Pennsylvania Wilds

Welcome to /r/PAWilds, the subreddit for outdoor recreation in the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania! While most of this discussion in this subreddit focuses on hiking and camping opportunities within the PA Wilds region specifically, it is open to discussion of all forms of outdoor recreation (including but not limited to paddling, rock climbing, hunting, and fishing) across the entire state. Users are invited to submit photos and trip reports, and to ask questions about gear, outdoor skills, and recreation destinations.

This is the new "general overview of this subreddit" thread, to replace the old one that I made when the subreddit was first formed, 5 years ago. It's meant to be a bit more comprehensive than that old thread was, with more helpful information especially to first-time visitors to this subreddit and/or those just getting started in experiencing everything that PA has to offer in the realm of outdoor recreation. This is a work in progress so feel free to suggest edits and additional content in the comments below.

Answers to some of the more commonly asked questions here are as follows:

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What are the rules of this subreddit?

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An overview of the rules for /r/PAWilds can be found via this mod post.

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What are some good resources for beginners?

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The 10 essentials for hiking: These are the "must haves" that you generally should be carrying on any hike.

The 7 Leave No Trace principles: Leave No Trace (LNT) is a set of outdoor ethics that enable recreational users to better protect wild areas by minimizing their impacts. LNT is a bit more involved than just "if you carry it in, carry it out," so it's worth reading through the LNT website if you have never done so before.

Hiking for beginners: Solid article from REI on the basics of undertaking your first hike, with links to additional articles on more in-depth subjects.

Backpacking for beginners: Another nice article from REI on the basics of undertaking your first backpacking trip where you'll camp overnight in the backcountry.

Backcountry bathroom basics: Improper human waste disposal on public lands is one of the biggest problems our parks and forests face. In addition to being unsightly and disgusting, human waste can spread disease and lead to issues with nuisance wildlife behavior. In some instances, it can even contribute to the loss of access to some public lands. It is important to make sure that all visitors to public lands- including even those just day hiking- understand how to properly dispose of waste in the backcountry.

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Where can I find information for planning trips?

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KTA website: The Keystone Trails Association is PA's largest hiking club and their website is an essential resource for PA Hiking. The Find A Trail Page has links to information about many of PA's major hiking and backpacking trails, and their online store has a ton of guidebooks and maps for sale.

PAHikes website: Another essential resource for finding information on some of PA's more popular hiking trails. PAHikes.com also has an online store that has maps and guidebooks available for sale.

MidAtlanticHikes.com: A labor of love that includes online trail descriptions, maps, and hiker reviews for hikes not just across PA, but also the states of WV, VA, and MD. There is also a moderately active message board where more information can be solicited and found.

Purple Lizard Maps: Maker of high-quality, waterproof maps that cover many of the options for outdoor recreation across the PA Wilds and elsewhere.

PA Department of Conservation & Natural Resources (DCNR) website: The official website of the state agency tasked with overseeing much of PA's public lands. DCNR includes both State Parks and State Forests, which together comprise most of the best opportunities for outdoor recreation in PA. Free trail maps of each state forest (and of many of the more well known backpacking trails) are available by mail upon request- simply contact the relevant state forest headquarters. There is also an interactive online map of hiking trails across the state.

PA Game Commission website: While game lands aren't primarily managed for outdoor recreation, they do nevertheless offer some opportunities for hiking and paddling in addition to fishing and hunting.

Allegheny National Forest website: An invaluable resource for information on recreation opportunities within the boundaries of the Allegheny National Forest in northwestern PA.

Delaware Water Gap website: Information on hikes and other recreation opportunities within the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area in northeastern PA.

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Is there a list of backpacking trails within in PA with links to additional info?

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The following list contains the majority of the more well-known opportunities for hiking and especially backpacking across the state. (Feel free to suggest anything I've missed in the comments- I'd like to keep this list somewhat concise by restricting it mainly to the more well known and/or longer trails but I'm open to suggestions for additional entries.)

Note that not all of these trails are complete. In some cases, such as with the North Country, Mid State, and Baker Trails, the given mileage includes some substantial portions of road walking. Anyone thinking about hiking all or a portion of these trails is advised to do some additional research on the route on their own.

