www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/karen-read-murder-trial-hung-jury-mistrial-live-massachusetts/
Karen Read murder trial ends in mistrial with "starkly divided" hung jury
i live in the area and have multiple 2-3 degree removed connections to this case. it’s all people around here can talk about, it’s crazy.
the reason this is getting so much attention is BECAUSE none of it makes sense. nothing that the cops/party goers are claiming seems to fit, but the alternative is that there is an elaborate, boarder line conspiratorial cover up happening that everyone from the local police to the staties to the AG are involved in.
at the end of the day, the only thing that seems to be clear about this case is that, regardless of how this event actually went down, the investigation was (intentionally or unintentionally) fucked six ways to sunday. a lot of people who have been following since the beginning view this as a clear case of extreme corruption on the part of the MA justice system.
As someone who just found out about this case 10 minutes ago… if she hit him with her car, wouldn’t there be damage to the car?
you would think, wouldn’t you?
the story is her car had a busted light (which i believe is confirmed and the extent of any damage), but conveniently no footage from security cameras or traffic lights could be recovered for that night on the route she would’ve taken home. so it can’t be proven when the light broke or what caused it and it can’t even be confirmed it was broken on the night in question.
additionally, if you see pictures of the driveway it actually somehow makes things less believable. she would’ve been doing a three point turn at a minimum and with the snow banks on either side of the driveway i’m not convinced she could’ve even gotten the car moving fast enough in the space she had to hit him, cause the damage that was found on his body, and not notice it happened.
There is video evidence of her tapping a parked car on her way out of her garage when she left to go find him that morning and traffic light footage of her taillight cracked but intact. There was zero tail light plastic found with the body or collected that day. But multiple pieces were found a few days later, after KR’s car had already been in police custody for a day or so.
Hey. I don’t mean to hijack this, but you seem knowledgeable. Do you have a video about this case you recommend?
Not OP but 13th juror podcast has an amazing series on the case.
Here is a video of a lawyer going over the surveillance camera footage from when the car is collected on a tow truck:
https://youtu.be/vhL42jFFUfE?t=11
Note the suspiciously intact tail light.
Later on in the video he shows what the light looks like when entered into evidence:
https://youtu.be/vhL42jFFUfE?t=190
And remember Canton PD kept ""finding"" bits of the tail light at the scene and entering it into evidence DAYS after that first video was shot
Also their footage was backwards in some areas 🙃🙃🙃
The sally port video was backwards... but the timestamp was forward.
And this was never called out on direct and had to wait till cross examination.
The video's timestamp however was not reversed!
And it took them a significant amount of time to "find" that footage.
I have absolutely no idea how the jury was hung, not a clue.
I personally know people that believe that the tax payer pays good money for police training and therefore police would not arrest an innocent person. There’re probably some people with this mindset on this jury.
The dog had something to do with it no? Those marks he had were definitely from an animal and they just so happened to get rid of a 7 year old old dog soon after.
the dog/dog bites are important because they effectively prove the prosecution’s story false. the persecution claims john never made it inside the house. they say he got out of the car and karen hit him as she was backing out of the driveway so he never made it to the party. the fact he had bites from the dog prove he did make it into the house, at which point karen would’ve already left.
the fact the dog has mysteriously disappeared under the guise of being rehomed so quickly after this all happened and after being the family pet for years just adds to the immense shadiness of it all.
they say he got out of the car and karen hit him as she was backing out of the driveway so he never made it to the party.
No the police theory of the case is she deliberately drove (whilst drunk) in reverse at 24mph, clipped his arm (only his arm), launched him 30 ft onto the lawn, then drove away.
No I'm not making that up. That is literally the commonwealth's theory of the case.
right but that’s still in line with what i said in my other comment. they’re claiming she hit him as she left, and if she had he never would have made it into the house that night. him having dog bites proves he did make it into the house where the dog was which disproves their version of events
That's the fun thing. Even if you completely grant them their theory of the case it STILL does not line up with the evidence.
You can't crack your head open like that landing on dirt/grass/snow.
You can't drive in reverse at 24MPH when drunk and maintain enough control of the vehicle to hit someone.
You can't send someone flying through the air by hitting their arm alone. (the shoulder is a ball joint)
And non of the evidence of the body backs their claim as to what happened AT ALL. The dog bites are the kicker. Sure the SUV grew fangs latched onto his arm and flung him (with no tears to the shoulder) 30 ft onto grass, the hardest grass in the world that managed to crack his skull. (The SUV also kept itself blood free whilst doing so)
Did the defense conduct any tests or simulations to show those things aren’t possible?
I'm not a scientist, but the physics don't sound right there.
The trooper paul (commonwealth accident reconstructionist) cross examination is brutal.
https://youtu.be/CCuqTZwegeg?t=374
Starts at 6m14 seconds the longer you watch the worst it gets.
Good god that guy is actually paid to reconstruct accidents? He sounds like he didn’t even take a high school level physics class.
The investigators also allegedly swabbed to test for canine saliva, but only found pig DNA...except, instead of directly swabbing the skin or wounds, they swabbed a section of the deceased's shirt that had been cut off and taken for evidence. The samples were stored in maybe in a non-secure way? I forget. There was also something about evidence being held in red party cups in a paper bag, not standard at all.
There was actually a ...very...small amount of damage. However video evidence showed her slightly bumping something with her car that could easily have caused that damage.
