I (37M) am a little exhausted of always being the brother / best friend to all of the women in my life - all around (30F) to (40F) -, and am starting to realize that I may never move past that. Is there anything I can do? Or should I just accept my fate?

Start calling in favours. All these girls you’re close to and who look up to you have friends. Mention you’re looking and let them set you up.

this is 100% possible to change. It is not going to happen by being a "nicer" person.

The actual change is to be unafraid to lean into your own desire, and stop looking for approval to exist as yourself with that desire. If you wait for a woman to lead by telling you it is OK to want her, it's generally never going to happen. She won't see you as a prospect.

Your body will tell you when it's time to act on your desire (by leaning in, saying something, whatever you are inclined to do.) If you are like me, you have a tendency to be in your head and block that until much, much later when you've thought about whether it's OK. By then, it's too late.

Now, when you first act on your desire - and there's nothing wrong with this - you are putting out an invitation, not trying to force someone - you will probably get a lot of rejection. It will feel as if you're going downhill, because acting like big brother gets you a lot of positive feedback. Connecting to your own sexuality will actually create barriers and distance in new and old relationships which take skill and effort to navigate. This distance with women is what will create space for them to desire you. Women don't usually want a man who is moving right up to their space and hiding there, but rather one who occupies his own space and is fully connected to himself, respectful of them, but willing to ask them to try something new - to lead them to a place they aren't yet.

You need to communicate my guy. State your intentions.

If you treat someone like just a friend, that’s what they’re going to expect. If you’re attracted to someone, let them know.

There’s no need to pretend or hide your feelings. Don’t change yourself into what you think they’re more comfortable with. That’s disingenuous.

If you think tweaking something about your looks or personality will suddenly change women’s perception of you and you’ll become like prey doused in pheromones, that’s a pipe dream.

Just ask a girl out. If she declines, fair enough. Try someone else. You can do it.

It is not necessary to be a bro or a dick to get a romantic relationship. But it is necessary to take the initiative and deliberately generate attraction in the person you are on a date with. This isn’t easy but it’s a skill like any other. The more you practice the better you’ll get. You have a leg up on the competition because you are intelligent and sensitive. Use those powers to gauge your success moment by moment and adjust. If all else fails ask lots of questions, people love to talk about themselves. Slowly make the questioning more flirtatious. If you can’t think of flirtatious questions, the internet has lists. Learn them so they are in your toolbox. Bye bye friend zone, hello future!

You need to stop trying to go friends to lovers. It’s rarer than movies make you think. My first love was my best friend for many years first. My current love I met with the intentions of dating. Go out and date with clear intentions about what you’re looking for.

I was in your exact boat. I give off a clear “best friend” kind of energy and not a romantic one. I always had an easier time making friends with girls, and sometimes I would want more from some girls, but none of them saw me that way. For me (dunno if it’s the same for you) this is because I’m just not all that outwardly masculine. I have a lot of classically feminine (but also amazing) traits.

Now I’m married to an amazing and beautiful woman I love for 7 years!

The way I got out of this rut was to stop seeing the friends that I made as potential romantic partners. It wasn’t gonna happen that way. They already saw me differently. But I could absolutely hit it off with strangers - putting my “I’m interested in you” signal on immediately and not trying to be friends first. When people saw me as an interested potential partner first, and friend second, it all came much more naturally. And after the initial meeting phase… that’s when people like us really shine in a relationship. All those things you might be worrying about holding you back suddenly make you the best boyfriend your partner has ever had.

It also happens to be the case that your girl friends are ABSOLUTELY the best possible wingmen. Being friends with girls is a great way to help you meet other girls that might be into you.

You got this. Stay confident in who you are and put yourself out there.

You need to decide from day one if you want to be friends or more. And pursue it hard. If you sit on the fence you'll always fall to the friend side.

Don't pursue anyone you currently know. Move on. They are friends only from now on.

Id highly recommend if you have multiple friends who are girls you talk to them and let them know you'd like to be setup. They will have girlfriends and coworkers looking for a man. Once you do start dating , don't be friends be a lover , and a boy friend. Don't try to be nice to keep them around if it doesn't work out onto the next date. Any who won't set you up, are keeping you on that fence , drop them as friends.

