Holding off on desktop PC purchase on this concern. Is it valid? Microsoft seems to be on the hard push to get CoPilot AI PCs on everyones desk, even making new windows keyboard with a copilot key on it. They want to gain AI client market share before the competitors using the operating system, like they did with Internet Explorer. How soon do you think Microsoft will MANDATE desktops with CPUs with integrated NPUs for Windows? They already are pushing it for laptops.
Does anyone think Microsoft will make desktop CPUs with an integrated NPU mandatory for Windows in the next few years? They seem to be heck bent on pushing their Copilot AI.
Build HelpI agree and exactly why I am hesitant to buy a new PC right now with no desktop CPUs with integrated NPUs... ...but I really need to upgrade now too. So I am in a bind of what to do.
A GPU can do an NPU’s job. It’s just not as power efficient, which is why you see the emphasis on NPU in the laptop/phone space.
Microsoft will never do this. Their entire model is to be on as many PCs as possible.
Don't worry.
And yet windows 11 can only run on relatively modern hardware.
It’s only supported* on relatively modern hardware.
Also my friend said windows randomly decided to force an upgrade to windows 11 on his old laptop despite it previously telling him it was too old for windows 11 lol
How modern? I have windows 11 pro on a mini nuctuk kinda pc
Windows wants a Trusted Platform Module but you can install it without one, it just bitches a lot. The other system specs are pretty basic really.
Apps that require TPM won’t run though.
I doubt they will force Npus on windows 11. Maybe a later windows version.
I could see it for 12 if the really wanted to push it but it would just be like 11 was, its the last win just with a few features they throw in to try and force the new hardware.
I think they will try and force a few features like that are with Win 11 to see how it takes, once they feel like most people will have the hardware then they will push Win 12 that will "require it"
Yea if they would to that probably that way. However they would kill the entire desktop market with dedicated gpus. I guess they would use some minimum requirements for AI computing, either a GPU or apu with fitting specs.
Yeah same as the Win11 stuff...require a spec that they must have so it would be the same thing with limiting only the newer hardware in "working' even though just disabling the requirements would still run the stuff fine. Its not something I would worry about really...it will be a few years at least and there will likely be a work around besides just not upgrading for a few years until they kill support of the older version...normally you will have the specs at some point if you upgrade every few years.
I wouldn't be surprised if it fell on its face well before that also.
Why are you hesitant if the current processors DON'T have the concern you're expressing and future ones will? I'd think you'd be more likely to buy a processor without AI if you don't like AI.
Personally, if Windows adds AI tools that you can't turn off, I'm not using windows, and my non-AI processor will be just fine with another OS.
Mint is nice
What other os is there other than Linux?
TempleOS
Seems like a silly reason to hold off buying.
I think the surface laptops with snapdragon npus are due out pretty soon.
That is absolutely inevitable when most people simply will not even consider a perfectly valid alternative because it would require a bi of setup and learning something new.
Linux doesn't support a lot of games
Hmmmmm.. the latest games, or your fundamental digital privacy. Hmmmmmm...
Gonna have to agree to disagree. I haven't had issues playing anything I play, and generally get better performance as well.
It's less the games that don't work and more the anti cheats. Valve has done incredible things at making gaming better on Linux and it's -almost- there, we just need the gsme makers to get on board and patch their games anti cheats.
Its getting harder and harder to say windows is "better" at this point. Most distros are very causal friendly and most things will run on it since a lot of things are cloud based anyway for productivity and gaming works like 99% of the time as long as it doesn't need anti-cheat.
Sure, and if the person had said that some games they play don't work, that would be a valid point. But what the person said was "linux doesn't support a lot of games" which simply hasn't been true for a while now.
Problem is that, often the games it doesn't support are typically BIG games that affect a large audience. E.g, the fact that Factorio does have linux support does not outweigh the fact it doesn't support Fortnite, with regards to getting people to switch.
I think gaming is the only thing preventing me from switching my personal computer to linux (also, tbf, gaming is what I use my personal computer for 85% of the time)
Which again, while true, was not the argument given at all. The fact of the matter is 95% of the steam library runs with no issue and most other games that don't have aggressive anti cheat can be run with lutris.
If you play games that don't work, yea. Don't switch. But the claim I'm responding to is the claim that most games don't work on linux. And that simply isn't true.
You're right, Linux supports-most- games now, thanks to the Steam Deck. I honestly can't wait for the day I can ditch windows on my main gaming PC.
