Genjutsu arguments are boring and dumb. Who you got?
Vs BattlesGenjutsu arguments are valid
I’m not gonna ignore an entire catagory of abilities just because you find it boring
Alright. You can still make your arguments. Go ahead.
Frog song gg XD lol
Valid.
😂😂😂
Just because I find it boring and dumb doesn't make it an invalid argument lol. I just want something else since that doesn't interest me.
Wasnt arguin was jus laughin w you man
My b
Takes far too long to set up, Jiraiya won't conveniently find a hiding place everytime like he did against Pain.
If Oro gets to start with his edos, then Jiraiya gets to start off in sage mode with Ma+Pa from the start of the fight.
I was talking about the frog song, it takes time to set up
What set up exactly are you talking about
Need to hide and then start singing. Because it takes time for the song to take effect on the enemy. If the enemy attacks before it gets caught in the genjutsu, then Jiraiya could lose
Based on what? His fight with pain? He only waited to make sure he could catch all 3 at the same time. The genjutsu itself was instant. Against one target there's no set up needed.
Wrong. Watch that scene again where Jiraiya is running in the pipes and Ma and Pa explain to him how the genjutsu works
I feel like if he could find hiding places against rinnegan users, he could do it against Orochimaru. Although, maybe I forget enough details of the Jiraiya VS Pain fight. It's been awhile.
Edo Hashirama alone destroys Jiraya faster than Ma and Pa can use their genjutsu
Orochimaru just cuts off his hearing like Kabuto cut off his vision.
Edo Hashirama violates Jiraya with his own genjutsu before Ma and Pa have any time to save Jiraya's ass.
You mean the Edo Hasirama that the Third fought? He was much less powerful.
Doesn't really matter. Would still slam the fuck out of Jiraya.
Dude couldn't even beat 80 year old Hiruzen 3v1?
First and Second were nerfed as Edos in that fight with Hiruzen because of those tags and Orochimsru hadn't perfected the jutsu yet.
Yes and that's the version of Orochi (and therefore the Edos he has access to) OP has declared is fighting here. Obviously if it's the War arc Edo Hasirama it's a spite match.
Also I don't think Oro ever perfected the Justsu any further during Shippiden from what we saw, that was all Kabuto.
80 year old Hiruzen > SM Jiraya
Lol damn thats a crazy take that is so wrong.
80 year old Hiruzen would get stomped fighting Pein like SM Jiriaya did.
Pain is one of the strongest characters in the series.
I don't think any of the Sannin would have been able to beat Pain.
If anyone had the best chances it would be Hiruzen with his immense levels of jutsu, except he has bad stamina if you restrict him to his 80 year old self. And even at 80 he was considered the strongest of the Gokage.
Jiraya's dream opponent was Hiruzen before Orochimaru killed Hiruzen - databook 1
Hi
Oh my god are you the person who's been turning me into a Sakura glazer? Please god I'm begging you turn the genjutsu off. I can't keep living like this.
What version of Oro is this?
Doesn't matter, Oro will win. Just want to know what difficulty.
The version that fought Hiruzen without his "Am I really about to kill my sensei" mental debuff
Jiraya slams. That version of Orochimaru was pretty weak.
Yeah they already fought too, they had to nerf jiraya just so they could stalemate. I don’t know why everyone remembers orochimaru was nerfed, but forget that jiraya was poisoned before the fight by tsunade.
Edo Hashirama that fought Hiruzen > Sage Jiraya
I just a bystander in this subreddit, but is this statement true? Only because if so, it really makes me realise how much I underestimated the 3rd Hokage
It's my opinion but it is most likely true.
Edo Hashirama and Tobirama even during the Hiruzen fight were still high kage level opponents.
Hashirama's wood style alone is OP and Tobirama was using water style from nothing.
In Shippuden due to power creeps they become far less impressive but for part 1, that was the peak of Shinobi combat and skill.
Sooooo Orochimaru and two High level Kage opponents couldn't low diff 1 80 year old Kage in a straight 3v1?
In fact it went to extreme diff.
That the Hashirama you are talking about?
