I used to dream of startup life..

I used to dream of startup life. I would watch documentaries, fantasize about unicorn valuations, listen to TWIST daily, learn everything I possibly could about VC and product development.

I’ve been working at a startup now for 2 years and some change and I can tell you, I was naive. Funny thing they don’t tell you about equity, it gets diluted every funding round that new shares are issued. Oh and also startup valuations are made up. They have no basis in reality and are merely a guess, and a very optimistic one at that. Also, it doesn’t matter if your technology is the best, the most innovative, scientifically proven solution on the market, if you don’t have revenue. And even if you manage to be part of a startup with decent ARR, your burn rate will probably be higher, because your company is spending somebody else’s money, so you won’t be profitable for a while.

The holy grail of acquisition keeps you going for a while, until of course a competitor with a worse technology gets acquired for scraps. And that 0.5% you own, actually 0.33% since you’ve been diluted, seems farther and farther away. And even if you are acquired, you may have made more money just taking a higher salary somewhere else, considering how long the acquisition took.

I’ve come full circle on this many times, something boosts morale back up, renewed sense of hope and pride, and again and again the burnout intensifies, the problems recur to the point you’re wondering if you’ll ever get your processes right. It doesn’t even become about the tech it turns into interpersonal problems, how teams communicate, decline in culture with risky new hires, and the soul diminishing feeling of scale, which was ironically the goal the whole time.

The benefit I can see from it is that I’ve been so exposed, and worn so many hats that I have a lot of experience for being so early in my career. And maybe I’m just at the wrong startup (most startups are the wrong startup), but I plan on only ever going after salary in my next roles. Equity and options of course are nice but only if the company is already proven, otherwise it is no different than gambling.

The market is tough right now, so switching jobs is going to be tough. I just can’t take the constant grind anymore, with no upside. There is no room to move up, little to no mentorship being one of the first engineers on the team. Also new hires have brought the culture way down, and the company is starting to do things I hate about corporations, like pizza party-esque type shit.

I was also promised opportunity for bonuses from the start, and have brought it up multiple times, and each time have been told they are working on a program, but they just don’t know how to measure productivity, or that they can’t come up with a way to implement bonuses. I was “promoted” to senior and offered a $2500 raise, I pushed back hard and ended up with a 13K raise, bringing me to 120k. I don’t even know if I would be considered senior somewhere else, it seems like just a way to keep me happy for a while longer.

The CEO is feature hungry, creates unbelievably complex systems doomed to be a buggy mess, constantly changing the app around beyond recognition, meanwhile revenue is stagnant. The solution is always a total redesign, the product team has no sense of collecting feedback merely asking customers “hey do you want this?” Even asking customers where in the app they would like to see said feature.

This is my non-glamorous view into the startup world. I’m burnt out, exhausted, and couldn’t possibly give a shit less about what I used to be fired up every day to do.

But I have an interview today, so maybe there’s hope.

TLDR: I hate my job and want a new one

in cscareerquestionsby TurintheDragonhelm

452

96%

BarfHurricane

291

I’ve worked at 4 startups in my long career. I only walked away with equity money from one and after taxes it was $30 grand. Not chump change, but if I did the math on all the years I worked at startups busting my ass I only came out with $3 grand extra per year.

Totally not worth it. Startups are a scam for the worker.

otherbranch-official

Recruiter

"Equity is usually not worth anything" is not the same thing as "startups are a scam".

Most startups fail. Most that do not fail do not become massive successes. In both those cases, employee equity is usually not worth much (because no one's is in the former case, and because investors usually have preferred shares in the latter). But that doesn't mean even equity, taken alone, is a scam - it means equity is a low-probability, high-payout bet.

You shouldn't count on it, and by nature most people do not end up getting rich, but it does represent a meaningful chance of a large payout. A friend of mine, for example, just got a payout well into the millions from his equity in a previous company - but it was his sixth and the first five and seventh weren't worth a dime.

BarfHurricane

Nah I don’t think equity in itself is a scam at all. In fact I have worked at non startups and got equity and it turned out somewhat ok. I got a few bucks out of it but nothing major with no crazy startup grind.

But busting your balls day in and day out on a smallllll chance it could pay off at a startup? Yeah I can say from experience that’s scam territory.

otherbranch-official

Recruiter

I agree with that, certainly.

