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Didn't see the sub and thought this was a meme about drinking on the job
it is. just from a very specific point of view.
Soulsborne protagonists are all empowered by their crippling estus addiction.
Always drinking Sunny D in critical moments, incorrigible.
Pretty hard not to be with a DLC like that XD
It's good shit man
Me when I learned the boss' pattern, wait for the insane combo to finish, hit that flask the nano-second they finish.
The boss attack's animation is quicker than the drinking animation
this is how I usually died
I swear either the drinking potion animation slows down and speeds up depending on when you use it after the combo is done, or the boss speeds their move up. Idk but something is up.
There's also animation canceling hits, if you hit a boss just barely enough to do the small stagger, it can cause them to cancel their current attack and swap to another.
This means you could trade for one hit, and get instantly smacked before you can recover since the boss instantly recovered.
Orphan of kos was infamous for it.
in most cases, its the boss speeds up their move.
or rather, they cancel the recovery on the previous combo with the input read punish. so it comes out a lot faster than a "natural" attack would after the combo
You cant tell me thats not artificial difficulty.
input reading absolutely is. the enemy knows what you're doing before it even happens, it's stupid
I don't think anyone would even attempt to argue otherwise, it's literally the point in having the feature.
Doesn't that defeat the point of the bosses being challenging but fair? I thought that's what everyone praised dark souls design for
It used to be.
When every game is designed to be harder than the last you eventually have to start resorting to BS
Yes and one of the reasons you could argue that FROM's Soulsborne games are on a downhill trend. Not to be a debbie downer but I think a lot of the charm has been lost from the series even as early as going from DeS -> DS. ER will probably be the last one I purchase on launch at full price (I still enjoy them immensely, I'm sure I'll still want to play whatever's next).
Tbh i haven't play much Souls like or even action games where boss cancel their animation as egregious as Elden Ring boss. One of the reason i found a lot of boss easier in other game cause it is just blatantly bs in Elden Ring from time to time.
You're right I can't.
The drinking has just become outdated for the level of combat we're at now. It worked in Dark Souls because everything was toned down but ER jacks the fuck out of all the mobs and bosses and our poor hero is still out here chugging Sunny Delight like he's frolicking through Lordran.
They gotta give us something quicker like the Bloodborne jab in the next game if they're gonna keep the combat where it's at.
my guy its the same with dodging sometimes as well, its like the game can't handle the action queue. usually when its hectic attacks with "environmental" visuals I find.
I swear I have the frame timing nearly perfect after a heal when I can roll and so many times the game just decides to say “nah you didn’t press it” like ok guess I suck
SO IT'S NOT JUST ME!? So many times I literally press it multiple times, but NO! No dodge for me!
No, it's everyone. I mainly had that issue with swinging heavy weapons, where if I pressed the attack input twice, but then hit the dodge button DURING the first attack to dodge something incoming, it didn't cancel the second attack. It would just say "nope, I had another attack queued up and you're locked into this shit, eat that damage".
I eventually learned to be VERY deliberate with R1 presses because the dodge apparently did not take priority.
Its very common in fighting games too like Tekken especially when you play against a CPU. You dont only control your character you control the CPU as well lol. To combat this you need to learn your spacing. I tested this with Magrid the fell Omen and as soon as i roll out of his reach and backed away, he stops attacking and slowly moves towards me, then as soon as i take a Flask he immediately rushed forward to attack. LOL the CPU in this game hilarious. The Ai also performs even better when you have lock-on on it making it even easier for them to land a hit.
It's pretty weird cus I swear this wasn't as bad or even something that happened too much in the souls games.
I remember some of the bosses in DS3 doing it, like champion Gundyr. However, they were still designed more fairly because their speed was still kept fully manageable.
I have a video of me fighting Champion Gundyr where I chug pretty much in his face between his combos or right on the edge of his range. There's even one moment where his halberd whiffed my character's face by a few pixels when I was healing. It looked like blade was resting on my shoulder.
People shit on DS3 a lot but I thought it had a good showcase of aggressive, combo heavy bosses that were still very manageable--- after all, a lot of complaints about DS3 was that it was too easy.
I wonder how many people are missing that now with Elden Ring.