I'm already there! Though I get there are some reasons others don't, it's been great for me.
LOL.
the government stepped in once before, we can do it again.
anti trust these companies and bring back some level of control.
Right. IE vs Netscape. The Gov acted in a timely manner. And thanks to them Edge/Cortana/Copilot are not embedded in Windows anymore.
they're doing it again... and it will be if we don't act.
it is already almost impossible to get rid of edge and oendrive from win10.
EU might be watching closely as well. "So Windows 12 required NPU and made 3 months old PC obsolete? Huuuuge fine for joo!!"
It could happen 15 years ago. Now I don't think so.
Make your own OS then!
- some Microsoft exec probably
Anyone else read IE as Internet Explorer?
I predict this all turns into clippy on crack.
can’t wait to relive bonzi buddy
Oh god, you just made me relive a berating I received from my dad for downloading Bonzi Buddy on our family PC when I was 8. That thing was cursed spyware.
After he told me not to I downloaded it again LOL
It already is. All these nutters absolutely desperate to call the regurgitation machine intelligent.
I hate hate hate that ppl call LLMs AI....
Like, not even in the same sphere , esp tech reporters should know better!
The vast majority of the public are technically and mathematically illiterate, they truly don't understand a bit, and so when the rich tech bros point and say 'magic box', they all believe them and clap.
But yes, I can't wait for people to stop saying AI when they mean statistical blog post regurgitator.
What we call "AI" right now is more like a fancy search engine than a human brain. It basically just aggregates information and formats it.
A human brain basically just aggregates information and formats it.
You will have an insanely hard time proving that.
I don't need to prove it, so I won't.
You don't, no, just means your claim is baseless.
It's not my claim. It's a response to another claim, that AI differs from a brain n that an AI basically regurgitates information (we actually don't know what's in the latent space of an AI any more than we do the human brain), and that that's not like a brain (because a human brain does more? Some other things?)
That claim carries the burden of proof that the brain has some other magical powers. I don't have to prove that it doesn't.
"While we also don't fully understand how LLMs produce the output that they do, we know they aren't like human brains because they aren't magical like brains are"
"I don't think brains are magical"
"WhErE's Year PrOoF?"
You do if you want anyone to lend it any level of credibility.
That's a thing that a brain does. It does more though as well, provably. So you're wrong and this is a bad argument. False equivelacny.
The more I learn about 'AI l' the more I've been confused as what I truly classify as AI 😅
AI as a term covers many many things far more rudimentary. Even deterministic systems are AI. Machine Learning is a subset of AI, and Deep Learning is a subset of Machine Learning. I'm a programmer who has done a good amount of work with deep learning.
The more specific definition of AI being used currently is probabilistic reasoning without explicit instruction, and that's absolutely what an LLM does.
In my experience, there are just as many technically illiterate people on the anti-ai side as on the pro ai-side. A lot of people that believe that, for example, next-token prediction means that the LLM doesn't plan ahead or maintain a state beyond the next token, which is false. What definition are you using when you say an LLM isn't "AI"? Sentience?
The new AI models are absolutely a fundamental change in computing. As a programmer, there have always been things you couldn't program a computer to do - at least not in a reasonable fashion. That's how captcha works. Until quite recently, captcha was actually really good at ensuring a human was involved because it's easy for a human to solve and nearly impossible to program a computer to solve it deterministically. Deep learning models have smashed open a range of tasks previously inaccessible.
AI was , is and will be (for me at least) the ability to reason and think. I wont call it sentience because thats ill defined even for us. I suppose my view is influenced by sci-fi portayals of what an AI is - like HAL.
The ability to shift through mass amounts of data and probably come to a logical result is nothing but a step towards that goal. A program that just recurgitates info is not making any kind of creative decisions. Just because it can use correct grammar and provide info, a lot of times wrong for that matter, does not make it an AI.
And using your definition, a guessing machine is not intelligence of any kind.
What is "thinking"? In sci-fi when AI is portrayed, there's often a question - in the universe of the AI - as to whether or not it qualifies as sentient or truly "thinking", but they still call it AI. So even in sci-fi, AI is broader than what you're saying (and your general attitude here mirrors the conundrum). One issue is that we do not want to understand thought or sentience. If we understand any process, we'll tend to want to say "but that's not thought, that's not me... I'm magical". In my work with AI, it's not that I've come to think machines are magical, it's that I've come more and more to understand that magic isn't a requirement to explain ourselves. It's not a fun realization to have, but i think it's unavoidable.
