My [30M] mother in law [55F] wants to move in with us over my objections. How do I convince my wife not to let her in?

Relationships

I am not the OOP. The OOP is u/throwra727262y25 posting in r/relationship_advice

Ongoing as per OOP

Content Warning

1 update - Short

Original - 26th June 2024

Update in a comment - 27th June 2024

My [30M] mother in law [55F] wants to move in with us over my objections. How do I convince my wife not to let her in?

I met my wife [31F] 10 years ago. We dated for 3 years and then got married. She's honestly the sweetheart of my life and she's beautiful, intelligent, and is career oriented. She cares about everything.

Her mother is a different story. She had been nothing but vile towards me ever since we started dating. She would complain about I'm white instead of Asian like her daughter and would try to convince my wife to leave her.

My wife doesn't want to cut off ties with her and that's cause some conflicts. We have a 5 year old son and a 2 year old daughter and my mother in law would be quite rude to them. Her visits ended a year ago when I caught her pinching my daughter.

I kicked my mother in law out but my wife was furious that I didn't consult with her. This arguement led her to leaving me for a week to stay with her. When she finally talked to me, I told her that while she is free to have a relationship with her mother, I don't want one and neither should the kids with the mother and law and my wife reluctantly agreed.

Fast forward to 2 days ago, my mother in law lost her job and she's about to lose her home. My wife is begging for me to let her apologize to me and have her move here for a while but I remain concerned that she will try to hurt our kids. My wife won't listen to me though and is demanding that she does move in. We haven't talked much since that arguement.

How do I convince my wife to not have her mother move in with us?

Comments

Retlifon

“Your mother will never live with us. She might live with you, but not with us.”

Say it. Mean it.

OOP: Her response

"If you don't help my mom, I may not be around on earth to help you."

BackgroundBread707

Your wife doesn’t sound like such a sweetheart after all. It sounds like she takes after her mother a little more than you thought. Threatening suicide is one of the most evil manipulation tactics.

NYChockey14

So the first argument was about not consulting your wife and now your wife is doing the same thing. I’d sit down your wife and explain your concerns calmly. Explain how you haven’t had a good relationship with her and how she has disrespected you in the past. Explain how you’re concerned that she will mistreat the children. And then ask if there are other family members that can take her in

OOP: I would normally consult my wife but I was angry when I saw my mother in law hurting my daughter and I had a zero tolerance policy on abuse.

I brought up my concerns and she still thinks she changed. She has no other family members. Her father died a long time ago, she's the only sibling, and she doesn't have aunts or uncles. I did offer a cheaper apartment but my wife won't listen to me on that

NYChockey14

What is the “back up plan” if you let her move in and then catch her abusing your kids? Will your wife ignore it and let her stay no matter what?

OOP: I'm not letting her move in. She's honestly become so focused on her moving in that she told me she would rather commit suicide than turn her away

NYChockey14

That is a major red flag. Either she’s serious and needs mental health help, or she’s using self harm as a manipulation tactic

OOP: I even told her to stop talking about suicide but she says she can't stand to see her mother out there alone

Huntress145

then she can go live her mother and you stay with the kids and divorce her. This is a hard line, but it needs to be taken because your children's safety is at risk. If your wife is more concerned about her abusive adult mother than her children, she's made her choice and you need to make yours and it needs to be your children. Period

ETA: Also, if keeps threatening suicide to manipulate you, take her to the hospital. Don’t play her game. It’s time to rethink your marriage with her.

OOP: I will never let her mother in. Im trying to save this Marriage without her divorcing or killing herself

Huntress145

I understand that. Unfortunately, if she’s not willing to understand that, you may have to divorce her for sake of your children.

Update - 1 days later

Update: Thank you guys for helping me out.

I sent the kids over to my sister's house for the night as i didnt want them to witness a fight. I again told my wife that her mom can't stay with us and that our son in particular trembles around her. She again threatened suicide and that's when I called 911. She then went hysterical and tried to grab a knife but I was thankfully able to stop her from harming herself. She's currently on a 72 hour hold and I will be meeting with a lawyer about custody as I have evidence from her texts and security footage. It's so damn painful and I now have to explain to our kids about why I'm divorcing her

Comments

Mindless-Witness-825

Thank you for protecting your children! You sound like a great dad.

ThrowRA1234568

You may want to talk to your lawyer about getting a temporary restraining order to keep your wife away from the kids and the house until you can get something more firm in place as far as custody. I know people make fun of Reddit for suggesting protection orders so quickly, but it's not a stretch for a suicidal mom to decide to take her kids with her when she kills herself. Unfortunately happens every year.

Because as soon as her hold expires she 's still legally entitled to custody of and access to the children. It's up to you to prevent that.

Source: am lawyer.

I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.

in BORUpdatesby SharkEvaAll the grace of a cow on stilts 🐄

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I don't have kids, but I've heard trying to kill yourself for the sake of your mother isn't normal parenting.

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It's a manipulation tactic OP's wife no doubt learned from her mother.

Every_Trust5874

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Unfortunately it is a very common manipulation tactic among Asian women. Source; I am a 2nd gen Asian immigrant, and my mom threatens suicide at least monthly.

328

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Yup. Asian immigrant also and we see it all the time 🙄

282

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Just Asian not even immigrant, Have had it used against me a lot of times. Its almost a cultural abusive tactic that pass through families and generations

250

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I'm Jewish. There it's traditional to (threaten to) cut people out of the will, often several times. My grandparents would cut their children (my parents were one) out of the will either for slights they perceived from the children or the grandchildren. We couldn't even remember who was out or in or sometimes out several times in a row. And we kids would use it in play: "if you don't throw me the ball, I will cut you out of the will!"

