[Podcast P] Dallas: (co-host) “I had a conversation with a buddy…and he was asking me if I thought Luka was a top 10 NBA player…I would say he’s not just because of that defensively liability” “If you were building a team would you rather take Jrue Holiday or Luka, to win?”
We’ve seen how Jrue is when he’s a 2/3 option, man really thinks first option jrue could lead a team further than Luka lmao
Jrues past few years on the Bucks and Celtics really blinded some people from the majority of his career on the Sixers and Pelicans lol
Jrue as a 3rd option even on the Bucks was often a negative offensively too. A team built around him would be dire. Luxury 5th option though.
Jrue was an all star in Philly what do you mean?
And the team was garbage. He didn’t lead to wins there
Dude was 22 on his last season there and played with Spencer Hawes, Kwame Brown, Nick Young.
What 22 year old is carrying a team like you're implying?
You're hating pretty hard on him when he was really good in Philly.
I’m not hating at all. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous it is to pick jrue over Luka because people think he’s this magical “winning” player. He gets wins when he’s surrounded by multiple other all stars. Luka is way better
So you're down playing how good Jrue was in Philly cause some dudes on the internet say they rather have him than Luka?
Thats pretty weird yo.
It’s not downplaying lol. I’m just pointing out facts. Those Philly teams he was on didn’t win. That doesn’t mean he’s bad. It just means he’s not this magical force that drives winning
He was 47-35 in his all star year in Philly.
You say you're not hating and you're not down playing, but your comments are saying different.
Embiid hasn't led them past the 2nd Round despite being a 1st Team All NBA guy and a MVP.
Sixers are just allergic to success. It ain't just the players, it's the team as a whole.
The point is Jrue isn’t the leading force of these winning teams he’s on. To think he should be chosen over Luka on a team to win like the thread title suggests is wild
Also, he isn’t gonna be defending at the level he currently does if he has to be a first option. That is one thing people don’t account for - players don’t have unlimited stamina, Jrue can defend at a high level while being a primary ball handler, but you can only take that so far. Players that are the first option for their team generally sacrifice on defense some.
This, 100%. On the Celtics he can let White handle the ball a ton too, and usually once it gets past mid-court either Tatum or Brown gets the ball and initiates the offense off of a pick and roll or running off-ball motions. Jrue's usage rate has plummeted this year and you can tell by how fresh he still is comparatively at end of games.
this mfer really said he taking jrue to build a team around over Luka 😭
How the hell do some of these guys get on podcasts with all stars with such little knowledge of the game.
I guess it gets attention, we are talking about it here.
Yeah, there needs to be a delineation between guys who are the offensive engines of your team and guys who are extremely impactful 3rd/4th/5th options.
Similar thing on a smaller scale is the Bulls.
You can't build around Alex Caruso as opposed to DeMar DeRozan, but every single contender in the NBA would rather have Caruso than DeRozan because he scales much better to a great team.
It's because people say role player and think it's an insult.
There's only a handful of elite roleplayers. There's only a handful of elite secondary scorers. And there's only a handful of elite playmaking scorers.
There's a reason the Bucks traded him
Obviously they wanted him to have another Championship.
Jrue was an excellent offensive 4th (?) option on the Celtics this season.
That being said it’s comical to think that Dallas would be better by replacing Luka with him. They aren’t even close to making the NBA finals in that scenario
They dont even make the playoffs in that scenario lol. They would have had to survive through a December lineup of Jrue Holiday, Dante Exum, Josh Green, Grant Williams, and Dwight Powell.
The issue has always been to build around his style of play including lack of decent defense. They were lucky to get Kyrie but that really didn’t help defensively but unfortunately he has been exposed which could motivate Luka into peak conditioning but as the world has seen winning a title will involve more than great scoring.