The cops killed this dude. They were all partying, drunk, late at night, things got out of hand. I think it was accidental. They had a fist fight, the fight turned bad, he hit his head and died. so instead of taking responsibility they framed an outsider.
Also the investigation was an absolute shit show. INCREDIBLE degrees of incompetence. So much so that they really should have been charged themselves with neglect of duty.
I am 100% convinced Read is totally innocent. Also, acording to the cops own testimoney, they spent all fucking day and all fucking night getting hammered and driving drunk all around town. Seriously. This is what they cops themselves admitted to. fucking insane.
Also convenient that they ripped out the concrete in their basement and replaced the doors in their home and sold their jeep AND rehomed the dog.
AND got new phones too!
Just so conveniently the day before they were to be taken as evidence. Just throwing the old phones in the trash, because that’s what people do with old phones, right?
What do you think the “dog bites” are? Puppo got excited during the fight and joined in?
The victim was a stranger to the dog, meanwhile the other drunk cops were all famiiliar with the dog. So when the fight ensued, the dog jumped in to defend the people he knew and bit the victim.
Yes, the dog was a failed police dog, so she still had police training to bite on the arm, plus german shepherds are protective dogs and their owner was in a physical altercation so she joined in.
He had already attacked two dogs before and bit a woman trying to get her off. Now the dog has been sent to Vermont 🤔
Ooooof. Was just curious if there was any other theories on those marks. I’m totally in the camp of at a minimum complete incompetence, but likely coverup
You'd think. The only damage to her car was a broken tail light, and it's not clear when her tail light was broken (one cop testified that when he saw it it was "cracked" not completely shattered, and all videos that would have shown the state of her tail light BEFORE John died went "missing" while in police custody). That said, the tail light damage STILL isn't consistent with a pedestrian strike. The defense had independent FBI hired witnesses (w/ PHDs in engineering) testify that the damage to Karen's car was inconsistent with her hitting John on his arm or head (the only places he was injured). The FBI hired witnesses also testified that the damage to John was inconsistent with being struck with a car. The prosecution put up a police officer who testified that John was struck on his arm by Karen's car, the tail light shattered on his arm (giving him linear lacerations), he spun counter-clockwise and was projected 30 feet in the air, and he landed on the yard. The FBI hired experts said this was not possible (John would need to have been hit at his center of mass to have been projected that far, not on his arm) and inconsistent with his observed injuries (he would have AT LEAST had bruises on his arm... he had none). Also, the prosecution's "expert" did not understand high school physics — for example, he thought momentum and speed were the same thing.
not to mention if you see pics of the driveway from around the time it happened it just…doesn’t seem possible for her to have been reversing far enough or fast enough in the space available to her for her to have hit him hard enough for anything to have come of it. she would’ve had maybe a couple feet worth of space to maneuver in with the snow banks that were there that night.
Definitely. Not to mention she'd been drinking and it was snowing really hard. I doubt she would've been able to pull off a maneuver like that (but even if she somehow had...there would've been some blood on her car, more damage to her car, more damage to John etc. etc.) And it's also odd that if she HAD hit him, no one managed to hear anything? See anything? It was 12:30AM and a party was going on. Multiple people were looking outside (like Jen McCabe...who happened to look away at JUST the right moment to miss Karen hitting John, and somehow also managed to avoid noticing a large body in the front yard). Multiple people left the party...no one saw a body. A plow truck driver drove by the house multiple times that night with high beam lights and didn't see a body/blood...It's ridiculous how many things make ZERO sense in this case.
There's also footage of her backing up and bumping into another vehicle's wheel well (the footage the judge took home to review) on the side of her vehicle that the broken tail light was on. It's almost like hitting the wheel well of another car with your tail light might break it or something.
Apparently the only damage to the vehicle was a broken tail light after she supposedly reversed into him going like 24mph on a snowy road and apparently sending his body flying 30ft
boarder line conspiratorial cover up happening that everyone from the local police to the staties to the AG are involved in.
It wouldn't have required that many people. If Trooper Proctor and his supervisor were covering up, they'd be able to plant all the evidence that would be difficult to explain away if Karen was innocent.
For those who don't know, Trooper Proctor was the lead investigator who "jokingly": texted his buddies that he was searching Karen's phone for nude photos of her before he had approval from a judge to search the phone. Proctor's supervisor was in that group text, and didn't reprimand him for this. In that same group text, he was asked if the home owner would catch grief for a dead body being found on their front lawn, and he replied with "Nope" followed by "The home owner is a Boston cop too."
From the video clips I’ve seen of some of the cross examinations, the cops look like they screwed up every step of the way. You can’t convict someone after such an unprofessional investigation.
the investigation was (intentionally or unintentionally) fucked six ways to sunday.
So just regular cop stuff then?
100%!
i think the reason this is so jarring for people in this area is because it happened in a very wealthy, well to do town so there’s an element of “that could never happen here!” going on, and to have that mindset and then watch this case absolutely blow it up is shaking people. (particularly older people who view police as mostly a force for good and police corruption as an unfortunate but infrequent occurrence)
Middle America Now it's a tragedy. Now it's so sad to see An upper class city having this happen
All of the investigative screwups remind me of a capital murder case my ex was on the jury for. Given the case, you'd think that one of the first things they'd do was fingerprint the weapon to see who it pinted to. Nope, the Philadelphia Police Department never bothered to fingerprint the gun! head explodes
i can’t speak to that case obviously, but for this one all the mistakes just seem to point to cops protecting their own. the party was hosted by a fellow cop who john supposedly had beef with, and the rumor is it was that cops son who actually fought with john.
screwed up investigations are shitty in the best cases, but in a case like this with other cops as potential suspects they really really make the whole thing seem shady as fuck.