The grandparents were actually kind of cool people and Grandpa was an old vaudeville actor so he would sing, do a shuffle dance, and play elaborate jokes that were often really funny. When they finally died, the will left everyone in and had obviously never been altered in decades.

Cloudinthesilver

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I’m British. If we’re mad at each other we don’t tell them we just stop calling for two weeks and then pretend it never happened.

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I'm Scottish, it's fight or fuck off with my lot lol.

19

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Brazilian here, it's a shoe or hot springs.

7

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Hot springs? Don't threaten me with a good time.

Why in the world hot springs?

Continue thread...

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Amen to that!

As a Scottish guy, I can tell you ALL of the domestic troubles of every single one of my neighbours!

Easy to hear them through the wall, or in the street.... or 2 miles down the road....

JaneAustinAstronaut

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My Irish-American side of the family is like this, except we just stop calling you forever.

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You must be in my family tree somewhere. My family holds grudges like you would not believe. I once found a book about my ancestors. They were a very, very early part of the settling of the US and even then, there were stories of grudges and feelings being hurt. One man felt he was insulted one day in his church and he went from being a pillar of that church to never ever setting foot inside of one again until he died. So, my family. ~400 years of grudge keeping.

One of my aunts didn't speak to her sister for over 20 years because they had made fun of her perm LOL

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My cousin (uncle’s son) started calling my mom and her two sisters The Witches of Eastwick because of how nasty they were to his stepmom, who they didn’t like (she wasn’t great but they were AWFUL.) I felt bad for laughing, but…no lies detected. (Another big Irish family.)

Continue thread...

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Can confirm. I wait until they die and then I'll drink a shot of whisky and say a prayer for their soul.

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Interesting, I would have guessed threating a strongly worded letter. Shows how much I know.

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Calm down there, Satan, and watch some British TV

Cloudinthesilver

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We save those for people who aren’t family

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Ah, we have a variant. If we feel you took too many bagels at my fourth cousins' bar mitzvah 20 years ago, we stay secretly mad at you to show you! We only tell others, but never the person themselves. This shows them!

tinykitchentyrant

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My family of origin is Roman Catholic on both sides. There's just lots of guilt trips. So. Many. Guilt. Trips. I was going to add in "passive aggressive" but with my mom it's mostly just aggressive.

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Lol my grandparents were poor so they only ever threatened to put people IN the will so they'd inherit the debts! 🤣

MedievalMissFit

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🤣🤣🤣 you had me rolling!

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Oh, interesting! I never knew it was common to do that in Jewish culture.

My mom always used to threaten to cut a misbehave-er out of the will (there were 3 of us kids). Her dad/my Grandpa was Jewish...

I honestly didn't know him that well. My mom cut contact with all her family when I was about 12, tho dad would take us for secret visits once or twice a year. (To be fair to dad on that, tho, Mom was schizophrenic and her reason for cutting out her parents was that they were "trying to kill her" and were stealing her already-opened cleaning supplies and canned food, none of which were true.)

After her cutting them off, her dad actually did write her out of the will. But he tried for decades to get her to let them back in, and if she had maybe he'd have changed it back.

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I actually did get cut out of the will and then my dad died before he had a chance to change it back. Oops.

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My grandmother actually did cut me and my sisters out of her will lol. We did not care.

Party_Cicada_914

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Jewish and we also joke about “That’s it! You’re out of the will!” But it’s just a joke. Our will leaves everything to all the kids equally.

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We set up irrevocable trusts for the kids. They don't know that they already own a decent portion of the estate and that we simply control the income from it while we're alive. Our daughters don't know that we are fairly well off because we didn't want them to get lazy. This is despite also yearly contributing money to an investment fund in each's name that they decide where to invest (but are only to use for housing or not to use until age 50). We did this to get them in the habit of saving and investing and it has worked quite well. During covid, the oldest worked remote and moved back home. I told her "no rent, free food, but you must invest your savings from this". At the end, I asked to see. She had been saving 70% of her salary! Love that. She also got the family into Tesla and NVidia years ago and they all save and invest.

The kids haven't put 2&2 together. After we spent waaaay too much on a remodel, the oldest thinks we're now at the edge of ruin and wants to earn enough to take care of us ... despite us taking the family on an expensive vacation this year. I told her "You won't have to support us" and then she asked "Why? You've overspent on college, the house, and these vacations." I wouldn't tell her how much we have ... but I did startups and was lucky on some investments and she even once worked for one of those startup investments that's gotten big. Still, they don't really put it together. Instead, we'll probably start focusing on a charitable trust that they'll get to take over. I'm thinking one that focuses on bio-diversity in natural and food systems, that's a useful long-term quest that can function past advances in AI and energy sources, can support research and agriculture etc.

Party_Cicada_914

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Take a look at Arc of Appalachia. Doing great work in the biodiversity space.

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I grew up in a WASP-y house and my dad semi-regularly threatened to cut me out of the will. The suggestion of a nose ring or tattoos was met with the reply that we’d be disowned. Now he’s got tenuous relationships with two of his three adult kids. It was just a pathetic control tactic, we’ve never been taken out of any will.

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I didn’t realize this was specifically a Jewish thing/so common among us that it has the perception of being a “Jewish thing” (source, also Jewish).

My grandpa does this (or he did, now he’s late stage Alzheimer’s with some other health issues and basically catatonic) and we all kind of rolled our eyes and were like “okay, sure”.

