www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna158729
Judge halts further student loan forgiveness under part of Biden's new repayment plan
NewsJust start calling them ppp loans then no one will have much of a problem forgiving them.
I honestly regret not lying to get a PPP loan because apparently they’re not bothering to go after anyone who took less than 100k. I could have my loan already paid off if I was an unscrupulous person.
My mom owns a small business and had 1 part time employee. She took 15k, gave the employee 5k and then built a pool and pocketed t he rest. I told her at the time that was a bad idea. They forgave her loan for her.
But now she’s going to The Bad Place
Oh fork
Corporate America is beginner business.
Corporations pay government officials to vote the way they want against the people who actually voted for them and let them syphon money from the government through loans that are easily forgiven 'cuz biznez' while griping about forgiving the people's loans who just want the corporations to just pay taxes.
It's a weird flex for them to be anti worker and anti immigrant when it should be pro worker like the old days cause we want all the best people working here. Instead they just want to cheap out on everything. It's like... their first time or something. Tis weird.
I got sued by a debt collection company during Covid that had their ppp loans forgiven that year.
Seriously, lol, how fucking crazy is that. And the judge sided with the company haha. I even brought the evidence to court by looking up public records.
Call it “start-up loans”…. You need education start and up your career anyway.
While kind of ridiculous, PPP was legislated by Congress who had the power to do it. Congress did not legislate student loan forgiveness. Rather, Biden attempted to do it via executive order. Had Congress legislated it, the program would have stood. Honestly it was pretty cruel of Biden to do that as he had to have known it would not stand a court challenge.
If you think PPP loans are similar or the same to student loans then my mortgage also deserves to be forgiven since all loans are the same and if one loan is being forgiven, all loans should be forgiven.
Did you think we would say no to this?
If only inflation wasn’t a thing
I mean, it’s not really. What we’re experiencing is corporate greed, not normal inflation that is caused by economic policy.
Housing should not be a commodity
Anyone else feel like the courts have lost all credibility and legitimacy?
Pretty much, yeah.
Absolutely. Our justice system has been hijacked for the elites for a very long time.
And the gap between the elites and the rest of us is growing larger by the second
These judges were so appointed by Obama so I can't imagine they were politically aligned
“Roe is settled law.”
Too bad millennials don’t vote
Too bad both choices are bought and owned by the 1%
You're saying this in a thread about one side trying to do a thing and the other side stopping them. Fuckin' lol.
Theatre is full of stories like that, but it's still theatre
The both sides crap ultimately plays into the MAGA card though. Have fun with that.
...but they both take billions in lobbyist cash? Am I missing something?
This is a weird endorsement for controlled opposition
This is a bad take. This is exactly why the courts have lost legitimacy.
One side believes in rule of law, one side thinks they are above the law and that rules are for poor people and their enemies.
If you think democrats aren't corrupt, I've got a bridge to sell you. AIPAC money, big oil money, big pharma money, literally just follow the donations and you will understand why our government is the way it is. Citizens United destroyed what remained of American democracy, it's all about $$$$$ now. See: Jamal Bowman
What are you going to do about it?
Not vote
/s
Kinda sad how our generation doesn’t vote. Vote and protest , not much protest though because they kinda scared to do so
It’s been too long since the masses put the heads of the elites on spikes and it really shows
Have you ever actually looked at the voting numbers by percentage/age?
We don’t really vote less than other generations. It’s an age thing. And a little variance based on candidates.
Check the graph in this article
The difference between each generation at any comparative age is typically a few percent
30% of eligible voters voted in 18-29bracket
That’s dogshit too
And it’s about genz voting more than millennials
THAT FURTHER PROVES MY POINT, our generation doesn’t vote
Did you read the article mate? /u/Levitlame
Did you actually look at the numbers? It’s always been dogshit at younger ages. AGAIN… The difference is a few percent between generations at the same stages in their lives. Do you think a few percent drop off is some huge generational failure?
I'm going to amass resources and run for office.
For real? You should run as “bootywizard” on the ballot
Plus everyone who steadfastly stands by that "parliamentarian" bullshit.
Never had credibility or legitimacy in the first place
This affirms the court’s credibility. Congress has the power to do student loan forgiveness through legislation. The president through unilateral executive order does not. The system of checks and balances operated as designed.
Mabye not through executive order, but actually under the 1965 Higher Education Act the secretary of education has the authority to do essentially do whatever they want with the loans. The fed owns around 90% of student loan debt so it stands to reason that they can just whipe the slate clean.
The approval rating of the courts is plunging and I wouldn't be surprised if Biden gets control of congress and threatens to pack the court. He'd have the support of the people and after all under the Constitution, the number of Supreme Court Justices is not fixed.
TBD. I wouldn’t be hopeful. I would have expected if that was the better argument they would have used it the first time.
This comment section not only doesn’t pass the vibe check, but has made me realize why there’s been a resurgence of people using the r-word.
