theathletic.com/5477052/2024/05/07/david-moyes-exit-west-ham-premier-league/
Farewell, David Moyes - you deserved a classier exit from West Ham
Yea, the narrative that West Ham fans don’t appreciate Moyes just isn’t true. 99% of us already regard him as a legend and our best manager in the modern era. I feel like the idea that we don’t comes from a mix of reactionary comments on social media, and the fact that people don’t watch us when we aren’t playing against them.
We all know he’s given us a couple of our best seasons ever. The fans loved him, will always respect what he did for us, and the send off this weekend will show as much. But it was also time to move on.
Completely agree. I have massive respect for him.
I've thought Moyes should have left a long time ago but I'll be there on Saturday to give the man a deserved send off and show my appreciation.
There's no class at West Ham while the clown owner is around.
I'll be forever grateful for what Moyes has achieved and in a few years we'll look fondly at all he gave us but right now it's time. The squad is in a total state of disrepair.
Happy cake day!
Let’s hope his team crush it on Saturday to give him a proper send off!
I've got some bad news for you
Don’t tell me West Ham are Luton fans too
I’m sure fans of other clubs would be over the moon if they sold their bench and didn’t bring anyone in.
Who was the driving force behind Kalvin Phillips?
Yeah the one and only player he wanted. Who turned out to be the worst signing of the decade.
Every other week they seem to be taking a battering lately, not getting sacked and letting him leave at the end of his contract is West Ham showing some class.
Thank you.
This.
Yet another thread full up with comments from the ‘be careful what you wish for mob’.
Fellow Hammers, do yourselves a favour and save your breathe.
I'm not a West Ham and will admit to being a filthy Big-6 enjoyer, but even I thought the narrative this season by neutrals about West Ham was weird.
A couple months back it was 'Why are they complaining, they're still in the European spots', whilst ignoring the fact West Ham were still slipping down the table
Now thats been conveniently forgotten about as West Ham have slipped even further, and its 'Why are West Ham fans complaining, they won a European title last season?' whilst also ignoring the teams fairly poor form in the prem that saw them comfortably bottom half foe most of it
It's like this weird meta-narrative that West Ham won a third-tier European trophy, and therefore their fans can't complain about the games they watch week in, week out
Literally almost got relegated the same season we won a European Trophy. Felt great ngl, but our Prem form is just woeful
Not really the main theme of the narrative, it’s more; look at the achievements during his tenure, then compare that to any West Ham manager in the PL era.. Moyes is statistically the best boss the Hammers have had, for context number 2 is Alan Pardew…
Leaving like this, with shrivelled dignity, just leaves a very sour taste; particularly when he’s been the best hammers manager (according to stats) for a solid 30 years. Very much so Deja vu moment akin to the Wenger out era, feel the process needs to be trusted a little longer. Genuinely believe without European football next season, assuming Bowen, kudus and paqueta stay; with a few defensive additions(RB & CB), 6/7th would’ve been very much on the cards.
Excited for lopetegui’s brand of play to be even worse to watch than Moyesy’s occasional dross, the ‘West Ham Way’ wallies will be out in force on 606.. what a treat lol
Yeah not going to even try to comment, waste of time. We’re just gonna have to put up with it for a few weeks because this is how it looks to anyone who doesn’t really take an interest in what’s going on at the club.
Don't be daft, you should be giving him a new contract, really. It's the right thing to do.
Despite the standard of football you're playing.
Despite his bizarre, negative tactics.
Despite appalling form.
Despite the fact he isnt getting the best out of the squad.
West Ham fans should feel so lucky and grateful to him for winning a third tier European trophy that they should let Moyes continue some clearly awful trends, and then have him leave like most managers do, after a shameful run of defeats and an acrimonious dressing room fallout. Then, we enlightened neutrals can chase the inevitable narrative that he should have left on a high after last season.
Signed, A bunch of neutrals who would never take him at their club.
Am I doing it right?
Reminds me of Alan Pardew, we all hated him, but we're told the same thing as you guys
Steve Bruce for you as well
Hows the bacon did you say?
That we were paid a sizable sum for a guy that so many wanted sacked is still mind-boggling
And yet the media loved to have a dig at you for loving Benitez too much.
yeah that was fun times. We're getting told now that howe isnt good enough for our ambition at the moment. Its great the media telling us what to like and not like.
I'm a City fan, but well used to the unwanted, unrequested wisdom of the neutral.
The "be careful what you wish for" line always makes me laugh. Like you should just be happy with what you have got, and ignore the evidence you see week on week.
Wasn’t Pardew replaced by Carver, then McClaren?
yup, had a massive list of stellar managers in our time....
Yup. Dont see many of them talking about snatching up moyes to be their next manager. Becomes very telling of others real feelings then.
