AITH for not honoring my late moms wish to reconcile with my brother

Listener Write In

10 years ago I caught my brother and my fiance, my HS sweetheart, in our sacred spot being intimate. We were 19 and my brother was 21, we were planning our wedding and I was 3 mos preg w/ identical twins, a very high risk pregnancy. My parents were there to diffuse the situation but that night I declared my brother was 💀 to me and he will never have my forgiveness nor will he ever see me again. I had the twins 3mos early due to developing a condition that is common with carrying identical twins. I was a first time mom of twin preemies already recovering from a trauma and later I was diagnosed with PPD so it's safe to say I had a rough time for about two years. My parents were there every step of the way, my ex said he needed to step away for a while in order to be the best dad. He came back when the twins were 2, he came out to me as pansexual he let me know he still wanted to commit to me he had a hard time with his sexual orientation but the time spent away gave him all the clarity he needed. I refused him ofc but he insists I'm who he wants so we just co-parent, it's been going well

My mom recently lost her battle with lupus but her dying wish was that I make a real effort to reconcile with my brother. I wanted to tell her the truth in that moment but I love her so much I couldn't fathom her transitioning knowing her family was forever broken. It's been a month now, my father knew what my mom wanted he has been bugging me about it but I flat out told him I couldn't do it, I would never do it! I hold grudges it's doesn't make me hurt nor does it give power to my brother. His act although he wasn't alone catapulted me into the worst depression of my life and there is no coming back AITH???

in TwoHotTakesby No_Assumption_2137

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FoggyDaze415

387

NTA. Death bed requests are BS and not fair.

Ginger630

I agree. I think they’re selfish.

NatureCarolynGate

Dad needs a reality check

SetScary9216

Dad did just burry his wife. It's only been a month for him, unless he does something to betray OP he's earned a little bit of slack.

MizWhatsit

I would have no compunction about telling my parents any damn thing they wanted to hear if they were on their deathbeds. Whether or not I actually do whatever I said I'd do is something else entirely.

DanceClubCrickets

I was thinking the same thing. I have no belief in any afterlife, and the title of the post didn't say anything about whether OP had lost her mom yet or not, so I was gonna be like "just lie to her. Tell her you're gonna do it and then don't."

2ndBestAtEverything

Super manipulative. Ouch.

Puzzleheaded-Cut-194

174

NTA. Don't do it. I had a co worker whose dad made her promise on his deathbed that she would never get divorced. Her husband beat her, and mentally abused her. The stories she told us were horrible. And they all ended with "my father made me promise..." Guess what! She's dead now. Her youngest child is about 10. Death bed promises are bull shit.

Stormtomcat

that's horrifying!

for your co-worker, but also for those kids who are now alone with their father, and didn't even get to see their mom stand up for her or for them.

why would her father even ask that of her?

Puzzleheaded-Cut-194

It was their culture. He did not believe divorce no matter what.

Stormtomcat

wow, a literal version of that meme "tradition is just peer pressure from dead people". so sorry to hear that.

marv115

803

10d

No, I mean he hook with the father of your kids while you were pregnant, just no. I can't even begin to imagine the BS excuses he probably told you or your parents, just no. There are unforgigable things and this is one

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10d

Terpsichorean_Wombat

165

Why is always twins?

webtin-Mizkir-8quzme

I don’t know - I actually have fraternal twins, and it isn’t glamorous! It’s hard. People are always amazed at twins though.

SeaOk7514

According to a couple of people I know who had twins it is a extremely difficult time to have two, helpless infants to suddenly have to care for. I am not the least surprised when I see twins involved.

Cosmicshimmer

Having only had 1 child at a time, the thought of multiples is genuine nightmare fuel.

OriginalDogeStar

Twin to Twin Transfusion Syndrome is the pits... I would ask my sister, but she wasn't the surviving twin. That being said, it is easier to treat now than 46yrs ago, but still as dangerous.

Unusual-Sympathy-205

21 years ago there still wasn’t much in the way of treatment. We were lucky and both of ours survived, but it was rough. At one point I was having ultrasounds 3 days a week at a major university hospital 2 hours away.

I’m so sorry about your sister.

OriginalDogeStar

Thank you. I wasn't told I was a twin until much later. When I was trying for kids, I was told it was TTTS that took her, and one of the options that were in testing was to split the placenta, I still don't know how that went, but it wasn't needed.

I know that there are options of blood transfer to the weaker twin, and also many other options that seem invasive and mad doctor like,

TTTS is an ageless condition, for the mother, I know that it was once considered if you had identical twins really young, or as a geriatric pregnancy, you would definitely develop it, so might be better to terminate one of the babies so it didn't also harm the mother.

I am glad that it is now around 50% chance for both to survive very healthy. I wish it was a higher number, like 90% of both surviving or 100%

No_Assumption_2137

Yup that's what it was I was so depressed I had to will myself to the doctor every two weeks for the ultrasound and the one appt I wanted to miss saved my youngest twin. I went from the babies doing well to stage 3 TTTS in two weeks I was rushed to the hospital immediately after and the twins were delivered in less than two hrs UGH I'll never forget the fear I felt that day!

