Also can we just take a moment to look at how effectively he disarmed all of them without harming any of them in the span of a millisecond?
Imagine if Homelander grew up in a caring home and had proper training…
Why hasn’t Homelander used his Super Speed like he did here?
DiscussionI kind of interpreted that the Live-Action HL is entirely opposed to anything that could be considered "strenuous" if he doesn't have to do it.
Even when he's lasering peoples heads off, he barely moves. He's just standing there... Menacingly...
This is why I was a bit disappointed when he fought super powered butcher and seemed to hold his own fighting technique wise. Theres no way homelander ever learned how to fight, how could he have? Once on a more even level power-wise, Butcher should wipe the floor with him
Edit: lots of good points made in reply to this comment, love seeing all the discussion
You gotta consider his time in the oven though. It might hurt HL to get punched by someone with equal power, but he's definitely felt worse pain than anything Butcher could ever do to him while suped up.
I felt more like in this instant (and maybe I'm wrong) but Antony Starr had the facial expressions of Shock that Butcher would have been Superpowered in the first place, let alone then seeing Hughie too try to go toe to toe with him.
Afterward, once they had him in shock, they had him overwhelmed and Soldier Boy was already in on the fun so he powered through to escape and recoup what was going on.
These are both good points.
Yeah. Homelander was tortured his whole youth.
I agree, but combat isn’t just about inflicting pain. If you are familiar with how the body works and how to actually immobilize and do damage to it efficiently, that is usually more than enough to take someone out no matter how resilient they are.
Also, in the same episode of diabolical, homelander has flashes of being a kid, one of them is getting his ass beat by some huge dude, I think vought TRIED to train him to fight, once he grew a bit and stopped being scared and turned angry, he probably realized it was useless
I feel like the bigger problem would be him accidentally going overboard and killing his training partner
Turns it's not a problem to murder someone in public.
Well the training would have been in private anyway. Especially since most of it would be before his official "debut."
And Vought would have no problem quietly disappearing supes that are sacrificed as homelanders sparring partners. But it all seems like a lot of wasted time/effort/money when he's already so strong that he's never needed real training
But yeah. Could probably televise him killing people. Like Bully Beatdown meets a snuff film
You're right about the training partners. If he had any, they're all dead. That's why he can't fight, in a real sense.
That's why it was so impactful when Maeve noticed a bruise on his face. He was getting his ass whooped and had to leave.
Another great point, what a lovely discussion.
What, like a metal straw to the ear?
That's decent, but a more effective technique would be a sneeze to the penis
Cool story....now how does that work with a body that can fly?
That's the neat part.
This doesn't apply to supes. I'm sure it would help you punch a LITTLE above your weight class, but if you're a normal human there is no perfect attack that will let your delicate human fist hurt something that can no sell tank shells.
Humans always have eyeballs you can target if nothing else. But I've seen everything from punches to the head to arm locks just get shrugged off because the person did. not. care.
edit: With humans the weight of one human on top of another creates a mechanical advantage that's really hard to overcome. Because supes are proportionately stronger than their body weight by ridiculous degrees all of those techniques go out the window: BJJ is useless even before you consider that your opponent can fly up with you on them.
I'm also not entirely sold on how good martial arts are at actually fighting. In MMA fights it's not that different from a school yard fight a lot of times. IRL speed power and strength and durability matter a lot, supes increase those differences.
In this case both of the hypothetical fighters can fire lasers out of their eyes and probably tank bullets with them too so maybe not the biggest weak point.
Honestly, if you factor in equal-and-opposite reactions a conventionally good brawler might get disoriented
Like, you try to punch something, but you swing from the hips hard enough that your foot sinks in the earth like a shovel tip and now your fist trajectory is off.
And at the opposite end, someone that can fly doesn't need leg strength anymore they have flying strength.
Butcher's human to human combat skill may not translate to sup killing moves. Homelander has a lifetime of experience at least moving like a supe (and he does, once he remembers it)
I mean he felt pain when they baked him like a cake in an oven.
