Waitress questioned our low tip, is 15% post-tax low?

It’s fascinating how the restaurant industry conned consumers Into thinking it’s their responsibility to pay employees fair wages and over the course of that process, convinced employees that they are ENTITLED to tips from consumers.

This phenomenon is uniquely American; in as much as American capitalism is uniquely off kilter compared to the rest of the world. It’s astonishing that some people believe 20% is a BASELINE — just 5 - 10 years ago this was the starting point for exceptional service/experience.

Now, before I get flack for this, I used to work in the service industry for about 6 years. I never EXPECTED a certain baseline tip. Taking myself out of it, I was always aware that for some people, all they can afford is the meal and that being out as a family or with friends took significant savings just for them to be there. It didn’t change my approach to providing service to them because I CHOSE the profession.

Idk how we got here but it’s awful. I’d be much happier if the price per item reflected what’s necessary to pay employee fair wages. Yet the irony is that most waiters don’t want this because depending on where you work, you’re in on the racket.

I say 15% on pre tax balance is adequate for adequate service. Others will tell you 20% is the minimum required. To them, I say fuck that, it’s a gift, I’ll give what I feel is appropriate. That waitress had some balls on her to have the GALL to question you about the quantity of your GIFT. Shocking. Don’t let it bother you and just keep doing what you’re doing.

Welcome to tipping capital of the world where everyone expects a tip, 15% they should kiss your toes

I mean, you really lost me at “paid 200” out of convenience. Since 20% is standard for service. And she didn’t serve you out of convenience, so why should you under tip her just because it’s convenient to you? Service is transactional, so why should you short change a transaction at the end? That reads entitlement my friend.

Only time I tip 15% is on carry out. Is that too low?

Name and shame

It was a 16.98% tip pre-tax. Not a good tip but not insulting or abnormal. 🤷‍♀️

As someone in the industry you should tip no less than 15 percent , 18 to 20 percent is normal but she should not have come up to you guys thats being weird… its expected that sometimes you’ll get hooked up and sometimes you get less than expected but its a part of the job… it should balance out if not work somewhere else

At least 20%

Stand your ground. Decent service gets decent tip.

Never understood why a customer has to pay the same percentage when ordering a $70 plate over a $15 plate. Server is still taking in the order, bringing your dish out and then handing you the check. I pay 15% only. If I was questioned to give more I wouldn’t cave in. 

Yeah that's kinda low dude. That's a $35 tip at minimum. You paid the extra $10 though so its ok. That's why she came out to talk to you. To get the $10 you owe her. Alls well that ends well.

If they had done that to me I would have taken the entire tip back

Tip off the pre-tax amount, so your tip was almost 20% and fine

I’m confused.

I always tip post tax BUT as a rule, our machines at work calculate our tip percentages and tip outs based on pre-tax. I’ve been a server for 10 years.

So, if the bill pretax was $159 and you left $200, that was well over 20%.

Because usually servers do not have to tip out (aka give part of their tips to bartenders, support staff, etc) on tax - it solely goes off our food and liquor sales. So in my mind, you didn’t tip 15%. $200 on $159 is great.

America needs to provide livable wages. Period. Like everyone said, in this economy adding a 20% to what you are already paying for is ridiculous. Unfortunately, Americans think it’s normal. Well, Americans think many other crazy things are normal… Anyway, let them have cake… Guilt tripping customers on paying the employees is what brain-washing machines were made of. With all that said, I always pay 20%…

I usually just double the tax and add a few extra bucks to make it a whole number.

Unpopular opinion here.

Tack on whatever you need to pay your employees a proper wage etc etc to the menu price and let the customers decide if this is a restaurant that is right for them. Unspoken rules of tipping can be unpleasant for both employees and customers

A tip is a bonus for good service, not a requirement. That being said, I always start at 15% and go from there.

Average service? 15% Great service 20% Shit service 10%

Its not the customers responsibility to pay the wages of the establisments employees.