OriginalDogeStar

When I was born, it was 90% likelihood was only one surviving.

The treatments now are simple and have a much less death rate. It's not a nice low rate... but I know it is now under 50% chances of losing one.

StrugglinSurvivor

I have a very dear friend who was pregnant back in the early 80s with twins at about the 6 months mark she found out that one of the babies had died. But she needed to continue the pregnancy with it still in side her as she could. They ended up inducing labor less than a month later for the health of the surviving baby. On top of the pregnancy and birth issues. The little boy was in prenatal icu for 4 months. Only to come home with monitors, oxygen, and 2 alarms hook up to him.

He's healthy and smart and doing great still.

Secret_Bad1529

Twins run in some families. I had a set, and my nephew has as set as does my niece. Three sets of all boy twins!

Unusual-Sympathy-205

Apparently only fraternal twins run in families. Identicals are just a crapshoot, but more likely to happen when the mom is very young or on the older end of the fertility range. (I learned this from my high-risk pregnancy specialist when I had twins at @40. My younger family members were very relieved to hear this info. 😂)

destiny_kane48

Fraternal's run every third generation on my mom's side. I always thought it's be me who had the twins. I had 6 miscarriages so it very well could have been. I also have one cousin who is staunchly child free (he and his wife are in their 50's/60's so not happening). I had my only child at 40 and was very very glad he was a single. So mad respect for having twins at 40. I know hard it is with just the one.

AmethystSapper

Oddly crapshoot or not... My husband's uncle had two sets of identical twins with two different women.

No_Assumption_2137

Fraternal twins run in my family and his but I'm the first to have identicals but I've heard this so much, it's not a trope it's literally my life which is why I don't talk about. Most people have this same reaction.

dragonrider1965

High risk twins at that .

Chadmartigan

Just missing the paid-off house inherited from grandma.

OriginalDogeStar

So close to Reddit Bingo... darn

knight_shade_realms

Right? And the fact she developed something that's common with carrying "identical twins ' not just common with a pregnancy of multiples.

I am kinda curious as to what only affects pregnancies with identical twins though 🤔

M-P-K-K135

That would be Twin to twin transfusion syndrome (TTTS) which occurs only in monochorionic twins (identical twins who share the same placenta). I wouldn’t say it is common but it is something that only occurs in a pregnancy with identical twins.

knight_shade_realms

Thanks! Learned something new today

Vandreeson

161

NTA. Your brother could have been with any other man, but he chose your man. Your brother chose to lie to you, and betray you. Why would you forgive him?

Revo63

Not disagreeing, but the same should be said for the ex-fiancé. He’s engaged and about to become a father, somehow feels this is a good time to explore his sexuality?

Ok_Boat_1243

I agree that in an ideal world she should have gone no contact with her ex- fiancé. However, she is prioritising the children’s wellbeing and ensuring that they are able to have a relationship with their father. The children are more likely to be affected by growing up without having contact with their father compared to children not knowing their uncle. It would have been a weight off of your shoulders to tell your mother the entire story, however you valued her mental health and that was a kind act.

Regarding the question, NTA,

leolawilliams5859

Which is why when he came asking to reconcile she said no and they are co-parenting her twins.

clearheaded01

139

NTA

Never speak ill of the dead, but really?? Your mom kinda blackmailed you here..

Stay NC if thats what you want...

ConnaChamaeleon

I have to apologize, I was thinking “yeah of course she’s gonna stay NC with her mom….”

I’ll show myself out.

Busy_Weekend5169

Actually, my exact thought as well. I need more coffee.

ConnaChamaeleon

Never going NC with coffee

aardvarkmom

Hmm…. NC = no coffee, too!

ConnaChamaeleon

Definitely NC to NC! That’s straight up blasphemy lol

Busy_Weekend5169

Same

deliascatalog

Being haunted by a family member you went NC with, new fear unlocked

ConnaChamaeleon

Ooooff it’s a lot trickier to block a ghost o.o

someonewithapurpose

I tought the same 🤭

mercyhwrt

I hate that saying lol you’re speaking ill of the living person, who just happens to be dead lol

EnvironmentalAd4616

I think it’s awfully selfish of people to be on their deathbed, and their final dying wish is for their loved one to reconcile with someone who burned them on this level.

Oh, I’m so sorry your brother diddled your fiancé while you were pregnant. I’m dying and my final wish in this world with the time I have left is for you to forgive your brother. For diddling your fiancé, and helping play part in your relationship falling apart, all while during an already hard time in your life.

Easy pass. Also, screw your ex fiancé for all the crap he pulled on you during this. He screws your brother, and decides the best thing for him to do to be a good dad is to fall off the face of the Earth until they’re 2? What kind of crackpot is he?

Kyra_Heiker

You do not owe anybody forgiveness. He betrayed his own sister for fuck sake.

Lucky-Effective-1564

It's harsh but... she's dead, she won't know whether you forgive him or not. Trying to talk to him will probably bring back all the hurt you had at the time. I'm sure you don't want that.

NotDaveyKnifehands

Your Mom had a wish...