It’s so easy to sit here as a grown ass adult and understand modern finance and its consequence. Kids do not. Boomers do not. Many schools cost upwards of $90k for just the first year. As someone who didn’t get a degree, no amount of experience or proven success has helped me job hunting in the last few years. I have been repeatedly rejected for not having a degree— not even a specific degree. Any at all.
If we can bail out major corps, Wall Street, entire countries at war, we can spend on our own students you absolute losers. We have spent more on war in less than 2 years than the student loan forgiveness plan would across ten years.
Don’t forget the hundreds of billions of PPP loans forgiven
Conservatives just HATE the idea of the people they see as ideological enemies getting any kind of “handouts”.
Notice they are silent about farm bailouts or the non stop agriculture and fossil fuel subsidies
Because they see those as going towards their “team”.
And oil subsidies, auto industry bailouts, airline subsidies, bank bailouts, and so on. They also love the endless gutting of laws and regulations meant to protect Americans all to create temporary profit bumps for the megacorps.
What gets me is the overall benefit it would have. An educated populace, where education is not dependent on your parents' wealth but on your own efforts, having the means to live and further create wealth without being beholden to some financial corporation that ultimately is creating no new wealth, just syphoning it off those workers? That benefits everyone. Every single person, maybe not directly, but in an overall way benefits from that. That is part of an efficient civilization.
Saying you oppose that is the epitome of eating a pile of dog crap if it means someone else has to smell your breath. Congrats bud, I'm sure the billionaire dickhole who'd like nothing more than to have their hand even further down your pocket than it already likely is will thank you for the saliva boot shine.
In the republican hive mind, education=indoctrination. As has been shown, they don’t see any benefit in educating the masses.
I remember following the 2008 recession that the banks and car companies were bailed out, while banks still were foreclosing on people’s homes. Bailing out those who caused the problem was ok but helping people stay in their homes was something akin to socialism.
Student debt is intentional; debt is imposed on students to prevent young educated people from having the time or energy to protest what the United States government is doing here and abroad. This is by design and has been the modus operendi of the GOP since well before the 1980s. If the people are educated, they might collectively realize their worth and fight for their rights. Gotta keep them divided, alone and in debt to maintain control.
Ronald Reagan campaigned for governor of California in 1966 in part by promising to “clean up the mess at Berkeley.”
In his letter to Dumke, Reagan criticizes liberal activism on campuses. He condemns "these people & this trash" on campuses as well as "the excuse of academic freedom & freedom of expression" in allowing protests and demonstrations to go on. "We wouldn’t tolerate this kind of language in front of our families," Reagan writes of campus protesters. He urges Dumke to "lay down some rules of conduct," promising that "you’d have all the backing I could give you."
Later, in 1970 during his reelection campaign, Governor Reagan’s education adviser Roger A. Freeman spoke at a press conference to defend Reagan’s controversial policy of shutting down all 28 UC and Cal State campuses in the midst of student protests against the Vietnam War and the U.S. bombing of Cambodia.
According to a San Fransisco Chronicle article, Freeman said, “We are in danger of producing an educated proletariat. … That’s dynamite! We have to be selective on who we allow [to go to college]. If not, we will have a large number of highly trained and unemployed people.” Freeman also said — taking a highly idiosyncratic perspective on the cause of fascism —“that’s what happened in Germany. I saw it happen.”
The university system in California used to be free for all state residents. Reagan ended that. The attacks on education didn’t end there; by 1988, several tax cuts later and the end of Reagan’s second term as president, the federal government’s contribution to education nationwide was slashed by half.
We could end student debt but if we did, the educated youth would be reinvigorated, something the rich and powerful absolutely do not want, so they refuse to solve the problem of student debt because in their eyes this debt isn't a problem at all, but an orchestrated solution to the larger problem of a collective uprising against the status quo.
Can bail out corps, but god forbid we bail out loans that majority were taken out by 17-18 year olds….essentially minors. And it’s not like we came up with that idea ourselves…
If you understand modern finance then you can clearly see that this does not solve issues like tuition costs. It's not even a band-aid.
Believe it or not we can actually work on more than one problem.
This is not that though
Loan forgiveness only increases the college costs for the next generation. Colleges know they can keep increasing prices…
Right, like if I pay for someone’s meal obviously the next person after them has to pay more. Because woke.
You do realize that college tuition has gone up several times that of inflation. Right? The cause has been due to increase in financial aid. Colleges realized they can keep increasing tuition without any consequences…
That’s like saying the cost of cereal is going up bc General Mills keeps buying up their own product. I love that I’m including figures of tuition and you for some reason think that, despite me using real costs in my arguments, that I don’t understand that college is ungodly expensive.
Colleges have massive endowments as well as funding. The state university in my city pays their hockey coach over half a million a year— that’s more than the president of the school makes. Northwestern, for example, has an endowment of over $16 billion dollars. But costs $90k to attend your first year.