Humans can provide wrong info. Neuroscientists will tell you that our understanding of truth is largely developed by the average of our experiences, not unlike an LLM.
A big part of the issue here is an oversimplification of how an LLM works that is often taken to mean something that it doesn't. Usually, it's around "next token prediction" or the fact that an LLM is "only selecting the most likely next word". First, it's not true - they are selecting FROM the most likely next words, but when you think or speak, you are also choosing each word in sequence. That doesn't mean you aren't reasoning. Except you're not ONLY thinking of each word - you have some mental model of what you're trying to say - you know the overall point and where you're going. But - so does an LLM. In deep learning it's called the "latent space" or "latent space vector". As an LLM selects each new token, it's holding a state of generally several gigabytes of dynamic data. We can't fully decipher what's in this latent space the way I can't know what's in your head beyond the words you actually choose, but we know that it explains a lot of behavior.
LLMs for example do really well on many logical tasks without being trained on solutions. People characterize it as just aggregating information, but that's patently false. LLMs can deduce new logical conclusions that they never saw in their training data. A common example that's used a lot is analogies. We use these to test human reasoning as well. "A is to B as C is to D". Even long before LLMs, deep learning and language encoding did really well at this. For example, you could say "Man is to King as woman is to ___" and it would say "Queen" - without ever having been given that example or anything reasonably close to it. We test LLM reasoning and Human Reasoning in the same ways, and LLMs hold up well in many ways. Again - not from memorizing the answers. Without being trained on any visual data, LLMs perform remarkably well on drawing and visual reasoning tasks, meaning they can generalize across domains.
There are still more challenges, of course, and improvements to be made. There are definitely still categories of problems where LLMs are quite a ways behind humans - in particular, LLMs are bad at solving the very deterministic problems that computers have traditionally been used for, like math. However, we shouldn't oversimplify an LLM as "basically a search engine" or "regurgitation machine" either, because that's not true. The best defense for this characterization is that, unlike humans, LLMs have a singular goal of trying to imitate real human output as that's what the loss function compares against, but again, that's not so far off from how humans learn by imitating humans.
You can't draw parallels between something that we have no idea how it works internally (brain) to a program.
The analogy task you mentioned is just word association. Man is to king what woman is to _____ has an inherent association between the words used and can thus be programmed. Its math.
And fyi, the issue is not that we do not want to understand thought or sentience! Far from it. Extensive studies and debates have been going on for decades ,if not millenia, and we still have no concrete definition because the matter at hand is so complex , not that we dont want to understand it! Human studies keep showing us new ways that our body operates and even suggest that not all of what is us resides in the brain. So yeah, even thought transmission , much less how the f do we define it, is not fully understood yet. Philosophers, biologists and physicists have pondered and studied the issue for an untold amount of time , for you to just say "we dont want to understand it".......
You can't draw parallels between something that we have no idea how it works internally (brain) to a program.
Yes you can. Obviously you can. Where did this idea even come from? We can know things about something without understanding it fully. We can know a lot about gravity without a unified theory.
Moreover, we can and regularly do make comparisons between brains! Every day we do that! We look at how they perform on given tasks and draw empirical conclusions.
We also don't understand LLMs. You know that, right? Do you know what the word deterministic means in this context?
Even with all of that, you're now changing your definition of AI even further to being "brain-like". That wasn't previously part of your definition (which is - again - only your definition and not the one everyone else uses). You said think and reason. I don't think all brains think and reason the same way. My own singular brain doesn't think and reason in only one way. I did ask what you meant by think, though, because I don't think you've actually given much thought to what you mean by that.
Ultimately, you're arguing that AI isn't sentient. I'm not saying it is, but sentience isn't a requirement for thought or reasoning and certainly isn't generally a requirement for something to be considered AI.
I'm going to stop at that first sentence. You're very very very off base.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, too much censorship currently compared to in the past
A desktop with a modern GPU can already process AI tasks at a higher/much higher speed than what is required for laptop NPUs.
NPUs do it more efficiently and are less of a drain on the battery. This isn't really an issue when you are on a desktop plugged into the wall.
