Apologies if this had been talked about endlessly but my father in law the other day was talking about a family friend who doesn’t have a traditional job and stated “he has no pride” just because he isn’t employed. My friend the other day was sneering at her ex “because she works" and he didnt. im so tired of this culture of assuming that employed people are morally superior to those who arent. and hearing friends and family feed into this capitalistic propoganda…
Why does everyone automatically assume someone whose employed is better than someone who isn’t
The only correct answer.
I'm a soon to be stay at home dad. But I'm currently not working , and on VA disability. My wife is a teacher and is working her dream job.
I do most things around the house, and errands. It works great for us. We save a ton of money and things just run super smoothly .But the absolute amount of shit people give me or comments that are made ( usually behind my back) gets old. I shouldn't be embarrassed but some how I am based on their reactions. I really should start making up what I do when people ask. The amount of snarky comments, or people that will instantly look down on you is pretty crazy.
They'll ask and I'm honest about it, the reception is usually the same. It's always some form of pitty/disgust followed by awkward conversation after.
It's pretty sad that it took a week long hospital stay where I was unable to walk for things to start clicking with friends, family and her co workers. Though that all went out the window again once I was back on my feet and moving better.
All that said it's afforded my wife and I the life we want to live. It's a better life for both of us, and it's something we weren't getting when I was working over time or 2nd and 3rd shifts. She's happy, and our kid when she has it will be taken care of by me not day care. Everything just works.
This is why I made of jobs and it’s pretty fun. “So what do you do?” And I’ll reply “I’m in freelance” and they will say “oh well what kind of work do you do?” And I’ll reply “well what do you need done?” It really throws them off.
What's insane is that nobody would hate on you if you were a lottery winner who quit your job because you won enough money to immediately retire. As if that takes hard work and skill. IMO nobody has a right to disrespect you for your employment status unless you're truly lazy AND begging THEM for financial assistance.
No one having the right to disrespect you for your employment status is exactly my point. It’s the height of sanctimoniousness and disrespect IMO, the few times you can is if YOU are the one being burdened by providing for them financially. The whole idea of not being employed automatically meaning that you’re lazy needs to be put to bed. Once my friend from high school I hadn’t seen in awhile asked what are work schedules were and jokingly I said “I’m unemployed” and she goes “sorry to hear that” I had just finished college and was studying for law school entrance exams. Like why do we automatically feel scornful and/ or pity?
Yeah I'm not sure if it's because some people wish that they could weirdly be in this position, not working and getting money,or because they don't see the bad days and think I'm more functional than I am or what. It's kind of like if I parked in a handicapped spot. ( I have the paperwork I just don't want to go to the DMV. lol) I'm sure someone would see me walk into the store and make a deal about it.
What they don't see is that it's the one ok day I had that week. Even through I'm mentally dying inside and my body barely works right. Lol.
Id definitely trade feeling well for any of this money I get that's for sure.
I instantly feel awful any time someone asks me what I do.
I still think the best answer to “what do you do?” is “I’m a drug dealer”
I’m disabled and my husband is my full time caregiver, his job is just… facilitating our regular daily life.
It truly isn’t as easy as it sounds. My son is 9 months old and a wild child. Very demanding. Here’s a photo of him in 8 years.
I raised two stepsons who looked about like that when I met them. Now that they're grown I'm a nanny for cousins, who also look about like that.
Currently on day 2 of their mom going out of town for a week. I took like 7 buses today because the preschool is on the opposite side of the city. Pay is the family "what you can afford" rate, so like $20 a day.
I'm so exhausted, haven't had time to turn my computer on in days, ran errands for elderly auntie three times this week already, and have been doing so much cleaning that the skin on my hands keeps pulling apart. My dad thinks I'm the laziest most useless waste of resources ever.
But stay at home parent is still a job though. I’m assuming this person is talking about people who are just unemployed and doing absolutely nothing.
But stay at home parent is still a job though
It doesn't count because a SAHP doesn't work for a wage and therefor doesn't make some rich person even richer.
I think this plays into the same mindset and arbitrarily divides people.
Some people argue it’s only a full time job if you do 9-5 outside the house.
Some people argue it’s a full time job if you stay at home and rear your loin fruit.