Ive never had a single women treat me like this in my life , after a date if they wanted to be friends I moved on. I was not looking for friends I was looking for a partner.

Now as for dating, date one should always include a kiss / physical touching , and possibly sex. If it does not , then you can try one more date, and attempt a kiss, if you are denied then you move on instantly, you're not looking for a friend.

I’d honestly say take this summer and focus on yourself and your body. Eat right and get on a gym routine. Think about the type of guy that typically naturally attracts women. Be that guy. Fix your style, walk with your head up and back straight. You have the massive advantage of being caring, sensitive and funny. Also a huge amount of experience connecting with woman. Go to the gym get jacked and the women that have brushed you off may take a second look.

If you're genuinely on good terms with these women, why don't you feel comfortable bringing up dating with them? As in, asking their perspective on how to meet women or meeting their friends? I've set up a few of my female friends with my male friends and vice versa. Is a reason they see you as such a brother because you refuse to discuss love and relationships with them?

All my relationships originated from friendships, I don't buy into "the dating" idea, where you meet someone with a preconception that you consider to "be" with that stranger.

It is not yours or their fault if you are not attracted to each other. Think of a friend, who is not attractive to you, let's assume you are straight, and that is some dude. What can he do or say for you to feel a deep love towards him? He could write exactly the same post as you, asking what he is doing wrong.

It is alright to be not attractive to your friend, and it is also alright to be not attracted to your friend. And usually If that is the case there is nothing they can say or do, to change that. And that is alright

Some day it will just happen, that you will find someone you have a good relation with, and you will be also attracted to each other at the same time.

I think you just got friendzoned. Although I don't think you should date women over 30 if you want to start a family. It might be best for you to travel or meet younger women elsewhere. The more you stick to a routine, things will never change.

This one's easy. As a big brother and best friend myself, I'll now be one to you: simply stop. People prey on how you're built as a person, feeling entitled to your energy. THEY ARE NOT. You give that to who needs it most, YOU. From here out, you ain't put nothin in the bank, you ain't takin nothin out, feel me? At 37, the only people who should be getting that energy from you are potential partner(s) and actual relatives and friends with whom you have happy healthy interactions. Anybody else can go fuck themselves. They wanna argue and condemn you about it? Not only are they proving my point tell'em I said it and to come see me about it; I PROMISE it'll stop.

We gotta to learn how to flirt and build that sexual attention

I am/always was this person.

If anything it helped my chances with women. All my friends always vouched for me with their friends/girls on a night out and it generally worked favourably when other women saw that I had women in my life as close friends who respected me and I respected them

If you arent confortable around guys its not a problem with all dudes its an issue with you finding guys you like to hang out with. Also talk to your friends and ask them to wingwoman you or ask for advice, that what friends are for

Above all else continue to try to be the person that you would want to date.

Your friends are your friends mate. If you want an intimate relationship with someone you need to make that clear. Leave your friends alone, they are nice people who want you in their lives because you seem to be quite a decent and respectful person which is actually fantastic.

I think you should ask your female friends for help with finding an intimate partner, advice on fashion and how they would like to be approached. Dating apps might be the way to go also (as your intentions are immediately clear), get your friends to help with that too.

I honestly think the fact women trust and appreciate you as a person is a huge green flag and you will make the right lady very happy

I was close friends with everyone I’ve ever started dating before were started dating. I don’t understand why anyone would ever want to date someone they’re NOT friends with. There’s too much risk and responsibility involved to do it with someone you don’t know or trust at all.

In my experience, if a single woman is willing to spend hours and hours alone with you, she probably enjoys your company and will be willing to date you. When I realise I am romantically interested in a friend I usually ask them specifically “how about we go on a date some time?” This communicates romantic interest in the least threatening way possible. They will probably say yes. You can escalate gradually from there.

Some guys give off asexual energy, seems like you do.