There's a kind of borderline-culty devotion a lot of startups expect. And there is a reason for that - startups have a LOT of ups and downs, and you want people not to bail when things get bad. Loss of faith can be crippling, and employees are looking for their next best step too, so showing weakness often causes you to hemorrhage your best people.

It's dishonest, but it's effective, because people do tend to assume confidence is at least partially earned. (Sometimes it's not even dishonest, a lot of founders get high on their own supply on this issue in particular.) As a founder who is quite deliberately not trying to cultivate that kind of culture, I worry that not doing so is a potentially-fatal mistake.

ccricers

I never even thought much about equity or exit strategies etc. when I've decided worked at a startup. My original intent was to work at a small company to avoid the pressures of working at a large one. It doesn't always work out that way either.

otherbranch-official

Recruiter

Not everyone does, but a lot of people do. I've got a big pile of what candidates tell me they want in a company, and that's high on the list for maybe one in four, one in five - enough to matter.

mwraaaaaah

A gamble is not the same thing as a scam. My first job was at a startup, I only stayed for two years but the equity I paid $900 for when I left is now worth 600k (they allow selling on secondary markets and also hold tenders now and then).

A scam implies deceit. This is just a gamble.

MathmoKiwi

"Equity is usually not worth anything" is not the same thing as "startups are a scam".

Lotto tickets are usually not worth anything, and lotto is a scam.

Same principle here, if the "equity" you get on average is less than the effort you put into it, then yeah, it's kinda a scam.

otherbranch-official

Recruiter

"Scam" implies knowledge, malice, and active deception and I don't think any of those applies here. A bad investment need not be a scam, and I'm not even sure it is a bad investment - you just don't want to value options equivalently to salary.

[not investment or financial advice etc etc, private opinion]

IdoCSstuff

Senior Software Engineer

A friend of mine, for example, just got a payout well into the millions from his equity in a previous company - but it was his sixth and the first five and seventh weren't worth a dime.

For every one person that has a successful exit as a non investor, PE/VC or cofounding member, there are many more that end up getting nothing. Startups are only worth it if you're getting paid a decent enough amount of cash to go with the equity.

otherbranch-official

Recruiter

I'm objecting specifically to the framing of startups as a "scam" because of the uncertain value of equity, not to the idea that equity is usually not worth anything or that it's not wise to depend on its value.

IdoCSstuff

Senior Software Engineer

If there's anything "scammy" about startups, it's that the founders often promote a cult-like culture where a good percentage of employees are brainwashed and think the company provides a unique environment that offsets all the negatives to being there (bad WLB/compensation/treatment).

They also exaggerate how well the company is doing or its future potential and are often not transparent with the direction of the company. I remember once in the 6 months prior to an acquisition in a startup I was at, there were people being let go left and right and there was this strange sense of dread and doom written on the walls. It wasn't until after the merger was announced that the horrible conditions made sense. The rest of the time there was just as bad.

In another acquisition I experienced, the leadership there was also quiet, but the 6 months before and after the company were actually some of the best times of my career. The cofounders gave huge bonuses, gave lots of travel, food, parties, etc to everyone.

A lot of startups where the culture and pay is good exist, but those tend to be selective and are not what a lot of people are talking about. One very good place I've experienced pays well, rewards high performers, helps upskill its people, is very transparent, and the owner despite having a lot of opportunity to sell the company throughout the years has never budged.

Meanwhile (as I mentioned before in another comment) I know people who have earned the lifetime income of the average American ($42k over 40 years) in just 5 years working at big tech right out of college. I can only extrapolate what they will have made in 10 and what most others I know who have been in big tech during the big boom in the 2010s, but I know people worth 8 digits if they climbed the ladder.

StrayMurican

I went 2/3.

1: making $60k/year, laid off in 3 months due to funding

2: making $100k/year, acquired after 1.5 years, stock worth $125k/year, but stacked with new grant. Bringing TC to $300k before stock gains and eventually $500k. That’s mostly due to acquiring company

3: making $190k as senior. IPO after 3 years. Netted roughly $400k/year in TC including a few promotions.

If I ever join a startup again it will be because I’m ready to wear multiple hats. It will never be about the money. In #3 our pre-IPO valuation convinced me I was going to make $1M-$1.2M/year… well that didn’t happen.

Eridrus

People make a huge mistake treating "startups" as a class. Startups have a wide range of outcomes, so you need to think more like an investor and try to pick those that will be a rocket ship and leave those that are failing.