It could also be argued looking after yourself is a full time job.
It’s all semantics and perpetuates the prevailing paradigm, when we need to be decoupling the concept of work from an individual’s value.
Agreed.
"Turtle shits" 😂
It's that stupid protestant work ethic that's woven into the fabric of American society. It's the same way with people assuming that a wealthy person is some important guy because he has money, all the while never taking into consideration the fact that a lot of wealthy people have money because of windfalls from wealthy relatives and don't do shit other than sit and infact never did shit other than sit on their asses and enjoy their money.
It's Gaytarded.
Just tell them you're on a special undercover assignment for (branch of service). I'm an undercover disabled American vet.
"I never run out of ideas for fake jobs"
You should be a CEO
THis is the result of propaganda and social conditioning.
You work = you`re good.
You don`t work = you`re a drain on society
it`s pretty much that simple. Or boils down to this anyway.
…unless the reason you don’t work is because you’re a millionaire or billionaire who lives off their assets. If you’re that kind of non-worker, then you’re a fucking hero. 🙄
My grandpa thinks if you are unable to work, no matter the reason, you shouldn’t be allowed to eat.
Is he retired?
Cause if he's not the first thing you should do when he pulls the pin is immediately take every last item of food in his house since people who are unable to work shouldn't be allowed to eat
Sorry gramps I didn't make the rules. You did
I mean it’s true. Who is paying their bills? If it’s the government, yes it is a fucking drain on society. 38 year old woman who has raised children and works full-time. I am so fucking confused by what you guys expect the government to do for you. Lmao government assistance is supposed to be temporary unless you were disabled. Again, will you people be fucking real?
And no disability or SSI pays enough to actually live off of unless you have no other choice.
I firmly believe in a society that takes care of their elderly infirm and children. I don’t believe in taking care of grown adults who just don’t feel like working….
Will YOU be fucking real? How do people manage to ignore that most of actually useful work already has been mechanised/automated away over the course of 20th century, and almost everyone is just sitting in the office shuffling papers around and pretends that they're working.
Yeah she really didn't touch on how the filthy rich took most of the proceeds of our increased productivity due to technological advancements. Why does anyone still have to work 40 hours per week just to cover their basic needs? That was the standard 100 years ago, when the average worker produced much less
Uh just fyi social welfare programs are a drop of water next to the oceanarium full of water that is spent on corp subsidies (welfare), foreign "aid", and propping up banks. In other words welfare for the rich is a much larger drain than social welfare for individuals.
It’s such a drop in the bucket of the American budget you can’t even call it a drain on society. It’s more like a trickle, or condensation on the outside of the actual budget. (Water is a very good metaphor for money.)
Why? Why do you think being exploited so that you can purchase basic necessities is a good way to live?
Shelter, food, and healthcare are all basic rights that every single human on earth should have automatic access to. There is no amount of not working that means you deserve to die, but that is basically the way of things right now.
All of the basics should be provided. If someone wants to not work, they still deserve to live in dignity. But the fact of the matter is, if people have their basic necessities taken care of? Most people want to contribute. Most people want to participate in society. They’ve studied this over and over and over again with limited UBI testing. Just giving people money increases employment rates. Every time.
Imagine working at a place because you like it and you’re doing something you’re good at. Imagine working at a place where all your coworkers are content to be there. No one resenting every moment they’re there, not doing what they need to, feeling like they’re stuck, etc. Because they’re not there under threat of total economic ruin, they’re there because they actually want to be. Doesn’t that sound way better? Doesn’t it sound like it’d be nice to have the freedom to change jobs or step back to part time if you, say, want to go back to school or if your situation changes? But, of course, giving people choice like that means our employers have to treat us like humans, not cattle. And a lot of them absolutely hate that idea. Gosh, I wonder why.
You can keep carrying water for the people who just want you to shut up and work yourself to death if you’d like, but I invite you to imagine a world where we could instead have a system that actually benefits everyone, not just a tiny fraction of people.
Most people want to participate in society.
Society with basic needs covered unconditionally would be another society. Current society can burn for all i care.
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I’m sure there would be a percentage of people who would be fine with just the basics like that, and that doesn’t particularly bother me. I think all people are inherently deserving of those things, they shouldn’t have to be “earned.”