The same Hashirama that shows off an A class genjutsu that would neg the fuck out of a Jiraya who has really poor sensory feats during the Pain fight and was crafted to be used against Uchiha during the warring states. that had Hiruzen stressing and acknowledging it's danger as a student of both Hokage . Jiraya would shit himself in this genjutsu and he cant retreat anywhere like he did against the 3 paths. He would just get fucked up and wouldn't be able to counter because he doesn't have the sensory feats.
The same Hashirama who's wood style binded Hiruzen who could keep up with Orochimaru, who is always outstated Jiraya every time they've come face to face. Edo Hashirama's deep forest emergence > Any sage jutsu from Jiraya
The same Hashirama who is an edo and Jiraya cannot seal without completely immobilising him first, which can only be done through Ma and Pa's frog song. Ma and Pa's attacks in general the Hokage can dodge considering they can dodge Monkey King Enma, who is stated to be the strongest summon and an equal to Hiruzen in the databooks. who also forced Orochimaru to lock in
Genjustu that MA and PA would just break Jiriyai out of?
Show the Panel of Oro being fast then SM Jiriaya who was keeping up with multiple paths of Pein.
Jiriyai has shown pretty extensive knowledge of Sage Jutsu, can trap them in a Swamp or frog stomach, and of course yes Frog Song.
Genjustu that MA and PA would just break Jiriyai out of?
They would be stuck in the genjutsu too.
Monkey King Enma didn't break Hiruzen out of it and Hiruzen was Hashirama's student so he knows the jutsu far better and even he had to depend on his other abilities instead of trying to break the genjutsu.
SM Jiriaya who was keeping up with multiple paths of Pein.
He wasn't keeping up with Pain, don't even try to use that argument.
Pain negged every single attack Jiraya had and made Jiraya run away - for example casually blocking his fastest jutsu. Pain was only reacting and had Jiraya thinking he was going to die and couldn't do a single thing to any of the 3 paths. Which is why he needed Ma and Pa's frog song. Go and read the fight again.
can trap them in a Swamp or frog stomach,
Deep forest emergence negs him before he tries any of his sage jutsu.
The only reason Hiruzen countered it was because of Monkey King Enma, who we see has AP and speed to counter branches of the divine tree when Edo Hiruzen saves Naruto in the war
and of course yes Frog Song.
Jiraya doesn't know that jutsu, Ma and Pa do. It's not his jutsu to use, they give it to him when he's fucking trash against the opponent - which according to Jirayatards means all the time.
But bringer of darkness counters hard because Ma and Pa are not fast to stop edo Hashirama or his wood jutsu that binds Jiraya, who is completely blind at this point and doesn't have the sensory feats or jutsu to counter. And neither Ma or Pa's sage jutsu is comparable to Tobirama levels of water style, which is what you would need to have a chance at cutting away the wood style.
Edo Hashirama just kills Jiraya. The only reason this didn't happen to Hiruzen is because Hiruzen showed the feats to compete with both Hokage's jutsu and Orochimaru was holding back to mock Hiruzen cuz he wanted to see this sealing jutsu (reaper death seal) and Hiruzen had the sense of smell to still fight back despite the genjutsu - which Jiraya doesn't.
Edo Hashirama hard counters.
They were significantly weaker
And still stronger than SM Jiraya.
False
Bringer of darkness negs Jiraya easily
Jiraiya precognition based on sage energy and sound. Doesn't need sight.
Jiraiya precognition based on sage energy and sound
That Hashi went extreme diff 3v1 vs Hiruzen?
Does he still have his arms and all his jutsu? If I remember right he wasn't really trying. He was trying to break Hiruzen mentally until he pulled out the reaper right? Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure
Damn, Jiraiya probably wins then, that orochimaru was hella weak frfr
Yup not like jiriyah could kill him anyway lol he needs a sealing jutsu to beat him lol even if jiriyah was stronger orochimaru could just stall till his sage mode runs out lol
Jiraya has seals tho
He sealed Amaterasu and has paper seals strong enough to seal 9 tails 3rd tail.
And that frog is a literal living seal.