They show him being trained in this episode.
he is still more powerful than v'd up butcher
if butcher wasnt military trained he probably wouldnt be able to hold himself against HL
And military guys aren't exactly the best guys at fighting bare-handed. More than the average joe, but less so than an average UFC fighter.
Butcher isn't just a military grunt though. He worked with the CIA, was a royal marine commando, did special forces level operations... He's definitely not just some average grunt who kicked in doors looking for insurgents.
I learned this about military personnel recently and it blows my mind to know that I had more training in taekwondo as a kid than most adults do in the service.
It makes sense not to train them in unarmed combat unless they’re special forces. It takes years of training a few hours a day to become elite at any legitimate martial art. If they end up in a real world scenario with zero weapons on hand then something has gone extremely wrong already.
Why should they? A trained Fighter can’t stop even the worst bullet.
Put your hand on that wall trooper. I SAID PUT YOUR HAND ON THAT WALL!
This is some Starship Troopers Stuff. I like it 😂
It’s all relative, in some unit I was in I had 2 hours of combatives training either every Friday or every other Friday. Some we didn’t, but at the end of the day I never really needed it anyway.
I’d say at least 90% of military personnel never even see combat, and if that 90% got to the point where they needed to see combat, they’re already properly fucked
There’s tons of people in the Navy that couldn’t swim before boot camp. If you’re on an aircraft carrier and you are being forced into the water, you got bigger problems than backstroke breaststroke. If you’re in a sub, then you don’t really have a problem anymore.
I think it’s just cause his powers are much stronger. He’s just got a ton of juice to throw around.
In this same animated episode, there's flashbacks to a kid Homelander fighting a supe mercenary in some sort of brutal training exercise
Yes, this is a point most people seem to forget. Vought has had strong Supes for decades before HL was born, he would've had Supe trainers who could go toe to toe with him for most of his childhood, probably until he got old enough and strong enough that he could no longer push himself without killing them. It's clear he's had training, he's just a bit rusty and more importantly, he's lazy. Easier to just laser whoever is annoying him and be done with it.
Vought hired supes to beat the shit out of him when he was a child, we see that in Diabolical as well. I'm sure he picked up a move or two from there.
Remember when he told soldier boy “I watched your movies, hundreds of times”? Homelander most likely copied his fighting style, practiced it hours on end in the “bad room” and it reflects that in their fight
That’s like saying “I learned how to fight because I watched Captain America: The Winter Soldier” for hours on end.
Considering how Vaught groomed him to be the best superhero it's very likely they had him do some basic training for the cameras
There is evidence we learn and improve at sports simply from watching them
I’m a ju-jitsu master from those old Brazilian vhs tapes
I mean, if you watch it and go practice it with a friend, then yeah you'll become proficient on BJJ. Not a black belt, but I bet you'll sub 99% of people
growing up i had a friend who watched BJJ on YouTube and practiced the moves with his little brother. he is a BJJ instructor now. of course he had training after the youtube stuff too, but the videos were more than enough for him to consistently whoop my ass when we rolled.
Literally my brother. Any time we see a new submission on UFC he instantly tries to practice it on me😂
As a brother should
And I have a 12 inch dick from all the Brazilian VHS tapes I watched as well
Homelander has super senses, an incredible ability to differentiate smells, can listen to what people whisper from across the room... He's definitely more along the lines of someone who watched Winter Soldier and literally practiced the fighting moves with as good or better agility and strength than Captain America. He's not an idiot at all.
Who would say that for hours on end? /joking
Are you a supe when you watch and lean from the movie?
Homie is a supe
Oh, but he did. In his backstory he was put-up almost daily against experienced enhanced soldiers during his teens to test his strength.
He did learn how to fight but that was so traumatic to him so now he just ends everything instantly to never mentally return there.
I think y'all are forgetting he has super human sense and reflexes, imagine your opponent moving in slow motion, you could fight anyone
The end of s3 kind of made people forget how op Homelander is in this universe. The writing kind of sucked for the fight. The only person who should come close to being able to beat him is A Train. After Maeve stuck a needle in his ear people think he’s weak. The writers definitely meant that as a feat of strength for Maeve but it’s perceived more as Homelander being able to be damaged by everyday objects.