You can only take 87 min substitutions of a defender on for a forward when up one and immediately giving up pressure and conceding for so long
If it's any help, I can understand it.
Winning your first silverware for decades was a huge achievement and I'm sure pretty much every Hammers fan absolutely loved it. But it's not like you're winning trophies every year so that victory only goes so far.
And from what I've seen of West Ham recently, the football itself is mostly pretty dull. Watching a side bore their way to yet another mid-table finish isn't something that really gets the heart racing, and there's more than enough evidence from Moyes's career to tell you it's never going to get prettier. It's not like he's desperately waiting for a few flair players to unleash his inner Brazil.
You might regret it in a few years if you make some bad choices and end up getting relegated. But it's far more likely that you'll end up competing in roughly the same sort of way - sometimes pushing for Europe, sometimes challenging for a cup - but with some entertaining football to enjoy as well.
Along with half the Prem, there's some Forest fans asking whether we should replace Nuno with Moyes. But while I'm not exactly sold on Nuno yet, I've seen enough of what he did at Wolves, and the occasional performance this season, to know that he at least wants to play attractive football even if he's rarely achieved it with us yet.
All I can say is, be careful what you wish for.
I hear that at least half the premier league are scrambling to hire him, such is the brilliance of his performance.
I think he’ll be in a job by December at the latest
It depends who leaked the talks with Amorim. By all accounts it was from his camp trying to get Liverpool interested. West Ham can’t do much about that.
Surely a club has the right to look for a new manager if the encumbent has an expiring contract.
Moyes knows this too so him getting his usual journo mates to publish articles against the club is just as disrespectful.
Moyes has said himself he's had a contract sitting on his desk for some time that he's refusing to sign.
exactly.
same people wouldve been moaning if he flounced off in the summer and we hired someone in a rush too
This is a case of ‘thanks for everything, wish you well’.
Why would hammers want to keep him when they’re clearly dropping off?
Give him another few years deal, to have to pay out his contract to get rid of him makes no sense.
End of his cycle and I’m sure hammers loved their European trophy.
Moyes says in February I have a contract on the table I'm not sure if I will sign it.
We look for new manager just before the end of the season after a dreadful run of form and everyone says it's classless.
I'm sure he will find another job every opposition supporter seems to love him and thinks he is amazing I'm sure they will be ecstatic with him the whole time he is there.
Really don’t know what the owners think lopetegui is gonna achieve but I would argue there’s definitely talent in the squad, just built to play a very specific way which I don’t think suits him at all
Media attention. That's what he'll get you. Mainly bad pressure but still. He's dull and defensive but it's been effective elsewhere.
You'd also assume that once they feel they have a manager that has a future with the club, they'll be more open to investing in areas of the squad that clearly need it.
Problem is West Ham can’t spend money well, all their good signings are usually free or cheaper players, when they spend bigger it usually flops bad
wtf are you on about? thats outdated info.
just recently weve brought in some fantastic players.
city were sniffing around paqueta for 80m, kudus and alvarez have been great signings, bowen is looking like a potential club legend.
of course it doesnt always work out, and weve struggled with strikers in the moyes era because of how weve been set up, but to say were spending money badly atm is just plain wrong
Both kudus and paqueta were signed for good value (in the current market) after the top clubs decided not to go for them, then West Ham got them much cheaper than had been discussed before, but even then they feel like rate successes compared to great short term veteran signings like Dawson or championship gems like Antonio and Bowen
i have no idea what youre trying to say.
so we did good deals on the new set of players, and we did good deals on championship players and one veteran.
if you look at our starting 11:
areola - played brilliantly and arguably one of the reasons were as high up the league as we are
coufal - great cheap signing on almost no wages
mavro/aguerd - arguably overspent here but both could be great in the right side
zouma - played well for us but was expensive and legs seem gone
emerson - been great for us this season
alvarez - unbelievable signing, could be POTS in his 1st year
JWP - bang average, but soton fans reckon he should be great - lets see what he does under a better manager.
paqueta - dont think weve won a game without him. looking like a big money move on the cards
soucek - cost almost nothing and scored some clutch goals for us
kudus - unbelievable signing, could be POTS in his 1st year
bowen - been brilliant value and is our top scorer this season. already had our moneysworth and then some
antonio - clubs record PL scorer signed for 7m and had 7 years service out of him.
id say almost nothing there is money wasted.
benrahma out on loan pending sale. probably lose money on him, but he came from the championship and he scored the 1st goal in our ECL final match.
scamacca, haller can absolutely be seen as failed transfers - think we took a short loss on each but they have gone on to be great - but im not sure i can think of someone else in the past 5 years thats been a real flop in the transfer market.
Plus we now have a DoF to try and minimize mistakes like we previously made.