My Dad had a saying about the futility of Wishes... "You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, only one of them will ever fill up"

Sorry Mom. Wishes dont come true. Tough Shit

Last_Friend_6350

I like your Dad!

EconomyProof9537

You are 💯% correct ma’am. Some things are unforgivable and “I will forgive in hell!”. You never give a viper another chance to strike. He already screwed your fiancé next time it will be your husband.

chuckinhoutex

Effectively- legally speaking- you have to deal with the children’s father- and choosing to do it in as healthy a way as possible is in the children’s best interest. But there is no such grace for your brother, until or unless it feels right for you.

Pinkie_Flamingo

I would be worried about allowing a person of low character into my bsbies' lives, and the strain of attempting a reconciliation when your energy is vital to babies' development now.

There's just no payoff for you and your family if you prioritize this now.

Tell dad, you might need a decade or two before you are ready to try and you feel you are honoring your mom now by living your best life.

livelife3574

She doesn’t care. Do what’s right for you.

Last wishes are forfeit in the last breath.

Demoness19

You are not the asshole. Let's go through a selfless checklist here.

You considered your mother's dying wish and let her go peacefully........ Check

You raised your twins alone for two years and let the father come back into the picture after being a dead beet........... Check

You are already having to deal with the father of your children's betrayal while co-parenting and being the best mom for your kids so that they can have both you and their father............ Check.

I want to let you know, you do not have to live your life for other people. And if dealing with your ex and child's father for now is all you can stand to handle that is okay. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE FEELINGS. But I want you to also consider that it was not just your brother who had a part in this. But your brother is not the father of your children therefore not a necessity in your life at this moment. Do not let someone pressure you into something if you are not ready to deal with the trauma yet. Even if you are never ready. You may grow older and find love and realize your brother may have done you a favor in a fucked up way. But you may never trust or want to be around him again. and that is 100% okay. I would recommend therapy just so you can handle all the stuff going on in your life so you can take care of yourself and your twins and so you may be able to move on into a healthy and stable relationship in the future.

I think your mom may have felt responsible in some way for you and your brothers falling out. She may have thought there was something that she could have done to stop this from happening. She probably let that fester and saw how it was tearing apart her household and wanted to see it be whole once again. But it wasn't on her, it was on your brother's actions and your not wanting to reconcile is okay. She is gone and left at peace. Think about it this way, you could have told her no, and she would have died upset and maybe would have tried to pressure/manipulate the situation to make you feel bad enough to budge. But this isn't about her anymore. If he doesnt add anything to your life, he doesnt need to be in it.

No_Assumption_2137

I'm in therapy but I currently struggle with forgiveness I feel so misunderstood bc everyone have told me I am hateful for not forgiving them. When I don't think about them at all! I don't feel like be unforgiving is hateful, I think holding grudges is a form of boundaries and I've been getting so much pushback it's hurting me all over again! I've been feeling this way for a decade nothing has changed!

ImWithNeo

I relate to this so well! People think because I’m NC with certain family members that I must hate them when the reality is I NOTHING them. I don’t wish them ill or good, they’re just not on my radar at all. Don’t let other people control your relationships. My favorite saying with the family who brings it up is “My relationships are mine, not yours, and it’s not your business if I decide to have them or not.”

reetahroo

I understand. You sound like you have forgiven actually because you are moving on. You don’t need to have him in your life and you have to have the ex in your life as much as the court orders. Not having them in your life is not that you hold a grudge it’s that you’ve learned who is for you and who could care less and hurt you. If your fiancé was confused fine but he could have told you about to cheat is not acceptable and to cheat with a sibling is despicable. Your brother was just as low. You know your worth and have learned who to have in and not let in your life. It’s like if you know fire burns why touch it? You know your brother is a despicable person that you can’t trust so why entertain him in your life?

JustAsICanBeSoCruel

It's hard to forgive when no one validates why you were in pain.

They just want you to get over it when the pain you felt was in fact there so you would learn not to be hurt like that again. Your brother destroyed your trust. What has he done to prove to you that he's not a complete and utter POS like he was before?

Demoness19

I feel like you should work on forgiving them for yourself. and to take that burden from you as I can tell it weighs on you. It was not your fault at all. It was all your brothers and Exs. That is who is at fault. When you are ready of course. That could be on your death bed if you wish. Even if you forgive that does not mean you need to see or talk to your brother ever again. I wouldn’t want him in my life either if I were you. You are justified.

Slow-Frosting-9607

Why would she forgive him when what he did was unforgivable? Why do people here always take sides of the ones that wronged ? She doesn't have to forgive, she should live her life in peace and not think about him. She doesn't owe him forgiveness.

SentientKumquat88

Tell your father if he mentions it to you again He can join your brother on the list

bluedreamer62

Too bad you couldn’t stay NC with Ex too. He was old to know what he was doing he betrayed his pregnant sister just no coming back from that. Has he tried to apologize?

No_Assumption_2137

He has

PotatoMonster20

NTA

It was nice of you to make her happy in her final days.

But what you "agreed to" in the moment wasn't binding. Not legally. Not morally.

Your brother betrayed you. There's no getting around that.