Oro
Should be comparable to each other; goes either way
I hate these posts because they always start Jiraiya off in sage mode. That’s how you know it’s already an illogical comparison because the entire point about sage mode for Jiraiya is that it takes him a long time to prepare and he hates using the mode because of how it makes him look.
The fact that you have to start Jiraiya off in sage mode just for him to even stand a chance already tells you what you need to know.
It doesn't take him a long time. The anime made it look much longer than the manga
He’s reliant on summoning the elder toads because he’s terrible at gathering the chakra himself. That’s even worse, bro. He has to keep his hands held together for several minutes.
The only reason he got to pull it off against Pain is because he was fighting the weakest paths. Otherwise during that time he would have instantly died.
I know that. I am saying it doesn't him several minutes or as long as you think. The anime made it seem too long. In the manga it was a much quicker process
Everything is drawn out in the anime. But that doesn’t change the point that Jiraiya is put into a massive disadvantage when he needs to activate sage mode.
He almost died to 4 tail Naruto because of that reason. He was getting jumped and had no chance to summon the elder roads.
Jiraiya is put into a massive disadvantage when he needs to activate sage mode.
That's true. But he can summon Gamabunta while he runs off to enter Sage Mode. Gamabunta can hold off most opponents.
He almost died to 4 tail Naruto because of that reason. He was getting jumped and had no chance to summon the elder roads.
Well he also didn't want to kill Naruto. So he presumably held back.
Right but Gamabunta CANNOT hold off Orochimaru. Therefore Jiraiya would never get the chance to even attempt to use sage mode.
Right but Gamabunta CANNOT hold off Orochimaru.
I agree. Which is why ... OP said that Jiraiya starts the fight in Sage Mode.
They stated that in their original comment. The only reason Jiraiya is started in sage mode is because he can’t handle his opponent normally, but they think starting him in sage mode is ignoring the canonical disadvantage of why Jiraiya wouldn’t be able to use it anyway and thus lose.
Yep I agree. Jiraiya probably won't be able to enter SM against Orochimaru, he will have to start the fight with it to stand a chance of winning.
Gamabunta can hold off most opponents.
He's using a lot of chakra then since Gamabunta is a huge summon.
There's a reason he pulled out Gamaken, who is clearly weaker than Gamabunta because it probably allowed him to bring in more chakra for less time to get into Sage Mode.
Also, Manda hard counters Gamabunta and we've seen that in the Tsunade arc.
Well he also didn't want to kill Naruto
He couldn't have killed Naruto. 4 tails Bijuu Bomb > Jiraya's durability and possibly his AP.
There's a reason he pulled out Gamaken, who is clearly weaker than Gamabunta because it probably allowed him to bring in more chakra for less time to get into Sage Mode.
Gamabunta and Gamaken are nearly the same size. Watch the scene when Naruto shows up to the Leaf with them after Pain destroys the village. This chakra argument doesn't work.
Manda hard counters Gamabunta and we've seen that in the Tsunade arc.
I have already said before that Jiraiya probably wont be able to enter Sage Mode against Orochimaru and will have to start the fight with it. So not sure what's the point of saying this lol
Gamabunta is the superior toad though out of all of them. He's the one that Jiraya says he has struggled with controlling at full power. The one who actually knows Manda and Katsuyu and is part of the 3 way deadlock. The one that we see can use jutsu and combine attacks with Jiraya. The last person to summon Gamabunta before Naruto was Minato and Minato found him an adequate summon to hold Kurama down for a few seconds.
Gamaken has a shield and weapon and has none of the prestige of Gamabunta.
I don't think it's about size. Ma and Pa are stronger than Gamabunta and Gamaken together but they're pretty small, and still it takes longer to summon them than either Gamaken or Gamabunta.
Gamabunta would have fared much better against the animal summons than Gamaken did.
All correct. But I don't think the chakra argument is valid. Because they are nearly the same size 🤷♂️
Truth is IDK why Jiriaya chose to summon Gamaken instead. I have often thought about it. It's definitely not because of chakra though. Jiraiya has massive chakra reserves
he starts holding his hands together at the start of his fight with the animal path
Gamaken gets slammed by multiple animal summons before Jiraya goes into Sage Mode.