Probably haven’t explained my point well but pretty much under moyes West Ham have been very shrewd but it’s served them very well, I rate the team highly atm, but I think if lopetegui comes in and gets a huge ‘backing’ it’s going to go back to haller, scamacca, kind of players who will be expensive failures, be much better keeping with what’s worked so far and looking for solid reliable lads and only pouncing on bigger players when it’s a can’t miss opportunity like what parqueta and co were at the price they signed
Yeah, spending the Rice money on JWP, Alvarez, and Kudus has been such a waste financially. Not to mention the other major recruitments of Paqueta, Bowen, Soucek, Coufal, Emerson, Areola, and our other major signings of the past few seasons. Sarcasm aside, the only major flops of late have been Haller and Scamacca.
This is such a bad take.
Check out our last 20 signings.
Not saying West Ham make bad transfers, I’m saying when they go big it tends to backfire, only two of the last 20 signings were for over 40m, for an English team playing in Europe that’s not a lot but it’s a method that’s served them much better than when they blew what at the time was quite big money on random bigger names like scamacca, Haller, Anderson
I feel like West Ham fans will, over the course of the next 5-10 years, look back on the Moyes era and realise they didn't know how good they had it
Nah we know, it’s just that it’s come to a natural end
The highs were high but the lows are far too frequent.
Look at any underlying stats, any attempt to quantify the game and how results pan out the way they do, and West Ham and Manchester United are both down there as the worst of the 17 teams who weren't promoted to the league this season. It's only quality in both boxes and poor finishing by opponents that has seen you in contention for the European places.
The puff pieces like this focus on the heady European nights and the odd brilliant performance, but they ignore the all-too-frequent non-performances against beatable teams.
Fuck me, it’s a neutral who get it.
The underlying stats this year are grim. We won a lot games through luck and the brilliance of our front at the start of the season, our performances haven’t changed but we are now getting the results our performances deserve.
I was gonna say, first time I've seen someone outside our sub actually understand
I feel as though last season in the league we were so incredibly unlucky especially first half. This year we’ve had a fair few luck my goals or individual brilliance, but we did get fucked over by VAR like 5 games straight for a bit there
Yup solid 10 points worth of dodgy calls in feb and mar. Would put us 1 point off 5th. Still cant get over that volleyball call. Was an absurd stretch with VAR.
Let’s not forget, we were bailed out last season by like 3 consecutive no call handballs - like that soucek one against Chelsea haha. It seems like the incompetence of the officiating is not discriminatory - it’ll eventually balance out
Exactly this! Compare our two games against Arsenal in the league, we won 2-0 away and lost 6-0 at home but in reality they were exactly the same game, in the game we won they hit the post twice, Areola made three or four magnificent saves, Jesus missed some absolute sitters when it was harder to miss and somehow on our rare attacks we managed to score.
Both of those games we could have conceded 6 and that’s summed up a lot of our time under Moyes, relies on the opposition missing, our goalie playing a blinder and the occasional bit of brilliance on the attack. When it works they call him a tactical genius, when it doesn’t… well… 6-0!
I viewed it as like eating a chicken that looks good but is pink on the inside.
Anyone who hears you complaining about being sick will tell you to stop and eat, but they aren’t the ones seeing the pink and feeling sick the next day
"It's only quality in both boxes and poor finishing by opponents that has seen you in contention for the European places."
Isn't that just how football works?
I feel so bad for you guys having to deal with people who don’t watch West Ham weekly telling you how your club should operate.
Less than 12 months after winning a European trophy? I don't agree
It's been a good run, the best in my time certainly. I never expected to see West Ham lift a European trophy with an academy graduate as captain.
But this managerial cycle is simply at an (ugly) end. The squad isn't playing for Moyes. There's infighting within the Club leadership that's become very open. The squad is aged and hasn't been refreshed. Moyes' tactics and decision making are often opposed with more generally accepted modern methods - not a big deal when you are winning, but can make you look foolish when you're losing. And we are losing right now.
Since December, here are some of our losses:
5-0 to Fulham
5-1 to Liverpool
1-0 to Bristol City
3-0 to Man U
0-6 to Arsenal
2-0 to Forest
4-3 to Newcastle after being up 0-3
5-2 to Palace
5-0 to Chelsea
It's only during these past 6 months I've come to believe it's time for a change. But it has been a hard 6 months...
4-3 to Newcastle after being up 0-3
*up 1-3
As a Evertonian I agree.
It’s come to an end though.
What exactly has been classless about this? Sadly nothing stays private in football, transfers and manager moves are known about way before they become official and with a managers contract expiring we've lined up a new manager, there's a couple of weeks left in the season, surely it's best to have a manager in place for the full summer window!