The rising costs have nothing to do with giving a portion of their students reduced tuition.
What do you attribute the increase in tuition costs?
Nobody is expecting kids to understand finance. People taking college loans are full grown adults who understand it. They took out a loan...they should pay it back. Just like if you get a loan for a csr or a house.
Idk how to explain to you that 17 and 18 year olds are not “full grown adults” with even baseline financial literacy. They can’t rent a car bc it’s a liability but sure, take out $90k in loans for a year of school alone. Extremely sensical.
It’s not only that they ToOk OuT a LoAn, it’s that they’re taught it the only option for them and blindly pushed into it by our education system and our culture as a whole. They’re made to think they HAVE to be in debt for life to a system that robs them blind; the schools, the government, and private loan companies.
Umm they are full grown adults. Sorry. They can take out loans and enter into contracts and take out credit and so on.
They chose to go to college and chose to take out loans. Many were irresponsible about it. The data shows people took out loans than dropped out. People used loans to pay for housing to go off to have fun instead if get a degree that would have a good ROI.
Most degrees still have a positive ROI. They made a choice and have buyers remorse and rather than accepting the consequences they want a handout.
People might agree with you more if anyone used the same logic on corporate bailouts for far larger sums. It's kind of disgusting there's this level of discussion on student loan forgiveness being about "poor planning" and not corporate bailouts when corporations had entire boards of professionals making their financial decisions, and should even moreso than any student ever, have been prepared to deal with risks
Well I am also quite against corporate bailouts.
Your position is therefore logical. I'm just actually more against corporate bailouts than I would be against student loan forgiveness since to me, college students should be way less expected to be super great at making financial decisions compared to a corporation. Who pays a team of people to evaluate risks and choose path
You continue to talk out of your ass. Dropping out can come from a multitude of reasons and should not be punished by a life of crippling debt. Of course people take out loans for schooling— have you seen the cost of rent in America? I’m in a large town of 30k people in central Maine and the housing cost here rivals that of Boston. How do you expect students to pay rent? Not to mention you are required by most schools to live on campus and purchase a meal plan year one, all which are paid for in loans. These kids are literal credit ghosts— if they went into a bank for a car loan with no credit and no assets as collateral they’d be laughed out of the building.
You say they’re grown enough to sign off on huge debt yet you then go on to call them irresponsible— which is it? Are they responsible financially literate adults or are they irresponsible liabilities (dumb kids)?
What college did you go to btw, I want to make sure my future kids don’t go there.
Dropping out in and of itself isnt punished. Taking out a loan and then dropping out is just idiocy. It's like buying a car and never taking care of it so it breaks down and you are underwater. Life long debt wad their choice. It's on those adults to figure out how to cover their expenses. Do you think people should just not pay mortgages or cc debt?
Being old enough to take debt doesn't make you responsible. It makes you an adult who is responsible to make yourself financially literate...or don't and deal with the fall out.
As I said, dropping out can be for a plethora of reasons including health and finances. It’s not your role to decide what is and isn’t excusable for people in higher ed.
Mortgages and credit cards debts are not akin to required education or necessary medical expenses. It’s laughable that you think that makes sense.
How is it a 17 years old’s responsibility to “make themself” financially literate? They’re 17, in highschool, doing extra curriculars, and working. Most adult Americans barely understand basic math let alone finance, interest, and taxes. You have a really radically nuts way of thinking, dude.
They don’t have to pay for schooling k-12, why should the next required step for 90% of career fields suddenly cost tens of thousands of dollars per year? Or should we just get rid of school all together since apparently it’s each kid’s responsibility to teach themself all advanced life skills by your standards.
ok bootlicker
How is paying bsck your debt licking boots? I think people should pay mortgages and credit card debt too.
Mortgages and credit cards are not comparable to education or medical expenses.
Yes they are. Those are still goods and services that cost money to provide. Those are both businesses whose purpose is to make money.
That’s like saying murder and shoplifting food are the same bc they’re both crimes that are against the law. Medical expenses and college OR trade school are necessities in life. Taking out a credit card to max out at TJ Maxx or having a huge mortgage aren’t.
I can feel you numbing my brain, I’m going to tap out. Studies show people do not change their mind, I’d say you are living proof of that.
There are more differences between murder and shoplifting than medical/school expenses and TJ maxx or a mortgage.
Them being necessities doesn't make the end user entitled to them though. They still need to be paid for in some way shape or form. They take people to provide a service and goods are involved in said service. You just found a small difference and think it proves a point.Are you willing to change your mind at all?
by holding that opinion (in itself a regurgitated, asinine boomer/republican talking point), it can be reasonably assumed that you're one of three things:
- a shitty boomer that coasted through paying pennies on the dollar and screwing everyone that came behind you
-OR-
- someone who didn't attend college and therefore has no real understanding of the insane costs involved and the pressure us millennials faced from trusted adults and parents telling us we'd be nothing without a degree. also applicable to people that constantly say "why doesn't everyone just learn a trade?!?!"