I have a 4090 and would be seriously disappointed if developers require some "npu" instead of running things on my GPU monster that is 10x faster than anything else anyway
You would be disappointed to realize, but only if you pay for your own electricity, that an NPU could do the same amount of work using 1/10 the amount of power, e.g. spending 1 watt for 10s (10 joules) on a unit of compute that your GPU could crank out in one second spending 100 watts (100 joules). Sure the speed is nice for many things but the NPU if leveraged well will just crunch on non time sensitive work in the background.
A npu is essentially the same as the tensor cores on nvidia cards, so it's actually not all that different
In practice the efficiency is very hit or miss on the GPU. Especially a beefy one. It's just not optimized to sip power, and to get best perf/watt you would need to tweak your GPU quite a bit. For example I like to tune an undervolt on an nvidia GPU to get better temps and quieter fan speeds under load if I don't need the full horsepower, but you have to contend with stuff like higher idle power consumption, inefficient or broken idle clock management, and various driver quirks like that.
But I definitely agree that if e.g. nvidia cared to optimize this aspect of things, yeah if you had a workload fully offloadable only to tensor cores you should be able to do this. But even still, the degree of integration into the rest of the GPU's architecture will lead to less power efficiency due to having to engage the beefy memory systems and such things.
How many years would have to pass to offset the cost of upgrading your system so that your CPU has a NPU vs not upgrading and running the operations in a GPU you already have?
Until it becomes standard to have a 500watt npu/asic card along side gpu card
hate getting all this AI crap I don't need shoved down my throat.
as long as I can disable/uninstall it I'll be ok. the moment it's mandatory I predict a switch to Linux much likely
as long as I can disable/uninstall
It shouldn't even be automatic to begin with, but rather an optional "opt in" feature that can be enabled ONLY if you choose.
Don't let reality get in the way of a good circlejerk/outrage. Its better to be angry about a boogieman than actually correct.
Luckily, Microsoft has reversed course on it and it is opt-in...for now...
It's opt-in and requires biometric passkeys in order to be enabled or accessed. Microsoft cannot decide to change it to "opt-out" anymore for as long as there are PCs without biometrics. And that will be forever.
100% agree
truckthatnevercrashes.gif
i started switching over more fully this year and pop!_os is pretty great for gaming so far. some issues with multiplayer in some games but overall it was a breeze to get up and running with gaming.
Great to have options but you're missing out by ignoring new tech
Microsoft isn't going to decide to drop support for most of the computers in the world. Remember backlash for Vista running badly on old hardware? You might not be able to run certain features, but Microsoft is in the business of selling you an operating system and the Office suite on whatever potato you have. Any computer you build today won't be dropped by Microsoft in its lifetime.
Microsoft already is dropping support for most computers in the world, next year, when Windows 10 goes end-of-life and Windows 11 needs a TPU
I'll believe the Windows 10 eol date 6 months after it's really eol and not a second earlier.
Exactly, I have a 6700k and I can't install w11
you can. its extremely easy to bypass the TPM requirement
Problem is publishers might start checking for that. The highly controversial rootkit-like anti-cheat program that Valorant and now League of Legends use will refuse to let you play on Windows 11 if both Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 are not enabled. What's to stop more from doing that once Windows 10 hits EoL and more people are forced to move onto 11? What's to stop the DRM of games, even single-player ones, from starting to make that a requirement? Imagine if Denuvo made that a requirement for running the game on 11.
That is pretty much our destiny
Doubt it's going to happen anytime soon. LoL only dropped Windows 7 support earlier this year, over 4 years after Windows 7's EOL. And I strongly suspect Windows 10 will have a much larger userbase in 2029 than Windows 7 did in 2024 with Microsoft's 180 on encouraging people to upgrade their OS.
Windows 11 does not actually need a TPU. It's only a soft requirement in the installer.
If you for example did something like take the disk from one PC and put it into a PC without a TPU it works just fine.
Or if you do a tiny modification to the installer through like a basic ISO to USB tool it removes the TPU installer check.
I said “dropping support”. I know Windows 11 doesn’t technically need a TPU, but Microsoft claims it does, which means they as a company don’t support non-TPU hardware.
Technically you can run macOS on many Intel systems, doesn’t mean Apple supports it.
satya isn't going to take a bat to my kneecaps if he finds out someone is running windows 11 on a non-TPU device.
can't say the same about cook and his OS
Tim Apple while he tenderizes your kneecaps: “That’s right, dropping support! Dropping your support to the fucking ground!”
Oh no.
