Let me preface this: I am leftist and libertarian according to my Political tests. I don’t identify with the USA “progressive” movement (ie “the Squad”). Mainly because of its sympathies/ties to political Islam/Islamism. I cannot bring myself to vote Republican, but I do wonder sometimes how many Republicans are evangelical fundamentalists (or vice versa). I left evangelical christianity 4-5 years ago and also left the Republican party. I now find myself somewhat politically homeless & despise the 2 party system in the USA. Not sure if anyone else is in a similar predicament.
Is it true that fundie Christians are the majority of the Republican party?
Likely due to the conservative brainwashing lies they absorbed while enmeshed in the church.
Probably, it's a weird straw man. Especially since the Democrats are pretty damn Christian. Just not extreme Evangelicals.
It's the linking of enemies. Everything about Evangelicals is about enemies, an extreme version of the battle between good and evil. Everything that doesn't agree with them is evil.
Well said.
Growing up in an evangelical family, no mention was made of Islam, but Catholics were for sure evil and going to hell.
Grew up Southern Baptist; Catholics, Jehovah’s Witnesses, liberal Protestants, Mormons & Muslims all go to hell. Somehow Judaism gets a pass…God’s chosen people something something.
Yes! Southern baptists were treated like, “what the heck are they thinking?” We were part of the Baptist General Conference, clearly something Jesus cared about.
I also find it funny how much pride certain family members take in aspects of where they are from.
Like the local international airport of all things. “It’s just so good!”
Well, first, it’s not actually. Relative to the many I’ve been to, it’s not even in the top 25.
Second, why even bother thinking that?
Such parochial nonsense, yet it’s clearly so important to some people.
People should be forced to travel internationally without other Americans
Better yet, ride the bus. Cross country.
Pointless. It's usually framed as a euro perspective, from those who don't understand the size and geographical differences of the US.
I could drive less than 2 hours and be in Canada, but it would be more like where I am in the US than if I drove 8 hours to another location in the same state.
The only "baptist General conference I read about by thta name was the swedish-American-origin group now called CONVERGE. The Southern convention was formed not jsut to support slavery but also ebcause some people wanted a general organization, which the Northern Baptists didn't adopt until well after the Civil war. Of course there is a Noorth americna cofnernece oif Bpatist denomiantions
The "Judeo-Christian values" myth.
I was the only Methodist at an all Baptist high school - I learned the meaning of the word 'hypocrite' at an early age.
Jews only get a pass because they need to rebuild the temple too bring about the end days. Oddly enough it just might if they do. Just probably won't be what christians have in mind
Before the Holocaust Jews didn’t get a pass. Perhaps a feeling of guilt? Also, the Jews and the their temple and the armageddon plays a huge role. Bottom line, fundamentalists from all religious groups are nuts.
To further clarify, we believed that the Jews were “lost” but that god would let them in because they are his peeps. That’s insulting to nuts!
Grew up WWCoG. Catholics were always referred to as The Great Whore of Babylon. Because of course they were.
Damn
Was raised as a Pentecostal, and thanks to the popularity of Chick-tracts in the 80's, I can confirm. Jack T. Chick had a special hate for Catholics.
I loved getting Chick Tracts placed anonymously on my desk at work...just happened a few times, presumably for expressing a heresy!?
Wow. I thought they were based in Rome?
Me too! What a weird childhood.
Also grew up southern Baptist but was taught modern Jewish people go to hell. Before Jesus being Jewish got you into heaven but after Jesus the rules changed I guess.
The “new Christian law” says Jews go to hell, but at least we get to eat bacon now.
Paul: Don't worry you don't need to be circumcised anymore I promise
Christians 2,000 years later: yeah....but just in case...
Grew up Reformed Baptist and same, NTM all of our martyrs were killed by Catholic theocracies. Trad Catholic SCOTUS judges though? 100% sent by god.
No consistency with these guys, just whatever gets them power at the moment.
Absolutely. It’s the Satanic Panic all over again.
The Satanic Panic never ended. It just got quiet for a while.
When God lies to you, He's very persuasive.
That is my chosen response to evagelevils. So God decieves us with fossild, scientific process and genetics? Another poster nailed it. Biology disproves Adam & Eve.
Cosmology disproves a six day creation.
Genetics disproves intelligent design.
Statistics disproves the power of prayer.
Physics disproves a young Earth.
Geology disproves Noah's flood.
Neurology disproves the soul.
And Anthropology proves that gods are human ideas and can be traced back to the cultures who invented them
discovering that God is our own creation is the greatest heresy
He's the voice in your head telling you want to hear.
God always agrees with me. Every time I ask if I should do something that I want to do, he says yes.
Also the worship of social hierarchies and "leaders". Golden age thinking
Golden age thinking
🤯
The democratic party leadership is actually pretty conservative, Republicans are just so regressive that they seem progressive by comparison.
It just happens that with the two party system, anyone that actually wants to make a positive change basically is forced to run as a Democrat, even if they're way more progressive than the actual leadership.
Also since “the squad” he mentions don’t hold any real clout in the Democratic Party. They’re Dems basically to try to steer the party left but the majority of Dems are still center right. He should feel right at home.
It's why I'm solidly a democrat now. I started looking at what Dems actually support and realized they captured 90% of what I liked as a former republican. The 10% they don't was shit I didn't want anyhow like religion, anti woman, anti poor, etc.
The squad says a lot but they don't get much of what they want. Still good for the discourse
Some members of the Democrats caucus are Muslims, have brown skin and are women, which must equate to all Democrats support Islamic terror groups and post birth abortions
I wonder if he's read what they're trying to achieve or just rejected them because brown Muslims women?