It’s also active fuckery. I can believe some dipstick, or just someone having a really terrible day, could forget to fingerprint a piece of evidence and when they remember hope no one notices or doesn’t realize it’s their fault. Actively “finding” pieces of tail light that video evidence shows shouldn’t be there, putting forward theories unsupported by evidence. All of these are things you have to decide to do, rather than just be incompetent.
Conspiracy isn't so hard to believe these days. Every week there's news stories of extortion, corruption, sexual assault, abuse, cover ups. My impression is the whole system is pretty damn rotten.
I personally served as a juror on a case where it was obvious to everyone drugs were planted based on the cop covering up the body cam for like 5 seconds just as he "found" the drugs, in an otherwise uninterrupted 50 minute video. What's crazy is the girl (African American, of course) called the police because she lost control of her car during a snow storm and hit a guardrail. No others involved. Instead of just taking her info and making sure she's ok, they started interrogating her and made her take off her hoodie and shirt right there in the blizzard. Searched her car, found nothing. Then he went back to the squad car for 20 minutes and had a conversation where the audio was too muffled to understand. Then returned to her car and immediately found a tiny bit of pot too small to even hit, just as the camera went dark.
This bullshit is why YOU DONT CALL THE COPS!
it's seriously a crapshoot whether they'll actually did their job, or just make up bullshit to get themselves another arrest
The scary thing is that at least 1 juror absolutely believes (or is willing to play along) that the prosecution proved her guilt in court.
It gets even worse
I can't even figure out the details of the death from this.
So... She took him to a party and dropped him off and this is presumably when she hit him with her car and he died. And no one noticed he was dead until morning? Did they establish the cause of death to be blunt force trauma or exposure? When did this hit and run take place? Shouldn't there be damage to the defendants car that makes this a slam dunk? What's this about him dying at the party and the people at the party covering it up?
This case reads as so damn weird and I can't tell if the details are vague because the information hasn't been released or because the prosecution doesn't know the answers either in which case why is anyone being charged?
One of the medical experts during the trial even testified the wounds were consistent with bite and claw marks of animal.
What the fuck?
yea, and the family whos house it occurred at, 'rehomed' their German Shepard the next day.
One of the women also googled how long to die in cold or some shit at like 2:30 am
Likely put that dog down though.
Yeah, I mean if you rehome a dog that could potentially exonerate you in a murder investigation I’m pretty sure the new family wouldn’t mind bringing him by.
Wait till you hear what the local cops used as evidence containers.
And how long it took them to hand it over for analysis!
And how they flipped a video and added a fake timestamp to hide the dodgy treatment of evidence
And the MULTIPLE videos that had "missing" minutes of key footage that could have exonerated Karen. A cop watched one of the videos (a ring cam) and wrote on a post-it that he saw Karen pull in to John's house at 12:41AM. The video was in police custody at the time. The police give the defense the video, but it's missing footage at 12:41AM. The lead investigator claims he has no idea what happened to the footage from 12:41AM. And this footage is crucial, because if it showed that Karen's tail light was intact at 12:41AM, the prosecution's case would be over.
Where can I go to learn more about this
So he might have been mauled by a dog?
How the fuck does anyone bungle an investigation so bad that the presence or lack there of of dog bites is ambiguous?
Yeah, when the initial report by the original medical examiner (who was working for the cops) said blunt force trauma, but a secondary professional testifies saying wounds caused by an animal... which would be ripping and tearing wounds.
Also when you look further into cases like the one from LA a few years ago where a bunch of cops beat another cop to death during "riot training". Turned out the cop that was beaten to death had been investigating several of the other cops that were involved in the training for sexual assault.
Do you have a link or name handy?
This is for the LA cop. Houston Tipping was his name. https://www.npr.org/2022/10/08/1127580159/houston-tipping-lapd-death-lawsuit
It wasn't bungled. He was at a party with other cops. Then he turned up dead.
There was relationship drama and bad blood between the deceased and one of the cops at the party too. The running theory is they got in a fight, he fell and hit his head, and at some point while that was going on the dog got amped up and bit him. They then threw him outside in the snow and pointed fingers at Karen as the scapegoat.
and rehomed the dog
And sold the house
And apparently googled "how long does it take to die in the cold", and making calls to 911 but quickly hanging up. Seems like the defendant is definitely being framed.
He was found dead while hanging out with other cops. They obviously weren’t trying to figure it out just trying to bail out the other cops involved
wait until you find out they re homed the dog...
Yeah wait what is with that? I know she said she moved it to Vermont but is there more?
The dog almost certainly bit the guy who ultimately died, they removed the dog to prevent it from being investigated further
Wait until you find out about the lead investigator** searching the defendants phone for nudes, calling her a cunt and laughing about her medical conditions... or the cop who just happened to get rid of his phone the day before they asked him for it, or his cop friend who cut his sim card in half and threw it out on a military base. The dog that got re homed and the fact that John had animal bits/scratches on his arm. Then you have the inverted videos that have the right time stamp to hide whats going on. The judge who got one of the witnesses brothers off on a murder before. the fact that they replaced the basement floors and sold the house under market value.