Now I’m wondering how many other little cultural things that I assumed were universal were actually just Jewish, or the other way around.

One of the big cultural shocks of my life was realizing that gentiles think sour cream and apple sauce is a weird combo 😂

Chemical_Inspection7

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My bigger thing has always been my non Jewish friends weird obsession with matzah. I don't and will never understand the love of it.

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I'm picturing your grandpa as George Burns and am jealous.

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Yup, my grandmother did it to her kids and my mom did it to my sister and I. I will not be doing that to my daughter

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White here, my mother pulled this shit all the time.

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White here too. My mom used to threaten suicide until I got tired of her shit and told her, "Please do. My life will be a lot easier."

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Man I wish I had been able to do that (most of the suicide threats were when I was a kid). Her most recent thing (before I finally managed to go no contact with her) was her having a tantrum over something, screaming and yelling, and then telling me she's reached the point where she might need to go to a therapist and be put on antidepressants- like it was some sort of threat. I told her good, you should do that. Then she screamed some more.

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I was in my 30s when I finally reached my breaking point. I should have just kicked her out, but the enmeshment is a thing.

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Yup, right there with you.

_coolbluewater_

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I thought I was alone in this. My mother has said “I wish I were dead” to me so many times that it doesn’t even register

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Same here. She says it like once a month. When she looks for a fight, she would even describe it like "do you want me to jump off the building?", "I wish I didn't wake up in the morning", "It's better if I should die" while miming her finger cross the neck. Then she cries and get mad when I confront her about it.

I don't think it's cultural in my case tho. I think she's bipolar but refuses to get diagnosed coz Asian stigma against mental health.

usernotfoundplstry

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I’m white but my mom has done this to me in my teenage years. The last time she said it, I said “remember, it’s vertical and not horizontal, and you should lay down a tarp or something because I’m not cleaning up your mess.”

That was the last time she ever said that, it’s been 25 years now. She knew that she was doing it to get her way and she’d cried wolf too many times and I was done. I was very low contact with her for almost two decades after that. We talk now but aren’t close and she does appear to be on the proper cocktail of medication now and seems much better.

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The others were talking about killing themselves as a manipulative tactic. Telling your kid to kill themselves and buying razor blades then throwing them at you is fucked up. I hope you’re in much better place and no contact with her.

Shae_Dravenmore

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remember, it’s vertical and not horizontal,

"Down the road, not across the street."

I learned that shit in high school in theater. Kids are fucked up, man 😂

(Context, we were putting on Antigone, and used wrist cutting for the suicide scene.)

SugarSweetSonny

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It is, but when the tactic doesn't work...the escalation goes into a weird degree.

While I am asian. My parents never did it with me. They had friends who did it with their kids.

A couple of them straight up "called their bluff" and it was like a nuclear war explosion.

One funny thing, my parents friends asked my parents why they don't say that with me.

My mother implied I was psychotic and my father implied that I was sadistic, LOL.

I am not, but I thought it was hilarious that they went that route.

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Not weird, dangerous. Cause once they realise they can't bluff? I'm not saying that they would but if that's the case, let them do the deed but make bloody sure no one else gets dragged along, like the kids

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I think I'd always turn it right back on them.

"If I don't get my way on this, I'm going to kill myself!"

"Well, if I don't get MY way on this, imma kill MYself!" While staring straight in her eyes. Mexican Suicide Standoff achieved.

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Eh, if it's a culture clash go the American way instead:
"If I don't get my way, I'm going to kill you!"

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Or the passive aggressive way:

"If I don't get my way on this, I'm going to kill myself!"

"Good."

Representative_Ad902

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Hahhahahaha

StragglingShadow

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Ah literacy. Thou art a cruel bitch

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Thats......really really sad to me. I've been passively suicidal most of my life and a actively suicidal several times. It hurts to tell people when I go from passively considering it to seriously considering it. The thought someone can say it so casually.....can grab a weapon and point it at themselves so casually.....that's so sad.

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Except for Omar

5d

Here's another part of it too, Asian culture is very superstitious when it comes to death. If someone dies because of you, that's bad karma.

Like the implied threat is also, "My ghost will haunt you and make your life hell and you will never be happy again because YOU PUT ME TO THIS POINT!"

StragglingShadow

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Ah literacy. Thou art a cruel bitch

5d

That's less sad and more horrible. I hope people who have that happen to them are able to heal and realize it was one final manipulation tactic from their abuser to ensure the abuser won - at all costs.

JaneAustinAstronaut

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I was going to say this. My dad married a wonderful Chinese lady who grew up in Beijing 20 years ago (seriously, my stepmother is amazing and my dad knows he will be disowned if he ever divorces her).

She had a niece who came to the US for college and threatened to KHS. The college took it seriously and sent her to a psych ward. My dad and stepmom were the closest relatives to her, and they had to go and explain to the doctors that this was common in Asian countries and was not a legitimate threat to self-harm. They did wind up getting her out, and she learned not to say things like this so flippantly.

ContributionOrnery29

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Then she should be spending the majority of her time under the supervision of doctors until she stops being so histrionic. If we put a significant proportion of elderly Asian women into the mental health system and charged them for it, everyone would enjoy much better standards of mental healthcare as a result. Tolerating that bullshit is actively harmful to society well beyond simply removing such people from the dating pool.

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Well, she's terrible at follow through, then.

Or, you know, really good at it, since she's still around.