And you're the only one who gets to decide if you'll ever forgive him for it.

Let your father know that you're done talking about it. You love him very much, but if he brings it up again? You're going to take your kids and leave the room. Leave the house. Leave and stay away for x weeks. Because you're done. The more he respects your wishes about that, the more he'll get to see you and the kids.

callmebigley

info: was your brother pitching or catching?

No_Assumption_2137

On his knees

Kitchen_Zebra_5403

Your brother and your baby daddy are both the assholes.

FunkyBobbyJ9

Not for anywhere near the same reason, my dad's wish was the same for my brother and me.

I do not think that will happen, but I leave the door cracked. I am not sure I could or would even crack the door in your shoes.

Glad you are hanging in there OP.

Tight-Shift5706

I'd Crack the door only if I could slam it on his knuckles.

Outside_Frosting9957

NTA

Curlytomato

When cheating occurs I agree that the partner is more to blame than the outside party because you have a relationship, a bond, you are not just strangers.

For OP the betrayal was worse from her own flesh and blood, even worse than her high school sweet heart/fiance.

I understand parents and other siblings wish it was different but all the wishing in the world will not undo what was done, or the consequences .

GoOutside62

I don't quite get it - are you hiding the fact that your brother was intimate with your fiance and that's why you are estranged from him? Why on earth would you protect that secret for him? He has already hurt you enough. The consequences of his actions are his to bear - not yours. Tell your father the truth. Tell everyone who is encouraging you to "reconcile" the truth. Good heavens. You are entirely justified in remaining NC with your brother but without sharing the facts with the rest of your family, It makes you seem like the problem.

Ginger630

NTA! You don’t have to honor her wish if that isn’t what you want to do. This isn’t about her. It’s about YOUR relationship with your brother. She had nothing to do with what happened and it isn’t her place to say anything to you. She knows what happened. To ask that of you was wrong.

Tell your father to stop bringing it up. Your brother betrayed you in the worst way and you refuse to speak to him ever again. This is for your mental health. Your mother is gone and you are very much alive. Your mental health is more important than her dying wish.

Resolved__

Why do dying people think they’re entitled to anything they ask for because they’re dying? That’s not going to suddenly melt the well-deserved animosity you have for your brother who metaphorically stabbed you in the back with a giant knife. Your dad also needs to stay in his lane.

Krafty747

Life is for the living. Do what you need to do.

brfoo

You can do it on your own time. You said it’s been a month. That’s barely any time. It’s common for estranged family members to take years to reconcile, especially over something so painful

Mammoth_Leg_8489

Pansexual is just the new word for promiscuous

pseudonymphh

No, you don’t owe anyone to anyone. And your father shouldn’t be bugging you, if anything he should be bothering your brother about becoming a better person.

PsychologicalHalf422

You said you’d reconcile. You didn’t say when. You’re feelings may change in the future so never say never but honor the feelings you have now. Tell your father or anyone else bugging you about it that time may heal this wound but it hasn’t yet and the pestering isn’t helping.

lapsangsouchogn

The dead should not control the living. Any promise you made to her was void when she passed.

I_am_aware_of_you

You ain’t dead yet… you can make a real effort from your death bed

Logical-Wasabi7402

"why should I make any effort to forgive someone who hasn't made any effort to pretend to be remorseful over destroying my relationship?"

CryptographerSuch753

NTA. My sister has kept to her promise to our mother that she would keep the family together for 25 years. She causes herself so much pain maintaining a relationship with our father. He is a cruel and narcissistic man. I cut him off about 15 years ago and my life improved exponentially. I understand the desire to keep a death bed promise, but at some point, you have to do what is best for you and your kiddos. Wishing you all of the best, OP!

No-Whole-4916

Interesting creative writing exercise, you really hit all the tropes here.

No_Assumption_2137

Ohk

NeverRarelySometimes

Ask your father if he would be big enough to reconcile with your mother's illicit lover? I think he'll understand your position, and back off.

Good luck, OP.

Serenity700

And that illicit lover was his brother...

Last_Friend_6350

I love that OP’s ex fiancé disappears and does crap all for the first two years’ of his twins lives (the hardest period) and then uses being pansexual as an excuse for screwing your brother in a place he knew was deeply personal to you both.

I’m sure your first thought was “I understand completely why that happened now and you’ve earned my total forgiveness, let’s get married, not.

What a shit excuse. Being pansexual doesn’t mean that you’ve no morals or a sense of decency. It doesn’t make their relationships any less monogamous (unless they decide otherwise) than anyone else. If the ex wanted to experiment with his sexuality then just end the engagement, co-parent the babies and move on. He still should have avoided his ex fiancée’s brother like the plague though.

Don’t be forced to reconcile, a betrayal by a sibling will always be a million times hurtful than a partner. Just let your Dad know that you wanted your Mum to have peace before she passed but as much as you love your Mother, that’s too big an ask. Your brother slept at least once with your fiancé while you were pregnant. You wouldn’t have any contact with the ex if you didn’t have children together.