Anyway
I don’t want this co pilot crap, I just use my PC to game. I turn that garbage off.
I never wanted Edge or Cortana either, but that didn't stop them from pushing it down my throat.
Where MS will try to find ways to force these things on consumers, consumers will develop or find ways to remove them.
When I built my PC last year with Windows 11, MS wouldn't let me proceed with setup without signing in to a Microsoft account. Which I have, but I would prefer to limit the amount of data harvesting and intrusive shite they wanna throw at me. Found a video from JayzTwoCents (though there are many other channels detailing this) that show you how to bypass the forced sign-in to an MS account and allow you to just set it up like a blank slate and go from there.
The method I use is to use Rufus (free application) to create a bootable USB drive for Windows 11 installations since the local account workarounds are built-in.
Not for a long time, most people dont have a NPU and upgrade every 3-5+ years.
Maybe win 12?
Win 11 wont.
And if not having an npu means that I can't use copilot, then I'd be very happy because at least I won't have to deal with a stupid ai that is being forcefully shoved down my throat.
IoT LTSC versions are the best because of that.
Microsoft’s long term answer to that may just be to shove the data to a cloud service if you can’t run it locally.
It's just going to do it on the CPU/iGPU/APU/GPU or cloud~
I the NPU is just to do it faster and with lower power use.
Yeah, the npus are basically very power efficient but tbh I would love to have a no nonsense ui without the clutter of ai and whatnot. If I so badly need ai, I can go to openAI and ask ChatGPT my questions
Iv been watching all the Level1tech videos on 'AI at home', as long as you can instal Linux and have the cash for some hardware.
https://youtu.be/ZiPmT_JWNII?si=hIWpNmAPqrDC53PM
I lack the money part, buying parts just for a AI box is past me.
imho desktop pc will be safe
laptops on the other hand i think could suffer the obsolecence you stated
also i recently purchased a new desktop pc just because my old one was old and could not support win 11
i still don't know what to do with the old one, none wants it
Turn it into a media server or a way to create back ups on too
You'll need to upgrade cpu/motherboard eventually, pc case is the only future proof part
NPU is "neural processing unit" if anyone didn't know (like me).
Thanks
LLM madness is going to blow over. Not entirely, the tech isn't going back in the box...but the tech also isn't this great leap forward that it's being painted as.
Switch to Linux, fuck windows.
Honestly I would, if my games ran on it.
Which games? Linux gaming has come a long way in the last ten years.
Rocket league. Tbh I'm a casual gamer so this is the only game that I really play just to chill. I mean, I've heard it can run using Proton but I've also heard that the performance is not good.
Steam works with Proton. Everything in Steam runs ok, majorly.
For others, there is Lutris:
Thanks, I'll give it a shot.
It played fine for me back when I played it for a bit. I’d recommend trying through the heroic games launcher.
All the games I actually play lol.
Battlefield 2042, COD MW3, R6 Seige.
Check protondb, but I’m pretty sure none of those will work.
I did, they all say borked.
It’s the kind of anti cheat they use.
Right, but the point is I can't use Linux to game because the games I want to pay don't work there.
Pretty much everything I play is on gamepass, which explicitly isn't supported on Linux and I doubt that would change anytime soon. While yes I could buy the games I want to play on Steam, that could easily cost me hundreds especially since I access gamepass through family sharing and therefore don't pay for it.
Also unfortunately there are some competitive games I won't to play that won't work (Fortnite doesn't work on Linux, while EAC does support Proton it has an option to explicitly block Proton).
I don’t play it, but accord to protondb it’s steam deck verified so it should work on any Linux distro.
Aye aye.
I doubt it, since most desktop GPUs can handle the demands of AI programs.
The TOPS requirement Microsoft is pushing right now is 40. A 4060ti pushes about 350 TOPS. It is unlikely that any CPU will ever exceed the AI capacity of even a mid level GPU.
I think that this type of thing that you point out is going to end up being the impetus for Linux becoming main stream.
At some point people are going to want control of their computers back
If I had a nickel for every “this will be the thing that pushes people to Linux” I’d be worth more than Nvidia. People have shown repeatedly that they don’t care. As long as it works for what they need it to do no one’s going to switch.
so it would seem that the Linux niche is heavily customized OSes for specific purposes, like a gaming console.
Right, people like linux once it's been customized/tailored to a device/experience that is narrowed down to the point it doesn't register as "going on the computer".