And if you mean classless from the fans, well we're the ones paying to watch the most dire football, paying to watch us ship five goals FOUR times this season, not to mention six to Arsenal and a number of four and three goal defeats too, all whilst playing mind-numbing 'defensive' football when we can't defend!
No one is going to forget that we won our first trophy in decades but we were in a relegation battle last year too, were dire for six months before that as well and heading back towards the bottom half of the table this season.
I really don't get why so many fans of other teams are obsessed with telling us in multiple posts every day what we should and shouldn't be grateful for. If you don't pay to watch all of our games then you really have no right to comment.
Agreed, he’s got to see out his contract in relative peace despite our woeful league form. Amorim was obviously the source of the leak of the meeting with him and not us, so not entirely sure what we’ve done wrong.
Agreed, he’s got to see out his contract in relative peace despite our woeful league form. Amorim was obviously the source of the leak of the meeting with him and not us, so not entirely sure what we’ve done wrong.
Absolutely bang on!
Moyes is an analog man in a digital world
Credit for what he's done at West Ham but this is the right move. Clubs was modern managers who can play good, front-foot football and moyes is not that man
His contract is expiring and the club has opted not to renew it. As part of the process the club have spoken to other managers. There's literally nothing 'unclassy' about that; it's just normal business.
Let's be real though, all I have seen for months is people glazing Moyes and telling West Ham fans how lucky and ungrateful they are. Well luckily for you he's on the market now. I expect everyone with their raging Moyes hard-ons will be campaigning their owners to sign him up. Liverpool fans? United fans? You guys need new managers right? Enjoy.
The reality is, as I look down the premier league table, I can't see a non-relegated team that would be interested in him. Given he doesn't know how to setup a team to attack I'm not even sure they'd want him if they plan to win the championship and bounce back up.
Agreed. It's pretty unusual that a manager comes to the end of his contract. Most are sacked or quit. But the club is being treated like it would be better if they fired him 2 months ago.
I'm honestly bemused by the whole circus around this very simple end of contract situation.
For balance, as a Sunderland fan he is one of the worst managers in our recent history, easily the most disliked, threw the towel in literally 2 games into the season and spent the next 36 games in self preservation mode telling everyone how nothing could possibly be his fault. Fuck him.
Although admittedly he has done well overall at West Ham.
he hasnt changed.
after the tonkings this season he gives it "the buck stops with me........but the players let us down!"
guy is a complete cunt.
Don't think I've ever disliked a manager more than I did with Moyes. Clearly we had massive financial issues and were a basket case behind the scenes, but the previous season Allardyce turned us around, got us playing quite exciting football but also very difficult to beat. We only lost 4 of the final 19 games (to you, Man City, Spurs and Leicester when they won the league), had a well organised team and were the 7th best form team throughout the second half of the season. He fucked off for England but all we needed was someone to steer the ship and could have easily kicked on and finished comfortably mid table. Enter Moyes...
We lost our opening two games under Moyes but played fairly well, most managers would come out with the usual spiel of focusing on the positives, early days etc. Not Moyes. He declared we were in a relegation battle and weren't good enough to stay up! It was reported afterwards that the players nicknamed him the mood hoover because he sucked the life out of everything.
Once it became obvious in November/December that we were going down he went into self preservation mode. Every press conference was about how great he was at Everton, how shit we were and how he was used to managing top class players at Everton and Man United and couldn't possibly be expected to keep us up. He heavily implied that he was just doing us a favour because he needed a job and wouldn't have normally stooped so low. He also filled the team with the Everton class of 2007 - Anichebe, Gibson, Lescott, Pienaar - all of whom could barely walk nevermind run - plus Oviedo. Pienaar said afterwards it was because he'd pissed the players off that much and they all fucking hated him so he brought in the old guard who he'd managed before to be his spies in the dressing room.
You'll get hammered by his mates in the media for letting him go.
The manager and chairman both releasing a statement on the same day, thus ensuring Moyes gets a standing ovation after his last home game on Saturday? Classless is firing the manager 10 minutes after a game and not letting him travel home on the team bus.
I feel like I’m living in the fucking Twilight Zone with the way people talk about Moyes. He’s done a great job in the past, yes. But people talk as if we weren’t in a relegation battle for 35 games last season after spending close to 200 million. Or that this season we’ve been playing terrible, defensive football, but have still managed to concede the most goals ever in a premier league season with two games to play.
Three seasons in Europe, a cup, and two top 7 finishes sounds amazing. It was amazing, but it didn’t tell the full story. The reality is we’ve been shit in the league for going on two years. Results are shit, the football is dire, and the squad is a fucking shambles. The first two years were great. Last season was a nightmare but whatever, he won us a European trophy so I’ll always love him for that. But it’s time.
If you think Moyes is so great, petition your club to snap him up.
Absolutely. Every Word.