It is just tribalism. OP may have moved away from religion, but that culture of demonizing every "other" is still a very powerful influence on people who recently left the church. I have been there. Hell, I still encounter bullshit thinking i have to reevaluate 25 years after leaving the church. It is indoctrination and it is hard to shake the very foundation upon which you were built in favor of something more sensical.
I think there's a connection between accepting a very top down authoritative view on theology, moral theology specifically, and political authoritarianism. As well as a connection between accepting a literal interpretation of the old testament and conspiratorial thinking.
I mean, when you wander outside of the realm of things that can be shown to be true and enter the headspace of "If it feels right enough it must be true" (aka "faith") you can accept any number of illogical, unwise, unsound, untrue ideas as fact. It has been shown time and time again that, without a sound method of observing the universe, the human mind will fill in the holes with our imagination. Hence our belief in magic and religion and superheroes and gods and angels and demons.
We didn't know why shit happened so we made it up. Now we know why things happen and we don't need the fever dream inventions of an uneducated goat herder to guess at it.
Conservative Christians are so susceptible to right wing propaganda. My mom is all the time spouting some idiotic bullshit she heard nonthhand that was either an ai creation or not exist entirely
Spot on but I think the majority of dems are Christian too. They just aren’t as crazy.
Lets get more specific. Most Mormons are Republican while the majority of Democratic Christians are Black. That was 2014, Pew Research. As of April, 2024, the non-religious are Democrats and the Mormons and White Evangelical Christians are by far the highest percentage of Republicans.
indeed. there are zero meaningful ties to islam in the democratic party. best not to piss this person off though, we need all the votes we can get to avoid a christo-fascist theonomist takeover in the fall.
I don’t have a problem with Islam as long as they don’t wave it in my face, but that’s the way I feel about all religions, so they shouldn’t take it personally.
Democrats are tolerant of religions... Xtian cultists are not. I think that is what he is referring to, especially in light of the mess in Gaza.
DEMOCRATS ARE NOT PROGRESSIVES!!!! I don't know who made up that lie, but both the democrats and the progressives agree. Progressives vote Democrat, because they are closer than Republicans. Besides Sanders and AOC, there are no real progressives in the Democratic party.
It's the difference between "Liberal" and "Left". During the 1860s, the liberals of the day wanted to make life better for the slaves, but weren't actually opposed to slavery. The "left" were strict abolitionists. Same thing today.
If you are libertarian, you oppose authoritarianism in all its forms. Republicans are authoritarian, and want to end democracy in this country. That's vehemently against the libertarian philosophy. If you truly believe in freedom and democracy, the Democrats are the only choice.
Not a great choice, but by 1000 miles the best choice.
“Politics is not like finding true love, it’s like taking public transport: you can’t wait for the politician of your dreams, you need to vote for the next one going a bit closer to where you want to be.”
- someone.
There are more progressives than just Bernie and AOC in the Democratic party (and both of them are actually Democratic Socialists anyway, and Bernie isn't even in the Democratic Party). The entire "squad" plus a dozen or so other representatives are progressives. They're just a small faction, less than 10 percent of the Democratic House delegation
I would argue that from an atheist perspective, Tlaib and Omar have some serious blind spots when it comes to the beliefs and potential harm from radical islam, but that's also just a tiny corner of the Democratic party, and doesn't by any reasonable argument represent the overall position of the party.
It isn't hard to find examples of democrats being far more sympathetic to Islam than is justified. One that sticks out in my mind was when a Muslim politician from I believe it was Rhode Island had a whole spiel about wanting to designate Mahsa Amini's birthday world hijab day. Like how tone deaf can you get. That said I think jumping to the defense of Islam is less common among politicians than academia. Politicians generally need to appeal to a broader audience so excusing things like homophobia is more likely to be career suicide.
To be fair, it's not hard to find examples of Democrats being more sympathetic towards anyone who isn't the Republicans target audience. I'm not aware of what happened in Rhode Island. I do remember that in Michigan, Republican mayor Amer Ghalib and his all-Muslim city council tried to ban Pride flags despite the 1st amendment. So the tone deafness isn't unique to Democrats.
Also, I feel like Republicans are more likely to support the oil industry, which has some pretty deep ties with Islamic states. The US is one of Saudi Arabia's biggest customers. So Democrats might be more sympathetic towards Muslim "people", but I feel Republicans have more ties to Islam than they want to admit.
Also, I feel like Republicans are more likely to support the oil industry, which has some pretty deep ties with Islamic states. The US is one of Saudi Arabia's biggest customers. So Democrats might be more sympathetic towards Muslim "people", but I feel Republicans have more ties to Islam than they want to admit.
That's a good point. The government making an argument that we should export freedom to Iraq and Afghanistan while being best buddies with the Saudis who aren't much better always looked ridiculous to me
Interesting. I heard about that city council but didn't realize they were Republicans. I'm a bit surprised the Republicans would allow Muslims in the party since it seems like Christian supremacy usually takes precedence over solidarity over things like homophobia. I listened to a podcast about a Muslim running for representative in Michigan who got a lot of flack from Christian supremacists. That's the thing about theocrats . A different religion is a threat even if there is a lot of agreement on goals.
They can't legally keep them out due to the constitution, and there are Muslims that are willing to bear the hatred they receive from Christians if it furthers homophobia or business interests.
Then vote Democratic.
The current Republican Party needs to be burned to the ground if you want an actual choice in what you vote for.
Agreed. I have been a classic liberal/libertarian for most of my youth and that shitty Party is not even remotely close to even mimicking those values. Nope, not even in terms of economic freedom.