They probably just took it to another level giving players smaller openings. They also removed some of the limitations for bosses and made them do more combos etc. just cus the tech got better over time.
What system are you playing on?
I'm on PC and the game eats inputs pretty frequently, but I thought it was just because my PC sucks.
I always had this with ER, and honestly thought it was my pad.
Nah, it's 100% the game and it has gotten way worse with the DLC. I was fighting the final boss last night, and it ignored 7 attack inputs in a row between framerate drops and just zero response.
I played through the entire base game with almost zero issues but the entirety of Erdtree was plagued with it.
It's because dodge rolling is activated on the button release, rather than the button press.
Because rolling and sprinting is mapped to the same button, the game can't activate a roll on button press, because it needs to make sure you aren't trying to sprint when you press the button, so instead it dodge rolls on the button release as long as its released within a certain amount of time.
This is what causes 90% of those "I swear I pressed the button" moments. Because even though you did press the button, you might not have released it in time.
It's an absolutely dreadful way to handle something that needs precision like rolling, especially when they crank up the difficulty so much that the split second longer it takes to roll can be the difference between life and death.
I really hope the next souls game we get has a dedicated roll button, and running is tied to the jump button instead.
Nah, the running and jumping would be a PITA. Ds2 had the sprint and jump be on the same button, total nightmare.
I'm so glad, I be hitting that mf heal and my guy just says nuh uh and keeps walking
I find it worse with parry. Mis timing a party and getting nailed is one thing. Pressing parry and standing there motionless while I get skewered is another.
My favorite is the devs went for a long windup then fast approach for their flask input reads. So even if you think you’re gonna make it, the last second the boss will get the hit. And is cheap as fuck. The second you press flask that thing is coming out 10/10 times.
I had a lot of fun with most of the dlc bosses. But it did get annoying at points. I really hate that if you get hit by a combo you need to dodge another before being able to heal. Most main game bosses gave you some breaks to back up. Even Malenia would let you sprint away. I think a big reason I liked Messmer is that he would back off in neutral.
Sometimes you need to get through several long ass combos for a window long enough to heal. It's insane.
Cough certain triple slash combo from a certain final boss cough
Seriously. Also, did I miss something I though wondrous flask was the same speed as the crimson/cerulean or was that just a mental thing?
Nope, it has always been slower
You want to drink from the flask while the final animation is finishing. If you wait until they're in "select a move" mode, they will definitely punish you if you're within range of whatever their flask punishing move is.
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2d
Use perfume while you can, fight smelly bullshit with good smelling perfume!
I'm on PC, so I just scummed my save and 3 shot him with rolling sparks. No regrets.
Apparently Radahns left right into x-swing was faster in the review copy version than it’s on the live version. If you got hit either by one of his swings or lightning it would jiggle you just long enough that he would finish the entire combo without you being able to do anything against it.
That was happening to me just yesterday. I guess it depends if I had a really bad dodge.
This only really applied to Radahn most pathetic thing is after the grab attack in the second phase if you dodge it you can't even punish it with anything bigger than a longsword or he'll have retaliated again
Huh? I punished that consistently with a colossal greatsword R1 and sometimes got away with R2, here's ongbal punishing it with a thrusting sword R2. https://youtu.be/JeBOIYnVq54?t=202
Also sometimes the estus animation is extra laggy
I never thought the animation was too long before this dlc. Now I’m screaming at my character to drink faster
"YOU TAKE THE SIPPY QUICKLY, YOU ARE NOT SIPPING ON WINE AT A TASTING" - Me micromanaging my character on proper Estus chugging
Triggering an input read can animation cancel.
The Bell Bearing Hunter/Elemer is absolute bullshit for this. It feels broken, like they accidentally made him recover too quickly from his attacks.
The timing on a lot of boss animations in the DLC feels screwed up. The time it takes for them to recover after being crit feels much faster than in the base game. In the base game you I could always gett off a prayerful strike while the boss stands up and not get hit. In the DLC there are some bosses where that definitely ended with me trading damage. Also some bosses recover really fast after being poise broken it feels like.
MESSMER PLEASE, I WOULD LIKE JUST A DROP OF HEALTHCARE!!!