I think it’s amazing you’re co-parenting successfully with the ex fiancé, especially as he thought he could reappear and restart your relationship. I hope you never reconcile with him as some actions can never be forgiven or forgotten.

miyuki_m

I hold grudges it's doesn't make me hurt nor does it give power to my brother. His act although he wasn't alone catapulted me into the worst depression of my life and there is no coming back

I don't call this holding a grudge. I call this seeing your brother for who he is and protecting yourself from someone who knowingly caused you pain by betraying you.

FannishNan

I get where your mom was coming from but she asked the death bed wish of the wrong sibling. It should've been your brother.

In her shoes, if I were her, it would've been 'you chose your dick over your sister's physical and mental health. She may never forgive you and that's understandable but you better spend the rest of your life working to make yourself worthy of that forgiveness'

Because that's what he did. He chose short-term pleasure over your life and the lives of your kids.

That she asked you and not him screams she knew he'd never do it.

Nta.

Ok_Intention3920

She doesn’t care, I promise.

UnfairSpecial819

Sorry but this doesn’t add up. Yes you get the final say as to whether you choose to stop talking with your brother. But your guy was MORE CULPABLE cos he got you pregnant. And if you can get on with your guy for the sake of Children it shows you are willing to compromise for the sake of some type of benefit. So sure don’t speak to your brother if that’s what you want But is it likely cos you are as if subconsciously blaming him for all you’ve been through which is an easy thing to do and its not true. So what he did was wrong and bang out of order and though he wasn’t to blame for what you been through in isolation maybe tell him you hate his actions so bad it makes you sick, share a hi and a bye with him for the sake of your parents and keep him at bay thereafter. All the best

annswertwin

Nta I promised my dying brother something for his peace of mind knowing I had no intention of doing it. He was being unreasonable and trying to control things he shouldn’t have been (his ex wife). My conscience is clear.

grumpy__g

Did your brother even try to apologise?

Did he even try to do anything?

kuanniie

sorry if i missed it, but did your brother ever ask you for forgiveness? or did he explain how it all happened? if he didn’t bother to, why does it even matter?

NTA imo. forgiveness should be at your terms and timing, whether it happens or not. as long as you live in peace with your decision.

SetScary9216

NTA. Your brother betrayed you. Deliberately. He made his choices and showed you with his actions how much he cared about you. He is the issue not you. Also you are a BAMF for everything you've gone through.

911siren

At three months they can totally tell that your twins are identical!

A high risk pregnancy!!!!!

2 preemies!!!!

The father left to find himself but reappeared after 2 years and declared himself pan!!!!

Mom lost her battle with lupus!!! (Fun fact that 90% of people with lupus live normal lifespans).

You didn’t even want to go to the ultrasound that ended up saving your younger twin!!!!!!

Gasp. Gasp. Gasp.

This soap opera writing. Come on.

No_Assumption_2137

Maybe you should do some research! My ultrasound showed cleared as day two babies which led to further investigation whether they were mono-mono, mono-di or di-di. They shared the same placenta so mono for sure but the sacs were hard to see clearly nonetheless the doctor determined my twins were mono-di. Identical twins ran the risk of twin to twin transfusion

His dad kicked him out, he decided to leave for the city but that's what he told me before he left

My mom was in her 50s she had other things going on but the overall COD was lupus related

And yes the one ultrasound I didn't want to go to DID save my child! Why is that so hard to believe??? I wanted to unalive myself!!! I didn't want to leave the house let alone go to appts but I had good people around me constantly reminding me what my doctor said and how he urged me to NEVER miss an appt! I had a friend of friend who did miss one ultrasound the next one she went to find only one heartbeat she had to carry both babies to term delivering one alive another still

Social media has made too many of yall so cynical

joe-lefty500

10d

Never say never. But yeah if ever, it will take time, probably a lot. But wary of holding on to this pain. It just sucks up energy and space in your head. All the best.

GraciousGladiator

Nah.

lapsteelguitar

There is no reason for you to forgive or forget. I realize it was your mother's wish, but it's not yours.

NTA

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Funny_Enthusiasm6976

You have the rest of your life to see what you can do about your mom’s wish. She didn’t mean right away I’m sure.

Nosyneighbours

NTA, im sorry about your mother but you can't force someone to forgive if you know in yourself that that is not how you feel or not what you want. That is not forgiveness.

Julie-Andrews

Sacred spot?

No_Assumption_2137

We live in the country. My parents are boomers not rich or poor in the middle they have a few acres of land and on it was a ranch style house surrounded by trees this spot in particular was big oak tree in those woods that had a big gaping opening at the bottom. It was originally my spot as a child. My family always hosted cookouts I always hated large groups and strangers I would go there nb would bother me mostly bc I was the only crazy one to be out there. I was aware of the dangers snakes being the example but you can smell a snake from a mile away it was rare for me to see one. When I met my ex we got serious I put him on to it and we'd go there to be alone

Julie-Andrews

I see!

gavinkurt

It would be hard to reconcile with him after he did something like that. What he did was so wrong and unforgivable

SLBVX

Not the asshole, but don't blame your dad, his wife died goddamit

potsandpans28

Who cares? She’s dead, she probably doesn’t mind either way. When I’m dead just throw me in the trash

cinnamonnex

NTA — I honestly dislike the idea of “you have to forgive”, I don’t know what kind of bull crap fantasy land that is, but if you’ve wronged me then you’ve shown your true colors and I have every right to say I don’t want you in my life. Not to mention deathbed requests are horrible, they’re the biggest guilt trip imaginable, it’s your choice whether you forgive him, you made your choice clear.