^{This comment is meant to be humorous, not attacking.}

Mogura-De-Gifdu

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Oh, I have an Asian husband who also does this regularly. To just ride into a wall. Even when I and the kids are in the car, steering violently the wheel. Generally it's because I refuse to take his verbal abuse silently. I tried to ask just how he was brought up to think this was even remotely acceptable (and I say that having a father who tried to strangle my mother when she asked for divorce over his multiple cheating), but then I'm insulting his parents and of course it's my fault if he's angry.

I so hate him for that, and for refusing to consult a therapist.

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It’s time to put yourself and your kids first, when you hate your verbally abusive, emotionally abusive husband.

Mogura-De-Gifdu

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Well, I don't always hate him, just when he does that. So now I just call the cops and give them his licence plate.

For the rest, I'll still give him some leeway: he lost his father brutally during covid (so couldn't even see him during the last few months as we were in different countries) and is still pretty traumatised by that. He's slowly getting better and the frequency has diminished, it "just" happens when he's in stressful situations.

So I'll continue to not accept being talked badly and hold him accountable for it, even if that ends up with him threatening suicide. Plus, for now I don't believe him. And anyway I'm a half-full glass kind of person, so even if he did die, I guess at least the mortgages would be fully paid by the assurances and so we wouldn't have to worry about where we'd live (for now I'd even have two appartements as we've just moved and have not yet sold the old one).

Hari_om_tat_sat

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Oooohhhh! You just unlocked an ugly memory. Years ago, my BIL emotionally abused my sister. If she opposed him in any way it would turn into a huge fight that always ended with him slamming out of their flat, getting in his car and speeding down the highway. He’d come home all smug and satisfied to find his wife and small children huddled together, crying in fear that he might have gotten into a car accident.

My sister called me during one of these episodes crying that he had just left. Yeah, right. The coward was terrified of getting a speeding ticket, there was no way he was careening down the highway. He was gaslighting her. I told her to take the kids to a movie. Let the bastard come home to an empty flat just once and I guaranteed he would never pull that shit again. She didn’t take my advice. But the next time he tried another favorite trick, pretending he was having a heart attack. For once, it didn’t work. Sis ignored him so he drove himself to the ER. He came back with some Rx drugs — maybe he really did go. But he never faked another heart attack or pulled the speeding shit again.

You’ve got to call their bluffs or they will never stop.

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This is a VERY common abuse tactic. Please consider getting away from him.

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How do your children react when he is driving dangerously? I assume he raises his voice too, how do they react to that? It’s great that you want to stick by him as he goes through a hard time, but you have other people to think about too, and they are almost certainly being done permanent damage by this situation.

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Right? Some leeway for his Dad trauma, sure but not instilling fresh new Dad trauma onto his own kids

FancyPantsDancer

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That and if he's driving recklessly, I think it's only a matter of when until he causes an accident. Hopefully, it'll be like scratch on the car and not something worse.

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Sorry, so you give him leeway, while he traumatizes your children with his behaviour.

So that in 15-20 years your children will be there repeating the cycle of abuse, either accepting abuse from the partner as normal, or being abusive themselves.

I know that in certain situations there is no way to win, but while you and your husband are adults, I imagine your children are not. They can't defend themselves. They are the most vulnerable. Their wellbeing and mental health should be the priority.

But neither you nor your husband care for them enough to take them out of such situation.

S_Wow_Titty_Bang

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...you're teaching your children that accepting verbal abuse is okay. Would you want your daughter's husband to treat her the way he treats you?

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Sorry but you need to stop seeing the glass as half full. From what you have said it is very, VERY clear he is going to kill you and your kids.

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Make sure his life insurance pays even in the instance of suicide.

I also think you may be deluding yourself, but I understand. Please stop letting him drive with you and the kids in the car.

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Dude. He’s threatening to kill your kids too. You’re enabling his horrible behavior and are absolutely blind to how this is affecting your kids. You’re almost as bad as he is.

Useful_Language2040

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Let's say he does this, one more time, and once again it's just meant as a bluff to scare you into submission, but this time there's a curve in the road and around the bend there is a lorry. He doesn't know it's there until the car's slamming into the side, then bouncing off and hitting something on the other side.

Doing it once is one times too many. He is risking your life, your children's lives, and the lives of strangers who just happen to be on the same stretch of road at you at the same time.

The verbal abuse is not OK, especially not in front of the kids. Do you want your sons talking like that to people they supposedly love? Your daughters thinking people can talk to them like that? Doing things to endanger you all is not OK.

Even if he's just trying to scare and bully you, (a) that's messed up and not OK, and (b) he's doing things that could result in your death.

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I was going to say this is definitely a Tiger Mom thing. But pointing out how it’s an outdated/horrible ethnic issue means you get called racist nowadays for pointing out the horrible aspects of tradition/honor.

FriesWithShakeBooty

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It depends on if you're part of the culture or not. In my experience, when people outside of the culture bring it up, it's usually with a measure of arrogance as if their group is never messy.

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Fair take.

blanketstatement5

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Your comment would make more sense if a single person had called it racist. As it is you're playing the victim for no apparent reason.

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I get what you mean by that but at the same time, you don’t expect to ever be the 1:100 when you ALWAYS see the 99.

MedievalMissFit

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Ouch! I'm sorry you were subjected to such heinous psychological manipulation and abuse.

lewdpotatobread

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I was 8 when I told my grandma I was going to go play outside. She came back with a knife and threatened to stab herself if I didn't stay home to be lectured about religion from her. Yay trauma

PuzzleheadedTap4484

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My grandmother used to use that as a tactic. We called it emotional blackmail but I now know it’s abuse. I remember her flipping her shit the day it didn’t work on me and my brother. Then she tried to bribe with money.