For years I have maintained a blog on right wing political thought of all strains you can think of from atheist anarcho-capitalism to Catholic reactionary/continental conservatism. Although I no longer regard myself as a right winger, I have a deep respect for differences in ideas and am very tolerant to ideas from different sides of the political spectrum. But I cannot tolerate dictatorships, genocides and disenfranchisement.
Right now the Republican Party is simply conveniently "allowing" a Christofascist faction to hijack it because they think they can win elections that way. Whatever remains of moderate conservatism or classic liberalism in that Party will be purged as soon as that faction holds the power.
By all means necessary, stop that faction, demolish and rebuild this party from scratch if need be and definitely end bipartisanship in the US.
Yes. If the GOP does “ok” in this election and Biden just squeaks out a win, this is still the GOP you get four years from now. It’s “good enough” that most people keep their jobs and they have a path to power with voters getting tired of the guys in charge and wanting a change.
Your brand of right wing thought (for lack of a better term) will have no place in governance than far left wing thought would.
Exactly. There's only one group far right extremists hate more than their pet ethnic enemy and far left extremists: right wing moderates. Those are purged first because they're deemed as traitors, "the enemy within" that needs to be uprooted before they can wage war against the outgroup.
I agree. I used to consider myself a Republican leaning independent. Now I will vote for the Democrats until this populist wave has subsided. If it takes 20 years then so be it. The Republican party needs to be destroyed in its current form and be replaced by a new conservative party.
Im not sure those folks are as hard for Islam as you think. They’re more just about equality. And in a world where Islam is often shat upon, it might look like any defense of them is bad.
And believe me I’m not here to talk about the merits of Islam. What I can tell you though is that I’ve met many Muslim folks that I’m good friends with. And that’s what the Left would like you to understand is possible, and Right would like to act like you’ve just slapped George Washington in the face with a rubber dildo if you say that.
Exactly.
Seeing ordinary Muslims as just people instead of monsters or "others" one has to be suspicious of, is not the same as sympathizing with Islam, let alone Islamism.
I’m atheist and I don’t care what religion you follow so long as you don’t expect me to also and you don’t try and build YOUR religion into OUR laws.
And that applies equally to Muslims as it does Christians.
And don't expect an exemption from our laws for your religion.
Outside of the terrorists, I’ve never seen a pushy Muslim myself.
Like any group, they’ll run the whole gamut. But the ones I’ve come to know are regular old people. Imagine that!
Where as here in the US there is definitely one religion trying to force everyone to live according to their holy laws. Ironically it's the Christians crying about sharia law who are imposing their own.
I worked with a few Afghan men who were devout Muslims & they were the kindest and hardest working people I’ve ever worked with. They had next to nothing and their generosity puts most everyone else (including me) to shame.
They would behave very differently if you were gay.
Or a woman…extremely valid point.
Keep in mind that quite a few american muslims are here because they came here to get away from fundie muslims.
Nope. They are here for the opportunity America provides. A huge chunk of Muslims are fundamentalists. Islam demands that from it's followers. Muslims in the US are not pushy because they are a very small minority.
Source: raised muslim.
The amount of homophobia, misogyny, and really terrible ideas (like killing apostates) that shows up when you poll Islamic populations is frightening. For instance, belief that homosexuality is unacceptably immoral doesn't go below 79% for any continent's Muslims.
Muslim populations tend to have majority opinions with terrible ideas about how the world ought to be.
It wasn’t so long ago the United States would have been above 79% too. Countries with conservative governments aren’t going to be hotbeds of progressive thought. Give em time.
That's the really insidious part about Islam. They have a really big problem with innovation. Innovation is an actual sin. Haram. Any attempt to reform the religion is tantamount to blasphemy. You can't give them enough time with that kind of doctrine.
I understand that this is a statement on your own experience, but this is a confounding take. Have you seen what’s going on in the Middle East? Is every insane religious law made by “terrorists”?
For American conservatives it is.
Must Muslims I know are far less zealous than Fundie Christians
It’s a numbers game but I’ve definitely met more dickhead xtians for sure.
That's because Muslims are victims of Islam. It's not the people that we should worry about, it's the ideology. I'd say the same about Christians, by and large, Christmas are people, and people are generally good, but their religion is bad and it occasionally makes them do bad things.
I know, it's a tangent, but too often people forget and put it on people whose brains are damaged from indoctrination. I used to be religious, was I a bad person? No, I was just taught things that affected my behavior.
Your actions make you a good or bad person. As a result of your beliefs, you do bad things, you're a bad person.
That's how that works. Atheists don't enjoy religious exemptions for their shitty behavior.
Republican Party now only exists in name, those who don't worship every word their Lord and Savior (Donald Trump) says are branded RINO.
…and the reality is that anyone rollin’ with Maga is an actual RINO.
That's debatable. Political parties evolve and change over time. Today's Democrats are nothing like the pro-slavery pro-'states rights' Democrats that Lincoln ran against.
Two Republican supreme court justices now have "wives" that openly supported the "stop the steal" J6 insurrection (Thomas and Alito) so it's pretty clear now that the Republican Party is MAGA.
Those in the party that disdain MAGA have to decide what to do, the party has changed.
Yes, I agree that it’s debatable. I also see your point.
My comment implies that Maga hijacked the Republican Party, and now calls anyone who isn’t an extremist right wing propaganda pushing nut job a “RINO.” But, from my understanding of the Republican Party in the past couple of decades, in theory, true Republicans should be anti-Maga.
Perhaps I’ve given “moderate” or “rational” Republicans credit where credit is not due. They’ve always been liars who dabble in right wing extremism. Don’t know why I’d expect them to all act like Liz Cheney or Adam Kinzinger when it comes to American values and traditions. The days of hoping for a sane, rational Republican Party has come to an end. Even Mitt Romney fell off the deep end in his latest interview with Stephanie Ruhle. What an embarrassment to humanity these crazies have become.