Why do you think being powerful and not knowing how to fight would be positively correlated? I've never lost a fight. It's not like you have to lose fights in order to learn how to fight. In fact, you probably learn faster because of that.
Yep. The only time I can think where he actually fits with some effort is Herogasm and the fight with Maeve. He’s neither interested in physically exerting himself nor does he want to. I also assume super speed like this is harder to portray in live action compared to animated while looking good.
I also assume super speed like this is harder to portray in live action compared to animated while looking good.
A train used his super speed to walk like 10 feet across a room to open a cabinet so I think they can portray it pretty liberally.
This is showing super speed while everyone else is in slow motion. That's harder.
A Train examples are just a blur and then he's in a different spot.
A-train is way faster, he is basically teleporting from our perspective, but Homelander (if this is his max speed) would need to be shown moving really fast compared to everyone else but still slow enough to follow him, because the humans here were able to follow him in Diabolical.
It is harder, but they do it with A-Train all the time.
A-train just moves in a blur. I think doing a slow motion quicksilver type scene would be a totally different thing
He’s lazy, and doesn’t consider anyone or anything really worth his time. You can see this in herogasm, he doesn’t really try until he’s about to get himself nuked.
There was that scene in Season 1 where he made Maeve take the elevator up, stole her collar to save some time, and was just generally acting bothered about having to even show up. Yeah laziness is a prime motivation on the show. And why wouldn't it be? If you could give a 15/10 performance without trying, would you exert yourself to give a 25/10 performance?
He did when Butcher tries to blow himself up to kill Homelander at the end of season one.
Also in season 3 and HL visits Butcher at his home to sit down and talk about wanting to go to war. Butcher looks away for a second and then HL is gone
nah that's just him copying batman
Bruce Wayne's getting an Interdimensional lawyer to sue, as we speak
Also in the fight versus Butcher, Soldier Boy and Hughie
where does he use super speed there?
I think he's referring to at the very end when Homelander flies up to escape. I guess that counts as super speed. He was super speedy :)
Woah, totally forgot that! Good catch! 👍
इसके अलावा वह पहले सत्र में दो बार विमान से तेज़ उड़ रहा था - एक बार उसे लेज़र करने के लिए और एक बार उसमें घुसने के लिए।
Iirc, he told becca that he was breaking the sound barrier when he was ryan's age.
And when he was searching Translucent, in the security camera we can see him flying very damn fast
because he doesnt wanna steal a-train's job, what a nice guy
He loves A Train so much 😊
Hug A-train
I'm not kidding. go over there, spread out a-trains arms.
Sexuality is a spectrum
Right bro?
Even tried to get him some action from the Deep. A true friend ❤️
Yummers
Alright, now blow A-Train.
Actually that’s probably true, because A-Train can literally tow a whole ass train with a bunch of carriages, meaning his strength is in the multi-ton range, but he’s only marketed as the fastest man alive—he didn’t have to run to be super, he was still super strong, but that’s not what Vought wanted to focus on.
It's easier to tow something than actually picking it up, there's no doubt a train has super strength but it isn't the same as actually picking up and chucking a train
I’m not saying he’s Homelander’s level of strength, just that he’s clearly still able to fight crime, but Vought isn’t about crime fighting, it’s about brand and marketing.
No one is going to buy energy drinks based on someone who isn’t the fastest, no matter how strong he is.
Its like Ginyu and Frieza (and Guldo) being faster than Burter technically because theyre stronger but still letting him call himself the FASTEST IN THE UNIVERSE
I have a feeling that they're going to debut this when A Train inevitably tries to run away from Homelander
I really hope so. I get it’s a production budget issue but I really want to see Homelander in a speedster fight. Even if its a short scene.
Are we getting a Quick Silver style scene from X Men? That would be crazy.