There's no clear time but the fight goes on long enough for Gamaken to have bruises across his face.
By the end of the chapter he summons Ma and Pa to get him to Sage Mode
In reality, Pain was holding back A LOT. Orochimaru won't. He doesn't need Edos to attack Jiraya straight on with superior jutsu. He's already beaten Jiraya once before. Jiraya will have to defend, which will mean he will have to break the chakra he's gathering.
Yes, it's much quicker than what happens in the anime
"Was fighting the weakest paths" AND he had places to hide, if Jiraiya fights someone in an open land he is toast, since he will get blitzed.
I mean here orochimaru also starts with his edos already summoned they both explicitly got buffs
Dumb.
Do you think that same logic would instantly invalidate match ups with world breaker hulk?
That's not 5he point of starting him off I sage mode, then start both characters off in thier respective strongest forms to see which is stronger, base orochi is stronger than jiraya, but if we were to put both into their strongest forms it changes, a little, it isn't because of lack of power, it's to shorten the argument
In a real fight you don’t start off in your max state. There is a high chance Jiraiya wouldn’t even be able to get to activate sage mode before he’s killed by Orochimaru so debating max forms is pointless.
Should always debate the full matchups.
Always debating full matchups just isn’t fun most the time because a lot of times when a character has a transformation against a character who is strong without one it just ends in “he can’t get the transformation off ggs” and that’s dumb. Like sage mode minato vs madara, Madara is stronger in base so you give the other character some leeway to make it an even fight instead of having boring fights (the minato v Madara matchup was an example and I have never thought about it don’t flame me for it)
In a real fight you don't just randomly have access to edos either.
This I understand, I feel that giving him edos was a dumb decision
Do you think Orochimaru w/ no edos vs base Jiraiya is close?
No
Jiraya already lost to that Orochimaru when he left the village
My blind ass read it as "Orochimaru weirdos" lmao
Jiraiya high-diff.
1: I like him more.
2: I like Oro less.
W take
Honest take, which is more than most can say.
Hydra Orochimaru > Sage Jiraiya (high diff)
Is this a version of Oro from the Captain America comics or am I missing something?
His eight headed hydra technique, the one he used when he broke out of Sasuke’s seal
I always thought of it as a serpent, isn’t that the name?
Eight headed hydra and eight headed serpent are both official names for it
Toad song stops this fight like tasukumi
Sage Jiraiya beats Base Orochimaru, but Hydra Orochimaru beats Sage Jiraiya.
What are Hydra Orochimaru's abilities even. Like what do we know about that form. Itachi's dealt with it easily with his Totsuka blade so we know nothing about it.
All we have to go off is that he felt confident he could take on a Susanoo without knowing about the blade. But then again he might have just wanted to fight him no matter the risks.
Was 100% a last ditch best effort at taking on Itachi and Sasuke
The featless form that got instantly neg diffed by Itachi?
Based on what lol.
The Sannin are all relative, so they this should pass over to their above Sannin forms, Sage Mode, the Hydra, and Strength of 100 Healings. This is consistent with Pain and Itachi being above the Sannin entirely, both beating one in their above Sannin form. Narratively, their above Sannin forms should all be relative similar to their base states.
Except Pein mid- hard diffed Jiriyai in his home turf with the advantage of knowing how Jiriyai fights but Jiriyai not knowing his secrets, and Itachi neg diffed Orochimaru.
And Pein is > Itachi
Orochimaru and Itachi both weren't at full power and Pain could have beaten Jiraiya right away if he had sent out all 6 Paths rather than 1, then 3, then 6.
Soooo it's unquantifiable and Hydra Oro has no ability to scale.
So, which arc is orochi from? Cause if he can use the kage he kinda just stomps, plus if he has his zetsu body he’s hard to actually kill
The version that fought Hiruzen without his "Am I really about to kill my sensei" mental debuff
If he still has access to the first and second hokage I’d say yea he still kills him,
The first and second couldn't be Hiruzen 3v1 with Orochimaru though. They were not that strong.