But, from my understanding of the Republican Party in the past couple of decades, in theory, true Republicans should be anti-Maga.
Trump was the inevitable conclusion to the lies and shenanigans of the GOP since Nixon. You're deluding yourself if you believe this was some kind of takeover.
You have to remember that despite her critiques, Liz voted in lock step with Trump 90+% of the time. I'm glad she calls out Trump but let's be real about her actual voting. Rhetoric is nice, but in the end these people all vote to ruin society about the same whether it's Cheney or Gaetz casting the votes. A moderate Republican is still consistently voting for awful shit.
Lost me at libertarian.
Smartest idiots are always libertarian.
"Libertarians are like house cats. They think they're fierce and independent, but they're utterly powerless & reliant on a system they don't understand or appreciate." -crusty internet meme i've seen somewhere
People are so US centric they only think of the US Libertarian party. In the US, Libertarians are just disenfranchised republicans. In the more traditional sense of the word, libertarian means the opposite of authoritarian. A person who places high value on civil liberty.
The OP has stated that their leanings were identified from political tests. These are simply identifying them as libertarian as opposed to authoritarian when placing them on a political spectrum. It does not mean that they would fit into the US Libertarian party. It just means they place high value in things like bodily autonomy, civil rights, and legal protections from governmental abuse.
If you don’t want this country to become all the things you hate about Islamic oppression, vote Dem.
What "ties to Islam" are you talking about? That's right-wing propaganda from people in the media who believe that Christians are being persecuted when we pursue true religious freedom & equality. Democrats simply want all Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, etc. to be treated with the same religious tolerance and deference that Christians receive in America.
Take a look at how the party leaders compare to the US population. Neither party is perfect, but one clearly better represents The People while the other represents white Christian men.
I really hope they answer this question. Soon.
I’m getting big “if you don’t like America go back to where you came from” vibes
Whether they are the majority or not, they control the party and vote as if they are, just look at who they voted to be Speaker... Senate Minority Leader, Trump's VP etc etc.
I don't think it matters how many are evangelical fundamentalists. All of them are supporting their advancement. This is how 1930s Germany ended up with Nazis. And today's Iran is where they are now.
I'd like to see the Republican Party fail so badly that they splitter off and hopefully, that party takes over. But until today's Republican party is dead the only choice is to vote Democrat.
We can't fix the Democratic party until it's safe against fascism. That's my take.
Yup 100%
They love to call themselves the silent majority but in reality they are much more of the vocal minority. There is a reason that they were largely ignored by both parties as a voting bloc up until the late 70s and early 80s. They literally made no difference in elections because they were small and their views didn't align with mainstream GOP platform except for a few things. Once the GOP figured out that catering to them would give them the margin they needed to lock in consistent electoral victories in many areas of the south and midwest that used to be purple or up for grabs, things began to shift and suddenly abortion and govt censoring music and art became mainstream GOP issues because they have to retain those specific voters to keep winning elections, whether they actually share their views or not. That's why a lot of evangelicals despise govt. They elect people who tell them what they want to hear and then fail to deliver, mostly because the politicians have no intention of being extreme fanatics in office. They are there to enrich themselves, not bring about the second coming of christ.
If you don't vote for Biden you are voting to make America the Christian version of Iran.
I am politically homeless as well. I would never even consider voting Republican though because of it's direct ties to gutting womens repro rights.
So what's so terrible about Dems? What beliefs do you have that convinces you that you have no political home?
I don't think Dems are terrible. I've always voted Dem. I am still very angry after 40 + years they never bothered once to attempt codify abortion rights into law until they had zero power. I've found them politically weak and useless at times, capitulating to corporations and the loud minority of both sides of the political extremes.
In the last 40 years, the Dems only had real legislative power for a couple short periods (1993-94 and 2009-10). In the former they focused on fixing the economy and in the latter they focused on Obamacare.
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they may not be over 50%, but they are the biggest majority in the party. Which means they get what they want, even if a moderate is leading the party. It's their base
No. The majority are ignorant mainline protestants and catholics that vote Republican because they have always voted Republican and because they think Democrats will make them pay more taxes and are coming for their guns, trucks, luxury cars and their gas stoves. Also because they are afraid of the LGBTQ+ and immigrants.
I would turn that around to say that majority xian fundies are republican. I would not say most republicans are xian fundy tho
I have been a Dem all my life -- voted for Jimmy Carter two weeks after my 18th birthday -- and I have met very few people who are conservative religious of any ilk in the party -- not evangelicals, not Orthodox Jews, and if there have been any Muslims they have shown no outward sign. (I know a few Muslims here in town; they're as radical as your average Presbyterian.)
I agree that we need structural change; I'd like to see automatic run-off voting, proportional representation, and mandatory voting in both generals and primaries. But the two-party system is what we have right now. It's not going to change by November. If Biden wins you will get to vote again in '28. If Trump wins we may never get to vote again. He's talking about suspending the constitution and giving cops full immunity.
In the US, the libertarian identity was taken over in 2009 by the Kock funded Tea Party. it is a far right, fundamentalist christian movement designed to pull the right towards fascism. see: Rand Paul
While there are individuals, there is no classic liberal libertarian movement in the US.
The religious loonies are a thing of their own, but yes mostly head to republican side. But not all republicans are religious.
Right. They're just racist and fascist.
98% of the current is Democratic Party does not qualify as progressive. Joe isn’t. Kamala isn’t. Bernie and AOC are, but neither of them has been able to get elected beyond their initial location, and they’re the minority.