NGL, Messmer would almost always just…stare and do nothing almost every single time I took a swig, he was a very patient lad for me.
He also has a few combos that end with a huge slam to the ground that he takes so long to recover from you’ve got enough time for two flasks or multiple attacks.
Yeah his orb attack in his second phase is more punishable and all of his snake moves while hitting like trucks are easily telegraphed and keeps him from using his much stronger first phase moveset.
Messmer is American confirmed
Those stripped of the grace of healthcare shall all meet death, in the embrace of crippling debt.
I actually didn't find him to have *any* input reading. He had long periods of just standing around, and while he does have a spear throw, he wouldn't immediately start it the second I entered my Flask animation.
You fought a different boss than me apparently
He didn't throw a spear upon using flask, but the safe spot after his combo (that was usually enough for my attack) wasn't enough for drinking estus - boss literally went into another attack earlier than if I used my attack instead of flask. Had this scenario happen numerous times.
For someone who literally built a hospital wing in his castle, he seems oddly adamant that we don't drink our meds.
Messmer is kneeling or slow walking half the fight, what are you talking about
Also your POV every time you just stepped through the fog door.
Gaius... I based my tears around getting smashed immediately upon entering the fog wall just so I'd stop dying 11/10 times entering
The one second delay on summons.. takes most bosses less than that to traverse the entire arena and hit you for 80-100% hp
Gaius would hit you 50% of the time regardless unless you immediately got on torrent and sprinted and then you're not even getting away as he'll either get you anyway on torrent or the second you get off him.
I made it so I could always survive summoning immediately and then heal and pray my mimic took agro so I could at least TRY to hit him.
But luckily icelance is god mode against him
Yeah every major boss immediately dives at you it's weird. Like if they wanna do that at least let us summon behind the fog door. That would solve the problem and save so much wasted time on loading screens because it's a gamble whether you'll live or not.
I think they wanted to get rid of comet azure cheese. As an int build on ng+. On mohg I put down tera Magicka, drank physio, walked into his room and held R1. Dead Mohg in 10 seconds. Not the only boss I cheesed this way. I think morgott ate it too.
I'm on ps4... Immediately die, wait 3 mins for loading screen, repeat
Oof. I think those loading times would make me wanna ragequit more than the bosses.
Yeah it's pretty bad xD
This is the greatest feature of the PS5. The biggest step from the PS4. The fast loading is fantastic.
That one time when I died so dang fast my rune drop before the fog gate.
I got so good at dodge rolling that mf, I almost achieved this state of zen like calm with perfect dodges.
If you run around the corner on the left and immediately hug that wall, he gets stuck on the corner which gives you enough time to summon.
I just started eating the attack while blocking with a greatshield. Doesn't hurt too much and he just rushes through you, giving you a window to summon or attack.
The final boss won't give me a moment to breathe when I step in. I can barely summon my mimic before he curbstomps me
I found that if I immediately run towards him for a few steps he won't do that bs spinning jump
messmer charging me the moment i got through the door was so consistent for me that i figured out i could buffer mimic tear -> flask -> dodge -> dodge and it would always avoid his first attack
Same Im pretty sure it's scripted that way
I think that's for me the biggest difference between the base game and the DLC.
In the base game I used to proc things like shrimps after entering. In the DLC, especially some bosses like the last one, I had to use them before otherwise I'd be immediatelly killed.
Its really funny to see just how blatant the input reading is with spells like Magic Glintblade, where the enemy dodges as soon as you finish casting, but never, ever attempts to try and dodge the spell once it's done charging.
its REALLY funny when you summon the spirit ash of the two mechanical dudes who rapid fire bow shots at enemies.
Any enemy with projectile dodge input reading(like npc invasions) will try to dodge roll EVERY single arrow, which is a huge constant barrage, leading to npcs just roll spamming everywhere and never attacking.
It makes it impossible to use ranged attacks
I would have quit my mage build a long time ago if it wasn't for Rancorcall tbh. The input reading is so blatantly obvious it's so demoralizing
Yeah I'm only using ancient death rancor and nightcomet build now because I'm sick of it
Oracle bubble spell (the single big one) is incredible for this. It travels slowly, but has really good tracking and range, so the boss dodges and then just walks into them. They also do really solid damage for how little fp they cost, and they seem to have an ok amount of stagger.