Women generally love a guy who is in touch with their feelings and able to have deep chats not just a laugh, If you’re also decent looking as you said, you should be a great success. If you’re not having much luck is probably because those women don’t feel that energy from you, if you’re not making a move they won’t know you’re attracted to them. You say you’re tired from always being the big brother / best friend, but maybe subconsciously you feel comfortable in that role so that’s what you’re displaying.

Also, don’t overthink it, shoot your shot, as you’ve said you’re not getting any younger 😉

I would also have this conversation with your female friends, just ask them for their input. They should give you honest answers and more on point too.

Malician and a few others hit the nail on the head. My take is pretty obvious and blunt: despite having an emotional connection with these women they don’t see you as a potential partner. They don’t feel a “spark” or sexual connection to you. At this age 30-40 women tend to know what it is that they want and you don’t have that. I’d just straight up ask them why it is that they don’t see you as a potential partner.

If you have a lot of girl friends just tell them you are looking for something serious, they will move mountains to set you up with someone that is aware from the get go, I’m sure all of them have 2-3 friends or relatives looking too

Hmm a feminine yes man that doesn’t like hanging out with other men cause essentially they are to “toxic” is surprised straight women don’t view him the same romantically as the other men he doesn’t like to hang out with hmm I wonder what is the issue is.

Ask your friends to teach you how to flirt. You need to send signals that you are interested romantically and also learn when your signals are not welcomed and when they are.

You probably should read "No More mr. Nice Guy" if you haven't already, and work your way up from there

Ask them if they know somebody who they think would be your type, and maybe if they could help introduce you in a way.

Genuinely have you tried asking a girl out on a date? Ideally prior to becoming their best friend

Have you tried getting on apps/dating sites? That way, both parties are going into it knowing that they're looking for a relationship, and you remove some of what you seem to be finding difficult, i.e. misreading intentions, coming across as creepy, ruining friendships etc. If the expectations are there from both parties at the outset, then your good qualities might come across as good features in a partner, rather than features which push you towards friend rather than partner

I don't believe friendzoning is as much of a thing as people like to say it is, and I think women in particular are open to dating a friend because it's generally safer.  BUT, they are also afraid of ruining a friendship by letting feelings get involved and the perceived risk is high when they value their friendship with you, which seems to be your situation as a person who gets along with women well.

Like another commenter said, ultimately you'll have to learn to express your desire, but you'll also need to learn how to communicate it both verbally and physically in a way that conveys safety and low-risk.  And the real hard part is that you'll have to be totally cool when they reject you and be able to maintain the friendship unchanged.  If you can be all those things comfortably, many will probably be able to sense that safety in you.

The paradox is, the safety can often come with a certain unseriousness on your part.  If you're obviously too into them the risk is higher.  For example maybe express your interest more like curiosity (ie hey have you ever thought of us being together?) as opposed to committed desire (ie I've been dreaming of being with you for years!). 

I am a woman who has close, loving relationships with male friends who I consider my brothers. It would never, ever occur to me to consider any of them romantically, simply because we don't have that kind of relationship, and I've known most of them since we were kids. I can objectively see that they are physically attractive and have plenty to offer a woman emotionally, but I can also see those things about my dad, or my boss, or my uncle, or my biological brothers, you know? I can't think of my friends sexually any more than I can think of my actual brothers that way. That doesn't mean it's impossible for a woman to develop romantic feelings for a guy friend, but the hurdle exists. I'd caution you against pursuing any of your current friends for that reason, you need to be trying to cultivate relationships with new women who don't already have an established relationship with you.

Women are often hesitant to make the first overtures of romance. We're conditioned to believe it makes us look desperate and needy, or masculine and aggressive. If you want something more than friendship, or want to prevent a potential romantic partner from slipping into the friend box, you're going to need a more aggressive approach. Make your intentions clear from the very beginning. You can certainly take things slow and get to know someone, but you need to be flirty and talking in clear language about what you're looking for in a relationship. You don't have to be friends with someone if you don't want to, so if a woman tells you she's not romantically interested you can politely disengage with no harm done and no hard feelings.