-OR-
- someone who didn't have to take loans due to rich parents
whichever case applies, you have taken a system that is oppressing an entire generation and you're cheerleading for it. you are happily licking its boots clean as it trods all over millions. it doesn't affect you personally, after all. you lack empathy for your fellow person. you are the asshole asking why people oppressed and killed by the police don't just "stop resisting".
you don't understand the situation. fuck off outta here, adults are talking.
Or option 4. I made smart decisions with how I used debt from college and got an roi that made it simple to pay off my loans like a lot of people did. Nobody is being oppressed. They had a choice not to take a loan. There are ways to make the loan a good investment. The governments budget doesn't affect me?
Take responsibility... stop blaming everybody but yourself. That's the issue...people just want to blame their parents and act like they had no choice in anything that happened and no ability to do research.do research.
You are comparing getting killed by police to paying back a loan you agreed to?
Or option 4. I made smart decisions with how I used debt from college and got an roi that made it simple to pay off my loans like a lot of people did.
not everybody looks at it this way, in fact I'd wager a great majority don't. once again your lack of empathy comes through. you don't seem to be able to understand that maybe some folks went in to get a degree in a thing they were interested in and enjoyed learning about, and wanted to make a career of instead of "what's going to make me the most money". by that line of thinking, we should all aspire to be doctors and lawyers, but oh there's that pesky bugbear of those being cost prohibitive.
Nobody is being oppressed. They had a choice not to take a loan.
in my case and a lot of cases, it eventually became "take a loan or don't finish your education". but that's somehow my fault, right? not a cruel and uncaring system furthered by people that did the same at a much lower cost, nah couldn't be that
Take responsibility... stop blaming everybody but yourself. That's the issue...people just want to blame their parents and act like they had no choice in anything that happened and no ability to do research.do research.
more boomer bootlicking. they're not gonna fuck you, dude. here's a better understanding, let's use my parents as an example: mom got through college in 1976. dad didn't complete his degree and went to work for southwestern bell. until he retired at 31 years in, dad always came home, sweaty or frozen depending on the season, and constantly told all three of us to "go get your degree so you don't have to do what I do". two out of three of us took that to heart.
I found one of her receipts once, the tuition total for a semester was $308. historical data for my first year (2002) at my and her alma mater shows an average tuition cost for 15 credit hours of $1,458 (at a state school). considering that in 1989 (the last year my alma mater keeps records of), tuition AND fees averaged $730. 2023 averaged $4,981 for just tuition.
research my dick and balls, this was just how it was and we didn't have a choice. this was the safe, inexpensive option. everyone from my parents to my teachers to my guidance counselor pushed a college education HARD. I knew where I wanted to go and also knew it'd be cheaper than anything out of state. by your calculus, that's a smart move, but you'll still decry me as lacking responsibility or whatever other conservative bullshit you're parroting.
it's CLEARLY all my fault and none of it lies with adults I trusted to have my best interests in mind. the same adults that could afford an entire semester of classes AND books AND lodging by flipping burgers over the summer. the same adults that turned around and kicked the ladder down so nobody else got what they had. the same adults that now refuse to retire and get out of the way so maybe we can work on fixing all the shit they broke and made the american dream they so easily achieved impossible for anyone after them. these are the people you're aligning with. in a just society, you'd all face the wall. collaborators get got too.
You are comparing getting killed by police to paying back a loan you agreed to?
for all the education you claim to have, your reading comprehension skills fucking suck.
"what's going to make me the most money". by that line of thinking, we should all aspire to be doctors and lawyers, but oh there's that pesky bugbear of those being cost prohibitive.
Or at least whats going to make me enough money for this to be worthwhile. Or even will i bother to finish so i even get a degree?
"take a loan or don't finish your education". but that's somehow my fault, right?
What you do with that information is. You can choose how to maximize that loan.
"go get your degree so you don't have to do what I do". two out of three of us took that to heart.
Did you do any research outside of that or just blindly listen to one person?
it's CLEARLY all my fault and none of it lies with adults I trusted to have my best interests in mind.
Yea if you just blindly listened to people that is your fault. You act like you had zero choices in the matter..no way to see if it was a good decision.
maybe we can work on fixing all the shit they broke and made the american dream they so easily achieved impossible for anyone after them.
What did they break exactly? Is the fact you have to earn things you want and need your definition of the system being broken?
You are blaming everybody else and act like you weren't a fully grown adult capable of making decisions. Do you think you made any mistakes in your choices? Do you think bad choices shouldnt come with the possability of lifelong and devastating consequences?
When corporations broke the social contract with record profits, record stock buybacks, and still have record layoffs....there's the issue.