The actual evidence collection and crime scene shenanigans were good too. Then deleted searches, texts, calls and then the highest amount of "butt dials" without voicemails being left of all time. At one point 2 witnesses claimed they were butt dialing each other over and over, totally not calling each other and discussing the conspiracy.
I could go on...
My favorite is using red solo cups placed in used grocery bags to collect blood evidence, the day after…
Yep, truly the worst police department in the country. Conspiracy or not, these are the dumbest fucking people I've ever seen.
I don’t think they’re dumb. I think they knew some evidence might point at the house where he was killed so they fucked it up intentionally.
Oh weird, dog hair somehow got in the sample of the victims wounds?
Must have been from the dirty Walmart bag they put it in the next day.
This is why I don't party with cops ✌️
then the highest amount of "butt dials" without voicemails being left of all time.
There must be something in the water there, everyone has a prehensile gluteus. Should form a circus troupe.
The short version is that it's almost certain that the homeowner's dog bit the guy who died, and for whatever reason things escalated into a fight and he was killed by that homeowner. They dumped his body outside and framed the murder on his wife. The homeowner is a cop, and all of the evidence that would indicate it was the man's wife who hit him is essentially falsified, with much of the framing being caught on video and nothing matching up to the police testimony. Corrupt cops in action.
The article I read said the ATF officer had beef with the bf/cop/victim and had claimed Read flirted with him, then ‘ghosted him’. There were phone calls exchanged with the victim at 2:20am, and that’s the guy who destroyed him SIM card on an army base.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/karen-read-trial-john-okeefe-murder-investigation-rcna159517
in which case why is anyone being charged?
If she isn't responsible for his death, it kind of automatically means a bunch of cops did it.
I can see why the coverup narrative is so powerful.
Either these guys absolutely bungled every aspect of the case (in which case you lose because fuck you for not doing your job right), weren't really trying, or they did cover it up. Most cases at least have a clear timeline and geography of a crime. What happened and where.
That seems completely absent from this case, which is a huge 'what the fuck how does that happen?'
That's why the FBI is investigating the investigation, because it was suspiciously that bad. However, the FBI was forbidden to be mentioned during trial, they were referred to as "the agency" when needed.
If I were a juror and cryptic references to “the agency” were being made during the trial, I’d be extremely confused and want an explanation
I think part of the reason the cover-up is seen as highly plausible is that statistically speaking, the chances of so many investigators screwing up so many parts of the investigation is really, really, small. That said, I've always been a firm believer of never attributing to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity, so you never know...
I completely agree with your malice/stupidity rule, but the calculus shifts just a bit when cops are involved. Every news story and every personal experience tells me that they are far more likely than most to commit assault and to think they can get away with stuff.
The states argument is that she dropped him off at the party and backed up 24 feet while drunk in a snowstorm, hit only his arm, broke only her tail light, and launched him 30 feet onto the grass on the front yard from only hitting his arm.
Never mind the woman inside the house Google searching how long it takes someone to die of hypothermia multiple times starting at 2:30 in the morning.
Never mind the family ripping up the concrete in their basement, pouring new concrete, ripping out their old doors and replacing the doors that were also in the basement. And then sold the house.
Never mind the police sallyport footage being reversed to look like her broken tail light was the one that they alleged broke when she hit him (but somehow the timestamps weren't reversed?)
Never mind all of the surrounding neighbor Ring camera footage from that night went "missing," people leaving the party and not seeing a body on the lawn, and a plow driver driving by multiple times and not seeing a body on the lawn.
Never mind the dog bites on his arm and the family mysteriously "rehoming" the dog.
Never mind that the lead investigator Trooper Proctor (who by the way is a complete piece of shit) texted his sister all this delightful shit about Karen Read including that he hasn't found any nudes of her on her phone that he confiscated, she's a cvnt, and they hope she kills herself.
It's also worth noting that Trooper Proctor testified that there was no reason to investigate inside of the house despite the fact that John was outside in just a tee shirt in a blizzard in Massachusetts in February and he had no reason to believe that, idk, John's jacket might be inside the house???
It's ALSO worth noting that Trooper Proctor called the medical examiner a whack job/piece of work because she wouldn't submit to him and other colleagues intimidating and pressuring her to rule his death a vehicle strike.
The entire case was an absolute shitshow and I personally don't see how anyone could find Karen Read anything but not guilty.
There is way more than I listed above, but if you'd like to learn more I suggest Emily D Baker and Runkle Of the Bailey on YouTube. They both extensively covered this case every day.
Edit: for clarity
The prosecution never had physical evidence or enough for the case. The house the party was at, was another police couple. Not even 4 months after the death of Read's SO, they got rid of their dog. Within 7 months, the scene of the crime, the house was sold. The entire cement basement was removed. It was a total shit show from the beginning. Read was framed to cover up cops dogs killing Read's SO. The rabbit hole goes deeper.
The FBI got involved because the case and evidence were so disgustingly handled. FBI forensics reported cause of death was not related to a car. The guy's face was barely recognizable and his arms and torso were covered in scrathes and bite marks. All damage to victim's body was above the waste.
In addition, the victim's family has long ties to Police and Boston. The brother of the deceased had Read's car towed and impounded. That's a no-no. He wasn't supposed to be anywhere near this case because of conflict of interest. He then damaged car and said Read did it. However, 2 neighbors and their ring cameras clearly showed there was no damage to the car. This was a complete frame job. Poor Read was framed for her significant other's death and SO was killed by fellow brothers in blue. Either an illegal dog fighting ring was happening in the basement of fellow cops' house or their dog mutilated him or he knew something detrimental to a case and he was offed. Read should have never been brought up on charges. Hopefully, the rest of the FBI files will be unsealed and I hope Read sues the pants off the police department.