I recommend this blog post on how to think about startup options: https://www.benkuhn.net/optopt/

And it is certainly possible to pick startups. YC does. They generate a 176% annual return!

NoFamilyDoc

What is your opinion on solopreneurship?

BarfHurricane

It depends on what you are doing in what sector. If it’s something like freelancing for yourself, I personally wouldn’t do it. The cost of labor has plummeted as tech workers from low COL regions across the world have dominated freelance work.

mlYuna

I know this is mostly a US sub but in Europe it's not the case.

I know quite a few people working for (big) companies as freelancers and earning a lot more in the long run than a full time job would. Really depends on what you do but since salaries are a lot lower here it's often a good option from what I've gathered.

NoFamilyDoc

-2

what about indie ios development

ironichaos

On the private equity subreddit they had a discussion about startup valuations. Apparently when one is sold for X billion that frequently includes a ton of debt so the founder can say they had a X billion exit. In reality the analyst said unless you are one of the founders or maybe first ten employees you will be lucky to see much of anything after preferred shares are all paid out.

It was interesting to read about and really made me not want to do a startup again even though I enjoyed the one I worked at a lot.

TurintheDragonhelm

That checks out. The more I learn about private equity and VC the more I realize it mostly benefits VC’s and founders, but really mostly VC’s, which of course makes sense, they take on significant risk. I was one of the first 10 employees, but our potential exits are low enough that I could make just as much money in a stable established company. I guess I was really just starry eyed, and now I’m jaded lol.

Sad_Organization_674

I worked for a boring sort of stable company. Salary was so so, but profit sharing and benefits were quite amazing if you stayed for a while. You don’t need to be at meta or Google to make decent money at a company. Just find a decent place that rewards you long runs

IdoCSstuff

Senior Software Engineer

It mostly benefits VC’s and founders, but really mostly VC’s, which of course makes sense, they take on significant risk

VC's have the highest reward to risk ratio. They're gambling with ultra rich people's money who don't understand anything about what they're investing in and always get paid first whether the company is a loser or a winner.
Founders come next in priority. In theory you might be right that they take on the most risk, but the reality is that the vast majority of people who are able to become a startup founder are actually very privileged.

There's a myth of the very talented genius who made a multi million/billion dollar startup with nothing but their own blood sweat and tears (Musk, Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg). The reality is the vast majority of those people, including all of the famous examples (most 30 under 30 too) are actually from ultra wealthy/upper middle class families who had many advantages that most people will never have.

I've worked for a bunch of startups and know many other startup founders. 100% of them had lucky breaks that explain the vast majority of their success.

The biggest risk they take is that they don't become ultra rich from their startup and have to get a job and be an employee like the rest of us.

sherazod

I participated in a liquidity event as one of the founding engineers. Although it was a life-changing amount of money, I calculated I would have been better off working in a better-compensated role in a larger company. This was due to the lower base pay in my comp. I would suggest to all those who are considering start-ups to basically greatly undervalue the equity and ask for as much base pay as possible.

Start-up equity is basically a lottery ticket.

garnett8

Software Engineer

I’ve heard a good rule of thumb is value the equity at 1/3 gross value. Does that sound right?

LiferRs

Fascinating! Very similar to varying levels of debt and their credit ratings. In a bankruptcy, there’s an order of debt that gets paid out first. Seems like there’s a pecking order in VC too.

No_Damage_8927

Yea, employees get options for common shares. Investors get preferred. One of the benefits is priority during liquidation.

hellomybudhasoda

Oooh could you repost? Would love to have a read!

ironichaos

https://www.reddit.com/r/HENRYfinance/s/5O6SdBefBR

I was mistaken it wasn’t on a private equity subreddit but here is the thread.

hellomybudhasoda

Legend, thank you!

saltundvinegar

104

People strive to work at startups? Mine is a total shitshow and I'm just trying to weather out this economy and switch to something more stable.

toosemakesthings

Well, I think everyone knows startup work environments to be risky (higher likelihood of toxic culture, low pay, long hours). OP seems disillusioned with the "get equity early and get rich" part.

TurintheDragonhelm

Yeah I was super naive and a big dreamer (still am to a fault). I don’t regret it, but I certainly have learned some lessons.

fakehalo

Software Engineer

My ideal company was always the medium-sized company with moderate growth. Not so big I'm an expendable cog, but not to small where my salary is weak and/or I have to fear of downsizing. Places I can get my get my tentacles into.