The Democrats are generally status-quo centrists. They just look ‘left’ because the R’s have taken such a hard right lurch. I’d actually prefer the republicans moved towards the middle, but I don’t see that happening soon. It’ll take a crushing defeat, or a win followed by the nation engaging in what we later realize is horrifying behavior.
No. I don’t have the stats on hand but it’s something short of like 40% which is a huge amount but not the majority.
Please someone correct me if I’m wrong.
"Fundies" is a tough thing to define, but about 56% of Republicans are evangelical Protestants, and a full 80% are any kind of Christians.
Further, if a serial rapist, liar, fraudster, and conman ruling your party doesn't push you out, I consider you an extremist.
So yeah, a lot more than 40%.
I hope you are right.
It doesn't feel like that.. but I guess it also depends on how you define fundamentalists.
But one lie about a made up place after death and you are suseptible to buy all sorts of BS
If you don't want Trump, the only real option is Biden, because of the Electoral College system. And the only party who would be able or willing to get rid of that system is the Democrats, with an overwhelming majority in Congress. Vote blue up and down the ticket if you want to ever fix the broken system and have the option to get a third party candidate elected in the future!
"the squad" also isn't the majority of the democratic party.
It doesn't matter to OP. They are a troll, not here to gain any actual insight. Check her comment history.
You should probably rethink your media intake if you think the Christian chokehold on the GOP is the same as Dems saying maybe we shouldn't discriminate against Muslims. And that's something you should support because the only thing the Christians running the GOP hate more than Muslims are atheists. You're just not a politically vaulable target. You may not be the first they put against a wall buy you'll damn well be the second.
You are approaching this from a false premise. Progressives do not have ties and sympathies to political or fundamentalist islam in the sense of them wanting to enforce it here or support it. It sounds to me like your opinion is derived more than likely from you being deeply entrenched in evangelical christianity and Republican propaganda. Also what definition of Libertarian are you working with? US libertarian or classical libertarianism before it was co-opted in the US by hypercapitalists and Ayn Rand because it makes little sense to be a leftist and a libertarian.
Why not vote Democrat then?
A lot of good points here, but also- many republicans congressmen don’t give a SHIT about Christianity, but make themselves appear pious and extreme to appease that base.
Which is almost worse than being genuinely awful, because it means they’ll act erratically, and extreme for performative reasons.
A genuine fundie you can guess how they think, possibly appeal to them through certain arguments.
A congressman won’t give a shit about your based-in-theology arguments, because he doesn’t really care about abortion/God/whatever, he’s just doing what he thinks those people want
The islamic people I know in the US may vote democrat or republican but are still pretty conservative. I know lots of liberals who currently align with Palestine in current geopolitics even if they are not pro-islam or pro-hamas.
A lot of liberals I know are atheist. But there are still quite a bit more who have more quirky beliefs like pagan, wiccan, or horoscope nonsense.
Not the majority, but the loudest and dumbest.
Christians make up one of the three legs of the Republican party. The other two are fiscal conservatives and interventionists. It seems like the Christian right has taken control though. I can't remember which Republican representative said it, but we've been warned about this portion taking control of the party. It was said that these people do not compromise because they believe they are right morally in what they are doing. There is no room for compromise, and unfortunately compromise is a big part of Congress and the running of our country. That's why you see so many of the old GOP retiring early. They can't legislate anymore due to the gridlock from the Christian right.
I don't have any more sympathy for Islam than I do for Christianity or Zionism. I have a problem with people being slaughtered because of their ethnicity. Brown people who happen to have been indoctrinated into a shitty religion the same way white people were indoctrinated into a shitty religion are getting killed and starved at a higher rate right now by the white people. Doesn't mean it's ok they kill the white people too. Does mean it's ok to point out the discrepancy.
So fucking sick of people finding excuses to kill other people. That's the purpose of religion.
My question would be what makes you libertarian. The modern libertarians from everything I've seen are basically embarrassed Republicans that want to get high.
The libertarian movement is very pie in the sky... Just remove all rules and let the free market regulate itself.
It honestly confuses me that you would say leftist AND libertarian.
And to answer your question. A bunch are fundamentalist, a bunch are useful idiots(though maybe not religious), and a small number are the ultra rich that use both of those previous groups to their political advantage.
The majority of the GOP are opportunists who prey on the ignorance and lack of education of their voting base, which tends heavily towards fundie Christian.
I’m an agnostic/atheist and I vote democrat since 2016.
The only person saying the left is Islam/Muslim is right wing conservative Christian fear tanks. The left is pro first amendment as strong as the right is pro 2nd amendment.
Freedom of and FROM religion.
The right just says the other side is bad, the left tries to give people equal footing for the most part, but the right just blocks everything and says the left can’t get anything done.
I’d Rather vote for people trying to do something than for grown ass adults that act like bitchy middle schoolers
Its ties to political Islam? My dude, what are you smoking?
The Squad are what we used to call moderate Democrats and they advocate separation of church and state like all non-traitors in the US. If none of them are the reps for your district why would it even matter?
Your going to get a skewed opinion on Reddit which is very left. The extremes of either party aren't a good home for most people. If you vote solely on social issues you'll be eternally disappointed because those are the wedge issues they never resolve but use to motivate voters. I base my vote on what role the government should have in your life and the lives of others and which candidates align with that.
Most Christians are Republicans but I can't say most Republicans are Christian. As far as who to vote for it seems pretty simple to me. You vote for the one who won't take us into a dictatorship, dismantle our government, and sell our state secrets to form powers.