Just an fyi- John’s brother isn’t a cop and wasn’t who had her car towed. It was the lead investigator named Proctor
Correct. Proctor was friends with retired police Albert's brother , the house where the murder occurred. Proctor had no warrant to tow the car, but did the bidding of the Alberts to start covering up their crime. The Alberts are the ones who had no business dictating what to do. The murder occurred at their house. Fingers crossed, Proctor faces prosecution from the FBI probe for lying , planting evidence and withholding evidence. The story is a modern day "Bambi" Bembenek scenario. So many involved.
John had reported drug activity in his neighborhood that potentially involved a relative of the homeowner whose yard he was found in. The homeowners brother was investigating those reports of drug activity. It is surmised that John reporting the drug activity is one of the reasons for his death. Other than the dog bites on the arm, his head injuries are consistent with a fist fight. He also has defense injuries on the dorsal aspect of both hands that appeared consistent with knuckles. The 17 yr old who may have been incriminated in the drug activity was photographed relatively soon after John's death with scrapes on his knuckles consistent with having been in a fight.
There's 2 sides first the prosecutor side and keep.in mind they are all cops and there was something going on between the locals and the staties. They say she hit him he landed in the snow koed and nobody saw him until the morning. The other side is he went to the party there was a fight in the basement he had marks on his arm that looked like they were from a dog, one of the people who was "there" never got interviewed or snuck home and was scene with bruised knuckles in a picture 2 weeks later. Also the lady who heard her say I hit him was the sister of the homeowner cop, they found the piece of the light way after the initial investigation so it's rumored they broke it and were planting evidence. Then rumors I haven't substantiated is that they house filled in the pool and sold the house so take that with a grain of salt. The FBI have also looked into piece of this case. Regardless of what happened there's definitely more than just the hit happening here
I mean maybe she hit him, but I sure as hell can't tell and the sheer lack of any ducks in a row all around makes an acquittal seem more likely than a hung jury.
The witness testimony against the defendant must be compelling because all the physical aspects of the case are confusing as hell. And if the prosecutor has to brandy about 2 different versions of what happens that sounds like the witnesses, however compelling, are far from on the same page.
What a mess of an investigation. I don't see how a retrial would possibly alter the outcome either so whoever is responsible for this man's death is probably walking away from it and will get a book deal or something.
They even brought doctored footage in the car in storage into the trail it's completely messed up. My guess is there was a few hold outs that she was guilty and were unwilling to move. The general consensus around here I love near it is that she didn't do it and they are trying to bury it. That is even from some local cops a town over.
But why are there holdouts? I can't imagine seeing this evidence and not finding reasonable doubt.
Karen saying “I hit him” could easily be the whole My Cousin Vinny scenario.
Someone: Karen! you hit John!
Karen: I hit him?
Someone: guys she confessed. Lock her up.
That and the only person that heard her say it was the other cops sister
Who was also the one who made the 2:37 am google search "Hos long to die in the cold."
Not suspicious at all
Or she thought she hit him because the body was in a location that made it plausible. Or she said, "Did I hit him?"
Or the witness is lying.
Regardless the prosecution's case isn't plausible.
Or the witness is lying.
- Witness is apparently the sister of the retired cop homeowner, the guy who hosted the party, and whose home the victim supposedly never entered.
- The home that had its entire concrete basement replaced, before sold under market value.
- Who spends (substantial amount of...) money to remodel that aspect of a home before selling it?
- But if you are worried about blood & skin cell DNA evidence surviving on concrete surfaces for years ...
The cops killed him and framed her
Me neither. I just happen to see a news show discussing it 2 weeks or so ago. Then I started reading up on it. Very fishy case. But at the end of the day, there were too many weird (and possibly nefarious) things like searching how long body can be outside in cold before person dies, the way evidence was collected, the investigator was friends with someone who accused Karen. I didn't think it would be a guilty or not guilty verdict, but I definitely don't think she was going to get a guilty verdict with all the questionable things that happened. Now the question is does the state try her again? I'm guessing no.
Plus the jury wasn’t allowed to know the FBI paid for two highly qualified experts! Prosecution didn’t even bother to read through their findings. Their two testimonies on the stand were enough for reasonable doubt and that doesn’t even begin to go into the absolute absurdity of the cops investigation and the people in that house the night he died. All their butt dials, destroying phones on a military base, blatant perjury.
Don’t forget the “hos long to die in the cold” search. Absolutely insane this is a hung jury. Even if you think she did it, there’s no proof! All the experts said he couldn’t have been hit by a car!
crazy they (the cops) didn't bother to go to house during this whole scene while his body was laying there ( how did they not think to check if more people could have been dead inside) and that the family didn't even come outside!! They tried to discredit that search by saying it was an open tab but then the defense used an expert that experimented using her exact same phone with same operating system and was basically like uhhh no she searched how long to die at 2:27 (while the other two guys were accidentally butt dialing each other!). The amount of butt dials in this case is crazy!
As her lawyer said in his closing: butt dials GALORE!