I do think it’s a bit hard to truly imagine, though. You’re making that determination living under this system that grinds us into dust and, like many, are understandably exhausted by it. I think there would be a chunk of people who would just rest for a while, but eventually, in general, humans just like to do things, you know? It might not be traditional work, or necessarily as much work, but having the freedom to go do something you maybe enjoy but doesn’t usually pay that much, knowing that there’s truly nothing forcing you to stay there? Totally different circumstances, IMO!
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I didn’t take your comment to be argumentative or jackassy at all, no worries!
I actually think there would be a lot more people who might be willing to do some of those kinds of jobs. I have known people who really enjoyed working retail, for instance, and were really good at it, but they just couldn’t live on what they were being paid. Food service is another. Take out the threat of homelessness or lack of healthcare and a job only has to suit your particular skills and personality. That might be ambitious, chill, complicated, easy, etc. Plus it’s an incentive to ensuring those jobs that are less glamorous but still deeply necessary get paid what they deserve precisely because they’re so necessary. (Garbage collectors, for example, are already paid pretty well, relatively. Though I’m sure it’s still far less than they deserve.) Maybe it’s not someone’s calling, but if it pays well and they’re treated with dignity, I think that would still attract plenty of people.
Something like plumbing is a trade, and I think people with trade skills like that tend to enjoy their work. There’s kind of a cultural aspect to it almost. Like, my husband is a maintenance mechanic, and he would 10000% continue working even if all of our basic needs were met. He just likes fixing things. He likes figuring out what the issue is and making it work. There’s also a good possibility that there are a bunch of people who would love to go into these types of industries, but currently can’t, because they can’t afford to or don’t have the time/energy to get the education or certification needed. Same for jobs with even higher education requirements—if you can safely be unemployed for a while to go back to school, how many people would jump at that chance?
I do think the dreariness of our current reality makes it hard to conceptualize, but working at a place where you are paid well, treated fairly, and feel like you are accomplishing something actually feels really good. I never would’ve picked my current job during career day, certainly, but I do genuinely enjoy it. It’s not the work itself, but the fact that I am treated like a human being with value. Which I think is ultimately what it boils down to. If we have an actual robust safety net where employment isn’t strictly necessary for survival, then employers have to treat their employees well, pay decently, not let them suffer mistreatment, and not work them into the ground. If they do, then they can just leave. Which is of course exactly why the people in power don’t want it to happen.
I have many artistic abilities I'd like to full develop but I can't because I need to eat, for example.
In our recent past as a species 100% of people were unemployed
key words there being 'who don`t feel like'
People who WANT to - but are unable to are a different story.
The wheelchair bound person - who got in the chair due to a drunk driver? Yeah - ideally the drunk driver pays for however long is required.. but if the government does, fine with me.
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Thank you for sharing this. First time reading it.
Well propaganda of our current generation heroizes labor as honorable and expected to deflect from the exploitation of the wealthy benefiting from those indoctrinated.
Imagine if you asked someone who are you, what makes you, you, and you got a deeper answer then their occupation! It’s about identity. How do we see ourself. If we only see ourself as an employee how can we expect anything more then the current situation?
When I ask the question, “who are you, what makes ——-?” 99% of the time is first a pause. After that, I would say,70-80% give their occupation. The rest who tell me anything other then their current job title really give some interesting stories as their identity is wrapped up in values that aren’t mainstream and I love it.
While your points are salient, the propaganda goes way farther back than this past century.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic
A great example of the ills that come from mixing religion and politics.
I will admit, I got unemployment for most of 2020, I got $600 a week to stay home. I've heard a lot of criticism about doing it, that it was lazy. Honestly, it was amazing, I couldn't understand the people saying they had nothing to do and were bored, I made and sold 10-12 paintings, I wrote, my house was so clean, I researched my genealogy. I wasn't working a traditional job and it let me actually live as a person. Now I work full time, make $100 less a week, and have no time or energy to do most of my creative outlets and my house is a mess. Ive always joked if I had the body and dance moves I would totally be a stripper, because working customer service is more humiliating
People think productivity means work only, they dont even think about doing somthing fun to be productive
Oh yeah, if you aren’t making someone else money, you aren’t being productive.
