and customers that enjoy this space. Traffic lights are also ugly. I’d prefer something attractive. The best thing in my opinion would be a raised intersection with a narrow crossing, and the stop edge pushed back for improved visibility. But this is an improvement and I appreciate it.
Yeah imagine the amount of people trying to speed through the yellow light because they don’t want to sit at the red.
And people turning right on red are especially dangerous for pedestrians
That's not why they forget. People are just shit drivers.
Is there a point where an intersection can have too many pedestrians? Should it be a scramble crosswalk with lights?
Crown cannabis just to the left of that intersection has some of the best prices in the city.
Good to know!
This is such a busy pedestrian & vehicle intersection, so this is great
Typical Edmonton aesthetic.
Surprised they were able to install those on arguably one of the worst quality streets I’ve seen in Edmonton. The hill into the ravine is a 80% chance of damaging struts/shocks/pegs
Just look at the picture. It basically forces you into the potholes.
Can’t drive if you fuck your car up in the potholes. It’s working!
Oh that's what those are for. Saw a bunch lined along the side of the road in Northmount last night along 87st.
Idylwylde could use this
I've been seeing these more often around town lately. I do believe they work. They had one on 72ave near the unviersity before but they removed it because apparently too many accidents were happening there lol. They installed it again just a few weeks ago
Looks proactive Y not a round about
I prefer this. It’s better for a busy pedestrian intersection like this. Drivers are expected to fully stop.
War on Cars!!
lol, sorry people don't understand sarcasm. This was well placed.
This sounds like you’re complaining, but your post history shows you do cycle a lot. For anyone else who comes along:
Cars are inefficient, pollute more than other modes of transportation (air and noise) and cost more for the taxpayer because roads are really expensive. Worst of all, they’re dangerous! Glad the city is putting these up everywhere, and hopefully planning future city design around better modes of transportation.
« Not just bikes » and « Adam Something » are good YouTube channels for people who might want to learn more about city planning and why cars suck.
I'm pretty sure you're on the same team. Also check out the war on cars podcast, it's awesome.
Hard to tell how much calming is from barricades and how much is from potholes.
I love how they close lane close to center line, to make drivers use lanes with the big craters there 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆
I don’t know how you guys live there
Quality 2/10 Idea 8/10 Could ot be even better 100%
Price: 3$
If people like them I’d assume that they’ll implement quality versions (hopefully with plants!) or when repaving narrow the road or elevate the crossing
100% they are cheap and i hope to see more. Im just saying they arent the nicest
Hopefully it doesn’t have any unintended issues for the firehall down the street.
City placed some of these in the Allard neighborhood too. They seem to actually work quite well.