www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/democratic-congresswoman-florida-women-are-in-agony-as-state-s-six-week-abortion-ban-takes-effect-210072133973
Democratic congresswoman: Florida women are in ‘agony’ as state’s six-week abortion ban takes effect
Loss of LibertyThank you for teaching me something today.
I know it didn’t work out so well in the story but I’m still going to stick to it.
There you go, ladies. This old woman will support you in spirit! ;-D
Debbie is one of the reasons Florida is so fucked. Years ago, as one of the leaders of the FL Dem. party, she rolled over for the GOP gerrymander in exchange for a couple of safe districts for herself and her cronies.
Exactly, that capital B can shut up and sit down as she created this mess wholeheartedly. She even went out of herway to prote t republicans she approved of over democrats who didn't kiss her skirts
I'm kind of surprised that no one has refused to comply in an effort to get arrested and make national news.
I get it's throwing your life away (at least until the GOP is annihilated in November), but people have taken stands against evil at great personal cost in the past. If I was a doctor being asked to torture pregnant people in the name of religious subjugation, I would be willing to violate that law and do prison time. It's the right thing to do.
Of the tens of thousands of doctors in affected states, not one of them had the courage to say "no?"
Why hasn't someone set up a practice labelled "Religion-free Hospital," offering reproductive healthcare, set up live-streaming webcams of the public-facing office, and waited for the illegal enforcement of these laws? That would have political value.
This hospital rejects the illegitimate use of state violence to enforce religious law.
I'd be willing to do a few years time but the sentence in some states is decades and prisons these days torture people. It's not just some building you can't leave.
Even if it were a short sentence, they'd lose their licenses. There are already doctor shortages. The patients would be the ones to suffer if doctors did this.
I suspect that feelings of duty to other patients plays into this. The other piece is surveillance by the insurance leviathan and hospital administration. Don’t get me wrong, I think it would be beneficial to society if there were visible “Alright then, prosecute me” cases, but I would bet that there are also some folks looking into how to provide care underground, same as before Roe.
Yes, if you go to prison to save 1 patient, how many others will die?
Healthcare workers are being forced into making life-and-death Hobson's choices, which is why they're fleeing red states in droves.
Doctors can take forever to pay off their schooling costs. Losing a license before you pay off the loans would be devastating on top of years in prison.
Patients are already suffering. These bans are creating maternity deserts. If these bans become national, that's it. Every female (and the people who love them and may rely on them) is fucked. Every doctor and nurse who stays WILL be forced to murder/cripple their patients and bankrupt whoever's connected to them at the end of it, all to please the religious minority.
For sure.
Nevertheless, there were men who ran at machine guns storming the beaches of Normandy all in the name of protecting the world from evil.
Don't get me wrong - I get it and I'm glad I'm not in that position myself. But I do know that I'd almost certainly be willing to throw it all away rather than cooperate with the torture of pregnant people through the illegal implementation of religious forced birth. That kind of thing isn't compatible with my moral code.
I'm just kind of surprised we haven't seen it yet.
Going to prison means you can’t vote.
I don't think the power is going to be with the Doctors. It's going to be with the women themselves. They hold more sway in regard to reproduction and maintaining the population. Have you heard of the 4B movement from Korea (or wherever the hell it originated)? These women need their version of that. Just stop giving them more people to abuse.
We all know that this is about control and not about saving anybody's lives.
How shitty, though. Like, I’m pregnant right now (in Canada, thank god - although access to care in rural and remote areas is still abysmal, for all that its legal). I have friends who are pregnant, one of whom is in Florida. I know of one friend recently who had to take mife in order to complete a very early miscarriage. She and her partner just got the all clear to start trying again. It’s such a huge ask to ask women who would very much love to start a family to straight up decide not to, possibly forever, because of a political movement. Don’t get me wrong, I’m prepared not to return to the U.S. until after I’m done having kids and my tubes are tied. I don’t blame anyone looking at long-term sterilization measures. But it’s just…such a shitty position us to be in.
By the time someone becomes a practicing doctor they already have gone through many years of sacrifice and deprivation, both financially and physically. Now they’ve finally gotten to the good years that they’ve been looking forward to for years, and many of them still have massive student loans debts that will take years to pay off even on a OBGYN salary. What you’re asking is just not realistic, especially considering that they wouldn’t just be destroying their lives until the democrats are in charge again, they’d almost certainly be sacrificing their ability to practice medicine permanently.