Thank you Moyes. But time to move on. ⚒️
Nothing West Ham do is classy these days. The owners are clueless and lets not forget the protests against them in recent seasons. David Moyes got us our first trophy in 43 years. While I agree its time to move on, there is a way to go about it. He deserves better
What I don’t understand is why didn’t Moyes quit when they won the Conference League last season?
Finish on a high, and with a classier exit?
And reputationally he’d never be in a better position for a new job, or retire knowing the culmination of his managerial career was delivering silverware to a club for first time in aeons
That was honestly my hope last season. While the Conference League was great and the best moment I’ve had as a fan, it covered up a bad season in the Prem. Going out on that high would’ve been better for everyone.
Well, that’s not really how contractual agreements work
There could have been an agreement. Would have made sense for both parties but fair point
🫡
I agree that we’ve handled this in a classless way, as you would expect from a board with Sullivan and Brady on it.
It was time for him to go though. He did good things for us but his limitations have been thoroughly revealed. There’s only so long we can go on with a tiny, ageing squad and prehistoric tactics and a manager who is too set in his ways to change either.
I’m unconvinced by Lopetegui personally, but if at least we have acted decisively to appoint a new manager who is ready to go as soon as the transfer window opens that is a definite positive and one we couldn’t easily achieved without a certain amount of disrespect to Moyes.
If he had left after last season, it would have been a much happier situation.
Agree. He probably would have if hadn’t been for the ECL.
I think regardless of whether people thing Moyes should have stayed or was rightfully let go, replacing him with Lopetegui is just strange. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but at the moment I wouldn't be shocked to see him only last one season.
Moyes and West Ham have grown apart. Both will leave the relationship with an enhanced reputation and the prospect of exciting things on the horizon.
He can have a classier exit next time he leaves West Ham.
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It feels like the end of a cycle with the club now out of European contention for the following season and probably needing a refresh of the squad. I can totally understand wanting a new manager and at least Moyes gets a dignified goodbye instead of a mid-season sacking.
I sympathise with West Ham fans with our whole Gary O'Neil situation at the beginning of the season.
We should be grateful for what he’s done here and most of us are but it’s come to an end. Results have fallen off and with tension between him and Steidten someone had to be chosen.
West Ham and class in same sentence!? Lol naaaa. They actually think they are better than Moyes... its hilarious. I bet they fighting relegation next year and they will deserve it
Thing is Roshane from the athletic has been fairly scathing about Moyes. Pot calling kettle black
His contract was up and the club didn't offer him a new one or he didn't sign the one offered. How is that wrong?
We really haven’t been anywhere near as good under Moyes as people now seem to be suggesting. Where were you lot at the weekend after yet another drilling? Yes we won a trophy but look at the teams in the running to win that same trophy this year - was it that much of a result?
“You deserved a classier exit” the season hasn’t even fucking ended let us finish MW38 before we send Moyesy into the sunset
The problem is despite the flashy stadium and London club status, West Ham are, and will continue to be, a solid mid-table side whilst Sullivan is still at the helm.
Lopetegui won't achieve anything that Moyes couldn't have.
It takes a major sea change of ownership or investment to break the glass ceiling (see Newcastle and Villa)... The harsh realities of modern, money-driven PL football unfortunately.
I'm not Lopetegui's biggest fan but he is an upgrade on Moyes (from a career perspective), time will tell if it works out though.
Villa have only really elevated themselves the last 1.5 seasons and this is heavily due to a new manager, a lot of the players are the same from when you had Gerrard (absolute disasterclass in management).
What are West Ham’s realistic expectations? Because 9th in the Premier League seems close to their ceiling for me.
I suppose any decision like this lives or dies on what comes next. Having seen Marcelo Bielsa sacked and replaced with Jesse Marsch I can tell you it gets ugly very quickly.
I love Moyes for what he’s done, but we’ve been in a dangerous downwards spiral for some time now. Our form this year has been literal relegation form. We’ve been saved by brilliant performances from the likes of Bowen and Paqueta in games we did not deserve to win.
I have an incredible respect for Moyes, but I think this is best. If he goes now he leaves on a reasonable note, rather than being outright sacked for relegation form.
We’ve shipped 5 goals in I think 4 games in the last couple of months, our squad is being rapidly depleted with almost no reinforcements, we need a change imminently.
Also, everyone is assuming the club wanted him to go, when it could very easily have been a mutual decision? He’s at the end of his contract, he’s not being sacked.
Top eight, a decent run at the cups, entertaining, enjoyable football, development of young players.
West Ham demanding top 8 minimum is mad.
It’s not a demand or a minimum though, you asked for a realistic expectation and that’s absolutely a valid one
Why is it ‘mad’ for the team with the 7th biggest turnover, 8th biggest wage bill and 8th biggest net transfer spend to expect to finish in the top 8?