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Yeah, it is emotional blackmail, which is manipulation.

PuzzleheadedTap4484

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My mom started breaking that manipulation cycle when she had us but would default to it. I broke it after having my kids but it took a few years. When my kids were much younger, I remember hearing the same manipulative phrases come out of my mouth, not threatening suic!de but being emotionally and verbally abusive. It would spill out of my mouth without me thinking about it, and I remembered afterwards when my kids were crying, how that had made me feel in that position and remembering what it felt like as a kid. I felt like I failed my kids and I vowed to break the cycle. So 3 years of therapy and I parent completely different than my mom or my grandmother. My kids went to therapy too. My kids are less anxious (outside the normal kid stuff) and happier, I’m happier, we communicate really well and we are really close as a family unit.

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Kids always seem to be put right in the middle. It's unfair because they have no say. I'm sorry this happened to you.

PuzzleheadedTap4484

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Yes exactly. And it affects you growing up in ways you don’t realize until you have kids. My mom started breaking that manipulation cycle when she had us but would default to it. I broke it after having my kids but it took a few years before I got help. When my kids were much younger, I remember hearing the same manipulative phrases, not threatening suic!de but being emotionally and verbally abusive. It would spill out of my mouth without me thinking about it, and I remembered afterwards when my kids were crying, how that had made me feel in that position and remembering what it felt like as a kid. I felt like I failed my kids and I vowed to break the cycle. So 3 years of therapy and I parent completely different than my mom or my grandmother. My kids went to therapy too. My kids are less anxious (outside the normal kid stuff) and happier, I’m happier, we communicate really well and we are really close as a family unit.

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Apple really didn’t fall far from the tree did it.

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I have a sibling who used to manipulate us by threatening to unalive themselves if they weren't getting attention or getting their own way. Called their bluff and ended up calling 911. Let's just say they haven't done it since.

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People always get mad at me for saying it, but the apple never falls to far from the tree. Like I hate my Dad, I think my Dad is crazy, I haven't spoken to my Dad in a few years even, but I still have a lot of my Dad's negative traits that I am struggling to break.

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It’s an Asian thing for sure there’s a saying in Chinese that sums it up as

“1. Cry 2. Make a ruckus 3. Hang oneself”

Which are the tactics that women resort to when they manipulate people in their lives. It’s usually used in reference to controlling mothers😑

CallHimFisterRoboto

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Seems like a problem that will resolve itself if you're patient.

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Yeap, best to let them do the deed instead of being held hostage. That being said, better make sure no one else gets dragged along, like the kids.

FaustsAccountant

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So wife claims MIL has no one else, wife threatens to unalive herself….leave MIL for certain alone. That’s not exactly the logic of a sane person.

Sound like MIL has brainwashed wife their whole life.

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it makes sense if the main reason she wants to acquiesce to her mother is to avoid being made to feel guilty about it. as an adult child of a manipulative mother, i can relate. but those thoughts are for therapy, not for bringing up during conflict.

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Have 2 kids, can confirm

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This is like peak Asian mother manipulation. I'm Asian trust me on this

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🤣🤣🤣

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Go spend some time on r/asianparentstories

6

5d

Sounds counterintuitive, doesn’t it?

StructureKey2739

4

5d

Not to mention threatening suicide as a manipulation tactic is ridiculous. If she kills herself, how does that help her mother.

P1neappl3onmyp1zza

4

5d

I’ve considered killing myself because of my mother. Is that normal?

3

5d

it seems like a low success rate, but then again, depends if your mom likes you or not.

Admirable-Lie-9191

590

5d

Because I KNOW some people are going to call this fake or rage bait just because it’s a cultural shock to them, Asian families can definitely have this level of enmeshment.

I’m not really surprised

219

5d

this is a sad truth among Asian countries. It also factors in that wife is seen as MIL’s caretaker according to society’s standards. People will shun females for not stepping up to take care of their parents when they are old.

OP should really follow the last comment’s advice.

Admirable-Lie-9191

67

5d

Yeah there’s pressure on sons but daughters get more

73

5d

in my old rural conservative community, sons pay up, daughters show up.

Admirable-Lie-9191

21

5d

Yeah I didn’t add that part to my comment but that’s basically the way with super conservative places

31

5d

I did end of life care for my grandmother with my mom. I think since women are seen as the natural nurturing sex because of children they definitely have that expectation shoveled onto them. But it is definitely wrong, it doesn't sound like Mom needs end of life care yet, but I can promise it is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. Doing it myself has made me very conscious about never putting my expectations for something like that onto anyone else, man or woman. I feel for OP, he lost his wife and his family is broken up all because her evil mother couldn't live in an apartment.

Imaginary-Nebula1778

2

5d

Then if one married someone from another culture. This is a topic that needs to be discussed a lot before a marriage.

52

5d

Still incredibly sad that wifey is willing to allow mommy dearest to abuse her children in preference to helping her find a new job and stable, alternate accommodation,

14

5d

And that she preferred to blow up her marriage and kids' lives rather than just say no

44

5d

Our poor (well off) Asian family in the neighborhood. One day, the wife's parents just showed up and expected to be taken in. They had said they wanted to visit their grandkids in America (the kids were often in China for the Summer) but really they just decided to move in. It put quite a strain on them. They never learned English and the father was often seen in the neighborhood slowly riding a 3 wheel bike. The family eventually built a kitchen and room onto the house to accommodate them. When it was done, they lived there for only a few months and then just decided to move back to China.