This is the core idea of this sub, imo. Work life is structured such that you don't have the time or energy to be human. It doesn't have to be that way.
Wow, $600 a week for unemployment?! Fuck, I got $280 a week. AZ sucks.
I just saw a would you rather thread with ”would you work part time in a gas station if you couldnt tell anyone why, if you made 10k a month” and acted like it would be social suicide and so terrible to have to tell people you work at a gas station that no money would be worth it. People just love kicking downwards and feeling superior
I would absolutely do that! But then I don’t see a job as a status symbol, it’s a means to an end.
Turning that down because it's a "low status job" is one of the most mind-numbingly stupid choices you could make. (Assuming you currently make much less than $120,000 per year). Imagine caring that much about what other people think of you. I couldn't give less of a shit if some douchebag thinks I'm a loser when I haven't done shit to them.
I think you already know the answer. Under capitalism, people’s worth is synonymous with how economically active they are. The exploitability of their labour (ie how much money they can generate for those higher up the chain) is prized over all human qualities. This is why society hates disabled people so much.
As someone who is full time employed but has truly been on both ends of the spectrum (homeless) I’ll truly never understand what some people get out of making fun of someone who isn’t working…just blows my mind
Im pretty sure people just love to feel superior to others. I’ve noticed it’s the people who are insecure about themselves feed into this crap the most
Because our society is built around the idea that "person's income = person's worth". Which is dumb, but that's capitalism for you. Anything and everything is a commodity to have a value placed on it, even humans.
Its because people assume those who dont working are abusing the system for easy life. Theres probably a few people who do and they get all the attention about it
Irony is that what makes life hard in first place is mostly... that very system.
Our society is based on the (false) premise that the value of a human life is based on what it can produce for society - although recently that's been corrupted into attributing the production of large numbers of others to a singular few who don't actually produce anything.
The true value of a human life is inherent, and that should be recognized. Once we do, we will see that the sort of capitalistic and money-based economy we have is so ethically close to slavery that it is truly no better.
No, our society is based on the fact that these jobs are actually required and needed for a society to function normally.
Yes, but if someone is keeping other people alive (who can provide for themselves but choose not to) by working to provide for them, then I see no problem with seeing that person as superior.
Wow, did you actually think that statement through first?
By that argument, the stay-at-home mom is inferior to the dad who goes to work. Good job, you just regressed to the 1940s!
No, because a stay at home parent is completely a job. We’re referring to people who are not disabled, not talking about staying home taking care of their children, we’re talking about people who literally just sit on their ass and have other people pay their bills.
Dude, that’s literally what I said and I’m probably gonna get fucked down voted to hell. Hey guess what? I don’t wanna rely on daddy government to pay my bills because I would rather make sure that I can pay for my kid to eat. Because daddy government doesn’t pay enough. This is pathetic.
I see the complexities of the structure and failings of modern society are completely lost on you. You've condensed it down to "state = bad, Arbeit macht frei". Well done you, I bet with this oversimplistic notion you think you understand it all.
I don't think any of the complexities of modern society are lost on most intelligent people, but some people are able to figure out how to push forward to better their position working with what we've got, as opposed to leeching or giving up.
Depends on the circumstances. If a spouse stays at home as does literally nothing while the other spouse support both of them, that spouse is not doing his/her share. It not capitalistic when you have to eat and provide a home.
Just dealt with this on another post.
People don’t actually understand how hard it is to get hired.
Because society generally, but especially under capitalism, has tied peoples' value to their ability to work/produce capital. In part this is because one of the *major* forms of leverage that capitalists hold over workers is the threat of homelessness if they do not work.
This also ties into ableism i.e. why people with chronic illnesses, disabilities etc. are often discriminated against for being perceived as "low value", "bums", "lazy", "a drain on society", etc.
Work is not automatically ennobling. Vocational awe is a thing, but it is not a given.
It's just a slavish attitude that has developed among utterly cowed communities. Keep in mind that abused people are often the first to defend their abusers.
Calvinism
Because a capitalist meritocracy as a state religion treats lack of success as a moral failing
It’s the boss class brainwashed by Big Corporate. People need structure. Trump made it all worse and we need to stop him.
It's called the "cult of work" and it's the most popular, most widespread religion in the world.