BoundariesForWhat

Ex should be dead to you as well tbh. But with twins, I understand why you havent cut contact. Brother was foul for sure but ex owed you as well

Secret_Double_9239

NTA, while your mom shouldn’t have asked that you said what you could to comfort your mother in her last days.

Fast-Box4076

Lmao what a load of garbage

firefox1792

NTAH

Longjumping-Pick-706

NTA

Is he even remorseful? Has he done any of the work to regain your trust? What he did and the damage he caused is severe. I don’t blame you at all and it’s unfair of either of your parents to ask this of you. Especially if your brother has done nothing to try and repair your relationship. This is not on you at all.

Congrats on your beautiful twins! 🩷

bookreader-123

Nah NTA betray like that is something I also emailed nt forgive and forget no matter if you are family or not. People should stop asking others to forgive it's a shitty thing to do and die to your mom dying you did good by telling her you would but NTA for not doing it. You just told her what she wanted to hear in her last moments

CaptainBaoBao

Never forgive, never forget.

They destroyed your family, your couple, your parenthood, your future, your health, and your mental.

You will reconciliate after his funeral. And make the sperm donor pay.

RemarkableArticle970

Life is for the living. Go on with your life and honor your mom in other ways. You already honored her when it really counted by not making her choose sides.

Ginboy5

I think you did the right thing by ending the relationship with both of them. Sorry but they both crossed a line you can’t uncross. I understand where your parents are coming from but they did not have this happen to them.

mikaylers

Has your brother ever apologized or tried to reconcile? It doesnt sound like you should be the one to reach out unless its bothering you

Dontfeedthebears

NTA. You don’t owe your brother, nor your ex any kindness or forgiveness. Your mom is not here to be upset about you all reconciling. Anyone pushing it is doing that for their own selfish reasons. They betrayed you in your most vulnerable, while you were growing 2 of your partner’s babies.

It’s good you can co-parent. But don’t feel obligated to raise a finger more.

reetahroo

You can forgive your brother but refuse to ever have him in your life. He’s a relative but not family. Forgiveness is for you but why have toxic people around that you can’t trust? Life is too short

MajorAd2679

NTA

What your brother and ex did is unforgivable.

I understand you saying a white lie to appease your mum before she passed. You did it out of love.

Don’t let your dad guilt trip you.

hammtronic

He had to come out to you three years after you caught him with your brother? You must have been very surprised

No_Bumblebee2085

I feel like with the identity being specifically pansexual, it’s possible he didn’t know what that was in 2014, but by 2017 had found that it described him. For example, the Schitt’s Creek episode that discusses pansexuality was in 2016. I feel like that brought that identity into the public eye in a way.

Does not excuse his actions in any way though.

Scared_of_the_KGB

Sorry kid. That’s super shitty. Of everyone. But not you. You’ve had a bum rap from the go.

You do not have to do anything for anybody ever. Your mental health is the most important thing, without that you aren’t there for the kids. Or yourself. Or anybody.

I mean this in the nicest possible way: she’s dead and what she thinks doesn’t matter anymore. Go live your happiest healthiest life without people who hurt you.

You have nothing to be guilty for.

Crafty_Special_7052

NTA ignore anyone telling you to forgive your brother. What he did was a major betrayal, it’s already bad enough that he hooked up with your now ex fiance but it’s even worse that he did this knowing you were pregnant with twins! I could never forgive that. And your ex should have communicated with you about being confused with his sexuality. If he did the right thing maybe then y’all could have taken a break while he figured things out then got back together but he didn’t. And even if he was confused out of all the people in world to cheat with he had to pick your brother. Both are AHs

selenelunamoon

Do we know if her brother and the ex ever hooked up again too?

bontemp420

NTA. Just no. Don't even question it. You will spend a lot of time hoping he is someone new. He's still the same guy.

Difficult_Process_88

NTA I’d never be able to forgive my brother or my fiance if it was me. That was a bs request of your mom. I want to know how a parent could watch a child go through so much hell caused by another one of their children and then make such a request. Was your brother you mother’s golden child?

OpportunityCalm6825

NTA. Distant yourself from toxicity. Don't be manipulated. Unless you yourself wanted it.

S_137

Say : I will forgive you, but don't come near me or my family ever again

tcrhs

Some things are just too unforgivable. Your brother cheating with your fiancee while you were pregnant falls in that category, in my opinion.

BubblyRip1630

NTA

Pristine_Serve5979

Does your brother know about her dying wish? Has he tried to reach out to you and apologize?

Brave_anonymous1

NTA. Tell him that you said anything your mom wanted to hear to make her feel better. Wouldn't he do the same?

Then ask him what brother he is talking about? Your elder brother died in a horrible accident at the age of 21.