I think that this type of thing that you point out is going to end up being the impetus for Linux becoming main stream.
It will never dominate the casual market and I don't know why this isn't something y'all understand. Chrome OS did a better job than Linux. No OEM will adopt Linux because they have zero reason or incentive to.
(chrome os is linux distro)
I doubt it. People care more about reliability/stability than total control.
Which is why Linux dominates the server market - stability & reliability. Oh, & total control too.
Desktops are a small portion of the PC market, and OEMs ship a majority of them anyways. That means almost all PCs, an OEM chooses your OS and they’re just going to pick windows because it’s simple, recognized, and will yield the least support requests. Everyone but power users tends to just use the OS they have.
At some point people are going to want control of their computers back
And who are those people? Those who have security concerns is an insignificant percentage compared to the average joe or jane user who just want it to work. As I see it, it would have to create a massive data breach for the average person to take notice of anything that is used against them via microsoft. They have already been conditioned to accept just about anything thrown at them, and willingly share personal information. And I hate to say it, but only about 1/3rd of the IT people at work I would consider privacy minded, the rest of them suck on ms's teat, ms can do no wrong, edge is the best, one drive! woo! you get the picture. And with computers being as powerful as they are these days nobody will even notice any performance hit from some other background task.
next few years? no. maybe next few versions of windows. definitely not 11 and definitely not 12
What
Been thinking that for a while but it's really time to switch to Linux
No and I think everyone's being overly dramatic about this
No chance they do this in the next few years. They'd lose a huge amount of potential customers, since most people are using 4+ year old CPUs.
No chance in hell they mandate it. Microsoft want to maintain their functional monopolies in developing nations as well as developed nations.
I would not let this fear stop me from purchasing a PC now if I needed a PC now.
Eh, give it another year or two and they will forget about it after nobody wants it, like how they tried to force the new UI with 8 and everyone hated it. The hype with AI will likely have died down a bit by then too, everyone and their grandmother is trying to shove AI into everything, the boom won't last.
AI itself might not be going anywhere, but the hype and wanting to put it in everything is going to die down drastically.
I dont think that will ever happen, theyd simply be pushing gaming customers away from windows and the xbox ecosystem. And, theyve changed course with recall, itll be strictly opt-in.
Hard to see that at the moment all the new “ai”program run off the gpu or cloud so I don’t see and AI proceed being comparative for a few years
Of course they will, there's profit to be made controlling every aspect of our activities.
i would buy what you need NOW before your h/w choices are limited by M$ market pressure.
personally i hope their gambit fails and they lose massive market share to linux as ppl seem genuinely repulsed by the whole Recall campaign.
Mandatory? No.
Thank God you didn't type "h-e-double hockey sticks"! That would have been pretty fucked up dude.
I don't think they will be as "manditory" as they made TPM. It will simply have something in windows saying you don't meet the requirements for Co-Pilot
After dithering for a long time, I implemented a flawless Rufus Windows 10 plus Windows 11 dual boot whereby the Rufus installation media instructs windows not to probe for TPM, secure boot, etc. I don't know why I waited so long.
No.
AMD and Intel still have architectures without NPU. Those would have to transition to ones with NPU or just go away if this were the case. I haven't seen a R3 or i3 without NPU yet
MS has been hellbent on a lot of projects that flamed out in the past.
I'm just gonna wait and see.
Honestly I'm about to switch permanently to Linux at the rate MS is slapping all this Spyware with AI on everything.
Send me a DM when any Linux distro has ubiquitous speech recognition built into the OS.
I see you missed the entire point of my post.
And you, mine.
Almost definitely, but Win11 is still young. I wouldn’t expect it to be mandatory until the next major version of Windows, and by the time that releases I have a feeling that included NPUs are just going to become the norm across all models of CPU anyway.
Yes, Microsoft is the only company pursuing AI right now.. they are alone and definitely not every single app/service/hardware vendor under the sun is also pushing that. They stand alone.
It's alright. I'm still on windows 10. I'm not fussed about upgrading anytime soon. And there's always Linux. Maybe it's time to learn a new OS.
That damn copilot wasn't easy to disable either, i dont want no godamn AI remembering anything of my search histories. 😅😅😅
Windows 12 reportedly already has a minimum TOPS requirement in order to run it. It'll be the Windows 11 requirements all over again, except this time they won't be able to be worked around.