Antique_Pin5266

Yeah big tech people who want to flex their brains and get offered bigger bucks to spearhead some idea

Pariell

Software Engineer

The advice I hear from people who went the start up route, is you should only do a startup if that is intrinsically worth it to you, and the equity & potential windfall should be considered a nice perk, not your major motivation for the role. That is to say, you should only do a start up if you would be willing to do this job even if your equity ends up being worthless. Because if you make the potential windfall your major motivation, you are going to be severely disappointed. In practical terms this means a good start up team will usually be just a few founders who are really excited about the project.

TurintheDragonhelm

Yeah I’m money motivated I won’t deny it. I even told my employer that when I first started.

react_dev

128

Software Engineer

I didn’t read everything but wanted to flag that your equity in % will sure be diluted. But your equity in dollar amount will be increased with each funding. You simply can’t prevent dilution.

Good on you for getting an offer that better reflects your worth though

Shawn_NYC

"your equity in dollar amount will be increased"

I have two things:

A grey beard
A lot of $0 options in companies that got acquired

react_dev

Software Engineer

I never said anything about liquidity ;)

Akforce

Embedded

I'm in the minority here, but I was offered 0.27% of a startup I joined. I just signed to receive my payout of their acquisition, and it's literally right on the nose.

The difference is that the company survived solely on revenue until they could do a large exit. If you want to chase the startup dream, look for companies that do this.

doktorhladnjak

It should or might. If the company continues up and the right, and controls costs. No guarantee for will.

Redditor000007

Well, you can prevent dilution by having your paperwork state your shares are non dilutable. Won’t happen though.

CourseTechy_Grabber

Best of luck with your interview today, and I hope it leads to a much better opportunity!

TurintheDragonhelm

Thank you! It was just an introductory but I think it went well! Hopefully onto the technical interview next.

Faustye

Startups have turned into get rich schemes which prey on junior and naive devs who don’t know better. I was one and will never work for an early stage startup again. At the end of the day, the only thing startups can give is experience which is invaluable as well. Most people I know hopped after a few years in a startup to big tech because they couldn’t get in right out of graduation. If you’re looking to make money always go for big tech.

Oh and in the case startups do succeed, the founders make a good ROI but you bet whatever your shares are will be diluted to nothing as an employee. Let’s be real, your startup becoming a unicorn is the same as winning the lottery, except you get 0.5% of the earnings if not less.

TurintheDragonhelm

I think I’m in a much better position to get a job in big tech now. Probably going to grind some leetcode and systems design and start applying.

IdoCSstuff

Senior Software Engineer

From how high big tech salaries are these days, I have seen people that make $1 million by their mid-twenties. There are many people who have and will continue to be able to make $2 million - $ 4 million within 10 years by having a career in big tech out of college as an IC. Most people won't make that kind of money working at a startup, and they will have to work much harder.

Farren246

Senior where the tech is not the product

I'm surprised that you got into all of that without realizing that everything is a guess and value goes down the shitter fast.

MarkDaShark6fitty

Sometimes in life; seeing first hand why a company DOESN’T work is just as important as being at ground zero for a unicorn. The experience you gain from rubbing shoulders with start up c level execs as a young engineer is worth its weight in gold. That experience will help you land a nice corporate gig or other step up the ladder.

“ The successful people weren’t the smartest; they were the ones that never gave up”- some rich guy. Peace

WalkyTalky44

Working in a startup as not a founder = not ideal

Working on a startup as a founder = ideal

Those who work in the startup don’t get paid and usually won’t see return from equity but the founders/VC who has it will see a ton of return if acquired.

CountryBoyDeveloper

Startup culture is bad, we been saying that on here for ages.

StructWWDC

Whoa that’s a lot to take in. 🥲

HQxMnbS

Those podcasts are just VC propaganda lol

TheRealMichaelBluth

I worked at a startup (series B) and I’d work my current corporate job over that one any day. I remember just trying to get a laptop (that the rest of my team who started after me had) and other new equipment/software was like pulling teeth

motherthrowee

see this is wild for me, I previously worked for a ~10,000-employee corporation and I assumed that was why trying to get a laptop was like pulling teeth, between the begging corporate for budget and only receiving enough for the absolute low end, the multiple of layers of higher-ups who had to sign off on it, the arcane dinosaurish IT restrictions that had little to do with the actual job, the delays on all of that, just the thicket of bureaucracy