Damn I knew I should of level enough to equip that. Magic is stressful. How I miss running around naked with the zweihander and turning my brain off
I larval teared down my int a touch and upped my arcane to use it. Best decision I made all run lol.
I should stop stockpiling so many. It hurts finding amazing weapons I can't enjoy fully
Rock sling, too. It has a long cast (and can collide with terrain) but the enemy will dodge at the beginning of the cast and not when the rocks fly out so they get hit the majority of the time.
Night sorceries too! They were the GOAT against Invader npc and lions
Night comet is basically invisible to NPCs. They will sometimes input dodge it, but only once per spam session.
One time I respecced my stamina to be absurdly large then used the bow ash that fires continuously until you run out of stamina on an npc invader and, yes, they can dodge infinite times. Guy hit about 50 input read dodges with no breaks until I ran out of stamina (from like 80 endurance)
You can aim away from the enemy and then snap on last second before firing to prevent the input reading. Its not fun gameplay but works even on bosses.
But you see the dlc doesn't have problems! Meanwhile any build that isn't melee is useless.
I love how that's a complete turn around
"Sir, how do we fix cheesing the bosses with spells? Should have we thought of a better system instead of doing the same thing since demon souls?"
"...nah, so, basically you take away mimic tear's aggro, then give input dodging to everything and make them extremely aggressive"
The halo scythe has a delayed ranged attack that beats input reading.
Are you using the attacks with the boss locked?
I swear those star beasts will rampage out of range of my queued up glintblades just to stand out of range and watch them all hit air. Just looking me in the eyes like really?
This is why the shooting star spells are somewhat slept on imo
There are certain NPCs that also have input reading like that one Knight I forgot the name of at the top of the academy. After that one part with the rolling ball on the stairs.
If you use something with a lot of reach, like a spear, he literally can't deal with it because he thinks he is out of reach of the attack and doesn't parry and just eats the attacks without even blocking. So if you space it right, you can just spam light attacks. But if he even gets one inch too close, he immedietly parries.
She's not even hard at all but Dancer of Ranah pissed me off so much with her bullshit "I'm gonna backstep if you even think of pressing R1"
Lol I found that out by accident as well. This game really rewards long range pokes and running attacks.
Oh my god 💀
Lmfao she really is a Dancer!!
i killed every single NPC (minus the gank squad) in the same exact way: CR2 poke with claymore. NPCs just walk right into it. even dancer would backstep on input and then walk into it as long as i started it when she was close enough to me.
Giant Hunt trivializes literally every human enemy. The Game's AI is atrocious so they don't react to it given how far away you can start the attack. And it sends them up flying which allows you to perfectly time the next giant hunt to perma-cc them.
I would bloody slash and she would hop perfectly out of range. And then that meant I was down on health AND blue.
Omg she pissed me off so much lol
First boss where the fight was only hard because of how annoying it was
She's a poiselet though. Once you get a good hit in, you can snowball. That Rakshasa dude though just spams his weapon art over and over again. I didn't get a poise break at any point in the whole fight.
Rakshasa's weapon art is incredibly easy to parry. I died like 5 times before realizing her sword was basically a big rivers of blood. Next fight i beat her without getting hit.
I'll note that down for next time. I used a mixture of storm blade and powerstanced Grossmesser attacks. I managed to beat her on my first try.
Me with my Spear of Siluria, demonstrating why spears > swords: "No, I win these trades, Rakshasa."
It's also easy to punish with a ranged attack, which is what I did using the Ring of Light spells.
"Giants flame take thee" can help with that.
I'll give that a go when I replay the DLC with a faith build. I'm currently running a quality build with a few different weapon classes to cycle through.
You can beat all the mausoleum bosses by just hitting endure and spamming a weapon art.
I killed them all easily with waterfowl dance that way.
It was Milady with Wing Stance for me. One tried Rakshasa using the heavy with that weapon art.
I had to stop myself from just spamming Siluria's Woe at them, because it was like firing a gauss rifle at them from the other side of the arena that knocked them on their ass everytime they tried to stand up.