20% is standard in New York/Brooklyn

Slightly low but the server over reacted

Let's just round for this case, you tipped 18%. That's fine, don't let them bully you into paying more. 90% of places I've been in have 18%, 20%, 22% as the tipping standards. As long as you tip one of those amounts it's fine.

Awful tip

I think people don’t realize how tips are distributed. If you had 159$ worth of food and drinks, she pays out bar and help 8$ at best. So $19 an hour pre tax for an hour plus of work isn’t the best. That’s assuming you didn’t stay forever. I’ve said the same to shitty tips not to get them to pay more bc 9/10 tipping norms are based on class and SES. But I will say something with the hopes they just leave so I can recoup some money on the next table. I wouldn’t sweat it, comes with the job just don’t expect niceness after you didn’t pay for it basically.

20% has been the norm in NYC for over 30 years. It started in the 90's. 15% tipping is for foreigners, cheapskates and Mr. Pink.

It’s a low tip. That’s people livelihood, they prob worked hard for your table and was wondering what went wrong. I would have expected 30-40$.

The thing I don’t get is the people saying that they don’t get paid enough without tipping. Your employer is required by law to pay you up to minimum wage if your tips don’t equal out to at least minimum wage. Knowing that, you had better give good service to warrant a full 20% tip. It’s not a requirement to tip, it’s a societal norm.

Tipping isn’t mandatory.

15% pre-tax is what the standard “used to be” and I’m reverting back to that unless I truly have exceptional service. Prices have climbed across the board, meaning the percentage has too for dine-in service.

If someone calls you out for a poor tip, ask for their manager and leave a 1 star review calling them out by name. Those people should not be employed as waiters.

Who the hell tips 20%?

15% is standard, 18% is above and beyond. Hell I don't really even tip anymore at all....

I’ve lived in Brooklyn for 24 years and have always tipped 20%

Ah you got cucked and paid an extra $10. Next time take your tip back

I wouldn’t have addressed it with you, but I think 20% is standard. I’ve never tipped under 20% in at least the last five years tbh

As a former server, in this economy, anything less than 20% is low IMO. Because restaurants don’t pay wages, it’s not even about service so much as paying for their time. Rent is not cheap, people have student loans, etc. many of these servers are also uninsured or paying insurance out of pocket. Not saying it’s your problem to be concerned about but these are the things that might drive a server to be concerned about a tip that’s less than 18%.

If someone tipped me less than 18% I’d be wondering about what I did to offend them to tip so low.

That was not %15 percent. 26 would’ve been around 15

worked for years as a waiter. Would never have done that on a 15% tip. I'm gonna guess this was in the downtown area of Brooklyn?

I tip 20% but rarely eat out at full service restaurants because tipping is absolutely a ridiculous thing.

I would ask how long did you stay? That's a pretty low tab for four people at a sit down, if you hung out for several hours that server missed out on another table or two, so your kinda ass tip doesn't reflect what the earnings would likely be. If you were in and out in under an hour and a half that's a fine tip, servers can't win them all. If you stayed like 6pm till close you're a dick. Also 20% may suck but is absolutely the expectation if you enjoyed the service. Might suck for the layman but people pay it all the time so, it's the expectation

I worked in the industry while in college and beyond. 15% is my standard for expected service. When I get service beyond the expected I’ll go higher.

Ppl are expecting you to pay for their rent with a tip

Tip should be calculated pre tax, so it was 17.6%

That is technically a 17% tip as it should be calculated pre tax. That said I give 20% unless the service was atrocious

So sick of it. This has happened to me as well. A manager coming over to question 'what went wrong' for leaving 'just 15%.' 20% used to mean GREAT service, not just you did your job. 10% if some concerns, 15% you just did your job, 20% you exceeded expectations. 20% is the bare minimum expectation now for just showing up and bringing you the food without spitting in it. Screens now ask 20/25/30%? Ridiculous. Pay your employees. That's not my job.

Think minimum is 18% and I usually tip 20%.

I never tip less than 20%.

I’ve worked in a fine dining restaurant the last 5 years.

No you tipped fine, she shouldn’t make your dinner awkward either, who does she think she is. It’s literally a TIP, people have become so entitled these days.