I think the KAGE of the sound village would have a counter to sound jutsu... Specially sound genjutsu...
Jiraiya tried many times for many years to drag Orochimaru back to Konoha. If Sage Mode would have worked, Jiraiya would have used it. So I’m going with Orochimaru.
Anyone allowed to use Edo is pretty much an insta win depending on who they're allowed to bring out. Wtf is Jiraiya gonna do against Hashirama, Itachi, Madara, or Obito?
Well depending on the circumstances of when the fight is obito and Itachi are still alive are you saying like if they fought right now?
Nvm this is all hypothetical carry on lol
I think jaryahs fight with pain is a better showing then orochis fight with the third so probably jaryah
Jiriaya
Orochimaru
Jiraiya
Jiraya. Hiruzen could outfight the two lol, Jiraya + Ma + Pa win this
This depends on which edos Orochimaru has
If he has the Hokages during the war arc then he stomps Jiraha with ease, if not, Jiraya wins if he somehow manages to hit Orochimaru with frog song. I doubt Jiraha could as it requires some time to prep and logically it should only be the speed of sound, a speed Orochimaru and his summons can avoid.
Noob quetion.Can orochimaru control war arc kage?
no
Other than Hashirama, probably yes. Tobirama also has a chance of breaking free. Hiruzen can 100% be controlled which is all Orochimaru needs tbh
If this is essentially the same fight as the 3rd vs Oro then it'll be tough to call. But I want to say Jiraya wins with a high amount of difficulty if not a stalemate. These weren't perfect edo summons like in the war arc but Sage mode can get past the darkness genjutsu 2nd put up and increases speed enough to be able to counter and fight back against the 1st and 2nd in those forms. The only real issue I see with Jiraya winning would be him sealing away the 2 edo kage while also managing to kill his friend who he was still trying to save
If you think they're both blood lusted with Jiraiya not holding back, how close do you think it is?
Let's say Jiraya saw him kill Tsunade and realized there really was no hope. I think he could win in his sage mode, but it might also cost him his life. It would be an extremely close fight, but Ma and Pa both have a good set of moves that would also assist Jiraya. It could also end up in everyone dying but I do think Jiraya holds just barely.
They are valid. It's a whole ass branch of Jutsu and very OP of you're good enough
Btw frog song gg
With Edos orochimaru clears (as long as he has bodies on hand) other wise it’s JIRAIYA mid-high diff
Orochimaru
If Jiraiya starts the fight in sage mode he wins mid/high diff, if both start in base Orochimaru takes it either low or extreme diff.
I swear I remember orochi fighting BOTH jiraiya and tsunade without being able to use his hands...
Does he have access to his arms? I am guessing yes? Well Orochimaru is tough to kill which is a big problem. He can shed his skin and recover from all his injuries multiple times. He also had the 8 headed serpent thing but we don't exactly know how strong that is. May be about as strong a Jiraiya in sage mode? He has poisons although you could argue Jiraiya has taken many antivenom's knowing he might fight Orochimaru one day.
Jariya is likely stronger in base if he has sage mode on plus Ma and Pa. He has the Rasengan which would force Orochimaru to shed his skin if he could get it to connect. He has a lot of chakra certainly more than Orochimaru since he can handle sage mode and Orochimaru can't.
Earlier in the series it's at least implied Orochimaru is stronger. Then they are basically tied then it kinda looks like Jiraiya is stronger but then again Orochimaru is so hard to kill. It all comes down to if you think Jiraiya can outlast Orochimaru.If he can Get Orochimaru to use so much chakra that he can't shed his skin anymore as apparently it costs a decent amount. I think he's more efficient using it than Sasuke so he can do it a number of times. I would expect at least 3-4 times. Orochimaru would have to find a way to kill Jiraiya before outlasts Orochimaru. Given his chakra advantages if the battle lasted long enough he would outlast him.