Not mad to expect it now and then, to literally demand it and sack any manager that doesn’t achieve it is. The reality is these things take years to come to fruition and money spent one year will not translate to results that year. West Ham are historically a team of the lower half of the top tier. Now you can push beyond that, but in a world where Newcastle, Man City, Spurs are all able to spend well above your even most ambitious outlay you are looking at being in a different league. That’s just the reality of it and sometimes like Brighton or Wolves you’ll have good seasons where coaching and shrewd business breaches that - but over 10 seasons that will happen twice at best. West Ham winning a European trophy is the sort of result you simply couldn’t dream about were the Premier League not bloated with money. Accept you are beneficiaries of that and that steadily becoming a guaranteed Premier League team is success.
Fans would be more forgiving of league position if we were seeing entertaining, enterprising football and watching young players being developed. If you don’t have either of those things it becomes purely a results game and the results have not been there.
The league positions are a bit misleading because the reality is that we had one good season (20/21) and we started the next season well too. Since Christmas 2021 we have been poor apart from a run at the start of this season (which had a fair bit of good luck involved in it). The second half of this season has been dire.
Use of the word ‘demand’ is a bit strong. Also Moyes isn’t being sacked.
Personally I’d be happy with mid table and a proper go at the cups - in an attacking/progressive way (christ, it can’t get much more defensive than it has been… packed in my season ticket last year as the football was boring)
Well, we sold our home under the promise of top 8 football, aka European football.
That’s why we’re all a bit angry and expect more. I’m okay with us being a bit shit, but if we’re going to be shit I’d rather be at Upton Park than Stratford.
You’re 9th!
So not in Europe, watching shit football, after we sold our soul? That’s not the promise we were made. If someone breaks a promise to you, you get angry and demand more
Don't see him "demanding" anything. You asked what they aspire to, and he answered it.
I'm sure there are plenty of Leeds fans out there that see their 'natural' place in the top half of the Prem and would feel comfortable aspiring to that if you had a massive stadium and relative financial stability.
Quite a few steps before that would even be considered, but I doubt many people would put West Ham above Leeds in the category of historical clubs you expect to succeed - and I say that well aware that expecting Leeds to break the vice grip of the 7 or so mega clubs is delusional also.
I think getting at a fan of another club of a similar stature in the way that you are is a little out there, in truth.
Why would you think you are better qualified than them to judge their managers' performance? Even if you disagreed, surely it would be common sense to respect their opinion, given they pay far more attention to their own football than you do?
I would disagree. Plenty of Leeds fans want Daniel Farke sacked for finishing third. Often fans are the worst judges of their clubs.
But you, a neutral, who has almost definitely not watched them much at all this season, and doesnt really give two figs where they end up, are better placed to say what they deserve?
I’ve watched them several times and can read a league table and see they are Europa Conference League Champions. I’m not better placed, I just think this is clearly indicative of a strange reactionary football culture where fans all expect constant success.
Several times, you say? Well, fair enough. You're right.
So what do you think? What's the plan? 2 year contract? 3 year contract? They've got a bit of money available too so they can give him £100m or so to spend on players this summer. They can get some more players in who are fully qualified for Moyesball and can safely secure West Ham's top 17 PL status.
Yeah, sounds fucking insane doesn't it.
We are likely to finish around 11th this year. We were nearly relegated last year. If we hadn't had a spell of lucky wins, we would be much further down the table. We have been shocking in 2024; we have won 4 games, and our performances haven't really changed from the start of the season; our results now just reflect what our performance deserves. That makes it two years of really poor performances in the league without any sign that it's getting better. Some of the performances and results in 2024 are the worst in Moyes' reign despite not having many injuries and probably his best team
Objectively 11th is not a ‘really poor performance’ and you’re not even 11th. You missed out a fairly key event last year too…
Yes, if you just look at the table, but even then, it's still not amazing considering the money spent. Like I said, we are only still where we are because of that spell of winning games we shouldn't have won. Ever since, our results have been dog shit, much like last season. Other that couple of month spell our performances have been progressively worse, while having better players. We look to be going backwards not forwards.
Ah yes, we won the Conference League, a competition we were favorites for while beating teams with a budget many times smaller than ours. We were awful in the semi-final and final; if Alkmaar and Fiorentina could finish, we would have lost. Our win was like City winning the League Cup without playing a top 6 team, not some footballing miracle. Leicester should have won it the year before, and Villa should be winning it this year. Questions may be raised if they don't, but as they are in such a good position in the league, they may get a pass on that.
Everyone spends that money in that league. West Ham are not a giant of English football. Their current level is historically overperforming.
Keep up this energy next season when people start playing the 'Leeds deserve to be relegated' 'Leeds are a yo-yo club' narrative,
You'll find it quite annoying
If we are in the position where we could be relegated from the PL I will be more than happy.