A student loan is not the same as a car or house loan. We were lied to, I can't just create a competitor to most of these corporations....small business is nearly dead in America. What am I going to start, a book store, a clothing store, a small grocery store???? Ain't nothing left.
I can't sell my loans back to get out from under...you know, like you can for a house or a car. There's no way out and no way to make the loans pay for themselves.
America and it's politicians went all in for corporate America and they went all in on cost cutting.
I could go on and on...but I want you to realize that student loans are not the same as a car or house loan.
Corproations didn't break any social contract. What lies were you told exactly? Plenty of small business do quite well in the US and the goal is to start small and expand into a large business.
There is a way to make the loan pay for itself. Get a degree with an roi. There is a way out...its called pay it.
Plenty of people are able to pay off their loans...and when the majority who don't csnt because they didn't bother finishing to get the degree thay says a lot.
RECORD PROFITS, RECORD STICK BUYBACKS, RECORD LAYOFFS
You just spout basic talking points without even addressing the main point. You probably love phrases like "fair market value", "ROI", and all that bs. There's more societal value in being a teacher than there is a stockbroker..but since there isn't a good roi...no one should teach, right? There's more value in an educated union uaw employee than a lazy ass investor.
RECORD PROFITS, RECORD STICK BUYBACKS, RECORD LAYOFFS
thats not a talking point?
That is also not relevant to this conversation at all. Yes a business has a goal of maximizing profit. An employee has a goal to maximize salary. This is at its root a financial discussion so yes fair market value and ROI are relevant points.
Societal value doesnt have a lot of wait. Sure a teacher has more societal value but tell ever parent a class of 30 they will be charged 1K a year to give teachers a raise and see how they respond. How many parents donate to schools so teachers dont have to buy supplies?
Didn't say nobody should teach. But you don't need to go to an out-of-state school or a private university or live in dorms to get a degree/credential to allow you to do so.
Yea, I'm not sure where folks get off thinking their student loans should be forgiven. Also, there are much cheaper methods of acquiring a degree.
Yup...its called go to a local state school.
ok yeah I did exactly that, in fact, I never went out of state, and still wound up with $25k in debt when I graduated. wow, almost seems like I did everything right, like the adults I trusted counselled me to
you don't get it and you don't care to. take your bootlicking shit elsewhere.
25K is less than a car loan. Your saying a jib you can get with a degree doesn't pay you enough for a car loan?
What's there to get? Nobody has an explanation as to why a debt they agreed to as an adult should be forgiven other than they not liking the debt and calling people a bootlicker.
myself and others have given you clear explanations of how the system is rigged and overly expensive and you just keep repeating this responsibility bullshit and telling us it's our own fault that we didn't understand that we were being chained to huge amounts of debt that we'd probably never get out of for the crime of seeking an education and bettering ourselves. how dare we.
you don't have an answer, and you really don't understand the situation. you can't put yourself in the shoes of anyone else and understand that maybe the circumstances were different than what you experienced. you're the perfect mouthpiece for boomer horseshit, just happily spitting their stupid lines and grinning when they pat you on your little head and tell you you're a good boy. you're their perfect creation, after all, literally "fuck you, got mine" made flesh with a healthy dose of lead to get rid of that pesky, useless empathy. you'd gladly throw any one of us under the bus as long as our blood didn't splatter on you.
you're clearly the only one that did it right and was responsible or whatever other bullshit you tell yourself.
bootlicker.
Can I just get a short deferment of 75 years?
Obama said it best: “Don’t boo! Vote!”
The judges were appointed by Obama.
This applies to the SAVE plan. For those who don’t know loans are only forgiven if under 12k and payments have been being made for at least 10 years. Also a huge part of the save plan is it calculates your payments off your monthly income, but if you’re payment doesn’t cover the interest accrual it removes it. It’s probably one of the better plans imo, even though deficit will raise
I’m interested to know the source of this information about 12k and ten years. I’ve never seen this anywhere.
Basically, unlike the full waiting time of 20 years, it’s cut based on the total amount of federal loans taken out. If your total is under 12k, you can have them forgiven in 10. 13k = 11 years. Or something like that.
Based on that pattern, I’ve got only 158 years more to go. Hell yeah
The pattern stops at the normal/previously established 20 (or 25?) year mark for forgiveness though. The new plan just allows some people to have their loans forgiven earlier.
Missouri, Arkansas, Kansas, Florida, Ohio, Georgia & North Dakota.
Shining beacons of educational excellence & self sufficiency.
[eye roll for the ages]
As a tax payer from a net-positive contributing state I would like to sue the Federal Government from providing any kind of funding to states that cannot meet their fiscal obligations & receive more than they contribute to the federal government.
Strip them of statehood and merge them with some other states. I don’t wanna even jokingly say the government should just surround the courthouse, seize it, and force the ruling, but it’s just the judiciary is in really bad shape right now.
i have the privilege of being able to pay off my debt. I would vote at any opportunity for forgiveness of loans for my peers.