However if Jiraiya can mortally injure him more than once you think Orochimaru could do it at least once to Jiraiya, which is all it would take. It's implied Manda is stronger than Jiraiya's frog summonings. Might not be the case for ma and pa though. It's going to be a battle that lasts a long time and I suspect Orochimaru would have some tricks up his sleeves to counter act the stamina advantages Jiraiya has. No idea who wins honestly but would be extremely high diff, a Final Valley type fight.
Jiraya Pre-war Oro post-war They were about even, and both kept getting strong, but Jiraya died, and unless your Goku, that makes getting stronger harder.
Oro wins and I hate that he does, because theres nothing more boring than claiming some other fighters power as your own.
Orochimaru destroys
He's always been above Jiraya in pretty much every way.
Anybody trying to say they're relative because they're Sannin are coping so hard.
Going with jiraya. His performance against pain was decent. Orochimaru got negged by Itachi and negged by sasuke (although he was weakened)
Oro wins
Orochimaru would absolutely humilliate especially with Edo tensei, fraudraiya stands no chance
"But frog song 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓" it takes a Lot of time to use it and by the time he can use it he would already be dead
Now imagine if it's eos orochimaru poor jiraiya
Orochimaru is practically immortal but this would be a pretty close fight only cuz sage but oro has way too many techniques
Orochimaru destroys Jiraiya with the only notable exception being Sasuke Retrieval orochimaru and then you're just intentionally nerfing orochimaru to let Jiraiya stand a chance
Idk who wins but we deserved to see this. You didn’t have to even add edos, cuz even of you set different rules that sneaky bastard would still do it.
Genuinely believe Orochimaru wouldn't even need edo's
Isn't the whole point of the 3-way deadlock that Oro beats Jiraya, Jiraya beats Tsunade, and Tsunade beats Oro?
That aside, I still feel Oro takes this match.
Oro with edos Hashirama and Tobirama?
Depends, if were talking OG Naruto Edos, my GOAT washes. If were talking Shippuden Edos? Yeah hes fucked
If Jiraiya is starting in safe mode and doesn’t have t gather Sage chakra, he just opens with frog song and wins.
with edos orochi beats everyone because he can straight up pull a kabuto and summon every strong shinobi from the past.
without edo jiraiya wins even without genjutsu.
Jiraiya is the most well rounded and strongest sannin without prep. What makes orochi insane is that he has world shattering hax if he gets prep
Jiraiya would win unless Orochimaru summons the Hokage as Edo’s. Every Edo up to the Pain Arc Sage Jiraiya could handle except those.
Jiraiya fared much better against pain than Orochimaru. Now iirc Orochimaru didn't have edo's when he fought pain, but the difference was big enough that I think this goes to Jiraiya
When did oro fight pain
In the "Creation of Akatsuki" movie, I'm pretty sure it's canon
I believe this is the full movie (might have some cuts): https://youtu.be/WLNva5znwvo?si=K-9Rq7z1fYObE9se
Edit: rewatched the scene and it wasn't how I remembered it. It was less of a fight and more of a very brief spat in which they both came to the understanding that Pain was much more powerful than Oro, and that was just Deva Path, whereas Jiraiya put up a good fight against all 6
Jiraiya put up a good fight against all 6 ? When
When he went to the rain village. I guess all 6 didn't show up until later but he did kill like 3 of them. If he'd had as much information as Naruto did when he fought Pain Jiraiya would have totally won. If it weren't for the Naraka path Jiraiya could have won with no prior knowledge. I think that fight was a lot closer than people think
You got it the other way round. This fight would have been one sided if Jiraiya fought Pain on an open field like Naruto. No place to run to enter Sage Mode, no place to hide to use Frog Song. It was only due to the location that Jiraiya was able to put up a good fight.
I didn't say anything about the location, only that with more information Jiraiya would have beat Pain
But with info this won't be a fair fight
It’s not canon and besides, orochimaru “fought” the strongest pain while jiraiya fought much weaker one.