To be clear I'm not asking anyone to do this.
I'm just surprised that not one doctor has stood up and said "no."
I think people still don't quite comprehend the gravity of this situation and what happens if people don't start reacting vigorously to religious subjugation.
There is a near 100% chance that several someone’s have refused to comply in one fashion or another, but are not publicizing that fact.
I was pre-med in college and I’m planning on applying to med school in the next few years, and I felt the same way. I was really upset that no one tried harder to help the women in Texas until I found out they physicians can get LIFE IN PRISON for giving someone an abortion, even a life-saving one. There have also been OBGYNs who have been killed in the past for giving women abortions so I can understand their hesitancy. After four years of college, four years of medical school, minimum four years of residency, and often hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, I can understand why they feel the way they do. It’s a truly awful situation.
ETA: the awful part about certain states like Texas is that physicians can’t even give women resources to get abortions out of state. Anything can be used against them for “helping women get abortions”, even if it’s out of state.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Residency/s/iG7DbRgeWQ
This is a comment written by an OBGYN practicing in Texas and gave me a better idea of their perspective.
Oh, I get it completely. I wouldn't expect every doctor to take that risk. I'm just surprised that none have.
"Doctor so-and-so sentenced to life in prison for saving life of pregnant patient" is a headline that would probably spark so much rage people might finally start to react to what's happening. And as soon as the people take action and replace the individuals responsible for this nightmare and the Supreme Court is restored to legitimacy, the sentence would be commuted as the law is unconstitutional on its face. Pretty hefty lawsuit against the state, too.
I'm just surprised it hasn't happened once.
I mean, there are lots of places you personally could take a stand right now. Why don’t you do that and risk a prison sentence?
I'm in Canada, and believe me I've been active for 20 years trying to shift the overton window.
I led a campaign to mail a few hundred signatures to about a dozen of our representatives demanding Canada officially recognize the "public promotion of forced birth ideology" as a hate crime against women.
Of course it didn't succeed..... yet.
But one day forced birth will be correctly recognized as a form of rape and treated the same way. We need to get people talking about it.
I've stood on more street corners than I can count.
I'm thankful to live in Canada, but if our government falls to religious forces like the US government seems to have, I'll be on the frontlines locking arms with good Canadians.
Fellow Canadian - I’m interested to hear more and to carry on this movement in my region. Do you have any info or direction you can point me in to get an idea of what the campaign looks like/the wording used for the letters, etc?
It was right around the Dobbs reversal. Here's the thread I created as I was getting started back then:
Women and girls in Canada: the forced birth movement is here. Please take action!
The responses I got from our MPs was mostly good, though non-committal (as expected). It's all about starting the conversation and shifting the overton window.
Nationally the conversation shouldn't be:
"Should abortion be legal? Should there be restrictions?"
It should be:
"Should we arrest and imprison religious people who publicly promote forced birth ideology?"
It should be compared to calls for genocide, mass rape, slavery, or any other crime against humanity. Not normalized.
It’s unfair to put doctors in this position.
For doctors, who have spent years and years in training and sacrificing their lives to get the point of where they are now, it’s not throwing your life away until November or some other time when this could get repealed. It’s throwing your life away forever - having your medical license revoked*, potentially going to jail, potentially losing custody of your kids, etc. Not to mention the financial implications - a lot of doctors are deeply in debt for the first several years of practicing because of student loans.
This isn’t on doctors to fix - it would be nice to see more doctors speaking out, but there are constraints with how much that can be said - a lot of them feel like they can’t rock the boat if they are tied to a hospital system. Hospitals are a whole other issue - they are very afraid of doing anything that could be perceived as going against the law. If a hospital is pulled into a lawsuit, it could impact state/federal funding, accreditation, keeping their doors open for other patients, being sued by patients for malpractice, and not to mention their reputation.
*You can’t magically get your medical license back with a change in public policy or when there someone new is elected to office.
It’s unfair to put doctors in this position.
No shit. That's 100% on christian fascists and the politicians that conspire with them.
But at some point you're part of the system. I'm just surprised that every doctor has been "okay" with that to the point that none of them have stood up said: "no."
"The law is the law" but if I were a doctor being asked to let a patient be horrifically injured by a pregnancy, I would not comply. That is fundamentally incompatible with my moral code.