One cop entered the house, Michael Lank. Coincidently the same cop was the first officer on scene in another case that was ruled a suicide for a young pregnant woman that was sexually groomed by a married cop. The detective in that case was also the brother of the cop that owned the house where John O'Keefe died, Kevin Albert. Kevin Albert at one point got so drunk with Trooper Proctor in his state police car that he lost his badge and gun. Trooper Proctor was the lead investigator against Karen Read and has been relieved of duty as of today after the mistrial.
I’ve been following this trial since day 1 and I am just now learning that Kevin Albert was the detective in the Sandra Birchmore case.
Just today!??? That’s gonna be a great fact to bring up in the retrial after he has to read all those texts again lol
There’s no way the jurors aren’t being paid off or threatened. How can you not look at this case and have a teeny bit of reasonable doubt
Some people just support "authority".
Yeah they're either buddies with the Alberts/McCabe's or the jury intimidation is real
If the rumors that the FBI are about to charge some of the officers involved are true, then a hung jury is pretty good. If charges drop before or during the new trial the prosecution’s case collapses
Yeah and the prosecution called the medical examiner who provided the report and refused to label the death as a homicide nor confirm it was more likely he was hit by the car than not. That's just the straight forward stuff. Almost every piece of evidence has salacious drama and doubts attached to it.
the common wealth's accident re-constructionist had to be the worst, idk maybe not worse than the lead investigator. But to say she backed into him at 24 mph and it shattering the tail light leaving those marks but some how not breaking or even fracturing his arm is other worldly. And then to also have no blood or skin found on the tail light, bleghhh
The commonwealth did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any of the following happened:
John O’Keefe died as a result of being hit by a car.
John O’Keefe was hit by a car at all.
If John had been hit by a car, Karen Read was driving it.
If Karen Read was driving it, she intended to hit him.
That’s BEFORE you even get into the messed up investigation, witnesses so shady they all hired lawyers, in fact,
ONE OF THE WITNESSES FUCKED UP SO BAD, HIS LAWYER HAD TO STAND NEXT TO HIM DURING HIS TESTIMONY!!!
Why the prosecution even brought this case is beyond me. All it has done is brought them under scrutiny by the FBI for being so shady. Like I would have dropped it after they got involved for sure. & they charged her with 1st degree murder. Like are you kidding me?
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/karen-read-murder-trial-live-stream-michael-proctor/
Thr LEAD investigator literally texted "I hope she kills herself" and had to read out his texts in court. Like wtf. The article OP posted is ridiculously ambiguous about anything but the seemingly damning "I hit him." Smear job. -1312-
Also this is horrifying:
When Proctor (lead investigator) was searching Read’s phone as part of the investigation, he texted his superiors “No nudes yet.”
Fucking sicko
He made a lot worse texts than that. And he also was talking to his sister about it the whole time. He's a disgusting piece of shit.
It got worse. Watch the video of him reading them out loud
is that on youtube?
I was investigated and my phone searched at one point. In the report the cop went into detailed descriptions of the nudes of my girlfriend they found even though it had nothing to do with the investigation. Cops are sleazy perverts.
And Proctor has been relieved of duty as of today.
This case is the literal, canonical definition of ‘reasonable doubt’. Whether she did it or not, she’s presumed innocent. Thems the rules.
"Deeply held beliefs" causing the split of the jurors.
What deeply held beliefs are those? That all cops are good cops? I can't see how anyone could even slightly think to themselves that there's not reasonable doubt in this case. No other outcome should have been possible based on the evidence given.
Yeah it seems like the evidence collected in solo cups should have been completely thrown out
What deeply held beliefs are those?
That if you do a corrupt cop a favor it will pay off for you, literally or figuratively or both.
Yeah, and it’s not even like the Supreme Court just said that it’s totally cool to take a bribe as long as you pay it after the fact.
Or that Karen Read being innocent means dirty cops did it. Now you've got murderous dirty cops after you.
I'm curious too. There's enough reasonable doubt to backfill the Grand Canyon. What truly scares me are these people with deeply held beliefs that contradict reason also vote.
It's pretty tough to get on a jury if you don't worship cops, especially in a case involving this many cops.
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5d
Wait is this true?
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They never proved that, it was just implied based on the timing. Especially since two of them both took steps to get rid of their phones the day before they got orders to preserve them.
Why at a military base?
harder to get warrants would be my guess
Duh, only someone to hide would keep it in a random drawer for years.
Brian Higgins and Brian Albert both conveniently upgraded their phones before hand. I can't recall the others off the top of my head but Higgins was a key witness.
Edit: more detail: Brian Higgins got a new phone a day before he got a court order to preserve the phone. He threw it and presumably the sim card away in an on base dumpster. Brian Albert testified on the stand that he too had gotten rid of his phone before receiving the court order.
Brian Higgins got a new phone a day before he got a court order to preserve the phone. He threw it and presumably the sim card away in an on base dumpster.
he drove to a military base to dispose of his phone. I mean isn't that what everyone does when they get a new phone. Nothing suspect here.
Totally normal when you've got a ghost in your phone that keeps calling people!
I love giving one of the sketchiest most powerful branches of the government access to all my personal information. Also, bases love when you go there and drop off random electricians, it doesn't get you profiled as a terrorist at all.
Brian Higgins is an ATF agent he knew what he was doing.
Yes. The day before the subpoenas came out, the key officer being investigated got new phone and destroyed his old phones/SIM card.
Officer, not officers.
Yes and no?