Jiraiya did not put up a good fight against 6 of them, he only fought 3 and admitted inferiority to them
Went and rewatched the fight, he won against the three, yes he admitted inferiority to them, but even before the genjutsu activated he was doing quite well. He had one occupied absorbing a jutsu, another stuck in a mud jutsu. He then was about to kill the third one anyway when the genjutsu went off. He assumed 3 was all there was and so got caught off guard when the other 3 showed up. He took a devastating blow from that surprise attack (losing an arm) and then still fared better against all 6 than Orochimaru did against just one, still managing to kill one of them.
Orochimaru and pain should not be considered a fight. Oro literally just rushed in, got blasted, shrugged it off and even smiled after tanking w massive shinra tensei, which was more powerful than anything pain used against Jiraiya. At no point did Orochimaru attempt to use any of his ninjutsu, edo tensei, his hydra etc.. Saying Jiraiya performed better against Pain when Oro did nothing other than casually charge at him once is not exactly accurate. Jiraiya was fighting seriously, Oro wasn’t. Even Kakashi did somewhat okay and reacted to the deva path when fighting seriously, Oro would’ve done the same if it was a genuine fight. Not saying he wins, but he would have performed a lot better if he genuinely used his wide range of abilities in that fight instead of recklessly charging for the rinnegan. If Jiraiya faced tendo from the start, that single shinra tensei that leveled the forest would’ve killed/ badly injured him and he likely never even gets to sage mode.
Don't think I watched this one, thanks bro
Nope. Not canon. Only canon movies are Boruto and The Last. Except Boruto (the movie) stopped being canon once the manga was released (karma doesn’t exist in the Boruto movie).
Jiryiya was throwing hands with the pains all them outscale orochimaru. Why is this a question again?
Jirayia nearly beat Nagato while at multiple disadvantages with zero prep time. Orochimaru went into a fight versus retirement arc Hiruzen with two high tier edo tensei and prep time only to still nearly die lol. He's massively overhyped because Kabuto and Sasuke use his techniques better
How did Jiraiya nearly beat Nagato when 6 Paths of Pain perception speed blitz sage jiraiya and hit him so hard it knocked him out of sage mode the moment Pai started taking him seriously?
Jiraiya didn’t even come a teensy, tiny bit close to beating Nagato. Nagato only acknowledged Jiraiya might have had a chance if he figured out there were 6 Paths of Pain.
Depends on who Orochimaru has for his edo’s. If they’re high tier enough then he wins. But that’s assuming he has the level of control Kabuto did over them. And we know for a fact that the 1st and 2nd Kages would break out of his control most likely. So… yeah.
You do realize that Tobirama was not capable of breaking out of Orochimaru’s control, right? Like it is explicitly confirmed. Only Hashirama could break free from Orochimaru’s control.
Yes, but that appeared to take considerable concentration on his part. And having multiple edo’s of a high level would make it even riskier I assume. So the 2nd should still be able to break free under the right conditions. Also, Madara said it himself: the control of jutsu can be undone if you know the right hand signals. You can’t tell me that Tobirama wouldn’t know those as the inventor of the jutsu.
Orochimaru seems to be doing just fine. And of course I can tell you that. Lmao. If Tobirama knew the hand signs, he would have used the hand signs.
Jiraiya > Itachi > Orochimaru full stop
Orochimaru summons Nagato, sits back and watches the show.
This version of Orochimaru gets stomped by Sage Jiraiya, especially with Ma/Pa. This version of Oro and the Edo Hokage scale low to Shippuden. This version of Jiraiya is a slight tier below Pain. And this version of Oro stands 0 chance against Pain.
Jiraiya stomps; Orochimaru has been a hype job for nearly the entirety of the series and his arsenal is no where near as impressive. Literally all he has that’s an actual threat is Edo Tensei and that in itself requires prep.
Sage Mode Jiraiya absolutely stomps Orochimaru.
As for Edo Tensei, people tend to forget that it requires preparations beforehand – actually putting a soul in some body. These coffins is basically just a glorified summoning jutsu and there is case to be made that Jiraiya can stop them similar to Hiruzen.
Jiraiya. Orochimaru’s feats pale in comparison and needed to fight nerfed Tsunade and Jiraiya when he was poisoned, unable to fuse chakra or move his body properly
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