Glittering_Candy4419

41

5d

They didn’t want to live in a room, they wanted to live in their house and meddle with family affairs

7

5d

I expect so. You've ruined our perfect good retirement hobby, to make you miserable.

14

5d

People deadass follow this sub just to call everything fake that even remotely exists outside of their privileged world view

It’s a wild existence to live tbh

Elegant_Bluebird1283

10

5d

My fave was when someone posted about going on vacation and a commenter called the post bullshit because the OP was in an airport.

Admirable-Lie-9191

2

5d

Hahahahaha no way

6

5d

Totally true. I have seen this stuff being pulled by my aunt. Wild.

FriesWithShakeBooty

165

5d

Filial piety is one heck of a poison.

I'm glad OOP is doing the right thing and leaving her. He's not just saving them from instability in the now: he's helping to ensure his MIL's behavior is not continued through his stbx to their children.

MyFriendsCallMeEpic

119

Oh, so you're stupid stupid

5d

what that last lawyer said is true though
It was years ago, but there was that story where the lady killed her self and her 3? kids after the husband had her served with divorce papers
or something very close to that, its been years since ive seen that one.

OOP has to do what he must to ensure the lives and mental wellbeing of his kids now

MyFriendsCallMeEpic

76

Oh, so you're stupid stupid

5d

https://www.reddit.com/r/MuseumOfReddit/comments/ubne00/the_post_that_led_to_the_real_life_tragedy_of_a/

I think its this one, I skimmed it.
90% sure it is, its pretty dark. BE WARNED this is fkn dark.

30

5d

FFS - Thanks for the warning, but it was worse than I imagined.

MyFriendsCallMeEpic

22

Oh, so you're stupid stupid

5d

I stupidly read it again
I knew I shouldnt have, I skimmed it originally knowing I didnt want to again read it
I couldnt help my self and now im sitting here all... I dont know what im feeling.
urgh.

21

5d

I’m gonna take these warnings and NOT click that link

15

5d

This is the only story I remember the users name for “jasoninhell” has come across my thoughts so many times. I almost wanted to reread it but just the username alone was like a trigger.

That poor man :(

8

5d

The one I always remember is "fuckyourcoconut." Which was just as awful.

Erick_Brimstone

9

5d

It's really dark and very real. Her parents are also the worst.

James_Gastovsky

9

5d

Absolutely horrifying, over the years I've met a couple of women like that and now I shudder to think what they might be capable of

4

5d

Holy shit. I wonder how he’s doing today? That’s beyond horrific. I’m at a loss for words. 😔

LightThatShines

41

5d

My friend had a family (husband, wife, son) who lived in her town, the wife/mother threatened the husband and said she would kill her son before she let him take him away from her, she pulled a gun on him, making him get out of the house, he ran next door to get help, and during that time she drowned her son. This happened just a couple of weeks ago (if that). I really hope he keeps his kids protected because sick people have and will do this to their kids, just to spite their spouse. It’s sick.

MyFriendsCallMeEpic

12

Oh, so you're stupid stupid

5d

Im so sorry to hear that!
I hope your friend is doing ok.

LightThatShines

21

5d

She actually knew the family. They apparently tried for their baby for 5 years before they were able to conceive. She has a baby herself, and it hit her very hard (it’s a horrible thing to have happened, especially when you know the people who did it/it happened to).

13

5d

It’s happened as far back as the 1800s, when divorce became a thing in the UK. My favorite podcast, Lucy Worsley’s Lady Killers, did an episode on it. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lady-killers-with-lucy-worsley/id1620155570?i=1000640957386

12

5d

Unfortunately, some commentors are saying it's a bluff and that OOP should just call it out as it is.

It feels like they glossed over the fact she held a knife. That's stuff you don't mess around. She's dangerous.

MyFriendsCallMeEpic

6

Oh, so you're stupid stupid

5d

This is absolutely something that you don't want to fuck around and find out about.

8

5d

Absolutely, the moment someone's "bluff" starts to involve car rides like speeding or dangerous items like a knife or gun. Doesn't matter if they were bluffing.

That crap has a higher chance to get someone hurt, even a lost life sometimes

215

5d

Threatening suicide is such a classic Asian manipulation tactic. Glad he called her bluff. (I'm Asian btw)

84

5d

It happens a lot in Europe too. I think it might just be an abuser thing

75

5d

it's a universal abuser thing. practically, abuse looks almost identical everywhere in the world. the main difference is the way it's 'styled', i.e. what social constructs are they using as a framework to justify their actions to themselves and others.

51

5d

Unfortunately, I don't think it will be a bluff anymore since she actually took a knife in front of OOP.

If anything I won't trust the kids around her. There's no telling what she'll do to "win"

90

5d

No, until she actually uses the knife on herself it’s still a bluff. My mom grabbed a bottle of pills but never actually took them. Because she counted on my dad stopping her, which he did. Just like OP did.

41

5d

Understood, however I still think he should get primary custody and not allow the kids to be with her cause if she can't hurt herself, me doubts she won't hurt the children.

That being said, even if its a bluff, someone dangerously handling a knife isn't something I can just sit around for. I'll be metres away cause well, accidents happen.

Dear lord, was the knife actually to hurt OOP not herself?

35

5d

I agree he should take the kids. I don’t think she was trying to hurt him. I think she was just trying to up the ante on the manipulation.