So the other major potential suspect (the cop that owned the house) wasn't investigated as a suspect at all for a very long time. Pretty much the duration of the investigation until the very end. I believe the story is that, over a year after the incident, the cop went to replace his cellphone and got a new one. He didn't destroy it, it was the sort of thing where he traded it in at the store and got a brand new phone just like you normally do.
However, and this is where it gets sus, almost immediately after he did this he received the court order to preserve evidence which included the request that he turn over his phone to the authorities. But he couldn't comply as he has records of trading in said cellphone BEFORE getting the order and by the time he got the order the cell phone had already been sent on by the store to be recycled and couldn't be recovered.
So it's not like he did the phone trade in the day after the accident or anything, but the fact that the trade in happened right before the request was set is kind of suspicious if you think he got a heads up so quickly traded in the phone before he got said request. The counter argument being it was just bad timing or the investigators hearing that he traded in his phone and panic asking him to preserve it in hopes the store could get it back with a court order.
There's just a lot of really weird and potentially suspicious things like this in this case. Lots of things that could have reasonable explanations but could also be signs of a conspiracy coverup.
EDIT: I should also mention that the reason why the cop who owned the house wasn't initially investigated as a suspect is because Karen Read was arrested almost immediately. Mostly because when the paramedics were called Read was rushing around saying "I hit him, I hit him, oh my god, I hit him." Which she has since recanted saying that she 'thought' she had to have hit him because of where he was found and that someone else actually did it to frame her. Pieces of her broken tail light was found at the scene (though not initially, the explanation being that it was a blizzard so the taillight pieces were found as the snow melted) and a hair from the victim was found on the bumper of her car. The defense claiming that both the taillight pieces and the hair were planted as the crime scene was initially left unsecured.
Long story short? CASE IS A MESS.
Only 1 cop allegedly witnessed Karen Read saying "I hit him," and it didn't show up in any of his reports until long into the investigation.
The first time the "I hit him I hit him" quote started to appear was in the second grand jury hearing where jenn mccabe testified to it. Which was conveniently riiiiiight after her "hos long to die in cold" google search hit the media. The other witness who testified to hearing karen say it was an EMT who turned out to be a long time friend of the albert's daughter lol
The ATF agent who destroyed his sim also had calls between him and the victim at like 2:30 am, and supposedly they had beef because the ATF guy was saying Read flirted with him, then ‘ghosted’ him. Soooo, if someone beat him to death like alleged, he’d be suspect #1.
According to two of the paramedics she did not say she hit him, she was questioning "did I hit him? Could I have hit him?" and was screaming and panicking. Rightfully so her boyfriend was left for dead in the cold and she didn't know what happened and thought it might be her fault. That's not an admission.
Partially. The only fact check is the one that dumped his phone on the Army base is an ATF agent.
The State’s witnesses don’t seem to have done a very good job and now they are stuck with that testimony. I would hope the defense would seek pre-trial rulings to allow more actual expert testimony. Perhaps look for grounds to recuse the judge.
Retrial is always difficult for the State.
From what I am skimming from the headlines & comments over here, Retrial is more likely to end with charges against State’s witnesses.
It’s better they bury this than seek retrial.
I think the reasoning us if they get a conviction it makes charging them for the conspiracy super awkward and gives them leverage. If they drop the charges all they have is a dog bitten corpse which looks really bad.
They've already said they will be moving forward with a retrial
And Auntie Bev will continue to reign as judge, despite the fact that she should have rotated off this case 6 months ago. Well before this made it to trial
The fact that anyone could have sat through that shit show of a trial and thought: "damn, the state really made a compelling case" is just batshit insane to me. I know no one here who thinks that there isn't reasonable doubt, no matter where they personally fall on the guilty/not-guilty spectrum. Reasonable doubt is grounds for acquittal. Your "deeply held personal beliefs" don't matter.
Your "deeply held personal beliefs" don't matter.
Tiktok rumour mill says that one juror is an ex-cop and another a full-on blue lives matter nut job.
The "deeply held belief" is probably that police are infallible.
That’s the only thing that really makes sense. Because the alternative is that they were paid off or coerced. There is zero chance someone hear all the testimony and could say with 100% certainty that Read killed this guy.
This is my town and I’m glad it’s getting more press. Canton cops have been known to be incredibly townie/corrupt. They also known for being bad at being corrupt. The town is just small enough that no one is able to question it
How long until it’s on Hulu?
There were actually Netflix cameras at the trial, so only time will tellp
I bet the cops already wrote the script before the events
Anytime a group of people suddenly decide to all get new phones at the same time something is up
Absolutely nuts. The expert witnesses made it clear John wasn’t murdered by a vehicle.
I’m actually surprised tbh, the prosecution seemed to do any awful job and left tons of reasonable doubt in it.
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The DA already said they will be trying her again
Which is interesting, they can’t change any of the testimony they presented, which was all INSANE.
Well that's a waste of my tax money
That's the point though. They don't care about the outcome, the process is the punishment. The DA's office is trying to bleed her dry so she can't afford her lawyers and experts anymore. Money is no object when you're using other people's money to pay for your shenanigans.
And if that's true, based on the wording of the note it would seem to me that the foreman was either writing to be very politic or was one of the guilty votes.
The online search of How Long TO DIE FROM COLD by a woman in the house, not the accused was very fishy
So after reading the top post - what a sadly exciting roller coaster, but how has the FBI not got involved at this point? There seems to be so much evidence of a police coverup that this shouldn't be ignored.