You don't tip on tax. 15% post tax is a 17% tip which is reasonable. Not sure why you were questioned. Don't sweat it. Times are tough for everyone and as long as she was amicable that's ok too.

15% was fine about 10 years ago. Apparently, it’s 18% or higher now in most places, but the common percentage is 20%.

Hard to tell, maybe she was just genuinely curious and wanted to improve?

Regardless of your tip, you would not be an asshole, you are entitled to your opinion on service.

That being said, I work in the industry and times are hard for workers, people will hustle, and I love that about this city, particularly now that rents are high and food prices are crazy, so admire the hustle, tip or not, and move on.

IMO, there's a big difference between asking how the service was and asking if it was fine or not. 20% is the standard, esp in this town. however, if anyone on my team/staff actually approached a guest about their tip like that - they're working in the wrong world and they'd be admonished by me

professional bartender/rest mgmt

15% is fine

Rebel against tip bullying.

I'd like to have the option to self-serve and avoid tips altogether. I'll pick up the food from the kitchen, bring it to my table, get the utensils, napkins and refills

15% is still widely regarded as acceptable and your server shouldn’t have said anything about it, especially if it was 15% on the total bill and not the pre-tax figure. People saying 20% is the minimum for bad service now are straight up delusional.

I always tip 20%. I think I've counted on my hands the times I've tipped 15% for god awful service. Like the wait staff has to be completely rude or mean. I tip 20% if they mess up too, because the job is super stressful and mistakes happen. I'm only tipping less if they are intentionally making service worse and that rarely happens.

Service employees in nyc make 10-12.50 Hour + tips. 20% has always been standard. Most customers tip 22% -24% where I work in BK. sometimes tips isnt just money for the server, it’s split between the entire front of house

Reminds me of the scene from the sopranos when Christopher had to pay the tab 😭😂🤣 The waiter came out crying 😭😂😂

You're both wrong. She should not be making a guest feel self conscious. Thats a great way to kill repeat business. 15% is a bit squeaky. My personal tipping breakdown:

0% for blatant rudeness / laziness (that does not apply here).
18% for bad to mediocre (that does not apply here).
20% for standard/good service.
22% for above average service.

25%-30% for excellent service

35% if excellent and you're making $300K a year!

20 percent for the last 30 years… I couldn’t imagine leaving less… unless something went entirely wrong

I always tip 20% but I would be furious if I did 15% and got called out on it. Completely inappropriate.

Fuck all the noise. If you tip okay, you don’t need to stress out, such as posting this on Reddit. Extra points for waitress for being bold. Asking customers for an extra tip is super bold. Tips are arbitrary unless service fee is included

I pay 15% for average service, 10% for poor service, and 20% for exceptional service.

A tip is a gift. Questioning the tip is poor service.

Studies have shown that tipping makes everyone less happy, especially workers, who prefer to be paid predictably. In the US we managed to shift our culture away from negotiating all prices to using standard pricing, and this was progress. We can and should do the same to evolve past the unfair practice of tipping.

so a waitress asked you if service was good which is a very normal common thing to ask, and you know you tipped less than 20% and felt guilty about it so came here for validation?

you paid $200 "out of convenience" and literally no one else in your party had any cash?

First of all, it should be pre tax that you’re tipping on

Why did OP make this post in like 5 different subreddits with 1 - 2 hours.

I mean, you had another 100 $ bill, you should have gave 300$ and be on your way to tip the parking lot guy another 100$

20% tip is the standard/minimum. 18% if it’s bad service. Anything less than that, you shouldn’t be going out to eat. Get it as take out if you can’t afford to tip. Serving is a really really tough job, especially in NYC. Most servers live off their tips and get treated pretty poorly at work. You have to be “on” your whole shift while doing physical labor and trying to deal with management, coworkers and Karen customers. You never know if your server is having a tough day or not feeling well. Usually you don’t get any sick days or PTO as a server, or any other benefits. You don’t show up, you don’t get paid. Tipping is part of the dining experience. 20% or don’t go out

Not cool on the servers part. I have worked as a bartender/ server in NYC for twenty years…she is entitled and rude. I’m assuming her service was AVERAGE…at best.