It's the idea that work is inherently good, that anyone who does work for a wage, is therefor a superior person than someone who doesn't. If you work, you're better than any mother, any caregiver, any disabled person and any homeless person. Anyone who can't work due to circumstances is, by default, a worse person.
It's an article of faith.
The "why" question does not apply. There is no explanation. Everyone in this country is an indoctrinated member of the cult of work.
I was once asked by a housewife if my husband had a disability because I told her I work full time. I said no he works as well, she was shocked that women work. Here in the bible belt South, the norm is that women stay home and tend to the house and the men work as per the laws of the bible. If I could get paid by the amount of women that look down upon me for working full time outside of the house, I should be rich.
I feel like this is also just sexism as well. People criticize both stay at home moms and working moms, but I’ve never once heard anyone criticize the decision of a dad to stay at home or work
Here in the bible belt, yes, it is very much so sexist. Teenage girls out of high school demand boys to work for them and they shouldn't have to get real jobs. If a man stays home or even has a day off but is seen outside during work hours, every single housewife here gets on Facebook or next door or texts everyone and announces "poor Smith family, they must be having financial troubles because Frank is home all day. What a lazy pos."
It's the Calvinist belief system that is underlying the American psyche. Bloody ridiculous indeed.
Because society has a bad habit of teaching that people's worth is dependent on how much money they can make their corporate masters.
I always found it weird when people talk about “dream job”. There’s a lot of things I dream about doing, work is not one of them. But society has made it where people have to lie and act like they do sadly.
I think you already know the answer. Under capitalism, people’s worth is synonymous with how economically active they are. The exploitability of their labour (ie how much money they can generate for those higher up the chain) is prized over all human qualities. This is why society hates disabled people so much.
A society that thrives on capitalism requires cogs for the machine. In order to get the most cogs, they need to make everyone believe it’s immoral to not be a cog. My wife was a SAHM for years. I have always made enough for us to thrive as a one income household. All she ever heard from boomer family members is how much she would regret losing time in the workforce. Imagine telling a young mother she was going to regret spending as much time with her babies as possible? It was always, “something, something, lost earning potential.”
Independent business people aren't employed either.
Know a woman who built a business from nothing after her divorce. Five years later she sold it for enough to live on for 8 mo with some CDs left over. She has a job now with an international bank credit union.
Lifetime of capitalist propaganda.
The slaves are being proud of their enslavement. "Are you unemployed?" "Yes correct, currently not a slave."
In general, everyone should do some form of work. Capitalism as it stands today isn't particularly moral... but yeah, doing some kind of thing regularly that's useful is important.
A good 40% of jobs serve no useful purpose outside of the artificial framework of capitalism. They don't improve humanity as a species - they just help to shift imaginary numbers around, usually subtracting them from those who need it and then adding it those who already have more than they could ever spend in a lifetime.
Yeah. That's my point. But in general, as a member of a family and community, you should be doing things. Maybe cooking for your family. Maybe fixing stuff. But in general you should contribute in some fashion. If you're not, then you do have a morality issue.
You seem to be misunderstanding the concept of r/antiwork. You are defaulting to the idea that when people here say they "don't need/want to work" they mean "don't do anything at all." That is not true. You can read over the info in the FAQ for the sub.
I'm currently unemployed (despite applying to over 250 jobs for which I'm qualified) and have been for a year. I don't do "nothing". I keep the house clean, I work on personal projects, I do a lot of stuff every day.
The fact that you immediately jump to the idea that "people shouldn't have to work if they don't want to" means they're lazy tells me you've got some preconceptions you need to challenge.
When I joined this sub it was about scamming corporations by working 5 jobs remotely where you do no actual work, or creative entrepreneurs like dog walking. I have no issues with that.
This is outside of that. Making other people feed you, build you a house, and who have done you no wrong, deviates from an otherwise perfectly moral path and I don't think you speak for the sub writ large in that. In the current system, where you either fuck or be fucked, it's fine... but we're talking about broader universal moral concepts. I expect outside of a fuck or be fucked system you'd behave differently.
In fact I'm quite sure if you, I, and 1000 other people landed on a new planet just like earth... You'd pitch in towards group survival, because there'd be no gatekeeping that you're experiencing now.