They are. They provided reports that the victim was not hit by a car. Which the commonwealth ignored but the defense used. These experts testified. The jury wasn't allowed to know those witnesses were provided by the FBI. So, there is a FBI investigation, but we don't know much about it right now.
I would be so annoyed if I were on trial for a murder I didn’t do and people were like “okay but who did it then?” Bitch that’s not my lawyers job! They just need me to be not guilty, not do the cops job for them!
You should only need a unanimous verdict for guilty. Not guilty should require a 3/4s majority. If three or fewer jurors are holding out for guilty, there's enough reasonable doubt in that room to warrant a not guilty verdict.
If that few jurors are holding out for guilty, it might as well be an acquittal because it’s pretty unlikely that they would retry such a case.
Oh this is getting retrialed for sure and it's a total injustice.
waste of fucking time and taxdollars for Massachusetts residents too.
This innocent woman was about to be jailed for murder?
I don't get the "Tuey-Rodriguez instruction" they were given.
"You should consider that it is desirable that the case be decided," the instructions read. "You should consider that you have been selected in the same manner, and from the same source, as any future jury would be. There is no reason to suppose that the case will ever be submitted to 12 persons who are more intelligent, more impartial, or more competent to decide it than you are, or that more or clearer evidence will be produced on one side or the other."
This seems to almost be badgering the jury into rendering a verdict against their better judgement. If a juror has reasonable doubt, then giving these instructions seem only to try to goad them into ignoring their doubt and convicting despite their doubt.
To my knowledge, it's basically the legal equivalent of 'are you really really really sure you're deadlocked?' The system prefers a definitive outcome, and juries are desired who will render guilty or not guilty.
If they can't they can't.
But they do stuff like this as covering the court's bases to be sure that they really are deadlocked.
Been on jury and it’s not easy to get a unanimous decision, especially in a confusing case like this. Our case was actually also previously deadlocked, so idk if maybe it had more sympathetic people on it (drug crime). Out of all the charges (6 or so) more than half stuck but one or two we did agree on not guilty verdict.
I just got off jury duty as a foreperson, and conversely we came to a unanimous decision pretty quickly in a case with attempted murder, kidnapping, and domestic violence charges with only a few small quibbles. We could have probably rendered a verdict day 1 but the judge had a doctor appt and we had to break early.
When I was on the jury for a murder trial last year, we could not come to a decision. We were 9-3 not guilty. We went out and reported that we couldn’t come to a decision and the judge sent us back with instructions to take a second look at the case. I didn’t even know that was a thing.
We spent another 6 hours arguing and debating, listened to phone calls again, and in the end… we were still 9-3, not guilty. We eventually wrote that “we could not come to a decision without compromising our views of justice”. So that he couldn’t force us back a second time. They didn’t want to accept a hung jury, but had to in the end anyway.
Judges don't want juries to be deadlocked just because they're tired of talking about it. It's common for judges to have juries deliberate more before declaring a mistrial.
Or not convicting, that’s the other option. It’s possible some juror is leaning guilty unreasonably and this instruction gets them to make the decision to join the other “not-guilty” jurors. It doesn’t instruct the jury to convict, it instructs the jury not to give up and instead to do the hard work of discussing the evidence and merits to overcome disagreement.
In my experience as a juror, the people who lean guilty unreasonably are unreasonable people who can't be reasoned out of their position with an instruction like this. But reasonable people who have reasonable doubt can more easily feel pressured into thinking that perhaps their doubts are unreasonable.
Yes, it's basically "The court would like you to try one last time and have an open mind about your position. We really like definitive outcomes and would be happy with that". It is somewhat controversial as it's seen as coercive, making the jury feel obligated to break the deadlock to appease the court. Some states do not use it.
To the legal pundits, how does the Fed investigation play into this case being a mistrial? What are the chances the Feds will go public with their findings now? What happens if the Fed case shows the dog really did do it?
Thank you in advance
The cops did it its all so obvious
It is a travesty that this ended in a mistrial and not a not-guilty verdict. It is a travesty that this woman is going to be re-tried in an attempt to frame her in the murder of her partner so as to cover up for a bunch of dirty cops and their dirty relatives.
I don’t trust anything the police say! They’ve shown us time and again they will lie and frame other people based on whatever narrative they are trying to push or dirty cop they want to cover for. Or dirty department. We’ve seen it time and again. And what are the chances she dropped him off at 12:30am, hit him, and NO ONE from this party saw him before she went looking at 6am? 😑
https://www.ctinsider.com/news/article/a-murderous-romance-or-frame-job-things-to-know-19464696.php
The article doesn't have enough information to really glean what someone could be stuck up on.
It sounds like there are people inside the house and party who are trying to avoid providing any evidence the victim was there.
The "I hit him" quote seems quite damning but no evidence her car hit him.
Where were the people inside this whole time? Surely someone had left or had joined the party after okeefe? It's incredibly difficult to get a clear timeline of events.
What a tragic case. This man lost his life, and the circumstances are essentially unknown. It could have been read, maybe she did hit him with her car and got it fixed up. But where's the evidence?
It could have been someone in the party - but how do you keep everyone quiet? Where's the evidence for this?
The expert opinion of death by animal is incredible as well. How can that deduction ignore the initial post mortem detailing blunt force trauma? Animals are not known for their blunt force, not any animal that would scratch/tear at human skin.
I never heard of this case before but skimming through it reads like the perfect storm of wtf.