Man you people in the US really don't know anything about your own political system do you? The Democrats or the squad don't have any ties to political Islam. Aside from one of them being a Muslim I don't see where that assertion comes from. Oh and as far as I can tell, she doesn't really vote with her religious interests at heart. But to answer your broader question. The republicans are controlled by fundamentalist Christians.
With how often you mention the "Squad" it's hard to believe you aren't trolling. Christianity is just as evil as Islam, it's just better at hiding it and has had longer to mature out of some of its more medieval ideals. You sound like a racist in my book.
It’s more of a plurality.
The GOP realized there are a lot of evangelicals. So, the GOP began to court that vote… it’s less about being ‘Christian’ and more about gathering a voting population for power. Same thing with 2nd amendment. Same thing with pretty much anything the GOP campaigns on.
They have created a base of votes and the majority of their base votes against their own best. interests.
It comes down to belief with 0 facts to back if up, modern Republicans push their beliefs as well as pushing the idea od taking us back to when things were so much better (whenever that was, uaually its the 50s when we were fighting the godless communists). But things weren't better for most then, and Trickle down economics do not work yet people believe they do without any facta to back it up at all.
Since when are the Squad in charge of the Dems? They’d be incredibly pleased you think so. 😏
Not all Republicans are Christian fundamentalists, but all Christian fundamentalists are Republicans
Progressive and Muslim don't belong in the same sentence in this century. Don't let a less than 5 people convince you of what progressivism is.
Sounds like you're just a normal moderate Democrat? Welcome to the majority?
I'm not sure what you mean by the lefts Islamic politics...
I accept people being Muslim as much as I accept people being Christian. But I do not accept the brainwashing religion does.
Yes the majority of the GOP is now conservative Christian, mostly fundamentalist.
The Democratic party is not pro ANY religion, they are for the same constitutional rights to freedom of religious expression and they see the hypocrisy of the GOP making out like this is solely a Christian country where Muslims shouldn't have the same rights. I don't know any Democrats who are pushing Islam as a better alternative as far as religious beliefs go, they are mostly just sick of the hypocrisy and the mindless loyalty to Israel even though they've been slaughtering Palestinians left and right. It's enough to make me feel more pro-Islam myself and I'm a self-professed militant atheist who isn't a fan of any organized religion.
During my time in a fundamentalist church (Southern Baptist) - I heard nothing against Islamism but much against people of Jewish. It was one of the many things that sent me away from church - that and in my heart I was not a believer….
I remember a staunch Baptist telling me she would not accept a friend request from a former high school friend who was Jewish. 😖
This crap is taught early in fundamentalist religions. Love thy neighbor not so much.
It shows today by what the Republican party is. Radical right religious nuts.
"Independents" have been around for a long time. It's just that we don't have membership cards.
Republican party is made up of fundies, and people pretending to be fundies to get the fundie vote.
No idea what the ratio is.
"I now find myself somewhat politically homeless & despise the 2 party system in the USA"
Many people have expressed this frustration over the decades. In the end, the GOP tends to collect the very worst under the "big tent" they imagine themselves having. This has been true since at least the early 1960's.
What is "passing" for progressivist thinking these days has unfortunately (for some), included grandstanding for Hamas. Rest assured. These are not the long-term voices of progressive thought. Islam (nor fundamentalist Christianity), will never carry the banners of secular social progress. Vote for a candidate that most approximates your closest views. In my experience, this has been a Dem again and again (as Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II, Trump - were all disastrous in their own right).
Vote for policies not people. What what they say and then what they do. Vote either to support good or to mitigate har. Dont "choose a side" the side exists to make the power structure work
I now find myself somewhat politically homeless & despise the 2 party system in the USA. Not sure if anyone else is in a similar predicament.
Yes.
I was raised jehovah's witness. As such, we were officially neutral, but unofficially i tended to lean republican. I've long had libertarian sympathies, even while i was a believer. The separation of church and state made sense from both the christian and american viewpoints.
I'm now strongly libertarian, both in general, and with a specific focus on free speech. Economically, i used to be far right, but am now center left. I used to be anti-abortion, but have become pro-choice. I remain environmentalist. I remain pro-gun.
The republican party has changed in the last several decades, with the trump takeover being the most obvious part of it. Yeah, there were christian nuts like rick santorum even back then. But they weren't the whole party. It was also a party with legitimate capitalist economic arguments, and some libertarian tendencies. But now it has become a party loyal to the demagogue trump, a cult of personality. Its arguments are on culture war issues and fear mongering. And the christian nuts seem to have taken it over. It no longer tries to uphold the constitution.
This is a bit cliche, but i think accurate: The republicans are for a police state. The democrats are for a nanny state. Both are against freedom.
For me, the sesta-fosta vote was a litmus test, and a demonstration that both parties are against the constitution. That unconstitutional law passed the house 388 to 25, and the senate 97 to 2. The recent bipartisan move against tiktok is another example. (Yes, tiktok is an enemy, but even enemies have free speech.)
I despise both main parties. I tended to vote for the libertarian party the last several elections, but even they don't match my stance. Of the right wing parties, the libertarian party is closest to my views, but only gets about 3% of the vote. Of the left wing parties, the pirate party is closest to my views, but they're not even on the ballot. None of them match my views exactly.
Most if not ALL fundamentalist Christians are definitely republican. But not all who vote GOP are fundamentalist Christians. It’s also worth pointing out that while “the squad” are “sympathetic” to political Islam, when polled (Pew Gallop et al) majority of Muslims support political views that are more closely aligned w GOP than Dem. Something like 70% support various aspects of sharia. Further, take for instance Charlie Hebdo, Salman Rushdie just to name a few. Majority of Muslims either supported or had no issue with what happened there. Majority also support death for blasphemy and apostasy. Take also views on women’s rights. Pick a Muslim majority country that has a good record for its treatment of women or sexual minorities
No, I think they're just a minority in the party. But because of how vocal they are, we unfortunately hear from them all the time. I'm a Republican but I'm not a Christian. I used to be Catholic but I left the Church back in 2008.
