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What's your go-to midlaner when enemy team has 4 strength heroes?
DiscussionThis has to be up there, no question asked. Timber vs 4 str is easy win.
also good if your team don’t have Sniper counter
Necrophos?
Tips on how necro can counter high str heroes pls?
Necro does % based damage and reduces health regen in an area, two things high HP heroes hate. He can also buy a lot of items that make him very tanky in his own right. So just by existing near them he's chunking them down.
His ult effectively halves thier hp pool
You have your passive ability that deals damage that scales with the ennemies hp. If they have str heroes it's just that much damage. Necro is weak to burst. Tanky heroes rarely have infinite dmg. They will make long fights. You love it as necro. And your aghs deals so much damage over time.
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7d
People are finally getting sick of useless “this” responses.
Exactly!
Why tho? I don't really think anything of responses like "this" or "lmao" or "💀" or what have you. I just continue scrolling.
They're like advertisements for people with poor personalities and all I'm trying to do is get to the content and the discussion.
Like cool, you didn't just contribute nothing, yall actually took away from the fluidity of browsing by piping up with something already accomplished by how we've come to use the upvote/down vote system.
Unnecessary has become annoying, annoying has turned into an endless assault, and being assaulted for so long has turned the unnecessary into the enemy. As is the cycle for all unnecessary things.
I feel like you're overreacting
You asked and they answered. You're personifying the "this" mentality by accusing someone of responding thoughtfuly as being an overreaction.
Unnecessary has become annoying, annoying has turned into an endless assault, and being assaulted for so long has turned the unnecessary into the enemy. As is the cycle for all unnecessary things.
This is an overreaction.
Yeah, not the point.
OD
I've been on the opposite side enough times to know
OD ,Timbersaw, AA, necro
Phoenix isn't a bad shout. HP% damage and great control, loves to build Vessel for more HP% damage and heal mitigation.
If you're accurate with spirits it's so easy to dominate your lane.
Plus both his facets work well into a STR matchup. One helps him farm incredibly fast and the other just incinerates high HP targets at range.
Alternatively, Timber mid still works.
Phoenix is a good shout against strength heroes that are usually melee and low attack speed it is going to be very difficult to kill egg, very good niche pick for that sort of situation
I'm up 1200 mmr with phoenix since the patch. He's great.
Phoenix falls off pretty hard after 15 mins tho
Not sure how you got to that conclusion. Some of my best late games have been watching the enemy carry absolutely melt as I sun ray them in egg form.
If you're countered, then yes it can be miserable, but that applies to everyone.
Yes, if you are 2k MMR and have no idea how to play phoenix
I mean I was playing the Phoenix core before it was cool/as soon as the dying light facet came out and I agree
Yes you scale in terms of damage, but that’s literally it. And the problem with scaling DoT damage is that you aren’t going to really kill people with it.
You’ll do a fuckton with a good egg + beam in a fight, absolutely. Especially when you’re 25 and have an aghs so your egg doesn’t instantly die. But that’s it; you egg and then just kinda walk around burning people. You don’t take objectives, you don’t solo kill cores unless you are egregiously ahead (and yes you should be very far ahead), and you aren’t gonna 1v5 fights like some other heroes can
You must be a really fucking bad Phoenix player. How the hell do you get that conclusion?
If you're suffering to remain as a considerable threat to the enemy team past the midgame, just stand in the back of every teamfight, throw your W on as many targets as possible, then ult behind your team, and force the opposition to have to run away if they don't want a spell-immunity piercing stun on their entire team + Sun Ray melting them, while they deal with -120 attack speed.
Prioritise getting Refresher, and you can do it twice in one fight. If you're somehow falling off before even getting to that point, literally just never play Phoenix again.
What?
Fire spirits isn’t what makes Phoenix strong, it’s sun ray, though they do dominate lane. Shivas shard refresher is one of the highest damage teamfight combos in the game.
You use a full sunray, on your initiating core and their target, swoop in with shiva + fire spirit, egg with another sunray. Refresh then if needed.
Unless your item build is forced to be radically different this should be your plan most games. With aghs instead of refresher you can basically save your whole team between heals, counter initiation, and a direct save.
Necro
and if there's an annoying necro get aa
if the enemy is 4 strengths no matter what role I play I'd pick AA.
Whats ur logic there?
Removes strength, removes healing, removes basically 14% of their HP. AA is a natural counter to strength heroes.
Facet which removes STR from enemy heroes.
Oh forgot thats a thing. Good point
Doesnt it remove str from all heroes? Isnt it by that logic better vs heroes who have less strenght?
Well yes and no. The percentage of strength removed is higher for non-strength heroes. On the other hand it also reduces the base damage of strength heroes.
Idk, for example a cent. U think he cares if he loses 10-20 strength and dmg? Just the threshold ultimate dmg is stronger vs high hp heroes and cancling their regen also is big. But imo the strength steal doesnt matter that much compared to int/agi heroes.
Yeah I agree.
But it’s pretty hero specific IMO. A WK carry might really miss his 20 damage for example.
What do you mean? AA's entire purpose is to be a hard counter to strength heroes.
His entire kit is built for it.
There literally isn't anything he does that isn't amazing to have against a strength comp.
But picking AA mid against 4 strength hero is the instant lose imo. Imagine if its Centa, Sven, Kunkka, Pudge. Can you efficiently counter those heroes in match. When they get dagger its instant dead
Im picking Necro and i cant stop winning.