The way we've handled his exit has been so scummy.
I understand hating him for his PL form, but dude literally got us a European cup. Deserved more respect.
Can't wait for Sullivan to get out.
what exactly is it that you think weve done wrong?
he had a contract on the table that he didnt sign.
he has had a shocking past 2 years in the league and not been sacked.
hes been allowed to see out the contract he has.
the club interviewed potential replacements, so that there is a continuity plan in place FOR WEST HAMS BENEFIT. one of those leaked the info to force liverpools hand.
he has been given more class than he deserves at this point - he should have been sacked some time last season.
Wild to me. Overachieved with an average squad and won a European trophy.
Lopetegui was absolutely useless at wolves.
9-4-10 at Wolves and took them from 20th to 13th. Doesn’t sound useless to me.
It wasn't pretty though. He had all the ingredients but it was ugly. Look at us now with two strikers in double digits when necessary was our top scorer last year. It's night and day.
We have a decent squad but have been pretty woeful in the league for two years. Nearly relegated last year and this year, we've been shocking in 2024, still relying on the bright start we had where we lucked out a lot of wins where we should have drawn or lost. We've conceded the most goals other than the current bottom three and look to be sliding down into a bottom half finish. We've spent quite a bit of money, and two bottom half finishes is not a great return from that.
The trophy argument is so easy, but we were heavy favorites of the competition with a budget many times larger than any other team. If we had lost to any of those teams, questions would have been asked. We limped through the semis and didn't look good in the final; if Fiorentina or Alkmaar could finish, we wouldn't have won. Us winning it wasn't like Leicester winning the league or Porto winning the Champions League; it was more like City winning the League Cup while playing none of the big 6.
If Villa don't win or at least get to the final, then it's a massive disappointment, at least they are doing fantastic in the league.
That all being said I dont think Lopetegui is the anwser.
He wasn't useless at us, he was just a petulant child who turned us down on the eve of joining us the first time, then came back and had a hand in rescuing us from relegation, but then threw his toys out of the pram via really unsubtle interviews with his best mate Guillem Balague where it appeared he tried to twist the narrative to make himself seem very hard done by...then we got rid of him and got GON and went from strength to strength. Beware. (almost forgot, he alienated some of our best players too)
Yeah, he was shit. Gary o Neill is doing wonders with the same squad.
We have the 8th biggest wage bill and 8th biggest net transfer spend in the league so if our squad is ‘average’ whose fault is that?
He has not ‘overachieved’. Our league positions over his four years average out pretty much exactly where we should be given the money spent.
Europe for multiple seasons and a European trophy require a higher finish than 8th. That’s over achievement.
We finished 6th then 7th which were slight overachievements, then 14th which was a significant underachievement and look like being 10th this season. Average out those four seasons and it is a little worse than 9th. Not overachievement- pretty much in line with what our expectations should be.
I’m not saying that Moyes’s record is a terrible one, but I’m fed up of people who don’t know the facts telling me that he is one kind of miracle worker. He’s done an ok job in the league, an excellent job in Europe and a very poor job in terms of player development and entertainment.
A 14th finish with a European trophy and qualification into Europe. That’s over achievement. 3 consecutive seasons of European qualification is over achievement, table finish isn’t the only aspect. Then this season until last week, a 4th season in a row wasn’t out of the question. That’s better than the expectation of 8th.
Man united have the highest net spent over the last decade in world football, what point did you think you were making?
He did overachieve - you should be nowhere near European cups and he won one, and did largely really well this season in the league.
They’ve underachieved. We’ve achieved roughly in line with legitimate expectations.
Not sure what’s complicated about that. Surprised to hear someone on r/theother14 talking about who ‘should be near’ Europe.
It's wild you have that take but each to their own!
Careful what you wish for. If they bomb now they only have themselves to blame.
What a tired cliché... I wish not to concede 5 goals regularly, I wish to have some clean sheets, I wish to enjoy a football game occasionally. He'd have been sacked from any other club by now. Regardless, the point the OP makes is correct - he deserved a classier send off.
The phrase ‘careful what you wish for’ has become the most annoying cliche in football. Everyone who uses it instantly reveals themselves as a know-nothing bore.
Where does the club think they are? There is no way they will be able to regularly finish above the 8 currently sat above them barring maybe Villa who will eventually drop off again. The top of the PL is mostly a closed shop. 9th with the odd forray into a Europa spot is as good as it gets.
Know nothing bore? Jesus.
Maybe if Villa and Newcastle knew their place they wouldn’t be where they are now either.
Newcastle are owned by a state. They’re an entirely different argument. Villa could be where you get to with a good manager coming in, but like I said, they won’t sustain where they are right now.