I identify with the "progressive" movement. I, possibly "we" see Islam as just another religion that people should be free to believe, without impeding anyone else's personal rights. Republicans are actively trying to make neo-Christian dogma to be the new, western Sharia. Republicans want my transgender kid to die. I'm not joking. There is a comparison to be made, but I think you are vastly overestimating the "support" the progressives have towards Islam.
It's an oxymoron...or maybe just a moron. The majority of fundamentalist christians aren't really fundie christians at all. They have no idea what they believe outside of a narrow set of talking points. There's no one so ignorant about christianity as fundie christies. But most of them are there just to be a part of the in-crowd.
While a good many fundie christians call themselves conservatives, they're not really conservatives either. They'll go on about how they want less government intervention and less regulation until something/someone rubs them the wrong way, then they're all about passing laws, fining people, and throwing people in jail for shit. So, it's really less regulation except for the regulations they like.
No, fundamentalist Christians are not a majority of the Republican party. In the same way, the large majority of Democrats are not progressives (https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/11/09/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology-2/)
I bet you a lot of Americans feel the same as you..
In the current political situation.. then yes I think the majority of Republicans are fundamentalist christians.
Christians cannot be in good faith with their doctrine and be true republicans. However true republicans cop the label and identify as christians.
I came out of both to be a progressive lgbt christian
Yes. They are theocratic nazis who want Christian Sharia law
I’m not sure what the ‘predicament’ consists of other than ignorance about what democrats support (the Constitution, separation of church and state), and also how a two party system differs from a multiparty system. To suggest atheists struggle to find a ‘fit’ in our political system is to fundamentally misunderstand both.
(The chief difference between a multiparty and a two party system is fragmentation into absurd factions—into distinctions lacking a difference. The People’s Front of Judea vs the Judea People’s Front, if you will. The political tendency towards meaningless factionalism has absolutely nothing to do with atheism—although it could be likened to similar processes that manifest in religion itself. How many versions of ‘The Bible’ do you need? One for every flavor of Protestantism, certainly.)
They certainly legislate like that's the case.
Support for Christian theocracy is rampant among republicans and in most places you wouldn't win a Republican primary without expressing at least some support for it . In some ways they are actually aligned with Islamic theocrats but Christian supremacy tends to eclipse things like solidarity over homophobia etc. I heard there were several Muslims in Michigan that ran in the GOP primary but didn't really get anywhere.
Personally I also don't wholly align with any political party. I think the best you can do is advocate for the things you want. For example advocating for the separation of church and state and telling your local politicians how important that is to you could sway them a bit. Of course if the opportunity arises voting for progressives who take a hard-line stance against all forms of theocracy no matter the religion would be a way to more directly nudge your government towards separation of church and state.
No. They ain't followers of Jesu Christe.
I’m guessing you live on one of the coasts? I find it hard to imagine someone who lives in the middle of the country asking this question, since we come into daily contact with religious Americans who are (almost all) MAGA extremists
They ARE the Republican party.
In the same way that pro choice people make up the majority of democrats, but you'll never see the democrat party go full swing and make that country wide, you won't see the country go full yallqaeda. You'll see some of it some times, but never all the way either way. It's the democrats and republicans way of keeping everything the way it is.
Whenever a person decides not to take sides between the parties that the rich offer us, this is the dilemma faced: there’s nothing else to vote for. The rich insist we vote for one of their candidates.
As much as I agree about the political blindness of the left regarding Islam (to name just one of their political errors), they’re the clear lesser evil among the evils. If I were to choose between them simply on an election basis, that’s how I’d do it. But I haven’t voted in decades, especially as I’m in a state that’s already overwhelmingly one party, so my vote won’t count either way in the US electoral college machine.
No, they're just the dumbest and loudest
Not the majority but the most motivated and the loudest
No. It's full of libertarians, fiscal conservatives, conservative liberals, etc. Social conservatives do make up a large faction, though.
Republicans are conservative liberals at the core, and democrats are social liberals at their core. That's according to political science though.
Because this is probably a troll.
I read somewhere that they've taken over the party to the point where if you identify as R it's a package deal. You identify as evangelical Christian no matter what other flavor of Christian you really are and even that is shifting more to white nationalist evangelical Christian. If Turnip died I think they could come back even just a little but I don't know how. They've used him to show all of the awful things about themselves.
And their idea of Christian is completely warped from the Jimmy Carter love thy neighbor, be like Jesus. They would kill, deport, arrest, all of this if the real one showed up. Maybe the rapture happens and some people made it. But there aren't any here.
All political parties are an assembled coalition. Inside that, not everyone 'assigned' to a political party by a descriptor behave as expected. There are Evangelicals who vote Democratic.
Read NIxonland. Nixon made a point of assembling anew Republican coalition and Evangelicals are a key part of that. I think one thing that is true is that a higher percentage of Evangelicals vote Republican than say business conservatives.
On another note, I rarely like a politician I vote for. The main advantage is not that I can vote people in, it is that I can vote people out. For part of my life I never voted for an incumbent at all. Republicans have made it impossible for me to vote for most of them. I vote for the least bad option But I will not throw away my vote on a protest candidate if the election matters. Like the next one, where democracy itself is on the line. If fascists take over America, it won't be because of me.