Idk they just made the finals beating multiple really good teams. Dallas’ defense was good ever since the trade deadline and remained good in the playoffs
Luka individually struggled in the finals but the Mavs were even worse offensively. Sure he has to get better but I didn’t view it as some disaster moment he can’t recover from
Seems like people forget all season no defense is played. No incentive to get hurt or tired before the playoffs. Dallas was much better at the trade deadline offensively. The defense just came along as it naturally does as new players find their roles. Luka is the engine and sets the tone but in the playoffs it is all about stops. This has always been the case and Dallas knew it was coming and if Jason Kidd, a defensive specialist, doesn’t have answers that should tell you everything you need to know.
Problem is not Luka, it is building around his style of play. Is it possible? Of course but they still must find offensive players that want to play his style. Lebron had the same problem because he is ball dominant also and he obviously found success. Luka needs help.
So what happened in the playoffs when we played good defense against good teams. Defense isn't why we lost in the finals we held them to 107 and under in every game, we lost bc nobody could hit a goddamn shot
For 4 games? No shot making? That series wasn’t close and people who understand the game realize it. Idiots like yourself hate hearing the truth. Dallas was not nearly good enough. They should have been swept but the NBA wanted another game because it was so lopsided. Luka needs help. The game is more than alley oops.
Yes for 4 games, look at the scores. We held them to under 107 in every game our offense relies on the lob threat opening up our "3 pt shooters" They covered that and our guys could not buy a basket other than Luka on a bum leg and even he wasn't great. Yeah the refs caused the celtics to get blown out by 40 thats why it was extended and not the celtics got lax knowing they had it in the bag...Our defense had been great since the trade deadline you're just an idiot who reads headlines
You are obviously young and definitely dumb. Seriously, learn the game. Your great defense couldn’t make a stop when it mattered. It doesn’t matter what you held the Celtics to if they are out scoring you dummy. Seriously, learn the game.
I love how you can only respond in insults and vague platitudes like
"It doesn't matter what you held the Celtics to if they are out scoring you dummy"
Lmao no shit sherlock you just discovered how basketball works! We got a fucking genius over here!
Don’t be so sensitive. The truth hurts sometimes. Crying about numbers when your team can’t stop the bleeding? Fans of Texan teams are used to losing, but soft too?
Jrue over Luka.
This is the type of shit that shouldn't be covered by the 1st amendment.
This arguably is already covered by the fighting words exception to free speech
Dumb lol
co-host dumb. PG's answer was pretty smart.
PG did a great job of saying it was dumb without saying anything bad about Jrue or outright calling out his co-host
These podcasts with the player's groupies are so much better when the groupies know when to keep their mouths shut. Like I wanna hear PG speak, not his dumbass unqualified friend.
But he had a conversation with a buddy. Just like on r/new when someone needs to settle an argument with their friend
PG’s answer was couched significantly. Luka has to do better. And he is on the clock, physically. Picture the top 50 players ever and think about the defensive effort of each one and Luka is still at the bottom. That should be motivation enough. He can do it, just takes work.
I'm dumb
PG didn't say this
I'm dumb and can't read - just edited
Oh, this guy's top 10 list must be comical.
1) Jrue 2) KCP 3) Wiggins 4) Jrue again 5) Kuzma
We are approaching levels of stupidity that surprise me and I have been on this subreddit for 12 years.
If the explosion of social media has taught us anything, it’s that u shouldn’t be surprised at how stupid people are
Literally every proceding year: We bout to take it to the next level
The same thing happened with prime Harden. People start acting like a player’s value is equal to the number of above-average aspects they have to their game.
As if someone very good on offense and defense is better than someone generationally good on offense and mediocre on defense because 2 skills is better than 1. Like no, Klay was not better than Harden.
is it a requirement for these basketball podcasts for their non-player hosts to be absolute dumbasses lol
PG tried his absolute hardest not to laugh and call his friend an idiot. But he knew this take was completely ridiculous and stupid. Even PG said yeah, it’s easier to play defense when you’re not asked to do anything on offense.