TheRealMichaelBluth

Interesting. I feel like with big corporations they’re good about matching equipment within teams but if you want to deviate it’s a pain. In my case at the startup, I was asking to be matched, not have better equipment than the others

Shoeaddictx

I'm now working at a small startup. This is the most flexible job I have ever had. Full-remote, salary is really good, good tickets, good code-review, nice technologies. I only have 2-3 years of exp, so it's good for me as I can learn as much as possible while grinding. Maybe I got lucky but I never have to do overtime and it is quite chill. Some weeks have so many tasks to do and some weeks are more down.

blipojones

Ye same, 100% remote, startups are a shit show but they have tons of potential fkexability.

young_n_petite

I know this is just wishful thinking, but I’d like to found a start-up one day. I don’t want to be extremely rich. I don’t want to be top dog - in fact - I’d be really happy being a regular employee that gets paid fairly for my experience.

I just don’t feel comfortable reading about how everyone’s being sold short, laid off for quarterly earnings, not having a good work-life balance or not being rewarded for staying at their company.

The main reason for wanting to become a start-up is because I want to offer qualified people a chance at having a job where they don’t have to worry about the long-term or about work outside of work. Moreover, I want them to have fair pay and as much flexibility as I can provide under any circumstance. If the company does end up growing to a dozen or two people, I’d pay employees small bonuses on a per-project basis depending on how much they contributed and how long they’ve stayed at the company for. These things would be in some written form, and I’d try to lay out our financial situation after each project for everyone involved in order for them to see I’m not cheating them. No weird company culture or events that are “optional”. Everyone should do with their free time what they want. I want to invite everyone over to a grill party? I’d take it to work and offer everyone an hour off at the end of the day and invite them for some food.

Wishful thinking? Of course. I’m aware that I need capital to hire anyone else let alone keep myself afloat. I wouldn’t be a millionaire any time soon, but that’s not my goal. The company wouldn’t be profitable with this school of thought, but what matters to me more than that is that everyone - myself included - feel happy with their job.

One can dream.

TheCactusBlue

Software Engineer

You don't want a startup, you want a small business. Most people shouldn't run their companies as startups; it's okay to be a small business with a reasonable growth and a reasonable culture.

Shoeaddictx

Mate, I have two economics degrees, I'm a self-taught dev, learned everything on my own, from books, projects, videos, etc. Never did any bootcamps. Got my first dev job in 2021. Had two layoffs in two different companies and here I am, currently working as a full-stack dev at a startup and the company is going really well. It is hard sometimes but if I can do it, you can too!

BubbleTee

Senior Software Engineer, Technical Lead

I'm probably one of the few people on this sub who thrives in the chaos of startups. They aren't for everybody. It's okay if they aren't for you.

anubgek

Software Engineer

It’s one thing to thrive in chaos but the money is often so much better in big tech. There’s definitely a risk factor that also needs to be considered.

BubbleTee

Senior Software Engineer, Technical Lead

I'd rather get paid very well and enjoy my life than get paid ridiculously well and feel my soul die inside every day, it's fine.

politicki_komesar

Starups exists solely to take all R&D risks and optional benefits. If you are not in upper echelon, than it is a mining job with a little sun to see. It is more problem for younger people who still lack experience in internal politics and setting targets; which mostly turms out to dissatisfaction as in your case. You are no worse tham any of people you work for; but playground is setup at your disadvantage. You are supppsed to trash out once not needed any more. From your position, you will never get upper, to valuable work horse to get promoted. Change job before you start trashing money on medicins and doctors.

_mini

You will have to be extremely lucky to find authentic founders, been through and heard many horror stories.

If you join a startup, value the experience as the main goal.

pianoloverkid123456

Slightly nitpicky , but valuations have a very strong basis in reality. They’re based on market demand from VCs to invest in the startup. More demand == higher valuation

EarthquakeBass

Based on the reality of how much competition there is from other VCs to invest in a piece of it. Which is a very different pricing mechanism from finding an exit

pianoloverkid123456

Very true lol

CountryBoyDeveloper

I have seen many not really based in reality at all.

longblackcheesecurds

I worked for startup for 3 years after college and just switched to a big tech company, just gotta say it’s better already

txiao007

Get yourself a Happy Meal and call it a day

TurintheDragonhelm

Sounds great honestly

HappyFlames

If you're going to take a startup job consider the equity portion of your comp to be a lottery ticket. It could end up big, it could end up $0, but for most, it ends up somewhere between $0 and a new Camry.