You's good people
Thank you
Even people who are supposed to get their loans forgiven after 10 years of public service are unable to get their loans forgiven.
Incorrect. I’m in the PSLF program and have friends in it too. Several have had their loans forgiven since Biden took office. This court order has nothing to do with PSLF.
According to the student loan sub and the pslf sub this is not true.
PSLF is unaffected by this.
I'm beginning to think conservatives hate anything that lessens human suffering
They were obamas judges
No. It's unconstitutional. The House controls purse strings.
For many that JUST went into forbearance due to this july 1 rules looking over their accounts when at this time paused payments, enjoy the extra time. This a-hole is helping run out the clock for that forgiveness 20-25yr.
We are happy to have longer time than just the 1 month on this rule since its stopped now and court will run it for however longer on that pause. We are in forbear until aug prior to challenge, seem it will be longer now. This still counts the clock for that sweat forgiveness! lol
It’s utterly silly to do loan forgiveness without having mechanisms in place to lower the college tuition. If loans are forgiven, college fees will keep going up and up… they know taxpayers will eventually pay for it.
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People against student loan forgiveness are just fucking cunts. LET US HAVE SOMETHING NICE FOR ONCE.
Side note: I am in a networking group and the older people were talking about how many boomers are retiring to Portugal bc it’s “safe” (due to strict gun control) and “has free healthcare.” It infuriated me. They vote against us having that shit, ruin the fucking country, and then dip out to a place that has all the shit they said they hated. I can’t stand that generation. So fucking selfish.
Reddit is not real life.
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6d
Except that’s not how college was sold to us at all. I graduated high school in 2007 and every single adult told me to take out loans to pay for college because “it doesn’t matter what degree you get, you’ll get a high paying job to pay off your loans in no time.” I was 17 when I started applying for college and didn’t know any better, so of course I listened to the adults. I mean in hindsight I wouldn’t have gone to college but that’s in the past, and now I’m saddled with debt for practically my entire adult life paying off a degree that is useless. I don’t know why people like you mock people going to college when that’s what literally every adult was telling us to do.
I don’t know why people like you mock people going to college when that’s what literally every adult was telling us to do
Because you're lying lol. No one told you "major in anything and you'll make a ton of money". There were tons of resources that explained job placement rates, median and average salaries for specific majors, course completion rates by college, etc.
No one told you to do what you're claiming they did lol. Here's proof my dude. Projected salaries for dozens of majors. Many of them making it clear it won't be high paying
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6d
Yeah the way people approach college has changed drastically since I went to school. I ended up in an IT career and I wish people would have told me to get some certifications and start at the bottom and work your way up, because that’s essentially what I did without certs, 10 years after graduating high school and $50K in debt leaving university. But no one suggested alternatives to us. There was also not this idea of researching employment prospects; it was just “go to college and get a degree,” because we had a bunch of boomers telling us what to do and that was their experience.
I don’t understand this because it’s definitely not the advice I got, but I see a lot of Millennials claiming this.
Even then English majors were derided as unemployable. I know that because it caused me to double major in English and a stem field.
Good. You took out the loans, you should pay them back like everyone else.
If a politician want to fix the student loan issue, they should do so. Forgiving student loans and not offering up any kind of solution for future students makes absolutely no sense. We can’t just be forgiving student loans every 10 years.
IMO the solution is to cap annual tuition at a reasonable amount, then take a percentage of a graduates earnings for 10 years after graduating.
No we should make higher education free through taxes. It’s an investment in our future, and the last 20 years has shown what this country looks like when dipshit uneducated people vote in elections and participate in society.
But yes, college costs have gotten out of control. Or some programs that were initially created to help lower income people go to college don’t work anymore. For example every year I was in college I was eligible for a Pell Grant. It wasn’t until recently I learned that the Pell Grant was setup to cover the entire cost of tuition and housing for low income students. One year my Pell Grant was $900. That’s three credit hours at the state university I went to.
Where were you....20 years ago?
High school
Now do PPP loans.
What do you want me to do? Just because the government does one stupid thing doesn’t mean they need to do others.
I want you to understand that these programs are meant and executed for those who truly need them. This isn't the government throwing money at people too lazy to work off their debt. It's money granted to relieve the debt of those shackled by it and who have been paying as much as they feasibly can for over a decade at a minimum to qualify.
I understand what the program does, I just don’t agree with it.
Money always comes from somewhere and I don’t think this is a good way to spend tax money, or fair to the general public.
Just wait till you hear about corporate bailouts and tax cuts.
"Money always comes from somewhere" Oh, so you really don't even understand how money works in the US, do you?
Maybe figure that out first and then have an opinion on this.
The people mad about PPP loans are the same people who cheered for the lock downs that made PPP necessary.
Businesses were forced to stop making money. No one forced anyone to get a degree in barista arts.