Which is why I rate AD so much dude plays with 3 guys that are negatives on defense and then is asked to be either the first or second option on offense
Exactly. AD gets a lot of hate but he’s still one of the best two way players in the league. He needs a good PG to unlock him and always has, but when you build a team that can actually take advantage of his strengths he’s amazing. The problem is he’s only had that for two seasons in his entire career
It’s A lot easier for a big man. Hes talked & longer than everyone & his offensive game isn’t predicated on having to bring the ball up the court & dribble around a lot.
Stick to selling insurance dumbass
PG surrounds himself with idiots
Who would've thought?
Luka is top 4 minimum
I hate this part of the nba cycle where the losing finals team is suddenly overrated and terrible
Luka is a top 3-4 at minimum and that depends if you take Embiid over him which most might cause of playoffs.
Edit: meant take Luka over Embiid not the other way around
Hell no who is taking embiid over luka in the postseason??
Luka would’ve won that series vs the Knicks
I meant that backwards lol
Luka got pretty carried in round 1
Get used to it because you're about to hear some of the worst Luka takes you'll ever hear in your life for the next year
The monkey that was on Jayson Tatum's back left and jumped on Luka Doncic on the plane ride home.
That's just Payton Pritchard. Don't mind him.
Tatum It Follows'ed Luka
Losing in the finals is worse for legacy than goong 20-62
I hate this part of the nba cycle where the losing finals team is suddenly overrated and terrible
We are familiar with this slander.
Luka's defensive issues keep him out of first, not outside the top 10 lmao
No. accolades are
You dont want center that cant rim protect to save their life
But turn out that guy are greatest offensive center of all time
If he were more consistent and could give more effort on defense/had better offensive teammates that could lighten his usage rate, he'd win MVPs no question, which would then strengthen his case to be #1
could give more effort on defense
The guy in denver also cant
better offensive teammates that could lighten his usage rate
The guy in denver have. When his teammates cant help? He crumbled. 20pts in game 7 at home, that's death sentence if that guy didnt have MVP and ring
Its just accolades. Yeah im bias but his accolades also has some questionable things (no 50 win, MVP as 6th seed, statistically not the best in 2nd MVP but seeding got him)
You can be superstar but if team construction is not there, you have arguably less chance to be #1
Like, brace yourself, Luka will have BIG CHANCE he wont get MVP in his life. And later we will view that roster matters
EDIT : and health/injury thing. league is that talented now, even a game in detroit will be dogfight if your #3 option injured
jokic was pretty good defensively during their championship. Looked to me like he took a step back this year.
first, i dont believe "defense win you championship" no more. league is lean on offense more (especially 3pt, which like your team. you knew it already), but doesnt mean we dont need defense. at least you have to defend at sligthly middle of the pack. like for example : give me #3 offense + #10 defense than the reverse
and like nugs, even im not watching much of them, it's easy to guess the problem is...yup buckets, esp 3s. it's easier to defend when you can score easy bucket after easy bucket, like nugs last year. jok is always that guy on defense, it's all about scoring
after you comment, i already peek nugs starter 5 stats in 3pt% (playoffs only)
39.5% last year to 34,3% this year. that's MASSIVE drop for 2nd best starter unit in the league
Accolades are. Jokic is a worse defender and is still considered the best player.
Jokic is definitely a better defender than Luka
They keep him out of top 3 in my opinion. Defence is 50% of the game. Offence is easier to spot as a casual watcher which is why it takes higher precedence, but when you’re a defensive liability it hurts your team a lot on the other side, as the opponent game plans around the weak link.
I mean they got to the Finals, so not sure it's as easily taken advantage of as you think. If the Clippers, Thunder, and Wolves couldn't take advantage of his lack of defense, not sure how big of a liability it is because what other playoff team in the West would be able to do so?
This is how I imagine conversations go in the Wizards FO
Nah Nets.
This is first option Mikal logic.