Luckily, I found the Death Knight's Longhaft Axe and suddenly, my weapon art was all about getting in their face.
Neither did I! I thought there was something wrong with me. Defeated the boss after many attempts but never once broke his poise at any point.
Sometimes you just don't wanna do a pvp-style fight, and that's when you bring out the greatshield with shield crash. Rennala was even more of an absolute joke with this setup as well.
For all the roll-spam bosses Rellana’s great sword is so clutch. It’s AoW light attack second hits the roll to dodge the first hit every time.
Now I know how the boss feels when they slap my panic roll and damn it feels good to
I managed to beat her cause I just spammed Lions Claw on my Great Stars weapon. Everytime I pressed L2 shed step back during the initial animation, rush me and then proceed to eat the whole attack. Couple that with its inate bleed build up and bloodflame weapon incantation and I turned her coming out party into a funeral.
The final boss can start a charge attack after you activate your flask but before you recover from the animation... total RNG whether or not he decides to use it.
I don't think anything has infuriated me more in a FROM game.
The heal punishes are honestly pretty bad. Like, I'm a fan of the DLC, but holy hell the way some bosses zero in on you the millisecond you hit that heal button is insane. It would be fine if you could at least cancel the animation, or if the animation was faster.
Idk I almost wish there was like a talisman or a tear that made the healing animation faster. I feel like I'm fighting bloodborne enemies with slow ass dark souls animations.
Yes! Like there is only so much I can do to disengage from this super-fast boss who has been comboing off for 10 moves in a row, can I at least get a heal off when I'm across the room from him?
First time I noticed it being really bad was Godskin Apostle in Caelid. Every time you press to drink you get black flames thrown at you.
There are people who deny it even exists, say stuff like how it’s now input reading it’s your bad timing. It has nothing to do with timing. A button gets pushed and the boss reacts with an attack and there are countless videos showing it.
It’s real, and it’s real bad at times.
The idea that there isn't input readying (I know technically the game is reading frame 0 of the animation, not the actual button input) is laughably absurd. Just play a mage and cast rock fling once. Every enemy with input reading dodges back at the cast, but since the cast and projectile take so long they always end up hit by the rocks.
same with the new smithscript shield's throwing attack
fromsoft really didn't give a shit about mage/ranged builds when balancing the game
At least with the Godskins, you could put enough distance to strafe the fireball while drinking. Some bosses will simply hit you no matter what if you try to heal while not being on the literal other side of the arena.
Idk how folks can pretend it isn't real when Margit is notorious for it. Gotta earn those sips.
Idk I almost wish there was like a talisman or a tear that made the healing animation faster. I feel like I'm fighting bloodborne enemies with slow ass dark souls animations.
It's why Jori is one of my favorite fights. He's not bloodborn, he just requires some basic thought and he's incredibly punishing if you just try to be "Melee guy".
His summons were super annoying to deal with. I just ended up stacking buffs to basically out DPS him.
you just need better heal timings
me at messmer rn… getting my cheeks clapped profusely
embrace thine oblivion
roll into him and r1, he has big gaps in some of his strings, but you need a lot of stamina to punish every window and a big range weapon for some I think
The trick to these games is to stop panic rolling so that you can instead focus on learning how to deal with each boss ability through trial and error. This is particularly true of Messmer.
I know that sounds like obvious advice, but I'm confident most players aren't actually doing this so it's worth repeating. I'm not even trying to say that the issue with panic rolling is that you will get hit more often than if you don't panic roll, because that's the obvious and shallow reason to not panic roll. Instead, what I'm trying to say is a more nuanced point, which is that panic rolling basically randomizes your actions against the boss which prevents you from learning anything about a boss ability. I'm not trying to say "panic rolling will make you get hit less". Rather, I'm trying to say that "panic rolling will enable you to learn how to counter each boss ability through trial and error, which will eventually make you get hit less".
Once you stop panic rolling, you'll immediately be able to learn valuable information on your next attempt like "oh, i probably rolled that too early". Suddenly your deaths are productive whereas with panic rolling you're essentially waiting for the attempt in which your random rolling happens to line up with the correct dodge windows.
Me telling myself this during my buff set up and immediately forgetting it the second i walk thru the fog gate
“Dont panic roll!” But like, im panicking????