I can tell you that having lots of female friends is the biggest, brightest green flag a man is capable of waving. It shows that you are safe and trustworthy, probably emotionally intelligent and mature, and not a player. It's a very attractive feature to any woman who isn't immature and jealous. Use it to your advantage. Have your girlfriends play wingman and vouch for you with their friends. Go out together, meet a woman, and bring her over to introduce her to your friends. Invite her to sit and chat with your group. A guy at a bar with a group of women feels safer than a guy sitting alone, and it'll be easier for the both of you to extricate yourselves if you realize there's no spark, since you'll both have other people to talk to instead of just sitting awkwardly together.

I’ve always had a lot of girl friends (platonic women as friends) and many girlfriends (romantic partners), as especially now at 32, I mostly only have platonic women friends.

I’ve always enjoyed the more nuanced and deeper conversations I can have with women, over the many men friends I’ve had that never want to improve or are just on the surface level.

In addition to myself being more ‘feminine’ with certain aspects in my life like something as simple as skin care, where I’d have males make fun of me before. Those are obviously the wrong kind of people, but I just always found myself to be more relatable and comfortable as my own man around women.

I love to give advice to my friends, and I’m pretty darn good at it, but I wind up in a similar situation as yourself. I’m really only seen as that kind of friend, and they don’t want to lose that, so it ends up staying that way.

I’ve distanced myself from many of these people nowadays, because I cannot and will not bear the burden of other peoples problems anymore like that, especially when I need advice or need to talk, and it’s not reciprocated hardly at all.

I try to mostly focus on myself now, not be so available to these people, and trying to find new people who are able to have two way conversations and communications. And hang out with my male friends more again.

But I do feel the way I am, I probably will end up alone or having to settle and I won’t do that.

Sounds like you put yourself in the friend zone and can't get out of it. I have the impression that you act or are too feminine (deep talk, in touch with feelings, etc.) and they see you as one of the sisters and not as partner material.

What you want and need is just as valid as what the women in your life want or need (or what you think they want and need).

You are allowed to pursue what you want, I have no doubt you would do it respectfully as you are extremely careful not to offend others, to the point of your own detriment.

How much of this is about making them happy vs your own fear of rejection and feeling that you have let someone down?

Pursue what you want, make no apologies for it, its not a crime to pursue a love interest and have it not work out. Your female friends will find another male friend - you arent the only nice guy in the sea.

If you talk to women about yourself, they will consider you a friend and good to hang out with since they can analyse you and help you with psychological stuff and that creates a kind of sister-brother relationship or a friendship. If you let women talk to you about themselves, they will consider you a potential partner. I made that change in how I approach women on dates and when hanging out and I have not been friend zoned once since then, they always want to take it to next level after a few dates/days of talking about themselves and me just listening and inciting them to talk more. XD

You seem like a deep person and Overthinker. One thing I’ll tell you the older you get the better things. Just try try the best you can to continue to work on yourself.

Also from my experience as soon as you say “no more!” Things will change 100%. You’ll be surprised.

Also on some level you’re being preyed on with these friendships at the end of the day. Ask them to help you with relationship stuff, see what happens…

Good luck and this take so much humility to even ask these questions and get help. This is the one area in society where you don’t have 100 videos online to encourage you, so, if you actually work on yourself, you’re kind of on your own.

I just saw myself while reading your post. I am exactly same as you. Every woman sees me as a great friend and im sick of it.

Raised by a single mother OP?

I read through a few comments, and I think that the situation you're in can be really difficult to navigate... I've got lots of opinions on stuff like this especially being on the opposite end (29f with guy friends who have confessed feelings for me) but I'll try to keep it short and sweet 😅

In general if you are feeling tired of being that guy to all your female friends its okay to set boundaries and for future relationships/friendships to not even let yourself become that guy. As a woman I can admit it feels amazing to have a safe guy friend to talk with and have around but it is also really easy to unintentionally take advantage of their kindness and openness. Setting boundaries can be difficult especially if you feel like it makes you less of a nice guy, but i think sometimes in order to prioritize yourself and your happiness you can't always do what is going to make other people happy (even if it is changing something they are used to you doing or being for them).

