As much as I love the guy and wanted to see him in a Flames uniform forever, he just didn't do enough to prove that he can take on a top 4 D kind of contract with term. He played for a quarter of the contract he signed. Not his fault, but that's what happened. He's not a known quantity yet. Bridge contract is the right call.
I’m confused how it’s not his fault he missed all those games?
How do you think it is his fault?
He signed a contract. He failed to fulfil its obligations. That broke trust, and then he expected everything to be everything? ✌🏽
Would you say that about Monahan with his hip stuff as well?
“Fault” is really the wrong word. The concern with Monahan was whether he would be healthy enough to play effectively for sustained periods. Kind of the same here, based on what we do know.
I totally agree, there are big questions about his ability and longevity. But I think it's clearly not his fault.
!Francis said that Shilly wanted more term than what Flames were willing to give, apparently money wasn't the issue
FUCK ERIC FRANCIS!
FUCK ERIC FRANCIS!
FRIC FRANCIS!
Jake also signed for 2 years at $1.75M AAV. Good luck getting Oliver for that. Good move by Conny getting a similar player for half the price lol
Similar style not similar skill. Kylington is worth more than Bean.
But Bean didn't just take a season+ off. I'm not saying Kylington is going to relapse again but...well, stranger things have happened
Not a relaspe situation. Not drug or alchol related i'd rather sign him has upside we suck anyway
Relapse doesn't necessarily mean drugs or alcohol, it means a reoccurrence of a previous condition
100%
I mean, in a year or two when we have Brzustewicz , Parekh and Poirier moving the puck for us, Kylington probably wouldn’t even be a factor. Still hate to lose him for nothing and a big blow to this years team.
Kylington played like 20% of his previous 2 year contract so it would be foolish to sign him for 2 again.
Would have loved to see him back on a one year show me deal but best of luck elsewhere.
He played 20% of it while dealing with schizo. He purposely didn’t travel on planes as it sketched him out. Dudes a warrior tho and I’ll support him wherever he goes
Wait what. Did more on the situation come out
He didn’t handle planes well. Seemed to be a big trigger for him
It’s been known. He’s been dealing with schizophrenia that why he was sitting out
Where are you getting this info? It's the first I've heard of it
Been around the block. Used to work at the dome too. Surprised you didn’t know
"I heard Johnny left because his wife was being held hostage and they'd only give her back if he left Calgary"
"What? Do you have a source on that?"
"Yeah man, just, y'know, around"
It’s been known. All my friends are aware he struggled with stuff. He legit cannot get on a plane without fear he’ll have a schizo episode. Johnny was a massive coke head who moved so his wife could pursue her career at the #1 hospital in the US
From the sounds of that I don’t think you know what schizophrenia is.
I defs know what schizo is
Ok thanks for entertaining my curiosity
Hey, that fucking sucks. But, why the hell would we sign a guy who can’t get on a fucking plane?
Refusing to sign a guy to a cheap two year contract due to mental illness is the polar opposite of being supportive of players suffering from mental illness. It's worth noting that most of the contract he played was toward the end, which is a pretty clear indication that he's getting things under control.
I think the same concern could be raised if a player had been physically injured for most of the last two years
If he was physically injured for most of the last two years, then successfully came back and played after a long recovery you don't think a team would give him a low AAV two year contract?
I think two years is fine, so I disagree with the original comment, but referring to the claims that Kylington wanted more term (eg maybe 4-5 years?) that would be too much for me
I was more generally commenting on being concerned in general due to not having a large sample size for his body of work
We need to treat mental and physical health the same. If a player was injured for the majority of their contract and were paid the full amount (won’t happen in any other field) you expect a level of loyalty for looking after them.
He was on LTIR and got paid by insurance the same as any player who spends extended periods physically injured. The Flames did a good job of respecting his privacy and taking his mental health issues seriously, but this is not the equivalent of paying someone cheques for two years without working. It's more like being on long term disability.
Did we refuse a 2 year contract? Is there a source for that?
No idea, I'm just responding to the previous commenter who said "it would be foolish to sign him for 2 again."
I wonder how far apart the offers were. I’m sad it ended this way.