Messmer phase 2 is especially where I realized panic rolling was not going to work. When the roll timings clicked for me I felt like a god
Got him this morning, what really fucked me up the wall was people putting notes down on the summon spawn... I don't have time to click "yes" on the spawn choice let alone click through peoples stupid notes with my directional buttons.
Mr. Hornsent can help you, and you wont get the summoning health penalty
me spamming back B knowing i just pressed x to heal and im dead
Me spamming x thinking it'll make it go faster but instead chugging 5 charges in one go
Me spamming double sip vus I know I'm getting punished foe the 1st one
forget about input reading, these dudes are nerve stimulus reading, they know i'm gonna flask before i know
Input reading is how I beat the dancer chick and the bear guy in the DLC, I discovered that pressing my ash of war, which was Lion Claw by the way, would cause them to step back, rush me, and then proceed to eat the attack. Only for them to step back and get hit by the attack. Lather, rinse, repeat, enemy felled. They thought they were being so slick and I got them in a pattern.
What happens when they rely on lazy input reading and not actually designing a boss
The bosses will always input read the “use item” button to punish you. You can try it on Tree Sentinel at the very beginning, he will always do the charging attack when player uses the flask.
Same as waterfowl if she is at 70%hp and hasn’t use the move, you can walk away and flask or press R1 to forces her into waterfowl.
Thats how i best malenia i noticed she does it on item ise and i just baited her with throwing knives, this is stup8d design shouldnt have come back in the dlc imo
I did the same shit earlier tonight when I killed her, lol. Using a UGS and getting killed from 100% hp because you commit to an attack that she just hyper-armors through was just too much for me. I wanted to beat her using only the sword, but I couldn't be assed to deal with that nonsense anymore.
Nah you shouldnt feel any shred of bad about, the first attack of waterfowl is objectively bullshit
This is the one thing I'd call 'cheap' when it comes to making a game hard. Very perceivable input read like this just isn't great game design, because it takes you out of the game with how forced it feels.
Yep, basically the Ai will automatically steal one of your input as its own just like in fighting games until you find that sweet sweet cheese method. But then again it would be very hard to design an Ai that can perform a punish or a counter if it doesnt steal your move.
In MHW the monsters are designed alot better because some of the Enemy move sets can be offensive and defensive at the same time so there is no punish mechanics, or "move/input steal mechanics". Monsters can still do a stagger on you as well as stuns, but most of your mistakes are usually from lack of informations which is how combat should be designed.
I've often pondered how you could get it to work in video games. the solution I often arrive at is just a small decision making algorithm with small delay margins to make it feel more "human". Aka "1/2 chance I do punish this, but when I do make the input between 4-24 frames delayed so that when I do make the decision to punish, at least I can also fuck it up with how slow I chose to capitalize on it." That same concept is used when making quantized midi tracks in music. Add small delays and intensity variation to make it feel more human.
if it's not safe to attack, it's not safe to heal
edit: just to be clear, what i meant is use the openings during boss combos to heal. backing off and healing in neutral does not work here, so stop trying to do it. we aren't in dark souls anymore, get with the program.
True but input reading on flasks is a thing. Well I don't think so anymore but it was.
It's not true input reading, but it literally is. The recognize the animation for healing with a flask. Which starts the same frame you push the button
which means they frame 1 react to your input
It isn’t, but only in the sense that the trigger mechanism that makes the boss immediately attack you whenever you drink is technically different from traditional input reading
Though in practice, it’s the same thing.
Animation reading I know. Same effect different packaging.
I think base game enemies are worse at it. I feel like Apostle and Malenia are programmed to punish your drink like 95% of the time. But the DLC bosses let you get away with it some times
Some non bosses certainly do it and it's maddening. I'm just happy none of the bosses do it anymore.
fucking crucible knights can suck a fat one. Get chipped down to a low level and they just fucking walk at you briskly forever. the second you pull out that flask you're getting a sword/spear through the face.
POV: Me literally just trying to summon my mimic can you give me 5 fucking seconds
When I do a fast attack to hit my opponent when they're healing its a punish
When a boss does it this bitch is input reading
We are not the same
This is why this community frustrates me sometimes. They want to act like we are whining about the difficulty. But it has been known for a while now that the AI can read when you press the flask button and will sometimes stop mid animation to dash to you to punish you for it.