Necro, timber, or Outhouse Decorator.
Necro obv, even naix is not so bad actually. Or Timber to cut the Strength. Also perhaps sniper if they are all melee.
Blink+dust on sniper anytime and he’s baked lol
Sniper in lategame literally unplayable if you have melee heroes, and considering youre in lategame its ez for him
Yes I'll take 1 baked sniper please
would you like fries with that?
Yes 1 fried hoodwink with it, thanks.
You know what? Make it a double. Little Pudge is such a hungry fella today
Underlord. Surprisingly decent mid lander and tanky enough to live through sniper/viper/WR bullshit. Hard counters most strength heros mid as well.
And that percentage damage is amazing.
Timber or necro
Definitely OD
Old outworld devourer 😢
Viper? Most of strength heroes have annoying passives.
Still need to snowball before 4 eternal shrouds come out
Necro
SF physical damage and hope for the best
ah yes, the "just do more damage lmao" option
aka my favorite
Honestly if veno isn’t picked for offlane I probably go veno.
I’d also consider undying.
necro and timber are some clear cut counters to high str heroes
% damage is strong here, so phoenix is a good pick, also because STR heroes are mostly melee so its more difficult to kill the egg
same reason why WW could be good. %damage on his Q and taking advantage of grouped up enemies. reasoning is also fine for enigma
AA or OD
Not mid player but what about undying?
I would personally take Winter Wyvern, given the permanent %HP damage, but that's me.
Phoenix or AA are probably more reasonable, if you're good at 'em.
I would never in my life be caught dead playing Necro or OD, but they're probably just as good - if not better.
Timber.
Wex invoker. Kinda intuitive since str heroes don’t want to go mana items
Drow
I maybe be 0/12 on mid drow but god damn do those games go the distance
I agree. If drow can go uncontested, or at least be protected by her team, whether than be an Abaddon, Oracle, SD, or even her own frontliner like Axe, Clockwerk, etc. she can shred.
And even if she’s not literally ‘shredding’ the enemy to bits instantly, she’s applying strong aoe slows and anti-healing, from long range too, which’ll be much easier against a bunch of typically melee and typically frontliner strength heroes which will likely bunch up.
If the enemy strength heroes are a bunch of initiators, mobile, or blink users, then it becomes a game of chicken whether drow’s team can survive long enough to let drow show up late to the fight uncontested, or if drow will feel forced to show her presence to a fight early and potentially get jumped on.
CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT CUT
I love timber or firebird phoenix. But depends on what Mmr.
Timber is for sure the hardest counter. But imo it's not a good pick unless you play the hero. It's really easy to just have 0 impact if you don't know what ur doing. - necro okay, and easier to play. But I think comfort is far more important then matchup in all games.
Necrophos and OD are usually my go-tos Necro for his passive and ult that scales with tanky mfs
OD does insane damage with his right click, steals mana from their already low mana pool and deletes them with his ult
Doom
Zeus, Necro, Timber.
Shaker
Nothing like doing 30-50% of their hp pool with a perfectly executed blink echo combo only to die immediately
Yeah he's not what he used to be in that term since everybody's so tanky lol
Timber's wet dream.
Phoenix mid is very fun to play and would be strong in such a game.
Necrophos if timber isn't available and you're too pussy for mid phoenix.
It would have been tinker a patch ago ☹️
Silencer
Undying
Huskar
Pudge
Undying. Oh wait midlainer?….. Well i am out
Anything which does % based damage.
Timber. But then again, Timber is my go to for every role now. I would play him slot 5 if it would not upset my . I HATE TREES
Kotl, because they lack mobility, they will clump up and are easy targets for blinding light and illuminate. Illuminate will also make up the difference in their HP and your team's HP, will-o-wisp and blinding light will illustrate their lack of mobility further. Your mobility and ability to push lanes will make it difficult for them.
The downside is that you really need to moving all the time to avoid them catching you, if needed you can even get blink dagger later in the game.
kotl has no damage, hes massively weak in a teamfight and his attacks take too long.
Sure, if you are trash then you are right.
Tell me ur 2k mmr without telling me
4K actually, nothing big aboutt hat, but please keep playing kotl . he is so much fun to stomp.
In 4k? Ok, who cares? xD
pretty sure i even said nothing big about 4k, try reading better, But thanks for chiming in.
Elder Titan just claps their cheeks. Earth splitter does % mased damage according to their max hp.
It also used to be Tinker before they butchered my boy. Shrink ray + 250 aoe + 10% HP pool per laser (stacking) - A str hero with say 4k HP becomes an actual creep.
ET is much more an agi hero counter with natural order tbh.
I know that. He pretty much one shots every agi hero, yet he still claps strengths heroes too.
Dazzle. Great against teams where you need to outlast your opponents, and he bullies every strength hero in the game in lane.
Not sharing!
S tier picks for 4 str cores as a midlaner Timber. Necrophos.
A tier picks (decent but not prefered) Monkey king, phantom lancer, naga siren.
Z tier picks ( they look fucky but works once in a million cuz they have one skill that makes them actually useful against beefy ones)
Slark. Slardar. Chaos knight.
Dark willow
Windranger, but then again, thats usually my choice :P, The only difficult part is the time from their blademails to the time of my bkb
who cares about egoistic mid dogs, let them suffer
Timber