I don't think you should give up, or accept whatever fate you think is in store. I think you should worry less about what people will think about you or how they perceive you and genuinely pursue your own happiness and fulfillment. You can be a nice guy and still prioritize yourself. As a side note - being too accessible can make women view you as "safe" and therefore easy to friendzone...which is so dumb but it is what it is.

Put yourself in the friendzone
Be surprised when women have you in their friendzone

Are you acoustic

Best advice I can give is that you need to decide going forward what you want out of each new relationship.

If you are interested in just being friends with a woman, keep doing what you’re doing.

If you’re interested in a romantic and/or sexual relationship with a woman then tell her early on what you’re looking for. If she doesn’t want the same thing as you do then tell her good luck finding someone else and move on to the next opportunity.

If you’re happy with the friendships you have, don’t abandon them, but don’t put as much effort into them as you put towards finding the type of relationship you want.

I am telling you right now, you have been lied to your entire life. What you think you know about women is false. You have been systematically misled.

You can keep going down this path and remain confused, alone, and dejected. That is a choice you can make.

Alternatively, you can reevaluate the assumptions you’ve made about what drives a woman to be attracted to a man. The you can revisit your theories and refine them into something more aligned with reality.

You’ve been going about this the wrong way your entire life.

There are behaviors, appearances, and character traits that are attractive to women, and there are behaviors, appearances, and character traits that are repulsive to women, that are the opposite of attractive.

It’s absolutely critical to understand the structure of these sets and what constitutes them.

You’re not stupid, you’ve just been lied to.

Good luck.

You sound pretty perfect. Kind, polite, educated, self-aware, responsible and dependable? Your maturity may actually end up as a disservice to yourself. Do you find that you could almost always help anybody and everybody? Because that’s spreading yourself too thin. I read a bit of your replies here and there, and I felt that you have a very good sense of boundary in terms of relationships. As a person, you’re well-grounded, mindful, and you don’t let people easily influence you, sway you, push or pull you in. You’re a rock that people can trust, like friend/family instead of a mysterious stranger, which I think is great for what you’re looking for. Perhaps you’re just having a hard time taking it to the next level after establishing a solid basis of friendship? You’re not doing anything wrong, but I do believe you give more than you get. So how do you interact with someone you like? Do you express yourself in a situation where you’re really into someone, regardless of the other person’s interest? I’m asking you to consider how accommodating you are to others versus your own needs. The key to a relationship is being the answer for the problems that people face, instead of helping them find the answer themselves.

If you are mates with that many women, surely someone within their friend circle is single and possibly interested in the same stuff you are. If you go that route and they just want to be mates, that's when you just say something like "sorry I'm not interested in having more mates" and respect yourself enough to follow through with it.

Maybe I'm misreading how you are coming across. But you are sounding like an pushover if you struggle to get women to see you as anything more, yet you said nothing about what you tried to even get out of that situation.

Like I don't know why you stop looking after yourself because your mates treat you as said mates/brother. If you aren't happy with them treating you as such, that it starts to negativity affect your life that much. Why the hell do you even keep them as mates? Doesn't sound like those friendships are doing much to improve your life.

No More Mr. Nice Guy - Robert A. Glover

Hey Man I have been with you Can you ask your women friends look I am pretty serious about finding someone so you have some single friends who you know can vibe well with me

Thing is that you actively want to push forward the notion that you are looking for something deeper and not remain platonic

You’ve lived your life seeking friendships with women instead of romantic relationships. This is the result.

You’ll need to change that if you want to date someone.

Meet new women and don't be friends with them. It's pointless the have a loading screen of friendship if you ultimately want a relationship. Don't ask women for dating advice.

For any situation that sounds like this, I have always prescribed just talking. Get it out there. They are just as good as mind reading as the rest of us. Unfortunately for me I have the opposite issue.....so take what I say with a grain of salt....

Stop trying to be friends with women bro. I mean you can but it sounds like you have enough. Don’t wait for their interest just focus on letting em know you’re interested and if you see they’re clearly not just back off. Like let your intentions be known. You’re doing yourself a disservice if you would like a certain relationship but you ignore yourself to please the woman. What you want is just as important as what she wants or if not more because your decisions affect your life and happiness.