• North-Central PA (PA Wilds Proper):

  • Allegheny Front Trail: 40 mile loop
  • Black Forest Trail: 42 mile loop
  • Bucktail Path: 34 mile linear trail
  • Chuck Keiper Trail: 53 mile loop
  • Donut Hole Trail: 90 mile linear trail
  • Elk Trail: 16 mile linear trail
  • Golden Eagle Trail: 9 mile loop
  • Loyalsock Trail: 59 mile linear trail
  • Loyalsock-Link Loop: 25 mile loop
  • Mid-State Trail: 319 mile linear trail
  • Old Loggers Path: 27 mile loop
  • Quehanna Trail: 75 mile loop
  • Susquehannock Trail System: 85 mile loop
  • West Rim Trail: 30 mile linear trail

• Northwestern PA (Allegheny National Forest and vicinity):

  • Baker Trail: 141 mile linear trail
  • Gerard Hiking Trail: 36 mile loop
  • Minister Creek Trail: 7 mile loop
  • North Country Trail: 200 mile (in PA) linear trail
  • Rachel Carson Trail: 38 mile linear trail
  • Tracy Ridge Trails: 34 mile trail network

• Southwestern PA:

  • Bear Run Nature Reserve: 23 mile trail network
  • John P. Saylor Trail: 18 mile figure eight
  • Laurel Highlands Trail: 70 mile linear trail
  • Lost Turkey Trail: 26 mile linear trail
  • Quebec Run Wild Area: 26 mile trail network

• South-Central PA:

  • Mid-State Trail: 319 mile linear trail
  • Rocky Knob-Quarry Gap Trail: 12 mile loop
  • Standing Stone Trail: 76 mile linear trail
  • Terrace Mountain Trail: 29 mile linear trail
  • Tuscarora Trail: 110 mile (in PA) linear trail

• Southeastern PA:

  • Appalachian Trail: 232 mile (in PA) linear trail
  • Brandywine Trail: 20+ miles (when completed) linear trail
  • Conestoga Trail: 63 mile linear trail
  • Horse-Shoe Trail: 140 mile linear trail
  • Mason-Dixon Trail: 115 mile (in PA) linear trail

• Northeastern PA (Poconos Region):

  • Pinchot Trail: 26 mile loop
  • Thunder Swamp Trail: 30 mile figure eight

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I've heard that I can get a patch for having hiked every trail in the state. Is this true?

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You probably heard about the State Forest Trails Award. It's available to anyone who has hiked all of the state forest land sections of the 18 designated state forest trails. All told, some 700+ miles of trails must be hiked to become eligible to receive the award. The application for the award is available on the DCNR website.

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I've heard that I can camp anywhere I want on public land in PA. Is this true?

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Sort of. What you're asking about is usually called "dispersed camping," which is camping at sites of your own choosing, away from an established campground with amenities.

Most public lands in PA typically fall into one of five categories. Here's a quick overview of how primitive/dispersed camping works on each:

• State Forest Lands: Dispersed camping is permitted, with some exceptions. Permits are required in many but not all circumstances.
• State Park Lands: Backcountry camping is allowed at designated sites only. Only a small number of state parks have any designated backcountry sites.
  
• State Game Lands: All camping is prohibited. An exception was made for the Appalachian Trail, but with some rather stringent stipulations.
  
• National Forest Lands: Dispersed camping is permitted, with some exceptions.
  
• National Park Lands: Backcountry camping is generally allowed at designated sites only. Delaware Water Gap allows some minimal dispersed camping along the AT but with a bunch of additional criteria to adhere to.
  

An important component of figuring out whether you can camp and where on a specific parcel of public land is figuring out which of these categories it falls into. Even where dispersed camping is allowed, there are still some restrictions and expectations that you must abide by. The specifics of how each of these areas works with regards to primitive and/or dispersed camping is a bit more in depth that I think many may be looking for in this post, and I've elected the share that information separately in a response to this thread below.

It's also generally expected when primitive camping, regardless of location, that you abiding by the Leave No Trace principles.

Note also that public lands can fall into additional categories- there's public lands owned by municipal park departments, not-for-profit entitles, and even private individuals. Even when open to the public and when wild in character, these classifications of public land ownership usually do not permit camping.

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I've heard that it's possible to lease land from the state to build a cabin on. Is this true?

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It is true that there is no shortage of lease camps (cabins) in existence on state forest lands across PA. However, new leases have not been available for since 1970. Every so often, existing lease camps may be made available for sale- but the opportunity to secure such a lease is not without considerable interest and they usually fetch a fair amount of money. Lease camps may not be used for permanent, year-round occupation.

Spring is upon us yet again, which means that the annual spring fire ban enforced by DCNR is once again in place from March 1st through May 25th. This includes all State Forest Lands, which also includes portions of the AT. The ban exists due to the seasonally increased danger of wildfires- the period between snow melt and leaf out is often particularly dry, and there can be a much greater potential for intense and/or widespread damaging wildfires. In many eastern states, more wildfires are typically seen in the spring than during any other period of the year.