This wasn’t a thing in some of the older Souls games.
This is why this community frustrates me sometimes. They want to act like we are whining about the difficulty. But it has been known for a while now that the AI can read when you press the flask button and will sometimes stop mid animation to dash to you to punish you for it.
Examples of them actually stopping mid-animation?
It's safe to heal while you know they're in the middle of an commit animation. Even with Crucible Knights.
Never heal while they're idle. Always when they're in the last chain in a combo and you're far enough away.
The problem is some attacks are still fast enough to get you, if you heal during a commit but the commit was short they can still immediately go into their punish and hit you.
For an early game example, drinking during margits mellee knive attacks finisher is likely to get you punished as he can very quickly use his knive throw punish after.
The AI can see the flask drinking animation and can react to it with a move. The AI has also been able to do this since at least Dark Souls 1. It is much faster and more obvious in Elden Ring, though.
This is so cringe, whenever inout reading is brought up people say "its not input reading the ai sees the animation!", the end result is the exact same thing because the ai has no delay and they react the frame the animation starts.
This is me fighting the evergaol crucible knight on a new character.
DLC bosses remind me of the MHW iceborne monsters. All crackheads
Mohg somehow making his spear extend way farther than it feels like it should when I’m halfway across the arena.
Crucible Knight : 'Wears heavy ass armor, but the moment you even contemplate taking a sip, flies across the screen with the sword stretching all the way out'
Hot take: it's good that bosses punish you for healing in their faces in neutral. Just learn to time your heals and don't expect the boss to let you heal for free and blame the game when you're punished for bad play.
Yeah. I learned this after noticing that at certain moments, Crucible Knights and Morgott wouldn't react to my heals. So I abused those moments.
Same with NPC enemies. Sometimes they just do nothing but walk towards you cautiously. The AI is waiting for you to make a mistake and punish you. Which is why I always react with caution when they're not attacking. It's definitely not safe.
Boss is on the other side of the arena when you drink, gives you hug before your first sip.
12 flasks left
Half hp
Dodge boss animation
Drink flask, get the heal off
Instantly took another hit before animation finished
11 flasks, half hp again
Repeat until I use 6 flasks before I'm full
Crucible knights are the real experts in input reading the flasks
Meanwhile some bosses just "RP walk" or strafe when I start doing it as well after they punted me across the room, like we're staring each other down. Then there's bosses like Black Knives that will grab me, stab me, then let me get up without rolling, drink a flask and pick up where we left off at a leisurely pace. Some of them are very polite and fun when you're "slow pacing" the fight. Really fun.
You just got through the fog wall and are exiting the animation:
Me when I go to summon because gatekeeping players tell me that summons are a requirement and it's a challenge run to not use them somehow and the boss decides to do a 500mph gap closer and one shot me for trying to summon.
Input reads are fucking stupid, that's on top of every boss in the DLC having fire giant HP for no reason lmao
I use it against them, bait out an attack just out of reach then slap their hands.
I often think: I can either try and dodge this, or just drink and take the hit for a zero-sum change, and then drink again right after to gain health.
Quite literally Hoarah Loux's phase 2
Technically they're state reading. Your state changes as soon as you make an input, so for the most part it's the same. They have zero reaction time.
Get a reasonable distance and use healing incantations. The bosses are so stupid and it's so obvious they're just built to punish you for the sake of punishing you. You're not supposed to learn anything you're not allowed any mistakes in a one v one. You either git really good or you split aggro.
If you have distance after a combo or any move with a big opening you can heal safely. I feel like it's the opposite of what this post as saying as many times bosses would only start attacking after my healing animations were finished like they were waiting for me lol.
Use the punish windows to heal. If youre getting bonked while trying to do a risky neutral heal, thats a skill issue.
The input reading isn't that bad for healing, it's more the crazy amount of target swapping the bosses do. They just refuse to even look at the summons in the DLC. It's to the point where I'm actually not even bothering with them because the damage they do usually doesn't offset the difficulty scaling from summoning anymore.
Crucible Knights are notorious for this.
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