More bait from you man, stop it
I don't think Luka's the best player in the league until he improves stamina and defence... But come on, a non top-10 player led that Dallas team to the finals with bloody knees? Which wings or guards could you have replaced Luka with on a team with Dallas' talent level and had them get to the Finals. Boston was stacked, they were expected to win. If peak Lebron had this Dallas team, Dallas might've topped Boston, so Luka's not at that level, but he's top 10 right now.
Luka is unquestionably top 4 at least
We’ve seen LeBron at near peak with a similarly talented/constructed team go against a Warriors team that realistically had more defensive (Curry, ZaZa,West) and offensive (Draymond, ZaZa, Livingston, Iggy) attack points than the Celtics this year. He got demolished.
How dare luka not be as good as fucking peak lebron
I’m not even saying Luka is or isn’t as good as peak LeBron. I was just saying using this series as proof LeBron was better is kind of ridiculous. They both had teams built like this get destroyed by “superteams”. LeBron wouldn’t have won this Finals either.
According to this idiot we could’ve replaced with Jrue Holiday and done better
This guy huffing glue. Luka just took the Mavs to the finals. This is the worst take I’ve ever heard.
The craziest part about this is that Luka only had one bad defensive game. The Celtics didn't win the series by exploiting Luka on defense, they won because they were able shut down the Mavs offense.
Yea, narratives are funny because the Celtics offense statically wasn’t amazing in the finals. They just completely shut down the Mavs
Not to say Luka wasn’t bad defensively in the finals, but the wolves had a higher ORTG in the WCF than the Celtics but the only thing people are saying is “why didn’t they attack Luka”
I'm honestly not a fan of attacking a single player, even if they are a bad defender. It takes the team out of their rythm more often than not, and for some reason it just doesn't lead to an efficient offense. I have no idea why this is the case, but I've seen it happen countless times.
I think it’s fine to criticize players, especially superstars when they don’t play up to standard. My problem is the takes always go too far and turn into “he’s not a winner” or dumb shit like this where apparently they’re not even good anymore
There is never any balance.Yeah, Luka complains too much about officiating, but to imply that he isn't in shape because he got tired at the end of a game where not only did he have his usual Herculean responsibilities offensively, but he was tasked with guarding every single possession defensively. There isn't a player in the league who wouldn't have been tired in that position.
The way the celtics attacked is fine tho. They both attacked him off the dribble and off ball. The guy who luka guards is always looking to cut/ get open.
I get your point tho. But as lebron said, if it’s working, you just kinda repeat it until they stop it
Luka only had one bad defensive game
Wild take.
Luka was pretty bad defensively the whole series lol but that’s not why they lost
Where's the proof? Who had a big game because of Luka? When did the Celtics have an efficient offensive game as a team?
Meat riders are something else
The proof is watching the series, you even got Mavs fans telling you this lol.
Bad defense doesn’t mean whoever you’re guarding is gonna go off, that’s just a shitty way of looking if it’s a good defensive game or not lmao.
The Mavs fan said that he had bad performances which I agree, offensively he was sub par based on his usual standards. There isn't a correlation between fandom and being right, however. Him being a Mavs fan is irrelevant. He could have been swept up by the narrative just like everyone else. So Luka played poorly,but for some reason there is no quantitative measure that would back that opinion and assuming that there would be proof is a shitty way of looking at defense.
You’re saying a whole lot of nothing lol
Luka was bad defensively the whole series, he’s not a good defensive player.
And you're making a statement over and over again that you can't or haven't been able to prove true with anything beyond your personal opinion.
Did we watch the same series? I agree with you in that Luka's defense isn't why the Celtics won, we just got outclassed, but Luka was bad in 4/5 games. Or maybe I'm just seeing it through a biased viewpoint.
He had that one really bad defensive performance where Windy and everyone tore him apart in the media, but that was his only bad defensive performance of the series imo. He moved laterally to contain the ball and forced the Celtics to score off tough contested shots. Neither of the Jays scored very efficiently in this series, despite the fact that they took turns hunting the Luka matchup.
I don't think Luka had any impact on the Jays shooting poorly this series. I may be wrong but his defense seemed sub par all 4 losses.