For the record, I absolutely get why they’ve got rid of him. I’m just saying it might not work out.
Why do you think this sub exists?
What's the point of anyone watching football then if you don't have ambitions to reach higher? In reality the vast majority of us would be happy with regular top-10 finishes, good cup runs and the odd trip to Europe (remember we were in a relegation battle last year and probably finishing outside the top-10 this year) but if that's where we're going to be then I'd at least want to see more ambition for what I'm paying and to get the most out of players like Paqueta, Kudus and Bowen whilst we have them!
If you don’t want people to think you are a bore don’t come out with cliches like ‘be careful what you wish for’ like you are Alan Shearer nodding sagely on some tedious podcast.
I’m not Shearer, I don’t have a wankers hat to start with, and I have a legitimate birth certificate. Anyway, cliche aside, Moyes has you very stable and I would say in a position that probably maximises where the club can be at the moment, as I just can’t see them cracking the big lot.
We were 14th last season, we look like being 10th this season. We have a tiny ageing squad that he refuses to enlarge or refresh. We play negative, boring football but have still conceded 70 goals this season and got beaten by at least four goals more times than anyone except Sheffield United. We’ve won two league games this year. We are in a dead end.
We have the seventh biggest turnover in the PL, the eighth biggest wage bill and net transfer spend over the last five years, and the second biggest home gate in the country. We are the 15th richest football club in the world. It is not unrealistic for our fans to hope for more than PL survival and it’s not unrealistic for us to want to enjoy watching our team. Where did this joyless idea come from that fans are not allowed to want to be entertained?
He didn’t refuse to enlarge it, we were reaching the upper limits of FFP. So we had to offload players to bring new ones in. Trying to do that in a months window is tough.
Arguably, some of the players we have brought in under Moyes have been class.
seventh biggest turnover in the PL
eigth biggest wage bill
So when the above shakes out, you should finish 7th-9th.
2nd biggest home gate
Being a Sunderland fan, I can tell you this means absolutely nothing.
I agree that you should want more, but I’ll repeat my other comment - why do you think this sub exists?
For me, winning a major trophy is enough to stick with a manager through ‘bad’ times. The past few years are the best West Ham have been in my memory. Maybe a change is needed to freshen things up to push further, idk. What I do know, is it’s hard to find the right guy for the team and switching could lead to the recent Everton, Burnley, Leicester, Chelsea, Spurs, Man U underachievements.
Leicester are arguably in their situation because they stuck with Rodgers for too long even though the team was clearly regressing under him
They’re in their situation due to FFP issues. They had to sell and couldn’t reinvest. Even before Rodgers they sacked Ranieri the season after winning the league.
As a Leicester fan, the difference is, that while everyone knew it was long past time for Rogers to go, we'll all happily admit he did brilliantly for us while he was there, was one of our best ever managers, and far exceeded our expectations, we'll happily concede that its unlikely that we'll be able to replicate our results/performances under Rogers for quite some time.
We don't think he was some sh*t old dinosaur, far below what we deserved as a club and that now he's gone we'll be a permenent fixture of the top 6.
The situation sounds very similar to me, that first paragraph is exactly how I feel about Moyes.
I don't think West Ham will finish top 6 anytime soon however with only 3 PL wins in 2024, it's clear that something needs to change and the team needs fresh eyes.
we havent won a major trophy though.
Look at Everton post David Moyes, and know that is your fate West Ham
As an Everton fan who remembers our Moyes era with fondness I can't help but feel West Ham have done him the dirty. West Ham are 9th in the table which is kinda the highest position they could realistically expect, the 8 teams above them are better teams, sure Man Utd and Chelsea are just above them but they're having their own awful seasons, I'm sure they'll improve next year. Newcastle are bound to spend more to improve the team, Aston Villa deserve to be where they are, Spurs are awful but still have a lot more points than West Ham.
West Ham also lost their best player in Rice and never replaced him, bit tough to really.
The European Conference League might be the least prestigious European trophy but it's still a trophy, there are teams above them in the table haven't won a trophy for years.
I don't see what someone like Julen Lopetegui would bring that's any different.
Moyes steadied the ship, avoided relegation, climbed the table and won a European trophy, he deserves better.
Maybe we'll see him at Spurs next season lol
Never replaced Rice? We spent 40m on Alvarez who’s been one of our only good performers, you’re chatting out your arse
I agreed with you fully until the last sentence lol. The downvotes are harsh, presumably disgruntled Hammers.
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Going to my first game with my Old Man since the last game at Upton Park. Time to see off the best manager in my lifetime, the manager that gave me the best time as a West Ham fan. Prague and Seville will never be forgotten, David.
Also, ask any West Ham fan and I would be shocked should they not class David Moyes as a West Ham legend, simple as that.