The appropriate regulation reads as follows (an expanded list of State Forest regulations can be viewed via PDF here):

§ 21.118. Fires.

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(f) Forest-fire danger. Fires in fire rings and fireplaces are prohibited at the following times unless permitted by the Department:

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(2) From March 1 through May 25.

The ban is a soft ban. During the ban, if the conditions are acceptable for fires, some state forests (not all) will issue verbal permission to have campfires if you contact the appropriate state forest headquarters a day or two prior to your trip. However, they may also mandate that you obtain a camping permit as a stipulation for having a fire.

You can view a map of each state forest boundary and find contact information for the respective headquarters via this page on the DCNR website: https://www.dcnr.pa.gov/StateForests/FindAForest/Pages/default.aspx

Looking for a beautiful place to camp within 3 hours of New castle PA. I’ve been to Ohiopyle State Park Clear creek, state park Presque Isle State Park Cooks forest state park McConnells Mills State Park Moraine state park Pymatuning State Park Raccoon Creek State Park Bald eagle state park Kinzua Bridge State Park Tionesta Allegheny national forest Letchworth State Park & many more I can’t think of off the top of my head . Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Headed out on the QT next weekend. No specific questions really, just wondering if anyone has any recent intel or advice? I’m pretty experienced in PA backpacking, comfortable with bears and “nope noodles”. My plan is 4 days/3 nights. Approx 18, 20, 20, 15 for mileage. Any camp site recommendations fall in those mileages (going counter clockwise starting at Parker Dam)? Looks like I’ll have a good amount or rain, but that could change. Pretty pumped, been wanting to do this one for a few years! Thanks in advance for any tips or knowledge!

so im going to be going on a trip to oil creek state park and it seems to be a popular spot, but i cant seem to find any info on the tent sites. so much about the shelters is online so i figured maybe someone on here could tell me. are the tent sites named and numbered or marked in any way? i want to be at the wolfkiel site for this but just cant seem to find any info. or maybe is it just a big tent site that can only fit 4 people? any info would be helpful, Thanks!

I'm comparing three overnight canoe trip options with family of kids as young as 5 in the PA Wilds general area and curious for input. I have experience with multiple overnight canoe trips including in Canadian Wilderness and elsewhere, but it will be new to family. Family has, however, camped extensively.

Any idea which of this would be the best start?

• 1-2 night trip on the Allegheny from Kinzua/Warren to Tidoute. Would camp on islands on the way. This had been my first choice by my concerns is the 5 year can't swim yet, and would be camping close to water, etc. She's old enought to listen to instruction (and will obviously wear a lifevest), but my concern is current is she walked into water

• 1-2 night trip on the Allegheny Reservoir to overnight boat access campground. I had looked at Wolf Run Marina to Pine Grove as the trip seemed small but still cool backcountry site. Any other opinion on trips to take the would be good for us here? Would this be safer than the river trip given still water?

• Trip on the Clarion River -- haven't looked into this much, but curious if its better

Trying to keep this generic for future searchers. I want to do a 2 night over the long weekend and concerned about parking. I would be driving on Sat morning from outside of Philadelphia. Hoping for 3 hours ish. I did Pinchot in March and Shenandoah in April. OLP is on my list, but not sure if it is viable due to its popularity. Of course I love a good waterfall and overlook as much as the next junkie, but it's not a requirement. Was down in the Barrens recently do a 10 mile day hike. That was a bit too boring. Not complaining, I'll be back there soon enough. There are only so many options for us weekenders.

Any good options come to mind where me finding a place to park is not too dicey? Fine with out and back or loop or what ever. I just like to hike. I'm a bit gun shy as I got towed in NY a couple of years ago in the middle of nowhere. Had to road walk out miles until a police officer eventually drove by and knew who I was since he towed my car. That gem cost me a painful $600 between the ticket and tow.

On my list this year: OLP, some of Loyalsock, and hopefully some of the Midstate and Mason Dixon.
Last weekend I was up in the Catskills, but want to stay in PA this weekend. I like my home turf best. I say that tongue in check since I am a transplant from Nebraska.

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Over near brookville area working anywhere to hike up and show some of the guys what to look for one guys never seen one and the other 2 wana learn so they don't get tagged any help would be appreciated

Hi. I live in Bradford, PA, McKean county. I’m looking for nearby abandoned places within an hour and a half of me to explore and photograph. I affirm Ian a responsible and cautious explorer with nothing but good intentions. Hopefully someone can help me out. Thank you.