So these all NBA players just happened to perform badly. It was just random that they shot poorly. No maybe to it, guys don't just have a bad shooting performances over the course of an entire series without the defense disrupting them.
There's more to Dallas defense than Luka. Tatum also shot poorly all playoffs. He missed a lot of shots he should normally make. I could be wrong but I remember Luka looking like a turnstile every game and the other Dallas defender collapsing on Tatum.
Is this what happens when people like you? Because he was bad pretty much all series to the extent that him making the proper rotation like three times in one game got him a highlight montage from the media.
One?
One? He made Trae Young look good in 1-3. In 4-5 he actually put in some effort but was still more bad than good.
Surely there's a quantitative statistic that would reflect just how poorly he played defensively.
t Luka only had one bad defensive game
Bro what
fun to hear the delusional people come out of the woodwork
people need to understand that Jrue is great if you don't need him to be a 2nd, 3rd option, and most teams can't afford to pay someone that much and NOT have them be a at least a 3rd option.
this guy is braindead
Always said this podcast is unlistenable with his cohosts. PG is great (although his response to this question was less than ideal) but his cohosts are atrocious. I’d actually listen to this podcast if it wasn’t for his cohosts
although his response to this question was less than ideal
In what way. He said he'd pick Luka and that he knows how exhausting it is to play both ends, he doesn't need Luka to be a lockdown defender, just to take more pride on that end.
He made the answer about himself
No he didn't. He was using his experience to empathize with how hard it is for Luka to give maximum effort on both ends. He even says "I'm not saying me to talk about me but just to put it in perspective".
Yeah I say the same thing too to deflect what I’m really saying. It was pretty obvious he was talking about himself and what he does on the floor the whole time. Like I said I love PG and his analysis is usually great but it was obvious what he was doing here don’t be sensitive I usually defend PG against everyone
I say the same thing too to deflect what I’m really saying
That sounds like a you problem and not a PG problem.
off szn bby
Luka is top 10. With that being said, why do people care so much about ranking players? Appreciate the great players we have without ranking them
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Cue the song from the South Park Mormon episode … dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
This is what happens when you lose in the nba finals. You’ll be treated like trash even when you’re a young player. Happened to Tatum 2 years ago now Doncic to a much lesser extent is gonna get criticized even though it should be seen as an achievement getting this far for the first time
PG picked Luka, said he was the bigger talent, also said Luka can be a good defender but he has to put in more effort, and he gave a thoughtful answer conceding that it's hard to give max effort on both ends all the time.
Paul George's co-host continue to be a clown.
Jrue aint going to fuck you dude.
Its times like these that remind me that there are dumber nba fans than the ones on r/nba
I had to rewind to confirm if this dumbass take was real
Him and his buddy should harm themselves. For the greater good.
You can't be serious
what a dumb take
People really have lost their goddamn mind huh
It’s crazy to me how nobody takes the injuries this post season into account when discussing this. He’s not the most mobile player in the league defensively, in fact toward the bottom. His defense is largely predicated on strength, size, and understanding of the game. He had a bad knee and ankle injury, hindering his mobility. Also had a chest injury. Pretty clearly getting injections in at least his chest and knee. He was not even close to his effort level when healthy. Not trying to say he’s the best defender when healthy, not by any means, but teams went after the slowed down player like they should have.
Luka is not a good defender… injuries are a part of the game right?
Who’s saying they aren’t a apart of the game? I’m saying that it had a negative affect on his ability to play both sides.
Him not being a good defender didn’t start with the playoffs this year… he has been out of shape and is overweight, Luka fans should acknowledge these points and stop making excuses, he needs to put in the work, too much weight could be causing injuries
Him being a bad defender is way way overblown. I’ve been to damn near every home game of his career. Injuries affected him far more than many understand this year. I’ll never argue he’s a good defender but he was no worse than average when healthy this year.
So now Jrue is better than both Dame and Luka…
Big market media really helps a player out
Media gonna have people going all out against Jrue next season lol
Why do some people have access to microphones?