The doctors who cannot and will not tolerate practicing that way can leave the state. And they are, in droves.
The ones who stay in these states do so out of responsibility to those patients who would otherwise suffer from lack of access to any medical care. Them being in prison defeats the purpose of remaining in those states.
The ones who stay in these states do so out of responsibility to those patients who would otherwise suffer from lack of access to any medical care. Them being in prison defeats the purpose of remaining in those states.
The problem is that's how this nightmare becomes normalized - the status quo.
Abuse of compromise is how evil sets its roots.
I think it's more that most people believe this will all be over by November. I hope they're right.
True... how quickly I forgot about Dr. Bernard. If Biden was smart he'd very publicly present her with the Presidential Medal of Freedom award.
You'd be willing to lose your job, your home, your car, make your family destitute and homeless forever?
No, you wouldn't.
Doctors are people like anyone else, with lives and families. They've sacrified a decade of their lives to do this job. They're not going to throw it away for someone they don't even know.
Don't you see how OP is willing to put it all on the line by, checks notes, posting anonymously from Canada?
Lmao right
Piss off. I've been fighting for reproductive rights in my country for 20 years.
Personally, I actually would.
I've had a good life.
I have no desire to sacrifice myself, but faced with religious subjugation I would engage in whatever acts necessary to protect society, those I love, and those I care for. Life is short, and then it's over; this is the same for everyone. At the very least, I'd like some documentation that I was on the right side of history. That will outlive me by centuries.
I want to be clear that I didn't expect every doctor to say "no." I'm just surprised that none said "no."
I think about what it must have been like storming the beaches of Normandy - heavy machinegun fire, mortars, artillery, .. chaos, terror, and destruction. They sacrificed everything they were to defeat evil.
Standing in court and saying "I do not tolerate religious interference in lawmaking or in medicine" and being sentenced to a long time in prison?
Yes - I would.
There aren't any circumstances under which I would become part of the aparatus of evil.
All I can think of are leopards eating their faces.
Get out of Florida! I can't say this in any other way. I'm not going to coddle anyone. Why wouldn't you want to help save the world?
Where should you go? Read this!
Floridian here - a lot of us can’t leave. It’s really not that simple. I would love to live elsewhere, believe me, but I literally cannot afford to move.
Came here to say this. I have a legal parenting agreement. If I just left the state without going through an expensive attorney, I would get charged with kidnapping and thrown in prison. It’s never that simple or easy.
I'm stuck in Texas for the same reason.
I have a good friend who moved back specifically to start a family, bc that’s where her extended family lives, and she wants them nearby and could use their support. You shouldn’t have to leave; neither should they.
The Republicans have millions of votes trapped and cancelled in Florida. Texas too. And every other state Trump won in 2020.
They really want you to stay.
Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Georgia will decide this election for you.
They shouldn't have to do this for the entire world
But they do. Send your thoughts and prayers.
It's May and Trump is winning EVERY Swing State!
I have been being 'nice' for 5 years.
By wasting your vote for President in Red States Trump has already won, Like Florida, Like Texas, Like Tennessee, etc, not only are you destroying yours and your daughters future in Florida, you're helping the Trump Cult destroy the lives of women all over the nation and the world!
Thought I recognized that face. Not a very popular one, if I recall, for what she did.
It really makes me wonder how many of these law makers have investments in pregnancy test companies…
Or are setting up their for profit adoption corporations.
There’s money to be made in all this garbage, you can count on it.
There’s money to be made in all this garbage, you can count on it.
Especially when they can lobby the Federal government for subsidies and bailouts.
🐆
Since the cost vs quality (abuse) of private prisons has made the headlines, I figured it was just a matter of time for a switch up.
There’s going to be BIG MONEY to be made in children given up because of the changing economy and archaic laws against women. You can count on it.
They already started coming after abortion and birth control. With the obsession with keeping up the replenishing of their population of religious nutjob cogs I wouldn't put it past them to try to pass some law making sex mandatory or endorsing marital rape, or some kind of bullshit. I heard sometime back Elon was talking shit about taking the right to vote away from childless people or something. Bitches be trippin.'
I really, really want to see a performance of Lysistrata now that I know about it though. * lol *
I’m Lysistrata. If they think our only power is between our legs then I’ll use it.