I kinda doubt it since they're insanely difficult to produce from a film-making perspective (not necessarily a CG perspective). We kind of got one with A-Train versus Hughie and Annie in season 1 but something on the level of Quicksilver in the X-Men films is on a whole other level.
The Corridor Crew guys did a breakdown of it here. From a CG standpoint it wouldn't be a problem but there's a lot of moving parts so it could be very difficult. In saying that, Amazon did also fund the construction of a giant animatronic whale for S2 so all bets are off. I suppose it just has to make sense in the story for it to be warranted, but idk if we're gonna get a Homelander versus A-Train scene.
What about Homelander killing A Train similar to how Omniman kills Red Rush?
Haven't seen Invincible so idk how that plays out there. But again, it can happen if it makes sense for the story.
A-Train is on somewhat of a redemption arc, so if he were to die to Homelander it would probably be a heroic sacrifice of some kind.
Bro got Oberyn Martell'd, jesus.
But tbh I imagine Homelander would probably kill him by ripping out his heart. Might even make a joke about how it's not even really his heart since it's Blue Hawk's.
I think Homelander will just laser his legs out and then crush his head while he's trying to scape :(
Also, it’s Amazon… they have infinite money.
How much money they have is irrelevant. It's about how much they're willing to spend.
I'm expecting more something like that short scene where the flash is running and sees that superman could react to him while in superspeed mode
I doubt that would be possible, but I certainly would like something more compelling than MCU Quicksilver at least.
"You were never the fastest man alive"
"Those were for charity, A-Train."
I don't think Homelander could mentally allow A-Train to hold that title if it wasn't true, at least for ground speed. We already know that Homelander flying at top speed is way faster but not sure if that counts.
God I'd fucking love that
A Train has to be faster. Literally last episode he was able to run in and save Hughie unnoticed by HL.
On foot sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Homelander could fly faster than A-Train can run if he was dead set on chasing him.
Fair, especially since they haven’t grounded how exactly he flies (whether its by his jumping power or something in the reign of Omni-Man)
There's no way it's based off jumping if you can keep up with a plane it has to be basically like Omni man
this is gonna be fuckin nuts !!!
Hope anything like that happens, I know it's a budget thing but still, Homelander's powers are criminally under-utilized in the show. Like, show us time to time why he's the top dog
I know it's a budget thing but stil
People keep saying this and yet we get huge useless money sinks like frenchie's LSD scene in shining light and this whole thing with flying sheep tearing apart a bull, etc.
Because characters with superspeed require really good writing to not have their powers be completely overpowered. Hell, look at the Flash TV show, how many times a villain gets away by just running through a nearby door, or gets away at all despite it being well estavlished that the Flash can search the entire city in like 15 minutes.
This. Speedsters are broken. There are episodes of The Flash where everyone is a statue. How could anyone sneak up on, let alone hit, someone that can do that? The answer is simple: it's for the plot. There wouldn't be a show if the Flash locked up everyone before they could even blink.
At least A Train works because he's just not that trained at fighting (hell he's technically never saved anyone legitimately), but yeah for the most part speedsters are broken.
He saved Hughie at Vought on ice so now he has saved someone legitimately
LOL, ironically someone who hated him initially for killing his gf.
I'm hoping A-Train has a Zuko level redemption arc.
Honestly with this show, they’ll do it and then kill him. Brutally.
He also seems physically limited by his heart and knows it.
Also his brain / nervous system, which I liked. Otherwise he wouldn’t have exploded Huey’s girlfriend.
that’s cus he was high
also the problem comes when they show barry being trained by people like thawne and oliver who are veterans.
BS fan lore reason here but I assume flying takes much less effort than speed (A-train mentions how much he has to eat) And that potential burn/exhaustion probably would have gotten him killed against Soldier Boy/Butcher/Maeve
Real reason: It wouldn’t be fun if Homelander just ran around. Like if he wanted to he could have just ran really fast around the ice rink and immediately found Hughie. Same thing with the X-ray vision/super hearing. I don’t really think the writers thought above the vents being made of zinc. It’s just more plot convenient for him to not do that.