Nekaz

I mean youre basically gambling you hit it big or get bought out right i thought thats what you sign up for.

Obviously for every success story there 50 mfers eating shit just like any business.

halford2069

Yep most fail , are built on lies and a lot are terrible crunch like nightmares to work at.

Schley_them_all

I was naive too. I had big dreams and went to go work for one, and was crushed under the amount of work and bad leadership. I walked away with equity, but who knows if they’ll ever go public

DrDank1234

if i’m gonna be working at a startup, it has to be at least close to a Series C company.

No mentorship, no standardized system, poor management… etc

Those are just a few downsides. Not to mention your team can be dissolved without any warning. I’ve been laid off twice before the winter holidays.

nsxwolf

Principal Software Engineer

Try it once when you're young so you can say you tried, then just go for the big salary. Startups are truly a lotto ticket.

CooperNettees

idk i think starting with the big salary is smarter

nsxwolf

Principal Software Engineer

Probably in absolute dollar terms. But then you won’t kick yourself wondering what could have been. Just like age 21 to 23 or something.

patrickisgreat

I work at an older company that’s still technically a startup. I have equity. I doubt it will pay off. The WLB is less than desirable. That’s how startups be. Conversely, giant companies can bore you to tears and drown you in red tape. I’ve worked in both environments.

Anaestheticz

I've been at my role for about 3.5 years and I enjoy it and it's a startup. No complaints here and pay is solid.

motherthrowee

idk, I currently work at a startup with a small engineering team and the mentorship so far has been excellent. maybe I just got lucky

that being said I just assume and expect that my equity is worth nothing, and I changed careers from a field where almost literally every single job is unstable regardless of company size so I'm used to that part

Boring-Test5522

I never recommend startup to younger developer. It would make bad habbit to your working style / coding style and how you ship features in your career.

For old developers (40+ years old guy), I would recommend it because you guys have nothing to lose. You guys already have a good career and have a good war chest for rainny days. You guys already build so many features that you can easily spot a successfull or a going to fail company miles away. You guys already have a career network that if the company fail you can fall back on.

Young developers have none of that.

houseplantsnothate

Dang, did I write this?

inm808

Principal Distinguished Staff SWE @ AMC

Revenue? Why would you want to make revenue???

https://youtu.be/BzAdXyPYKQo

TurintheDragonhelm

God I love that show. Hits different now.

europanya

Hol’ up. You get pizza? 🍕

No_Damage_8927

Sounds like you’re at a bad startup (like you said, most are bad). Selecting for a competent CEO will increase likelihood of payout pretty significantly. So many things can fail. I can’t even imagine having the slightest chance of success if you don’t have someone extremely smart and competent at the helm.

TurintheDragonhelm

The CEO is actually really brilliant. I do think they will be successful and very likely be acquired, but the upside is not there for me like it is for them.

digitalknight17

Only worth it if you’re a founder.

reddit_user_100

Purely financially, working at a startup has a pretty poor EV. IMO the only reasons to do so would be to learn about the industry-specific problems and build a network in the vertical. Those two things will make spinning up your own startup far more successful. EV as a startup founder is way better than as an employee.

TrailofDead

Worked for several startups. Some great, some awful. But one got bought and I made a lot from it.

Playboy_in_Braille

Young men dream of old men's nightmares

SassyZop

Hiring Manager

All that happened was you grew up. Nothing wrong with that.

xx_swagonometry_xx

Software Engineer

Based on this thread it really seems like the equity package should be pretty low on the list of considerations when picking between positions, esp. between startups, which is interesting.

epicfail1994

Software Engineer

Startups sound horrible unless you’re one of like the first dozen employees

No thanks, I pulled enough 80 hour weeks in grad school when I was working. I’ll take a stable slow company any day

codeethos

"Listened to TWIST daily" Yikes, OP really has done the time. I can't imagine listening to JC larp startup knowledge for more than 5 mins.

codeethos

All for the benefit or shareholders who have a much larger equity stake than you.

TurintheDragonhelm

I will say he has gotten progressively worse, but yeah after the ALL CAPS BANK RUN I was very turned off.

Pretend-Ad2632

Literally VC Slop (lol), for some non-technical investor who larped, grifted, and tapped his way into the world of start-ups/venture capital, got luck with a couple of investments (Uber, Robinhood) and he thinks he knows everything as evident on the All-In podcast and TWIST.