Kind of a weird ending
Looks like the issue is term. He wants a longer deal for stability and Conny isn’t willing to commit long term to a guy who’s played less than 30 games in the last 2 seasons
I'm willing to bet that he wants to be paid as a second pairing guy but his role here is definitely bottom pairing.
That’s the problem though. If he’s bottom pairing here, where the fuck is he 2nd pairing?
I'm not sure, but our d corps is pretty good still.
Right now the top 4 is Weegar, Miromanov, Bahl and Andersson. So, not great tbh. Which is fine because we’re needing to finish bottom ten if we want to keep our first rounder (thanks Brad).
Honestly, I think that's pretty decent. Our bottom pairing would be pachal annnddd... Tbd
Seems to me Kyllington overplayed his hand a bit. It’s hard to tiptoe around, but whether he finishes his contract is a bit of a risk. Will other teams be as accepting of that as the Flames have been? Hope so, for his sake.
We were patient enough with him. Glad he took care of himself and all that stuff, but I thought it was a really bad look from him to play 1/4 of his contract and then come back and ask for a raise. Maybe he turns into a superstar, maybe not, but at what point he he just taking advantage of our goodwill?
Realistically, at his age and trajectory, superstar isn't on the table anymore. One of the top two pairs sure, but more than that is a big ask.
I’d love to hear his agents argument for term considering. So bad given how the team took care of him.
I don't fully disagree but it seems the issue is term not AAV. Maybe he just has longer term offers that secure his future. Can't fault a guy for taking the best offer for himself as a UFA when he's in the age for his biggest contract.
He has every right to do whatever he wants as a UFA. We can all agree on that, and I think everyone sincerely hopes for the best for him.
Still a bad look, imo, for him to get greedy when he hasn't proven himself, and we did right by him at every step.
He hasn’t earned a big contract. Glad Conroy isn’t falling for it.
This is how I feel. His return wasn’t as impactful as anyone was Hoping.
I think he might have maneuvered himself into a PTO
Who cares he’s not great
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I'm really suprised it has gotten to this point. Shocked even, Kyilly belongs in Calgary . Was it a miscommunication, he wants long term , flames want a couple to start? He's a smart kid I'm sure he understands where Conny is coming from with a shorter deal for now, I don't get why this fell apart. We needed him. Disappointing
Good. Move on. Prior to his mental health sabbatical, he was easily the most overrated Flame in team history. Never understood the appeal.
Cause he skates like the wind and makes a quick pass up, huge offensive upside. We all saw signs of brilliance from him before he left, I think most of us are hanging onto that.
Kylington is laughing all the way to the bank.
Hopefully Conroy learned a valuable lesson that loyalty in his role is nonsensical and very rarely reciprocated.
It was not about loyalty, it's covered under the CBA to take care of injured/sick players and you want other players to see that the organization respects that. Teams do what's best for them and players have the right to do the same, it's a business. Neither Kylington or Conroy is doing anything wrong, they just couldn't agree.
If any of that were true, you would have a salient point. However, it isn’t. No one outside of the player and the organization knows the reason for his absence. He has said it was for mental health issues but as that is very difficult to substantiate, and more relevant , it is a grey area in the CBA. Particularly because he did not leverage the Player Assistance Program, which was designed for the circumstances most people seem to assume applies to Kylington. There is a reason why he did not qualify for LTIR in the first year he ghosted, and an exception had to be filed the large portion of the second season he missed. Do no, the Flames did not have to accommodate him. They did so, admirably, because they felt it was the right thing to do.
Which leads to your second point: the message it sends to the players. Did their actions and understanding help them sign or retain anyone? And When did the narrative transition from why are all these players leaving or requesting out (Brodie, Toffoli, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Tanev, Zadorov, Lindholm, Markstrom) to, well look at all the players lining up to sign in Calgary, taking discounts to stay because of how the Flames dealt with Kylington (and before him, Hamonic.)
As someone who manages their life with significant mental health diagnosis, I am getting tired of the naivety and virtue signalling. The Flames did Kylington a massive solid and he took full advantage and looked out for himself. He made the system work for him. Good for him. All permissible. But can we stop pretending Kylington is some sort of tragic victim who did something heroic or the Flames didn’t get taken advantage of?