Galvanized steel air vents are coated in zinc
I don't even think the writers remembered him not being able to see through Zinc, I think they just forgot he has x-ray vision.
He uses it 2 episodes earlier, how did would they have "just forgot" especially since the interactions surrounding that scene remain important throughout the season
Steel air vents tend to be coated in zinc so it actually does make sense
There was a moment two episodes ago where A-Train meets with Hughie and turns around to leave at a normal walking speed and Hughie is like "no wait". He also could've been in and out of Homelanders room with Compound V in a second. Just difficult to make consistent with general plot devices.
I like the fan lore that A-Train takes a couple normal speed steps now to make sure there’s no one he’s going to obliterate as soon as he takes off. Like he’s learned from his mistakes
In that show everyone’s power eventually stops being creative and just becomes a beam.
I saw clips from the last episode and it looked like power rangers I was so confused
It’s why the flash show fucking blows
I was laughing my ass off at madvocates series critiqueing every time flash could win and shouldn’t ever lose.
It’s a multi hour YouTube series and I binged it multiple times because it’s that comical
Why run when laser do trick?
They probably don't have him use his speed much because it's just cheaper to not do so. Instead they just imply that he is very fast with jump cuts. Like we saw when he pops in and out of Butcher's apartment.
Homelander's super speed is like Invincible's, highly plot dependent.
Deadass forgot invincible has super speed 💀
Yeah it can be easy to forget since he only uses it for travel
Tbf viltrumite super speed is kinda dependent on picking up speed while traveling (at least the super fast kind)
That and they cant go too fast on a planet without doing serious damage to everything around them
he uses some level of super speed when he's in Amber's room, he zips to the light and back basically instantly lol
Once Homelander finds out how powerful he really is, he just gets his job done faster by using his lasers. Plus, he doesn't care about humans anyway.
it’s so sad how homelander genuinely was superman at this point and was groomed into being the monster he is now by stillwell and noir
Superspeed is a problematic power if it is used often by any character that does not value human life over achieving their goals.
Homelander would be too overpowered if he uses superspeed often to solve his problems. Nothing would ever be a threat to him, new villians would be dead the moment they reveal themselves to him, and the boys would never get anything done.
Pretty sure it is because of his actitud never training his powers. In another post they show the Deep has muscle but homelander uses a padded suit. I think it is hilarious and very on character. Also starlight actually learns to fly and use her light like globes to increase her punches. Pretty interesting ways of using her power.
He doesn't need training to do this, just like flying or lasering people.
It's more budgetary reasons and he also hasn't had to really use it like he did here, when he was once actually trying to be good and save people.
About muscle too, what can he even lift to build muscle? He'll have to lift buildings.
Better question: Why hasn't Homelander used his empathy for human beings like he did here?
Same answer to both questions: Because he discovered that lasering people is more fun.
It was when he was just a newbie right? He learned that vought will cover up for their fuck up anyway.
Not sure he ever had any, or if he's just acting how he thinks he's supposed to.
It would eat up a lot of calories and he only has so much breast milk to spare
It was really odd that he didn't use his speed + flight to track down Hughie in the vent, our at least beat him to the roof
It's odd he can smell butcher on his son, but couldn't smell Hughie in a vent that you can assume was blowing air right at his back. Or even see him with his alleged X-ray vision. Or heard his breathing. Or literally any of the hundreds of ways that homelander should've been able to detect him with his powers. That whole scene was dumb. I know the boys is dumb a lot, but good God that one scene gave Hughie so much plot armor that I'm surprised the whole vent didn't cave under the weight of it.
I assume its because Homelander was focused on the conversation rather than the smell of the room they were in.
That whole scene was plot hole after plot hole and they should have just avoided it
Budget
Probably similar to how in the DCAU Justice League, Martian Manhunter largely has the same powerset as Superman save for the telepathy and phasing that is focused on because it makes him stand out and how the Flash is utilized for superspeed because that's his thing (especially since that version is Wally West, canonically the fastest Flash in the DC universe).