You can be both a good friend and a good boyfriend. If you ever do movie night together, watch "When Harry Met Sally". It makes for excellent conversation.

Rejection is part of the game...but so long as you're respectful to her needs & wants and her the same for you, it's not the end of the world.

First and foremost, you need to put yourself first. Like a lot of what others have said, you are the most important when it comes to considering wellbeing. Having female friends you can talk to is nice, but you need to be honest about your intentions from the get-go. I started caring more and feeling better after going to the gym. That sounds cliche, but developing more hobbies, like going to the gym, can better help you become a more interesting person. Also, this is pretty obvious, and I think you know this, but don't treat women like shit (i.e. watch Andrew Tate consistently). It sounds like you're on the right track because you have female friends, so the next step is to be clear and honest with them about how you feel. Hopefully, I was able to help.

I think there is a natural advantage in relating to women here. You are trusted more readily than some painful arrogant men. Why not play it to your advantage ? The world moves in accordance with your expectations of it … perhaps think about your Day Game and begin the flirt earlier, rather than just be the big brother good listener.

Stop settling for superficial relationships. You deserve more.

You don't have to friends with someone if you don't want to. I've always gotten around with women really well, but if I've met someone I wanted more with I'd ask them out and if they turned me down, I'd keep them at a distance to minimize any bad vibes. So I guess just don't take the role of a brother / best friend if you don't want it? And make a move if you have feelings for someone, better to do it sooner rather than later.

IMO all the guys who complain about "friendzone" only have themselves to blame. Everyone wants friends and people they can trust. If you want to be that person to someone, fine they'll probably really like you. If you feel you're unwittingly in that position just stop it, you don't have to be anyones best friend or a shoulder to cry on if it's making you feel uncomfortable.

Not sure if it's relevant, but as a recovering addict, one of the things we were encouraged to do was to work on relationships with members of our own sex. Obviously this isn't just an addict thing but it's where I heard it and I think generally speaking, one of the avenues on having a healthy lifestyle is having healthy relationships with members of you're own sex.

I know it's tricky at first but I'd say it's worth it. I think guy on guy friendships obviously have a different dynamic but they are a little more honest and whilst, to some extent, harder work initially, probably worth working on if you're looking to improve as a person.

Not just a male thing btw, think this advice is general across the board.

You don't build attraction by trying to please a woman and boy are you doing a lot of that.

You don't build attraction by being a 'safe place' for women and monitoring your every thought.

You won't believe me but you're getting exactly what you deserve because you have fully discarded your masculinity.

I was like you. A lot of female friends. I am a sensitive guy. I realised women liked me a lot, but couldn't see me as a intimate partner. It took me ten years to really man-up. I changed my body and spirit. At 30 found the love of my life. You got this!

Hey, if they are not hooking you up with their “friends” you are not their brither/friend.

I have my bros since hs, and we all introduced eachother to prospective girls. It’s what friends do. I we were out in the town and anyone of us got lucky, the other didn’t say “you came with me we have to leave together” or some such shit.

Reavaluate your own actions. You are encouraged to be friendly, but if you expect more and you don’t get it, move on

Gotta stop being afraid of being "creepy". Obviously try to make your intentions known, in a respectful way. But don't be afraid of rejection. And don't keep female friends on your life that you have feelings for, that's torture.

I understand this. I used to be exactly the same. Apparently, I was 'too nice'. I still have more female friends than male, but I do have a wife.

As others have said, use your words. On my first date with my wife, I told her I didn't want just another friend. It didn't scare her off. She's still here, my best friend of 30 years.

Good luck, and don't ever give up. We all deserve to be loved.

Read the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy”. It will help you a lot.

Stop having so many female friends. Make moves on women and put your needs first. That's how you do it. If you act like an emotional pillow for people, that's all they will ever see you as.

I want to be friends with more women. I just don’t know how to go about it. I’m not in college anymore

You probably have the wrong male friends. When I'm with my male friends the conversations can get deep and vulnerable.