What an idiot.
Paul George is 100% right on the other end though.
Glad his response was a little reasonable but the blow by stat is so stupid to reference because Dallas' strategy was literally to funnel guys to Gafford and Lively at the rim the 1st 3 rounds of the playoffs. Boston just had soo many guys who could dribble and create that it wasn't going to work.
If the Mavs strategy was to allow players to drive into the lane, why play perimeter defense at all…?
That buddy he had a conversation with? Himself
Yea you can leave him in LA Paul
Bro. Do we have clips of this guy talking after jrue couldn’t do much as the #2 guy?
What a miserable episode of podcast P this was
This the same dumb cohost that said Lonzo wasn’t talented cause he can’t stay healthy. I swear the cohosts on these podcasts are some of the dumbest casual fans, who have no place being on a podcast with actual NBA players.
bro was just in the finals, he should be #3 under tatum and brown if we're going with some recency bias (obiviously i dont believe tatum and brown are #1 and 2) i'd put luka at like 3-4 still though, bro was getting like 50 point triple doubles a night at the beginning of the season
Triple doubles… he don’t play defense
The co-host is a “shock jock” truly bullshit take just for clickbait 🤦🏾♂️
It’s like saying I’d rather have Pat bev than Steph curry because of his defense
P needs better co hosts.Dudes are corny AF.
The off-season, man.... 😂 😂 😂
That smug look as if he’s saying something lmao, you’d be flipping burgers if Paul George wasn’t your friend
Dallas is good friends with Jrue. Guy is the ultimate jrue fan, stupid take
Man…some of these players dont get it
Dumb people start wearing glasses and think they’re brilliant lmao
Braindead take.
What?
Luka no doubt is he better player to build around. With that being said, I would really like to see what Luka could be if he took his conditioning seriously and got into pro basketball shape where he had the energy to play on the defensive end. I think if he did this, he could throw his hat into top 5 all time down the road. Guy has elite skills but just doesn’t ever seem to be in elite shape ever in his career.
I wish PG stopped this guy at the start and called him an idiot.
He let him talk far too much nonsense he was obviously disagreeing with him
Ay yay yay. People are so dumb.
Agree with PG 1000%..Luka needs to get his ass in shape and stay in shape. Not gain weight during the season. Such a waste of talent.
the co-host ruin Paul’s podcast imo
This was crazy.
Not gonna lie: way before the recent series, I’ve always personally been critical of Luka (and all players who don’t play defense). With that context of my opinion on him taken into account, I can still confirm that this take is beyond wild.
Luka is a top 5 player. A generational talent with a glaring weakness no different than Giannis.
I don't take issue with people saying Luka is the best player NBA.
But he's not a good defender... I don't care what a random advanced metric you can't explain says. And if he is better than the other guys it's definitely not "by far" which was a common take the last couple of months.
Op what is your opinion on this ?
This guy is bald and was never a professional athlete that alone invalidates his opinion.
You don’t need to be a ‘professional’ athlete to play and know ball 😂 people are allowed to have their opinions no matter how much you disagree. The cohost’s buddy top 10 are two way players so Luka didn’t make the cut. Big deal. Top 10 in the NBA currently, we know Luka is on that list.
Cool he is still a moron, he's just ugly and bald too, happy?
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Xenophobia can be a hell of a thing.
Lol the angst in these comments for the dude who wasn’t buying Luka are hilarious… you all love you some Luka, and nothing that guy said was wrong… he don’t play defense and there have been plenty gifted offensive players that didn’t win a championship. Luka had a great deal of work to do before you can anoint him the greatest of all time… lol
Oh we playing defense today? Cool.
Bruh if that's the motivation a non-superstar player sweating contracts every couple years needs then get him off my fucking team. If you don't take pride in your craft enough to put in the effort for your own sanity then you're a fucking loser
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adding Jrue Holiday to a stacked team and building a team around Jrue Holiday are NOT the same thing