Fundies aren’t the majority of the Republican Party but it’s hard for republicans to win without their support. The majority of evangelicals are Republican, somewhere in the 90% range and maybe even higher. Even the orange skinned god wanna be knows that you can’t get elected as a Republican without their support. That’s the only reason the orange god wanna be is ever seen holding a Bible. If the political split of evangelicals was even 60/40 we wouldn’t have the problems we do today because the MAGA republicans wouldn’t get elected.
Seems to me the more rational are generally the Democrats.. the republicans tend to have been brainwashed by AM radio or Fox opinion "news". I am pro gun regulation.. pro choice and I feel that the 1% need to pay their share. I feel like lowering global warming shouldn't be a division line, but again it seems to be logic verses propaganda (republicans)
I would say no, but the vast majority of fundie Christians are Republican.
Toxic masculinity is a huge factor as well. The GOP has managed to convince a lot of the working class that it's unmanly to vote for Democrats and that we want to eliminate the working class when it's actually the Republican's that vote to exploit the populace as nothing more than wage slaves.
Those in power are but the average Republican voter even if they are religious don't take the hard line that these evangelical fundamentalists do. An example of this would be abortion. Most Republicans have moral objections to abortion but the majority of them don't support a total ban on it. If you need it for a medical emergency for example. Most support limitations on abortion access but not a total ban. Most support IVF which the leadership really doesn't but they want to appear like they do, but they don't know what to do with it. IVF is something rich people support, some of whom support the Republican party and given them money.
I feel at home in the Democratic party as I'm too liberal to be a Republican but am more conservative than the Democrats that are in power. Some issues. The problem is the Republican and Democratic leadership is at either end of the political spectrum and you had no middle or middle of the roader.
Most people are middle ground with no were to go basically. When I was growing up you have differing opinions in both parties with most in leadership being middle of the road. This started to gradually change in the 1980's so by the 2000's what was considered to be fringe elements in the political parties were beginning to take power and this is what you have today which makes it difficult to do anything productive. When you aren't allowed to have differing beliefs, this is going to create a serious problem.
Tbe democrats absolutely do not have "ties" to Islam. That's some rage bait. You've going for you.
Christianity is the only thing republicans have to stand on.
All parties are tents with many people inside.
The ultra identity politics version of both parties are completely annoying, but only a minority of each party are in this group.
I, being a northern college educated tech person have a lot more in common with the center of the dems (climate change, future tech, infrastructure, rational discussion, yankee) than the center of the republic (maga cultist, authotarian, anti abortion, name calling, southern)
Yes, the Republican Party is under control of oppressive theocrats. They have been for a long time now. Where have you been?
Does not matter. The American politic system needs a reboot, starting with the Electoral College and the Senate. Hang a few thousand lobbyists, fix the problems with dark money, and impose ranked-choice voting. Bam. Things start to get more balanced and less insane.
The Republican Party stands for authoritarianism. This can be based on religion, racism, or whatever. For many within the elite of the party like Trump, they don’t care what it’s based on as long as it gets them power. Hitler was a Catholic and Himmler was a wannabe-wizard new-age ancient alien guy but no serious historians are going around claiming the National Socialist regime was catholic or neo-pagan.
Old ronnie courted them in the 80s... been downhill since then...
I’m not sure, but I doubt it. These days everyone wants to take every issue and push them to the extreme edges. They want to say Republican and Democrat and mean the worst example of either.
Most of the people I know it my life are very firmly in the middle, with various leanings either way.
I’m in the south eastern US and always considered myself a republican, but I’m also an atheist, who is perfectly fine with LGBTQ+, believes in Pro Choice, and I’m very pro-environment and fairly anti-corporation.
I think both sides do shitty things and I’m pretty disgusted by both right now. I believe that these politicians don’t care about us or the values they run their platform on. They just go with what they think trends the best. How does the saying go? “If you think your politician cares about you, you probably think the hooker loves you.”?
I’m just real careful about thinking in extremes and trying to vilify a group based on some really loud idiots. That’s the kind of thing I don’t like about religion.
May I recommend that you take a brief look at European systems of governance? It really sounds like you have nothing to compare the American system with, and just accept all those norms as necessary.
The squad is not left in the rest of the world. The American bubble has shaped concepts you may not realize are malleable, not stuck.
I'm sure you are a decent human, but reading your post gave me a lot of anxiety. An introductory youtube video about German or Dutch legislated workers rights and health care should have you doing a double take. Look at Estonia for a spit take- so much with so little.
I'm a Republican and not Christian or religious. And I know a strict Christian Democrat. Religion being attached to a political party is insanely dumb.
Republican or Democrat reps are supposed to reflect their constituents and their views nothing more nothing less. Democrats in the South often sound more conservative than Republicans in the north. Each party trys to align themselves with a given area (Or at least they should)
A Republican in say Minnesota, can be vastly different than a Republican in Georgia.
I was over at /askConservative explaining to them Nixon ' Southern Stretagy', They don't know their own history, and it's not all that long ago.
The fundie Christisns come from Calvinist Southren Baptist, that used the Bible to justify slavery. Jerry Fawell is one of this movements Founders.
Sometime at or near the end of Jim Crow, Republican decided they could could never be sure to capture enough of the black vote to win, so the dumped money into the demographics that would vote for them. So if you only care about white votes, that's a.. you are gonna get. No nuance needed. The act was just Pratical Politics The result was what we have today.
Pres. Carter told of a meeting he had with Jerry Fawell. Carter was frankly a little surprised when Fawell gave his support th Reagan.
It's more like, the majority of Fundamentalist Christians are Republican and they have significant sway over the party.
I mean the Democratic Party doesn't have any real ties to Islam as far as I know, so I don't know why this would be a problem for you.