That sounds frustrating. I totally understand that. Good for you for getting therapy, too, instead of letting it fester and become one of the toxic people who end up attacking women, instead of working with them and being kind and understanding with them.

I'd like to say, as a woman, I appreciate you. It's rare to ha e acquaintances like you, who are interested in more than being friends or the protective big brother type. These are so rare.

Have you tried telling an attractive lady friend that you're interested in being more than friends or philo(brother) love? Was it weird or awkward? Are you afraid of losing the friendship completely, so you don't try?

Are you also on any dating apps? Ones that say more than what you look like, and what you're looking for in a relationship? eHarmony, Match, etc.

If you have similar interests, you can find your people, and possibly develop more than friendships. I admit, with us women, it's hard to know, and some aren't interested in having more than a friendship or big brother relationships. Clicking like that is a difficult chemistry project. It takes time and a formula. It's hard to knit what that formula is.

Maybe you're right in taking a break. Let things happen as they want to.

Good luck and again, thank you for being you, and being vulnerable and being kind to other ladies.

Be more assertive. Less “nice”

Meet girl, ask on date (quickly) you’re not trying to be a pen pal. If she says yes great, if she says no we should be friends you must refuse that offer. If you follow this there’s no way to be stuck in friend zone

honestly i would stop trying to do the friend -> bf thing and use dating apps or some sort of approach where it’s clear your interest is romantic from the start

It sounds like you have a lot of women in your life who despite not being interested in you romantically do care about you and want you to be happy and successful in life. Have you tried opening up to them about the loneliness and depression you are experiencing due to the lack of a meaningful romantic relationship? Have you asked for their help and advice in attracting and courting women you feel a connection with? 

First I think maybe you're trying to hard. You don't want to land a person by trying ya know. You want to find a person by being yourself. That said maybe you should instead broaden your horizons. Find more things you love to do that didn't have to do with women. Find self love and the rest will fall into place. If you must "try" then maybe explore more masculine things that you may enjoy get in touch with that side of yourself. Competition isn't always called for but it is also needed. I think we need a lil friendly, sometimes not so friendly, competition to drive us. To be that to change we need, to drive us to a goal, or even just for our own ego. Be a little selfish take time to find yourself and love that person. As much as some women may love to have intellectual conversation they are gonna be drawn more to that masculinity which isn't always that deep philosophical talk. I know it seems cliche but again find yourself and fall in love with you. Be the best version of you and you will find someone. Maybe you're going for the wing kind of woman but never lay down and just "accept your fate" but also if your friend zoned you're probably not going to be able to crawl out from that with those specific women. If you're seen as a brother/friend you probably always will be. If they put it as "brother" I'm sorry but that's just a nice way of saying "no, never ever" these women aren't for you. Your best bet is to just move in from them unless you genuinely enjoy them as a friend and only a friend. Explore yourself and your interests from that I truly believe you'll not only find yourself but be more attune to your path for finding the right partner. Find your self esteem you'll need it for the journey. A little friendly competition may actually help in that department. Peace and vibes man, there's no fate to except there's a million and one paths you can take go find yours.

Why don't you talk to your friends about wanting to try to date? You have a slew of wing women it sounds like. I disagree with most people saying to tell one of your friends you're interested in them. The WORST thing as a woman is thinking you have an actual friend, and instead they just want in your pants, it's awful. (I literally won't even be friends with straight men anymore unless they show me they're actual friends...Hasn't happened yet lol)

Anyway, I say ask your friends to be wing women! Some women love to match make, let them, but they won't know unless you talk to them about it!

Be confident, take charge. Women prefer an in charge guy. “ Hey Susan, I have reservations for 2 at CheZ Martin’s, a very nice new restaurant. Would you like to go with me on Saturday night?” The worst thing that can happen, is she already has plans. But if so, the response is: I know you’re busy this week, but how about next weekend??” It doesn’t need to be expensive. It could be something simple. What’s your favorite food? I I like Italian, or Mexican, or whatever best. When you find this out. Then I’d like to take you out sometime. Would you like to go out to dinner next Friday or Saturday? Are you interested in going with me.