3

5d

Since she was just bluffing, would it be ok for her to be around the kids tho?

34

5d

She shouldn’t have it both ways. If she’s going to threaten self-harm, she shouldn’t get the kids, regardless if she’s bluffing or not.

8

5d

There's no way to know for certain and she can always change her mind later and decide to actually harm herself or others. But we can still be pretty sure she's bluffing and at the same time too dangerous.

17

5d

Knowing the Asian mindset, it's more like "I'm doing all of these so YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO MEEEEEEE" kind of deal. Extremely dumb? Yes. Works most of the time? Yeeeep.

5

5d

Yeah but the moment a dangerous tool os wielded that's it for me. There's a reason safety schools warn people not to mess around with knives.

Erick_Brimstone

3

5d

Could still be bluffing.

Therefore, to prevent the worst case scenario that she isn't bluffing OOP should put her on psychiatric hold or something. You know, the ones where you hold people who want to kill themselves to make sure they don't do it.

5

5d

OOP did do that.

6

5d

Which thank god he did. At least he now knows unless a miracle happen, divorce is unfortunately on the table

Imaginary-Nebula1778

5

5d

African here relating. I remember taking a bottle of pills and dumping them out the window in fear she would do it. It's terrible when parents pull this on elementary school age kids.

FunctionAggressive75

15

5d

I agree with the "bluff"

She only became "suicidal" when she couldn't get her way

Thankfully, now not only her mother will not step into the house but neither she

Longjumping-Pick-706

7

5d

That was nothing more than manipulation. He was right there. If she was serious that knife would be in her neck.

5

5d

That knife could’ve gone into either of them.

mi_nombre_es_ricardo

3

5d

Thank god I’m a narcisist. I’m immune to that brand of manipulation.

99

5d

The wife would rather commit suicide than see the woman who has traumatized and abused her own children homeless?

She's the product of lifelong abuse, but you can't risk harm to your kids while she gets her shit together, and it doesn't sound like she's ready to stay doing that.

Erick_Brimstone

21

5d

Have a racist in law or parents is one thing. Wanting them to be in your life because "family" is nothing but wrong thing.

19

5d

Not homeless, OOP suggested they pay for her to live in an apartment.

JustAsICanBeSoCruel

42

5d

Well, I doubt that's the end of this story. What an absolute mess, but at least OOP seems to have his head on straight and is tackling this as strongly as this horrible situation deserves.

Hopefully his ex gets the help she needs and everyone stays safe.

Imaginary-Nebula1778

39

5d

Good on OP for calling 911. This whole situation is difficult and I wish everyone especially the kids the best outcome

RockportAries1971

21

5d

This poor man!! I hope he and his children are safe. Hopefully his lawyer can rush through a protective order and file for emergency custody of the kids because the wife is unstable and the MIL is abusive SMH!! I hope he changes the locks and installs security cameras everywhere... Updateme please

3

5d

I will message you next time u/SharkEva posts in r/BORUpdates.

Click this link to join 17 others and be messaged. The parent author can delete this post

^Info	^{Request Update}	^{Your Updates}	^Feedback

Glittersparkles7

19

5d

Deleted account so we may never get a final update 😢 I hope he follows through with the divorce and gets full custody

9

5d

Well it could be at the advice if his lawyer with the upcoming divorce that or the story was fake the guy didn't want to be caught. At least the ending is hopeful

18

5d

what the actual fuck

16

Dildo and 2 flags

5d

I had an ex who threatened suicide more then once when I tried to leave. By the end I was so sick of it the last time he did it I said "okay do it." And he said he was gonna wait for me to leave and I said "no don't be a pussy. Do it now I wanna watch." Guess who shut the fuck up and never brought it up again. I left him by age 19 thank god

existencedeclined

5

5d

I told my ex "I don't care".

Because I didn't.

He threatened suicide more than once when I tried to leave him ironically for manipulative behavior and by the 3rd time I just didn't care anymore.

13

5d

In the first post OP said she (wife) was a sweetheart, intelligent, and cares about everything… I wonder if this was out of the blue/new behaviour, or more like the rose tinted glasses coming off and OP seeing his wife’s true colours coming through. If the former, hopefully the psychiatric hold gives her time to be evaluated and perhaps medication or other treatment is needed. If the latter, thank goodness he got his children away safely.

9

5d

I’m guessing rose tinted glasses

Outsourced_Ninja

14

5d

Letting your mom walk over you? I mean, you should stand up for yourself and your partner / children, but I at least get where that's coming from.

But letting her abuse your children? Nu-uh, that's a deal-breaker. Anything less is enabling it to happen.

butterpiescottish

11

5d

Reading this I can only remember the JasonInHell case. It gave me goosebumps just reading it.

Prestigious-Apple425

6

5d

Someone linked it further up and I clicked. Farrrk

8

5d

Why do I have the feeling that the wife played the exact same card her mother did? I'll bet you dollars to donuts OOP's wife was told by her mother that she'd kill herself if she didn't move in with OOP and his family. It would explain the (very obvious) breakdown OOP's wife is having.

There's something about your early 30s; it seems to be the age where most of us can no longer run from our trauma and it hits us like a Mack truck. What's really the scariest part of all of this is that OOP's wife knows her mother abuses her grandchildren and doesn't care. That's how desperate she is for her mother to love her.

Oof.

5

5d

Well, that escalated quickly!

I don’t understand the logic behind trying to force your spouse to let someone else into their safe space, when there are other options available.

It really must be a mental health issue.