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My point is that the antiwork sub generally isn't talking about that kind of work, so his arguments are based on a false assumption, and therefore rather pointless.
Be specific and give us a source.
Ima disagree not everyone ‘should do’ some form of work nor should that be needed in a normal modern day society. This brings the huge ‘people should die for the economy’ vibes from the right wing ideology from the pandemic
You're not understanding me. Forget capitalism for a second. Forget about working to make rich people richer. Just as a person living in a community with a family, you should be contributing in the same way that you receive contributions of your kin. Like imagine you were just a dog living in a pack, you should participate in the hunting no? Or should you just participate in the eating? The reason our society sucks is because of wealthy leeches who are never content and extract the labor of others to benefit themselves. Even if you remove all wealth, you're still faced with the need to distribute labor, and whoever isn't participating is taking from everyone else without giving. We aren't plants who can survive off just sunshine and rainwater.
Why?
To be able to provide for themeselves and not leech off others.
So everyone not in active employment is leeching off others?
If they can provide for themeselves and choose not to, then yes.
It's always so funny watching the people who have wandered into the wrong sub XD
Pardon me while I go make sure that my kid has food, housing, and clothing. Are you fucking kidding me what’s wrong with that? Lmao I should live in poverty because other people don’t wanna work? Get over yourself seriously
No, I’m anticapitalism, but you guys are actually stupid. If you believe the government gives a fuck enough about you to pay your bills.
It's a perspective issue. Enough automation and material currently exists that every man woman and child working shouldn't be necessary anymore. If robots produced everything, there wouldn't be enough jobs for everyone to work, but not everyone should have to work. Studio apartments or small houses, a set value of food, heat, water, Internet, etc could all be free with people only working if they want something more. Want a 5 bedroom house? Sure, work for it. The best part about this is this could all be done without significantly reducing the wealth of the wealthiest. It's possible, but we're all stuck in a 1960s mindset that if you're not going to a 9 to 5 every day you're somehow worth nothing at all.
I don’t know what world you’re living in that automation as it currently exists is able to replace every working person.
I’m currently working on a construction site with thousands of workers, automation does not exist that can do the work.
My industry isn’t the only one.
Not everyone can work though. What about disabled people?
From each according to their ability, to each according to their need, is how most people approach their family and that's a good way to look at things.
Not regularly. When necessary.
Define "useful".
Well, there’s a difference between somebody who is unemployed freeloader and then somebody who is actually disabled and cannot work…
Like why isn’t the person employed and who is paying their bills? if it is the government that is fucked up, especially if they’re clearly able to work….
Sorry, yes that is what losers do.
Edit: the comments in the thread from everyone saying that no one needs to work.
Y’all understand that society functions because people work? Also, how do you pay your bills if you’re not earning an income?
So let me get this straight no one should work so society should not function and how the fuck would we get food to eat? Do you own a farm? No - you’ll starve. Be real.
Oh, you do own a farm; you would have to get out of your house and tend your land in order to get food. That is still work… lmao
“Capitalistic propaganda” - certain jobs in societies are absolutely must, infrastructure, sanitation, medical, protection, and fire- what kind of society will we live in when none of these jobs exist????
I am floored by this thread. There’s not one thing that you people like to do? Anything that would earn income to feed yourself? I don’t get it. Sorry, I like to eat. Sorry, I don’t want live in abject poverty in a society, like the poorest countries. People cannot be serious with this mentality.
Who told anyone that other people are supposed to pay for you to live when you were able bodied? That does compute to me.
You are correct. It’s a matter of can’t, won’t, and don’t need to. If you are unemployed because you legitimately can’t, I don’t think we do enough to support those people. If you’re able but won’t, you are a drain on what we could do for those can’t. If you don’t have to, good for you. Luck in life worked for you. Hopefully you do what you can to help those who can’t.
Employment is relation of servitude. And this whole social setup is a part of how people cope.
Well, I think it really depends on the context. If you're 30 years old, able-bodied, and living in your mom's basement, then you definitely should be employed.
If you're well off, work for yourself, or is a stay-at-home parent, then being employed is not that big of a deal.
Some assume the opposite.. you make a wage your not even in the same atmosphere as them
Just be productive.