You're low in traditional masculine traits, assertiveness, dominance, etc etc. Those are what move you from friend zone towards husband zone.

What would you describe as people with "baggage?" Sounds like you may have a bit of that yourself and maybe shouldn't be so quick to judge

Have you tried reading a book called “No more Mr Niceguy”? Please read it atleast once and see if it is applicable to your situation. That book helped me tremendously to build very strong healthy and fulfilling bonds with all the men around me.

It seems like you start your relationships with women as friends and then try to transition from there into something more, is that accurate? If so, maybe start from day 1 as pursuing the woman as you want to have a relationship with them and then go from there. It seems like you're a good guy from what you've shared, but maybe ask your female friends why they wouldn't have a relationship with you to get their perspectives. Since they know you best, I think they could offer some advice. I tend to gravitate to men for friendships as well because I think some guys are easier to befriend than women. Good luck, I'm sure you'll find someone.

Ok so first, don't be so negative, you're at the golden age of male attractiveness. You can date women from 25 to 45 pretty much.

Second, you need to make your intentions clear and put yourself as a potential romantic partner if you want to be considered as such.

Either you haven't made it clear to the women in your life, or they weren't interested.

So just move on and find ones that are available and interested.

Dating apps are a good way to meet girls in a context that makes it clear what your intentions and status is and to develop some more confidence in being playful and flirty in general with other women you meet in your life too.

Hey bro 👍i dont even have much woman friends. You my friend beat me in this context.

Ask the women in your life for advice. As it sounds like you have great social rapport with women, I would guess that an issue is likely how you’re approaching new interactions; you’ve become really well socialized as a friend to women, which they pick up on and are comforted and relieved by, but this is not the type of approach when looking to pick up a romantic partner.

I would ask for advice on ways that you could adjust your approach to be more confident, assertive, and clear about your intentions; provided you’re maintaining the respectful attitude you have with your female friends, there needs to be a shift in how you’re behaving to show that your interest is not platonic, that the language you’re using is clear and upfront about looking for a romantic connection.

I’d also suggest putting in time to find good, decent me to hang out with. A lot of bro-type dudes are exactly as you describe, but I also know so many fun, kind, down to earth, intelligent dudes that often have a great network of really good men and women. It will help you with socialization to see different approaches from different men and how they interact positively with women.

Best of luck to you, friend.

Hey everyone, thanks for all the great advice. I had an update here: https://old.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1d7ex5i/update_i_37m_am_a_little_exhausted_of_always/ ?

I can tell you from the perspective of dating both kinds of guys, when it comes down to a life partner, the majority of women want a protector & provider, especially after our first child... we have enough emotional girlfriends already to have hen parties with.

Dude ....this is such an in detail topic that hours could be spent trying to figure out what exactly you are doing that is repeatedly causing this dynamic with women around you.

There are a million and one things that you could be doing to communicate to women that you are "friend material at best". No great, solid advice can be giving without more piles of information about your situation.

Honestly though, the only short quick advice I can give you is: Stop taking dating advice from women in your life that see you as a friend.

Seriously. Stop listening to your mom. Stop listening to your sister. It clearly hasn't been working for you.

Even assuming they tell you the truth (and they might not, given they dont want to hurt your feelings), while most women know what they are attracted to, they rarely have a clear idea as to WHY. Most women are terrible at picking up women in any way that doesn't rely on tools that you, as a man, won't have available.

Thankfully, female attraction tends to be more complicated and flexible than male's. Meaning there are many things you can do to boost your attraction to at least some women somewhere.

Here is the simple (but not easy) path: Find a single, male friend that is good with women (either dates a lot, or has many women attracted to him), buy him a drink, ask him for help and listen to him. That is it.

Preferably it would be someone that is not traditionally good looking or in a job/role that is inherently attractive - those dudes also tend to not know consciously what they are doing, much less having to explain/teach it.

Ideally it would be a physically average-to-ugly dude, with an average job that is attractive to women. Most people have at least 1 dude like that in their social circle.

Pay special attention if women around him describe him as "charismatic" or "confident". That is what you want. Ask that dude for help, then listen to him.

Best of luck.