8

5d

My heart goes to OOP and his children. MiL is a nightmare and wife is willing to set her entire family on fire to keep her mom happy. I hope he'll be able to divorce her quickly.

peppermintvalet

6

She made the produce wildly uncomfortable

5d

Filial piety without boundaries is a disease imo

mi_nombre_es_ricardo

6

5d

I remember this case of a guy who posted here about his wife being caught cheating, and when he wanted to kick her out she killed her children. It was on the news, the guy shared his story here on Reddit.

OOP needs to take every measure posible to keep his children safe. If that means lock her up on a mental ward, so be it.

7

5d

Well damn, that escalated!

OOP needs emergency custody, and his wife can go live with her mom.

ObsidianConspiracyXx

6

5d

Not only did his wife choose her mother over him, she chose her mother over her kids. Those papers should've been filed a year ago.

5

5d

Had a similar situation with my wife and her brother. He was about to be homeless because of his opoid and alcohol addiction. She wanted him to move in with us, even though he was known for stealing, selling drugs, and you know, standard addiction behavior stuff.

We fought for DAYS since I told her under no circumstance would he be living with us. Thankfully him being homeless was his rock bottom so he agreed to go to rehab. He's 8 years clean, has a beautofuo wife, a home, good job, one kid and one on the way. Were very proud of him.

Those who are going through this with a loved one, sometimes the best thing for your loved one is to love them from a distance. Most of the things we do to help are actually enabling them further, or aren't going to help long term and just adds to your own misery.

But you have to be prepared for the worst possible outcomes when they hit rock bottom. Death, homelessness, jail, etc. But it's NOT your fault. They need to want to get better on their own.

7

5d

I met my wife [31F] 10 years ago. We dated for 3 years and then got married. She's honestly the sweetheart of my life and she's beautiful, intelligent, and is career oriented. She cares about everything.

Le sigh.

I honestly feel bad for the guy, I'm definitely sure there were no obvious red flags or she kept them hidden enough. The fact the she "tried" to commit suicide in front of OOP is probably one of the times the masks slip.

Her mother is a different story.

Why do I have a feeling the apple didn't fall from the tree? Quite a mystery indeed. /s

8

5d

OOP should read the skeleton key posts.

3

5d

Just as another data point, I’ve lost count of how many times my Chinese mom threatened to kill herself when I was young to try to manipulate me and my sisters, often grabbing a knife, scissors or rope. She never did follow through with it and not sure how common it is with Asian households since I never spoke to my friends and other family about it.

Fredrick_Hophead

4

5d

Sounds like some cultural habits are colliding. As a person that is 55, I would rather die than admit defeat at living and move in with my kids. I would rather live in a box. Now lets say I am 70 and I hand over a bunch of money to my kid and say "can I have a room and some internet?"

That is a different story. I pay my way. Even if my wheels are falling off my wheelchair I pay my way however I can.

herecomes_the_sun

4

5d

Threatening to kill yourself if your partner doesnt do what you want is abuse. Straight up. To keep you in a bad relationship out of guilt and obligation. I hope OP gets out and protects those kids from his partners abuse

Gold-Marigold649

8

5d

She will never leave. She will influence your wife, it will be both of them against you. She also won't change her behavior in the long-run.

3

5d

Wow, I guess in this case, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. I’m glad that there’s one sensible adult in this whole ordeal to advocate for the kids.

JaneAustinAstronaut

3

5d

I cannot fathom loving an asshole adult relative more than I love my kids. And yes, I am the product of manipulative, neglectful, abusive parents who were masters at guilt-tripping me, so I get that it is hard to come to terms with never being good enough for your parents.

But there's this gut instinct that I have to protect my kids AT ALL COSTS from ANY adult. Idk, maybe I'm built differently, but I will never sacrifice my kids for my parents' approval.

AtomicBlastCandy

3

5d

Scary fucking behavior.

There's a sad story near me about a young Hmong couple. Husband got angry and threatened to kill himself, and does so. His family start bashing his now widowed wife so bad that she took the kids and drowned them and then drowned herself.

Southern_Bicycle8111

2

5d

Her mom got what she wanted

Management-Late

2

5d

Holy shit, that woman is unhinged. Both of them are.

But to know your parent is physically abusing your kid and still choosing to move them in? Nah, buh bye.

In NJ 3 days ago, a highly educated woman with a known psychiatric history drowned her two young babies. The family knew she was troubled.

I blame them more than her. But I blame her too, just like this guy's wife.

2

5d

So she’s gonna lose custody of the kids in the divorce right???

2

Patron saints of sanctimonious pricks

5d

Another one of those classic [person] is totally a nice, sweet, kind person!

Comments: are they though?

Update: they’re actually insane!

wallstreetbetsdebts

2

5d

I love it when the trash takes itself out!

2

5d

Net th wife started abusing the kids because it's their fault her husband won't let her Mom move in. Yikes this is sad as hell. I hope she gets help and he has the kids 100%. Fuck the MIL

Tiny_Incident_2876

1

5d

Tell your wife to choose who she wants , start separating the bank account, start getting your business together, because your wife will pick her mother, I might be wrong it's best to be prepared

usernotfoundplstry

1

5d

She cares about everything

Except her children and her husband. Not really a caring person if you don’t care about the people who are supposed to be highest on your priority list.

1

5d

updateme

1

5d

Two Yes equals yes. One no equals no. Right up there with "no means no"

1

5d

Sorry you had to even go through this.

1

5d

Ummm. Time to get your kids away permanently from mom.

1

5d

Fuck that evil woman

1

5d

Updateme!