Though it’s funny that like 75 (I’m guessing) percent of entrepreneurs never had a “traditional job” same for inventors. I think I’m not far off though : Approximately 40 to 50 percent of entrepreneurs maintain traditional employment while launching and growing their businesses
Ok so I’m not totally off in left field though so it’s approximately 50-60 percent.
Not everyone. Solidarity.
I’m unemployed and feel automatically back in high school. Like the cool kids are employed and the nerdy kids are unemployed. I’ve always loved being a nerd, but not in this scenario 😕
I've been in this type of situation before and I never use to give a rat's ass about it and I made sure I draw a boundary around me and see to it that people don't question me incessantly about the same thing. I used to warn them that relationships would break down if they asked about my employment over and over again. IMO, you need to make ppl understand the reason, and if they're repeating the same then warn them.
I've had times I didn't work, and while my family had supported me, it took a huge mental toll on me. Society is rough. My wife had recently told me I don't need to work and I could stay at home, but I don't think my anxiety would ever let me do it.
I was laid off due to staff reductions after 30 years.
Even though I'm very close to early retirement and we're fine on money so there is nothing to worry about financially, I have to admit it is an adjustment.
Realigning your life without work is difficult, my spouse is very supportive and wants me to early retire, it is a struggle.
I think probably a part-time job might fill in the gaps, maybe?
The perception is someone who's unemployed is a lazy leech and noncontributing member of society. After all, if they don't work, they must live off someone else's work and resources (e.g. family, spouse, welfare, other social assistance). They're a net drain on the community.
I was unemployed for months at a time in my 20s, and being a young woman protected me from some criticism but not all. I was living off of savings from a part-time job I had since I was in the 9th grade, and rent was like $600 in the 2010s - I just wanted a break. I wasn't sponging off anyone, but it didn't matter. It's about optics.
We're all still haunted by the ghosts of a bunch of puritan assholes.
It's good that you know the truth
I’m sorry this isn’t what this sub is for, imo. People don’t like people who are lazy and leech from people. It doesn’t matter what the context is 🤷♂️ we need to be producing things in our society, not just consuming.
I would say that the jobs are turning pointless when you can’t even live off it, though. That is true. But I still do not think people who nothing to help society get it…there are always things that need doing. It’s not about employment it’s about getting what needs to be done done.
Plenty of jobs nowadays are just shuffling paper and pretending to do work as someone else stated
I’m sorry this isn’t what this sub is for
Ex-fucking-cuse me? This is a sub about abolition of work. It makes it very clear everywhere, in its name, in the sidebar, in the wiki.
It’s about anti work, and that’s not pre-defined. As far as I’m concerned. To me, anti-work is about fixing what is wrong in the sector of society that all engage in the make things happen every day.
I would agree, jobs where people shuffle paper and kick their feet up are entirely useless and are the reason we can’t be paid fairly.
A better future of work of work is not /no/ work, it’s better work, fair work, and equal work and pay amongst fellow humans. This stuff will always need doing.
So you're basically pro-work.
Honestly? It's a sum of how much they benefit people minus what they cost others.
I've got no beef with subsistence farmers. I've got no complaints about sociable beggars. Yet I despise rude beggars.
Even my primitive ape instincts are clever enough to understand that a person is deeply untrustworthy if they refuse to reciprocate support in any way.
I think the rational reason is that- in a lot of cases- the people who are not working, particularly if they aren’t caretakers (for parents or kids) are having their life style funded by someone who is working.
So yeah, I don’t know what a non traditional job is, or what the deal with the ex is, but I would feel superior if my ex wasn’t working, didn’t have money, and wasn’t trying to.
I don’t hear anyone judging people who don’t work that are disabled or have passive income
People in the US have a sick obsession with status. and the more money you have, the more status you could potentially have. I recall once I was out at a local brewery and my buddy and myself started chatting up another guy and his wife. We got to the topic of employment and when I mentioned that I worked for a local big box retailer, the guy scoffed, remarked "pff, where are they goin?!?" at me and from that point on refused to interact with me, as if i was absolutely and totally below him. He handed my buddy his business card, shook his hand, and walked away as if I were invisible.
That’s a scary story honestly. Sorry that happens to you. I can’t imagine going through life thinking you’re above people like this. What a sad way to live.