Remember 3D TVs?
Fuck Microsoft.
Dude i'm installing Windows 11 24H2 on 15 year old machines since days.
There is ALWAYS a way to work around silly restrictions. It's just 4 clicks in this case.
Ngl, if that’s the case, I’m staying on win 10 forever
If that's the case I will switch to Linux and use Windows ONLY for gaming.
In the future, I might switch to linux.
I don't think they're going to make it a requirement of windows 11 but maybe they'll do Windows 11 SP1 with new system requirements? I think more likely is Windows 12 might require a neural processor. One step closer to Linux being mainstream.
If they do, I will not be using Windows. Linux users would rejoice as many others move to it.
No because they are introducing support for GPUs as well.
I think it's time that Microsoft starts offering any Windows license key-holder the option of installing a Kernel and Shell-only version of windows, which will accept custom desktop environment, and custom window manager to be installed.
Essentially allow the flexibility that GNU/Linux operating systems have. You start with the basics, and choose your own interface software. Basically allow me to escape the absolute nonsense of Windows 11. I don't even want to go back to any previous Windows paradigms. We could make something better from scratch.
Windows is a very powerful and comprehensive collection of backend features, with extremely powerful libraries (like DirectX), and very flexible APIs. The only problem is that Microsoft sucks at building their own operating system, or rather they no longer care to make it appealing to anyone who is proficient with computers.
Honestly, Microsoft doesn't even need to offer this as a default feature. I would be willing to pay out of my pocket for this. Charge me $100 for a 4 year support/update timeframe, I would gladly do that.
I'm really ready to jump ship from Windows. Microsoft's interests feel like they are very far from mine. Ever since the launch of Windows 10, I feel like Microsoft no longer cares about its power users.
Microsoft is far too busy bolstering the future value of its stock by using the word "AI" as much as it possibly can across its software catalog. They know that investors are looking for AI buzzwords, and they would be in financial trouble if they didn't have the appearance of trying to become a future AI industry giant.
Seems unlikely, but possible. I'd say a 20-30% chance of it happening. I'm sure they'd refute this happening if asked about it currently.
AI should be a feature, not the main event.
What’s the concern? All CPUs coming have NPUs as is, and Copilot will eventually work with NVIDIA (and likely AMD and Intel) dGPUs. You’ll have the ability to run windows one way or another even with older CPU. As for MS ‘requiring’ it, that is almost 100% certain to run its features in hardware one way or another.
It will be a total flop. But middle managers jobs don't justify their own existence now do they?
They certainly will not.
Their business customers will scream if they do.
Speaking from ignorance here, but I imagine they’ll eventually make NPUs that can slot into an existing format like an NVMe or a PCIe slot. It would be absolutely stupid not to.
No matter what they push, it will be able to be disabled. Either through a Windows setting or 3rd party. There MUST be a way to disable it if they want to sell the computer in the EU. It's the law. Reasons like that is why it's possible to uninstall Internet Explorer/Edge.
Most people don't need any of that "AI" gimmick crap
I'm sure someone thinks that. I don't
We all thought they couldn't possibly do it for TPM, or blatantly lock it to specific CPUs, and they did both. It's anyone's guess, but I'd say it's stupid enough that Microsoft would do it.
Yeah i think that is a fair assumption but i also think if you buy the newest chips just announced by amd and Intel when they ship you will be ok.
I hope they have npu as a pcie add on card!
Linux user counts would go up. I'm not sure microsoft is going to produce their own CPU, that seems like a stretch.
Not gonna happen, imo. Too much enterprise relies on Microsoft to be forced into something like that. There would be major lawsuits. Remember that private customers are only a tiny part of income, so you and I don't mean shit. But enterprises, that's where MS makes most money, they sure are powerful and important for MS. They can make it optional, they can make some feature limitations if it's not available, but they won't mandate anything. So absolutely not.
Buy a PC. The GPU is already more efficient compared to an NPU.
Microsoft can bite my shiny metal ass. I'm at the point again where I'm about to just switch to Linux.
Any good gpu could do that stuff faster than an integrated gpu, it’s just that way for laptops and stuff because the NPUs are really efficient
No, they’ll make you pay for a service for them to do it over the internet
We'll see a massive exodus from Windows to Linux and Linux growing rapidly.
All I can trust Microsoft to do is something that is in their interest and not care if it's the customer's expense. IE abuse their monopoly yet again.