And again we get the strawman argument that every degree is worthless and only the rich deserve anything to help.
good. Don’t need other people’s debt hold me and this country back.
pay your own debt and I’ll pay mine.
I bet you use tax loopholes.
"I got mine, therefore I don't give a shit about anyone else" - You
I PAID for mine.
Yes, and the point is that you don't want relief for other people who CAN'T pay theirs because you had to pay for yours.
Pretty sociopathic.
Relief by shoving their debt down the throat of all taxpayers?
So any and all rejection of debt relief is sociopathic? Very rediculous reasoning there.
I can use that same reasoning to say that you are a sociopath for callously creating extreme economic moral hazard and not caring how you are only favoring some people with free college at the detriment of others.
Not caring about us who paid our debts, or who didn’t go to college at all, makes YOU the sociopath.
Simply advocating for people to pay their own debts is not sociopathic whatsoever. It is the just route.
You understand that student loan relief doesn't come from taxes, right?
Please do some research on student loans and how monetary policy in the US actually works and get back to me.
The Federal Government borrows money, adds to the national debt, and extends that cash as a loan to the student.
If the student is "forgiven" the debt remains on the national debt, thus forcing everyone else to pick up the tab.
This is fiscal policy, not monetary. You need some educating.
You have to stop pretending debt forgiveness is consequence free, and also realize why SCOTUS ruled that this is a congressional matter due to being a matter of the Federal purse, hence why Biden cannot wipe it away via EO.
Nice shifting of the goalposts. You started by saying this was a "taxpayer" matter, implying that student loans were funded by taxpayers.
Your exact words: "Relief by shoving their debt down the throat of all taxpayers?"
I guess you did a bit of Googling and got back and changed your tune?
Now you're saying "debt forgiveness isn't consequence free" - OK, I'll bite, what are the consequences?
What is the net result of forgiving all student loan debt? Note that you'll need to take into account positive consequences and not just the ones that support your argument.
Millennials choosing to go into almost 6 figure debt knowing the career path they're choosing maxes out at 50k after 10 years
"This seems like a good idea"
Those same millennials 10-15 years later
"There's no way I could have seen this coming!"
😂
Yeah you dunk on those 17 year olds making poor life choices that will irreparably Shackel them to a life of poverty. That's something that's hilarious to normal people.
How is the issue not how much colleges cost in the States??? Im from Canada, my whole education cost $60K CAD (Undergrad, grad school) and I still think it was too much. Crazy how much tuition costs in the states but yeah it's people's fault for wanting higher education and not wanting to work jobs that dont require a degree. *Roll eyes.
🤔 Damn, you must have thought out the APR and ROI while you were thrown in your locker, ya fuckin nerd.
Good. Score one for the good guys.
Crazy idea, maybe like more developed and actual “1st world nations” we don’t make education a financial drain on someone’s life and acknowledge that education only benefits society?
I mean we spend trillions keeping the stock market afloat and bailing out failing corporations. But it’s always “fuck you” to the average citizen. Socialism for the rich. Cold hard capitalism for the worker.
Uneducated people sadly dont get this. Thats why your guys' government loves uneducated people sadly :(
Republicans
republicans love uneducated people.
Republicans are just the liars, and those gullible enough to believe them.
Bro these are all Americans (Your countrymen). I understand that certain people took out loans for certain degrees that were incredibly questionable to begin with. However, the way this country just peer pressures 17 and 18 year olds to "go to college no matter the cost" and then Pikachu faces when a large percentage of a generation is saddled with crippling debt, is insane. We bail out banks, airliners, all sorts of really poorly ran businesses (Boeing, GM, Chrysler) but people all of the sudden pull out pitchforks when we talk about bailing out Americans who struggle to pay their damn bills.
This is coming from someone who went to Community College and paid for their Bachelors degree with cash - a win for these people is a win for me. I see the struggles my friends and family who have giant student loans go through - and most of them have good jobs.
The reality is we need college educations for a lot of jobs and if people stop doing these jobs, we all suffer. I agree that blanket loan forgiveness isn't great and the root of the problem is extremely expensive education. However, this is a crisis and it's like showing up to an accident and focusing on how to make cars safer, instead of stopping the person from bleeding out.
This is all fine and good, but this policy is regressive overall because people who got to the point of taking out loans have drastically higher incomes than people who never went to college. It would be nice to forgive these loans in a highly targeted way, but it’s so far down the list of policies to help people in need that it would be best to just not and use the money on a more needy target demographic.
I just hear a lot of poor me and that word salad.
Maybe the teachers that people are in defensive should’ve educated these children properly. Maybe the parents should’ve educated them personal finance and responsibility.
But now I have to pick up the tab after doing things right in my life.
Sorry, but life is not fair and some people just have to dig the ditches
You have no problem picking up the tab for corporate bailouts though, right?
You hear "Go fuck yourself" alot huh?
It’s probably hard to do with the small dick energy though.