I think there are two sides of the issue. Work for the sake of work, or work as a moral activity, in and of itself, is stupid. But taking responsibility for your own life, making sure your loved ones are reasonably well taken care of, making a genuine positive contribution to society, those are all morally good activities. They aren't synonymous with work, although work can be one means to those ends.
Slaves gunna slave.
Different people mean different situations. There are lots of folks who have money or have disability income due to legitimate health situations. If you’re supporting yourself with scams or leaching off people who care about you when you could be doing more to support yourself it’s hard to have respect for that.
Disagree with the assertion, "Baskets" on Hulu is a show almost all about this. I think we all root for the "unemployed clown" on that show over the "employed asshole brother". We all look at the world through our own lens so perhaps it feels that way though.
It's really just about attempting to be fair to other people. If you are able to contribute to your household, but you simply choose not to, while a spouse/partner/otherwise has to do that much extra work to support you, then you're being a selfish asshole. If you make the effort to do your share, to "balance the load" between everyone in your household, then you're doing good. These contributions don't always have to be monetary. For example, being a stay-at-home parent & homemaker is an example of a potentially worthy contrubution that isn't techincally employment, but is definitely work.
If you've got enough resources to get by, and aren't exploiting anyone else to do it, then there's no problem.
It all depends on the why.
If you are unemployed because of a reason like you can't handle 40 hour a week job because of a list of self diagnosed issues, then...yeah people are going to look down on you.
The more important thing is to stop giving a fuck about what others think of you.
If they think you're lazy so what. If they think you're awesome. So what.
Who assumes this? I assume if you're not working then you're very well off and I envy this person. If you choose to not be employed when you're not well off to leech off programs that the employed people pay into then yes you will be looked down upon.
All this moralising while banks just create money out of the air...
Yep I agree with you. The root issue is our monetary system for the many areas. I'm just stating my opinion on the question OP answered.
I mean if your friend was working and her BF wasn't. Who do you think was paying for shit? Likely why he's the ex
He had inheritance money
Oh well then she's likely jealous haha.
I’m confused. I thought rich people who don’t news to work are part of the elite of class this sub rails against? Is it now acceptable to have that level of wealth when they are friends?
If the person not working is independently wealthy and needs help from NO ONE to pay expenses to live, fantastic, I wish I were them.
But if the able bodied person, choosing not to work, is on any type of assistance or relying on family/friends to pay for their expenses, they are nothing more than a leech and deserve no respect at all.
Of course I am not I referring to SAHP in this as long as it is agreed between way both partners that one parent stays home.
What about students
Also think you’re on the wrong sub. Imma guess and say you think UBI is for lazy, entitled leeches
Further, people using any type of assistance are leeches? I put in financial requests at my job to help provide special populations with assistance in housing, food, clothing, transportation (using company money) . So all those people are leeches?
I specifically said able bodied person choosing not to work.
All of my clients are able bodied
And do work? The second part of my description was “choose not to work”
Most of them do yes, or they are retired and get social security. But it isn’t enough so I help them with that.
I think you just wanted to get mad at me.
No where did I say that people who work who need help are leeches. I am all for helping people who are trying to help themselves.
The last two words in your post are the key to your sentiment. Not being into the system that basically grinds you to death is punished, and this is why "Open-to-work" badge shaming in LinkedIn is a thing, also. It's appalling, but unfortunately we must go around it to make ends meet. I am grateful I am employed and never been laid off so far, but I'm also aware this could change tomorrow.
Is the person who is not working, freeloading on others? Or are they doing other things like being a stay at home spouse with family/household duties, or are they financially independent? Context.
Because as an unemployed person, of course I see employed people as better because they have money and can do more things than I can. I hate working but I feel better with income because I can pour income into my hobbies. With no money, wtf can I do? What a stupid post.
Universal basic income baby
No.
I’m a stay at home dad on VA disability and a tribal stipend. My wife works full time from home and I spend most of my day with my son and doing shit around the house. When people ask me what I do I make something up everytime. I never run out of ideas for fake jobs and the reactions are priceless. I personally don’t give 2 turtle shits about the opinion of a nine to fiver, my son is happy and my wife is happy.