After nearly 20 years living out of state, my sister is thinking about moving back to Western PA. I live just north of Pittsburgh and our parents live in Mercer county, and she ideally wants to be within 1.5-2 hours of each of us. She's looking for:

• at least 5 acres of wooded property, but the bigger the better • 3 bed, 2 bath house with some out buildings • $500k or less • LGBTQIA+ friendly (or at least tolerant) area

Everything that's closer to the city is way above budget, and further out makes us a bit nervous. Are there any rural/wooded areas of PA between Pittsburgh and the Allegheny National Forest that would be friendly to non-binary and trans individuals?

I'm kayaking the entire length of the Allegheny River and kinzua is at the end of day 5.

Im thinking about going up north (from Philly) for a few days later this month but most designated campsites are booked out way beyond those dates. I am curious about the backpack camping option, which I presume is an easy alternative. I see on the state website that this style of camping is allowed anywhere except:

• In designated Natural Areas
• Within 200 feet of a forest road
• Within 25 feet of a trail
• Within 100 feet of a stream or any open water

Does this mean that at any give State Forest trail I could park at a trailhead, hike 200ft up the trail, and camp there (assuming the other criteria are fulfilled as well).

They also state that "Backpack camping is typically done at trailside campsites and does not allow for access to motorized vehicles during overnight stays." - I definitely understand that this style of camping would typically be for folks doing multi-day loops or thru hikes, but is there anything actually prevening me from essentially "car camping" 200 ft off the trailhead?

EDIT: Also what are the parking rules in most forests? I cant find much information about roadside parking - would it be legal to just pull off the road and park anywhere within a forest?

Hello,

This will be my first time dispersed camping at Allegheny National Forest. I will be driving from Cleveland Ohio.

Does anyone have any recommendations on which spot to go to? Or a good area to search for spots?

Also any specific trails or things I should see while I am out there.

Thanks in advance!

Hey all.

I am planning on doing one of my first solo hikes/camping trip that may require some bushwhacking sometime this summer. Despite the planning that I have put into this, one things keeps making me reconsider. Snakes... The more research I do, the more I am realizing how dense the venomous snake population is in PA (I am from Brooklyn, NY).

I am not necessarily scared of snakes by any means, but given that I will be interacting with my map frequently/trying to learn some new navigation skills, my fear is that I will indeed miss seeing one and step on it by mistake. For what its worth, I will have my inReach on me. I am honestly more concerned about a medical bill worse case scenario (rescue, anti-venom, etc..)

With that said, I had planned on doing this at Quehanna Wild Area as it was suggested to me on a previous post for having very minimal people around (I guess this is the caveat lol). My question to you I suppose is, is there a general consensus of which state forest have more snakes than others? I want to work my way up so that I can get a better feel of how frequent these encounters are, as well as how aware I really am of my surroundings. Believe it or not, I am more concerned about copperheads than rattlesnakes. Copperheads camouflage just so ridiculously well while rattlesnakes have the courtesy to at the very least inform me of their presence.

I was considering snake gaiters, but they seem a bit overkill (bulky/heavy), let alone expensive. But if this is what it takes to get me outdoors, then so be it.

The map I uploaded shows in blue the trail/camping area I was planning on doing sometime July/August.

https://imgur.com/a/tA8dKg6

Apologize for the lengthy post. Thank you.

Tldr: If you had to arrange state forests in PA from least to most snakes, what would that list look like?

Just a reminder to everyone that for much of PA, Saturday (May 4th) is the start of spring gobbler season. Hunting is generally permitted through May 18th from 1/2 hour before sunrise until noon, then until 1/2 hour after sunset for the rest of the month.

The vast majority of hunters are responsible and safe, but be aware of safe practices during this season:

• Wear orange: turkey hunters are not required to wear blaze orange while sitting but you should.
• Avoid red and blue: hunters may be keyed in to these colors, as they're found on gobblers.
• Humans and turkeys both have two legs, so know you may sound like a turkey to a hunter.
• Stay out of state game lands.

Hey all. Going on my first hike since moving to PA (Lower Bucks / Philly) and I'm meeting up with a friend who lives in Columbia, MD. I was looking primarily in the area around York and the Mason Dixon Trail, but I noticed a lot of it has road hiking which I was trying to avoid. Also, since it's our first PA hike/backpacking trip, we're trying to avoid sections that are too rocky. We're moderately experienced hikers but don't want to dive straight in.

We're both willing to drive ~2hrs if that expands the search any!

Thanks!