Too much effort. Why run when you can just Lazer everything
Imagine if Homelander grew up in a caring home and had proper training…
Don't have to imagine it, you're literally describing Superman lmao! it's more like Homelander is "if Superman grew up experimented on and conditionned by evil people" aha!
Plot Amor + Show Budget are the biggest factors.
probably because he is lazy af
Simple answer- show budget
Cuz he’s a lazy fuck.
as far as super speed goes that was really really slow. Last dude had the time to look at him and I'm assuming he's a normal dude. Might be faster than humans generally but from this clip alone he's a snail compared to A-Train.
He used it once, to save Butcher and they haven't figured out how to use it properly since.
This was when he was much younger and tried to care about being a hero. Now he probably doesn’t give a fuck using all his abilities at full potential. However if he tries to destroy the country I’m sure we’ll see his super speed
I think this is just something that they retconned honestly.
Imagine if Homelander grew up in a caring home and had proper training…
Never heard of Superman?
Where is this clip from?
द बॉयज़ प्रेजेंट्स: डायबॉलिकल, एपिसोड ८ (इकलौता एपिसोड जो शो से कैनोनिकल है, और मेरा मनपसंद भी है)
I didn’t knew there was an animated series! Thanks!
The last 3 episodes are actually all canon.
Because the plane crash incident wouldn't exist. He simply doesn't care enough to prevent collateral damage. It's one of the most difficult powers to portray just because of how overpowered it is.
Budget. Which they seem to be cutting every season....
The thing is he doesn't need super speed because he's invulnerable.
If you noticed, he used it only when facing Soldierboy at herogasm, dashing on him. That make sense considering Soldierboy is the only threat Homelander faced so far.
plot
He sort of does when he goes to butchers apartment. Butcher turns around and homelander isn't there anymore. It was too quick for normal speed, but we don't actually see him move.
He used it multiple times, at least while flying. Butcher's laptop clocked him at about 1800 kmph while searching for Translucent. Also when he saved Butcher when he blew up Stillwell, right before fighting Soldier Boy in herogasm...
They just saving it as a crazy wtf moment when he kills a train.
He did use it to safe butcher from the explosion in mallorys house
He used it after his "scorched earth" speech in S3.
Butcher turns to him, but he's gone.
I just don't consider it a canon ability because super speed is broken, if he did have it in the show it would explain how he saved butcher, But wouldn't explain how he loses most of his fights
He's fairly lazy most of the time when he uses his powers, doing just the bare minimum to get stuff done which usually translates to him just floating or standing about shooting lasers at people.
He does use it a few times:
Once when saving Billy Butcher from his own suicide bomb attack
Once when leaving Billy Butcher after breaking into his house to talk to him
As an aside how does A train save people using super speed? Wouldn't just touching them at full speed turn them into ground meat? And then even a creating them at full speed and stopping would liquify anyone he's trying to carry.
These people were so fucking stupid it hurt.
I hate super speed more than invulnerability; it can literally do anything with almost zero repercussions
Didnt he use ut herogasm to charge at soldier boy?
He uses it in Season 1 searching for Translucent
He likes to see the terror in peoples eyes. Also this was early in his herodom. Current Homelander would have killed instead of disarmed
I really miss when Homelander was sent out on assignments to deal with terrorists and the like. Loved his haphazard and laid back approach as he emptied out a building.
It’s easier to use laser eyes
The writing of the show wilfully ignores this. It has to otherwise the show is hard to maintain if he’s using it all the time
Budget
Because the show would have stopped a long time ago.
I mean, Hughie just escaped Homelander while he was in the pipes, it's completely unrealistic.
Because he doesn't have to no one cam hurt all he has to do is laser them
He uses it once to save Butcher and Madeline's baby at the end of season 1.
It's genuinely very funny that Homelander is quite significantly faster than A-Train. He's so far ahead, even making a fight with him requires some serious contrivances.
Wonder if Kripke has written himself into a corner with that one.
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