Ahkine

I'm a very harsh person by nature never forgive never forget.

When my grandmother was on her death bed she apologised to me becuase she wasn't in my life she wasn't there in my darkest days. I said don't worry about it. I never forgave her and I felt nothing when she died.

But the best advice i can give is holding a vendetta is a weakness as an open mind can unlock many doors.

Right now your still in pain from the betrayal of two people you loved but by holding onto it your not healing your picking at a wound keeping it fresh. Time heals all wounds but the scars will remain learn from these scars embrace them let them make you stronger you may never have the connection you once had but it will be a step for you.

Good luck stranger.

ohfucknotthisagain

Your mom's request was based on ignorance and possibly lies.

Explain to your father what happened, if he doesn't already know.

He has to live with a broken family. It might be easier for him, and it might convince him to leave you alone.

sp0rkah0lic

NTA, But I would point out to you that everyone involved in this situation was incredibly young for the seriousness and weight of the responsibility. 19, 21, these are not ages where your brain is even fully formed yet.

Nobody is as bad as the worst thing they've ever done. Now if your brother is generally an immoral/unethical person and this is the kind of stuff he would normally do, yes. Keep him out of your life. Not necessarily because of a grudge but because who needs that kind of drama?

But if he is sorry. If he wants to make amends with you. He is your family. Not today and not tomorrow and not because your mom said so but at some point. You might consider allowing for the possibility of him to have changed enough, learned from his mistake, become a better person.

Also, holding a grudge is like swallowing poison and expecting someone else to die about it. It harms you. Even if you never speak to him again, even if there's no further interaction with him for the rest of your life, it would benefit you to work your way towards an emotional and mental place where you can forgive him.

Forgiveness doesn't mean contact and it certainly doesn't mean automatically allowing the other person back into your life. It just means you stop carrying the burden of all that anger. Which is emotionally much more healthy.

For the record, that's a massive betrayal though. I'm sorry that happened to you.

Agitated_Zucchini_82

NTA. You don’t have to forgive your brother. He knew full well what he was doing but didn’t respect you or your relationship with your kids’ father. I’m sorry but your mother resorted to emotional blackmail on her death bed. I’m sure she knows the error of her ways now that she has a better perspective in spirit. If your brother doesn’t come to you like a man and apologize, don’t give him a second thought. He doesn’t deserve it and it shouldn’t have been up to your mom to make it easy for him. He’s not sorry for how he hurt you, so why would you want to forgive him?

TiaToriX

OP, I understand that lots of people think forgive and forget is important. But I don’t agree that you have to do either, especially when the person who wronged you isn’t remorseful, hasn’t made amends and hasn’t demonstrated that they want you to be forgiven.

I think that a better way to look at forgiveness is to come to a place of peace with a bad situation where you were hurt, it can’t be undone, and there is not a way to make it better. It just is, you find peace in no longer focusing your time/energy on it, and find a way to go on to a better life. You do this for yourself, for your wellbeing, and you can do this without involving the person who hurt you.

North_Risk3803

NTA. Continue going NC it’s one thing for your partner to cheat on you (not saying it’s right) but your own flesh and blood?? There’s absolutely no coming back from that. The only ones to blame here is your brother and ex. They made their bed now they have to lay in it

MrsJingles0729

NTA - They nearly killed you once. Don't give either of them another chance. Your ex is a selfish coward who abandoned his children. You'll find someone better, I promise.

[deleted]

I am for forgiving but here is my story.

My friend slept with a girl I was in love with. It broke my heart and I was severely depressed. It wasn't completely on him as I allowed it to happen.

I forgive after they broke up. We hung out for a while and became friends again.

Later I got a girlfriend and it became very clear he was pursuing her. I was shocked but it was extremely obvious. I wrote him off after that and had no regrets since.

It's hard to imagine the people won't learn from some fuck ups, and will take obvious actions to screw up your life.

Anyway, if your babys dad and your brother screwing again won't bother you then definitely forgive him. If it would bother you a lot then definitely don't.

He is family and as long as you date a straight guy, this won't happen again. However, he also better not hit on anyone you date. Your call. There is no substitute for family though and people make mistakes. He better be very remorceful though. I promise you it's only redditors who don't make mistakes. Keep in mind he was young at the time. I consistently see redditors talk and act like they are don't make mistakes. Redditors will also condemn someone to an eternity in hell for a small offense. I reference this only so you know who you are getting your advice from.

Same-Entry8035

I don’t think I’d ever be able to get that picture out of my head. NTA

MinisterOfFitness

NTA. I mean worst case your mother is angry when you meet in hell. I’d take my chances.

You owe your brother fuck all.

Abject_Jump9617

Nope. Don't do it if you are not ready. My sibling would be dead to me too if they ever did something like that. Because clearly they couldn't give a crap about my feelings. I don't need people I cannot trust in my life.

sleepyauntie

NTA. Only the victim of a trauma gets to decide if or when they want to reconcile. Everyone else that can't respect that is just pushing for a reconciliation for their own comfort and convenience.