You’ll never have a hater that’s doing better than you
You might be doing better than me, but that of course is subjective because I’m anonymous and so are you. What I can conclude from your comments here in this thread is that you are selfish, and most if not all selfish people tend to have self esteem issues. I can tell you that helping people out of debt that chose to try to better their lives by becoming more educated post HS, after being led to believe that college and loans was the answer, is a good thing. If I am doing better than my neighbor, and they seem to need help or ask for help, I am going to help them. You can be “doing better” and think you have haters, but I guarantee that you’re an asshole as well.
Nope, not in the slightest cause I’m self efficient and don’t rely on other people for my success
Dozens of ignorant comments from you, but this one takes the cake. If you live in a society, you rely on others every single day. Just because you do not directly interact with someone doesn't mean you do not rely on them.
Try not to let your "success" blind you to your fellow humans. Self sufficiency isn't that big of a flex if it costs you compassion.
The people I rely on usually get paid a salary or an hourly wage. Due to work and provide a service. That is something I pay for. Not sure after grade school education sorry.
Nature isn't fair. Society is very much about cooperation.
You don't like doctors and teachers huh?
Doctors can easily pay back their loans
Not exactly.
Doctors go thru required residency programs for 3-7 years post doctorate, depending their focus. The average residency pay in America is 63k.
Then they make $200k+. They don't need a bailout so they can buy a nicer Porsche
Depending on their field and hospital/practice, but they also tend to have much higher loans than most and have accrued several years of compounded interest. Additionally, they work up to 80 hours a week in residency (and after).
Doctors aren’t your enemy here and frankly it’s weird you think they are. You could piss and moan about bankers or real estate firms who cause real damage and make huge profits but no— you choose DOCTORS.
To go further, their income post residency is very high, and more importantly infinitely more stable and transferable across locations than basically any other profession. A program targeted to PCPs with >X% of patients on Medicaid or gerontologists could make sense, but even that would be more of a lever to get people into understaffed specialties than a social safety net
No one called them the enemy, but they are in 0 need of a bailout or any relief. Any student loan forgiveness that includes doctors would be terribly regressive
I don’t know what else to say besides that your reasoning is extremely dumb. Out of ALL possible fields of high salaries you could possibly go after, you go after the people responsible for diagnosing and healing the sick? Bankers, business executives, finance and accounting people, all engineering fields, public administration, the list goes on— all have the potential to be high earners should the be so motivated in their field. Yet doctors is your hill to be anti-student loan reform 🤡 college should be free to those who need it to be.
Most people who want to get into medicine don’t do so bc of the cost burden and the risk. Passing school doesn’t guarantee you’ll get a residency placement.
I didn’t go after anyone, I was responding to a specific comment about doctors. Could you A) point out where I said bankers should get loan forgiveness or B) Make a coherent argument for why loan forgiveness shouldn’t be means tested at an income well below what doctors make? It’s ironic that you’re calling me dumb when you don’t even understand the argument to which you’re responding or even the policy about which you are arguing.
Sure, I do. But when you sign on the dotted line. Kind of like with your car credit card you know anything we are using somebody else’s money to either buy an asset or a liability. Pay it back.
* Small edit*
Yeah, I don’t know about teachers. Seeing as how I pay their salary with my property taxes and then they pay union dues. And the unions take some of those dues and then donate them to democratic politicians and their campaigns. Also, it’s the only public union in this country if I’m not mistaken funded with our tax dollars.
If you "sign on the dotted line" for a car salesman who is then convicted of fraud, the law steps in.
That's what is being dealt with here. The student loan industry became fraudulant, and these students are the victims of fraud.
Your anger should be directed at those who commited the fraud and at the system which allows the fraud to exist, not at the victims of the fraud.
Wasn’t aware anyone he held a gun to your head
Did anyone hold a gun to: - Bank of America - Citi - Wells Fargo - GM - AIG - Jp Morgan - Morgan Stanley - Goldman Sachs - The TARP act
....... While their top tiers and shareholders had previously collected billions in compensation/gains?
Deflect deflect deflect. You sure do eat the propaganda up.
Fraud has nothing to do with having a gun held to your head. Do you know what fraud is?
Fraud is swindling. Lying to someone. Like a car salesman telling you your car costs $25,000, then charging your credit card $50,000.
The police, the postal service. All public employees with unions.
Ah yeah very true.
Doctors can afford to pay back their loans
Edit: Why the downvotes? Someone making $200k+ doesn't need help with student loans
Our economy system is based on the notion of creditor primacy, in which 1) Debtors have a moral obligation to pay off debts owed in full. 2) Creditors are morally justified in pursuing the collection of debts by any means necessary. 3) Any relief allowed must come with tradeoffs, for example, declaring bankruptcy is expensive and will ding your credit for a long time.
The proposal of broad student loan forgiveness throws the system of creditor primacy on its head.
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