I don't think anyone thinks Kylington did anything heroic but neither did the Flames get taken advantage of, some "injury" happened and they responded appropriately as they should.
The Player Assistance Program is voluntary, so that does not come into the equation with regards to taking time-off for Mental health issues. Mental issues are no longer a Grey area in the CBA, they are accepted same as physical injuries even if they are not easily diagnosed and it remains private unless the player chooses to speak about it (and Kylington said in a sportsnet article he will at some point).
And there was no exception, he qualified for LTIR from the get go, the Flames for cap (accrual) reasons chose not to put him on LTIR right away.
Yes the Flames felt and did the right thing absolutely but make no mistake about it they were also obligated by the CBA.
As for players who left Calgary, sure they left because it's a business, which is what I said (and it wasn't all the players choice either, some like Markstrom were effectively forced out). Doing the right thing doesn't mean players will line-up to sign in Calgary but it just shows we are trying to be a first-class organization and that counts for something.
Players have the right just as the owners/organization. We just saw why Stamkos left Tampa, they said they liked each other but the business side of it was too much vs. loyalty owed on either side.
We don't even know what the terms were between the Flames and Kylington other than what Conroy said, that he wanted a longer term. How much longer we probably will never know.
It's weird how NHL gms think of these guys as all just vaguely similar and replaceable cogs like in musical chairs
(Mixed metaphor but)
Kylington is twice as good as bean and jake is solid, Oliver's microstats profile is almost entirely blue lest two minor categories
How thoroughly do they assess the league?
I always get the impression they rely heavily on heuristic techniques, perhaps in part due to assessment fatigue
But if this is the case the team needs to restructure
One complacent old school guy calling the shots?
Archaic
To steelman Conroy, I assume he's simply saying their role is similar. 4-6 offensive defenseman. I think he'd readily agree Kylingon is the better player.
Kylington was at best a 3rd line D-man before his leave. And now having played only 30 games in the past two seasons AND without Tanev, he is not any better than Bean.
I think most would say cogs in a machine not musical chairs lol Realistically your impression is wrong given that they have multiple members of staff that weigh in. Kylington has decent data metrics but how much of that is skewed by the level of talent he played with and against? That being said, I find moves made by the organization have left me bewildered at times. For the current regime I just tell myself in conny we trust, let him cook etc. and I cope. I really liked Brad Treliving until I didn’t. I’m hoping for better this time around.
I think generally based on this draft and the assets we've received in the past year, they would generally see Kylington at best as a 2nd pairing defenceman, and will be surpassed in the depth chart within a few years by a few guys in the system. This could mean kylington ends up as a 4th (if Rasmus is gone) or bottom 2 if Rasmus stays. Committing term and dollar to a bottom pairing dman 2-3 years down the road is not great when that is hopefully the time you can utilize cap space to accelerate the rebuild instead of picks.
Kind of bizarre that Conroy wouldn't give him term. Pretty disappointing.
Only silver lining is that Bean is awful and the defence is gonna be even more terrible. And with the other bottom teams making moves today, Flames have a wide open path towards finishing last.
Why would they sign a guy long term who has played 30 games in 2 years
Yeah too risky he had one good season then took two seasons off and wants a long term deal.. good luck
Bizarre how? He took almost a full season off, yes it was for real reasons that he had to put first.. but still. Never know if it will happen again.
You mean almost 2 full years
Idiot
Flair checks out
After all he’s been through with the flames and conroy isn’t wanting to bring him back????
He’s not wanting to bring him back with the term that’s being requested. I’m willing to bet that they’re good with a 1-2 year deal… obviously Kylington’s camp is hoping for more
They’re probs looking for a 3-4 year term. I’m with ya
All he’s been through with the Flames and he didn’t leave some money on the table?
Mental health> money
Lmao downvotes
I mean, fair enough. It sounded like both sides wanted it, but I can see why there might be a decently sized gap.
Flames probably wanted a bridge to see what he really is long term, without Tanev.
He probably wanted to be paid like a top 4 D man with term.
Both are fair, but I think Conroy did the right thing in not taking that risk.