Conscious-Buy-6204

If u are talented enough and a good enough leader, id suggest starting on yourself.

If it means that much to you.

TurintheDragonhelm

Oh trust me I have considered it. I’ve also considered buying a house.

Conscious-Buy-6204

Whats the problem exactly? Money? Do it on the side and just use pure swear equity. How old are u if u dont mind me asking?

TurintheDragonhelm

Paralysis of analysis for me. I can’t pick an idea and stick to it.

picklesTommyPickles

I have worked at two different startups over the last 8.5 years.

The first got acquired for less value than the options were worth (so if you left and purchased your options, they converted to less than you paid). I did leave but chose not to purchase any of my options.

The second one IPO’d.

I got extremely lucky because for every IPO that I’ve ever seen, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of failed startups in their wake. I consider the equity granted at startups to be a complete gamble. It’s almost exactly like putting money into a slot machine.

If money is your goal, go work for a stable company that offers reliable bonuses and invest that in funds. You’ll almost certainly make way more money that way in the long run.

I love startups because I get to be part of an extremely small and scrappy team, working on solutions to novel problems. Or novel solutions to existing problems. The equity is just funny money to me. If it converts, great. But I don’t expect it to

THICC_DICC_PRICC

Software Engineer

PSA to everyone, startups are a bad way to build wealth. Odds of success are low. But they are very fun and have a small chance to create great wealth. You should get into the startup circuit after you’ve built a nest egg, not before. It’s great for semi retirement

TurintheDragonhelm

At that point I’m starting my own.

THICC_DICC_PRICC

Software Engineer

True, but starting your own is a lot more work. Like a lot more. Day in and day out, weekends, you’re working. Possibly 0 income for a year or two. Joining early stage in semi retirement is great in the sense that it’s fun, you get some income, you don’t have to work as much as a founder/owner, and if it blows up, you’ll make good money. It’s a nice chill life. That’s what I’m doing now. I had to do a pretty brutal big tech/HFT circuit beforehand tho

Pretend-Ad2632

Or when you're young and have time to take gamble.

THICC_DICC_PRICC

Software Engineer

That’s what I used to think, but I’ve realized when you’re young the value of compound growth of your investments is insane, it’s best to get cash and invest it. Once you have money to gamble, start gambling.

SahirHuq100

The startups you worked for,how much did they raise?

Seaguard5

Do you not know anyone at the top by now?

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shadowofsunderedstar

Do you have to or are you even likely to believe in their idea when you join a startup?

realshr

Hey can i dm ?

TheScriptDude

I worked for 1 startup and got fired after a couple of months because I was not the 10X developer they expected me to be. After that experience, I told myself I would never work for a startup again (and I never did). 99% of startups are a cesspool of lies, manipulation, and toxic hustle culture. I much rather make 10k less a year and have a work-life balance and stable-ish mental health.

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CooperNettees

startups are not for everyone. if its one with revenue and runway it can be pretty chill. i like that i can get up when i want and leave work when i want. i like the minimal oversight. i like that i know i will never need to go into the office. i like that i would be expensive to replace.

but yeah the pay sucks, the crunch can be awful, no revenue is hell on earth, theres no reward waiting at the end of the tunnel.

Alternative_Draft_76

I may be interviewing for an AI security startup and will keep a lot of this in mind.

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codeethos

You can sell your soul to big tech and work on a very specialized technology with limited autonomy for endless hours until you are eventually laid off or let go because you won't work insane amount of overtime.

Woah-Dawg

120k is very low for senior. New grads in bigger companies in high cost areas get a over 200k

MicrowaveKane

Sr. SDET | 17 yrs XP

/r/KidsAreFuckingStupid

NoFamilyDoc

r/lostredditors

RespectablePapaya

-1

Who is "they?" It's widely known that existing shareholders are diluted in subsequent funding rounds. This isn't something "they" need to tell anyone. You can figure stuff like this out in less than 5 minutes of googling. It's your career and you should actively engage with understanding how you are compensated. Yeah, early stage startups are a lottery ticket. You know that going in. I've worked for a few startups. Never hit it big, and occasionally we had to do things like unload trucks in the loading dock because nobody else was around to do it. You know that going in. That's why a lot of people will advise you to start your career at big tech.

And who hates pizza parties? I love pizza parties.