If i ever had anyone question the amount of a tip, it would immediately go to $0. I only tip Waitstaff anyway. I am not tippling a cashier to ring up an order

That’s funny. She should look for new employment if she deems her compensation to be inadequate.

20% is standard.

But weird to get called out for 15% tip I think.

This is crazy that anyone says 15% at a restaurant was ever standard (in the 21st century I guess) - I can’t remember a time when less than 20% was acceptable. 15% is for notably bad service. The waitress here was a bit pushy, but you can’t tip 15% for good food and acceptable service in 2024 — you need to figure it into the cost of dining out. Cook for yourself otherwise.

It is a little light these days, but it hardly warrants being called out publicly for it.

I usually double the tax on fair service. If the service is exceptional I’ll triple it. But I hate bad service. There’s nothing worse than an overconfident snobbish server. They don’t write anything down, forget or get orders wrong. I’m not going to tip that person well.

Unless they write a law about it, 15% will always be my max tip.

I don't give a crap that businesses have collectively rolled out "standard" tip amounts of 20% on their touch screens. Nobody gave me the memo that, for no reason in particular, I'm supposed to spend even more of my hard earned money doing what restaurant owners are supposed to be doing (paying their workers). Yes, inflation sucks. Cost of living sucks. But I'm affected by that just as much as service workers. I too have less money in my pockets than I did 5 years ago, so there's no logic behind asking me, a fellow poor person, to supplement the shitty wages offered by the wealthy business owners. If you're asking for a magical 5% increase in wages, it needs to come from the top down.

And to anyone saying, "Well, don't go out to eat if you can't afford X tip amount", please take a moment and think about how ridiculous that sounds. If we all did that, then service workers would make even less money, and restaurants would start going out of business. Nobody wins in that situation, so stop acting all smug as if you said something intelligent.

So OP, the only thing you did wrong was caving into the demands of a random worker who you did tip sufficiently. The only thing you did wrong was allowing her to arbitrarily demand more of your hard earned money. If you're going to let her run your life, you might as well tip every Starbucks worker 18% when the option pops up on the screen.

Totally understand where you’re coming from in terms of convenience & you seem like a nice person but any of these comments saying less than 20% on table service is standard is just wrong, especially in nyc

Tipping shouldn’t be linear. $2 on a $10 tab is ok according to the rules but $27 on $159 is fine.

I always tip 18% post tax which is slightly less than 20% pre tax so your tip was low but not low enough that it warranted the waitress taking to you.

20 is the minimum

it was definitely 10% standard before COVID. then everybody increased it to 20% to show gratitude during the worst of times. now, it's the new standard because you can't be too nice, it'll be used against you.

10% is standard. And actually as a matter of fact, any tip at all should be seen as a courtesy. Any amount of money I’m giving you outside of what I’m legally required to pay is a tip and should be met with gratitude. After all, I’m not the one who is willingly working a job where the boss is allowed to pay less than minimum wage. Any complaints you have will not be reflected on by me

Decent-good service gets 20% always pretax. Anything less than decent service gets 15%

We’re a family of 5 (3 kids under 6) so anywhere we go we’re a fucking circus and if the server rolls with the mess the kids inevitably make, we go way over 20% while also doing our best to clean up after ourselves.

I’m so sick of this weird tipping dance ritual we do to subsidize the rich restaurant owners. Pay your fucking staff what they deserve so they stop looking at me for a hand out.

If you ordered a salad instead of a steak, it would require the same amount of effort on the waitress's behalf, however you'd be expected to tip more. It doesn't actually make sense. And the steak would have a higher profit margin which goes to the owner. .. Tipping culture is dumb

20% is pretty standard. Ive personally never tipped less than that. I also use to serve so I understand it can be a relentless job at times. Consider it part of the price of your meal. If you can’t afford to tip 20% then don’t go out to eat in NYC.