Traditional-Total114

NTA

NoSpare3128

NTA. Sorry, but she’s dead. You’re alive. You get to make the decisions you want to make for who will be in your life and who won’t. The end.

Side_Hole1987

NTA

htid1984

Nta your mum had no right to ask that of you and it was very unfair of her to do so. What your brother done is absolutely disgusting and he knew it would hurt you, he obviously knew he was destroying your relationship and your children's family before they were even born. He neither deserves your love or your forgiveness.

lifevisions

You are incredibly beautiful towards your parents by not disclosing it all, however, that is BiG in terms of generosity, as for reconciliation?? NO —you have done enough !!! It is understandable your feelings…please allow yourself the peace of forgiveness and move on. Don’t allow your heart to be hardened!!

Ill-Aioli3834

NTA I’m sorry this happened to you

MsCantankerous

I would be thanking your brother - he did you a favor.

Hothoofer53

Yta if you can forgive your cheating fiancé and be Cordial and for partnering you should be able to forgive your brother and be cordial to him to only fair. We all make mistakes

Foreign-Yesterday-89

Having identical twins does not cause any extra complications. Carrying twins can cause complications. But they are not going to know they are identical until after they are born. I’m calling BS

1KirstV

Everyone involved were super young when this happened. It’s horrible, yes. But wouldn’t you rather know than find out 10 years later? I say brother did you a favor.

Reaper1876

-1

NTA. Why is it you basically forgave the baby daddy? It takes 2 to tango. I believe it should be both out of your life.

Ginger630

She had his kids. Legally, she can’t keep him away unless he was a danger to her or them.

No_Assumption_2137

Correct. I haven't forgiven him. I didn't take him back.

TranslatorWaste7011

-1

Wait parents were there to diffuse the situation, BUT THEN on the dying wish of the mom OP couldn’t tell her why she won’t forgive her brother.

You need to work on your story line OP

No_Assumption_2137

They heard the commotion me screaming, the both of them yelling to me "Desi stop! The babies" over and over again. At that time evb treated me like a glass slipper even as I two pieced my ex and started swinging on my brother. I was fighting them while they were failing to get me to stop. My dad swooped in like superman grabbed me, my mom took my brother away my ex took off

Ginger630

I think she meant she couldn’t say no to her mom while she was dying.

No_Assumption_2137

Thank you

cgm824

Please tell me his and your brother aren’t still together, I hope he doesn’t have access to your kids through your ex!

Apart-Tip8872

I read it as she wouldn't tell her mom that she wouldn't forgive her brother

Queen_Red01

Let’s be for honest, OP mom (and dad) was selfish for even asking that of her KNOWING why she isn’t on speaking terms with her brother. He did something crappy and shouldn’t be forgive ever and I stand on that.

Smoke__Frog

-5

Why are you taking to your ex but not your brother?

They are both scum right? Why not only talk to your ex through the lawyers then?

Shouldn’t you hate both of them? And let me guess, for those two years you didn’t sue for child support?

No_Assumption_2137

I have a big family and his family was also heavily involved esp after the fallout of all that but no he's never been on child support. When he came back we spoke through our parents, lawyers were only involved bc he wanted to establish custody we agreed on joint custody. Everything was put in the custody order which has worked out, we have very limited communication but isn't it obvious I'd have to speak to him on occasion being that we share MINOR children???

Smoke__Frog

-1

I knew you never got child support lol.

No_Assumption_2137

Never needed it

Smoke__Frog

Doesn’t matter, the money is legally owed to your kid. It’s his money, not yours.

Just trying to show how hypocritical you are.

You I’ve out your brother but let your ex slide on child support, then they are both scum.

No_Assumption_2137

Slide? I had a job, my girls had 4 active grandparents they didn't want for nothing! I was more focused on making sure they survived infancy bc preemies were higher risk for SIDS plus they had therapy that's how they caught the sensory disorders and hypotonia. My girls weren't hitting their milestones. The only thing I pursued was the best care for my girls all while putting myself together. The only people I had contact with were my parents, his, doctors, specialist and therapist! I didn't gaf about them!

Pretty_Goblin11

-4

I mean if you can forgive the man who impregnated you, cheated on you while pregnant and betrayed you and abandoned you and your kids for 2 years why can’t you forgive your brother? I wouldn’t have anything to do with either of them .

No_Assumption_2137

I couldn't deny my children a dad esp when he went to court to establish paternity. I haven't forgiven him, we have limited communication.

Pretty_Goblin11

After being gone for two years that’s legal abandonment where I live, you could have cut him off. If he’s a good dad ok I guess but frankly he sounds selfish and mentally unwell.

Moemoe5

I’m most states even after abandonment, a parent can come back and establish visitation. The courts feel a child will benefit from a relationship with both parents whether that parent was trash or not to their partner. The relationship is about the child, not the parent and their breakup issues.

Bunnawhat13

-2

INFO- Why have you forgiven the father of your children and not your brother? The father of your children was in a relationship with you, you were pregnant, and he was out there hooking up. He abandoned you and the twins for two years and it’s all cool? I mean you do you and I am all about cutting toxic people out of your life but why cut one toxic person and keep the Uber toxic person around?

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