Feeling as though Catholicism is meaningless, and growing indifferent to Hell.

One of the things that caused me to fall away from Catholicism, is just how reactionary it at felt. For some Chosen Souls, it feels as though every aspect of their life was arranged in advance for their greatest good

But for the rest of us, we are just particles being tossed about by the winds of circumstances

You are undergoing extreme bouts of illness? Some Souls are specifically told that they are undergoing this to increase their Glory, and repair for mankind. They were given so much antecedent grace, that they will cooperate, and it will grace the world. You? You don't know why you're suffering. You can choose to offer it to God, or not to, but you're wandering aimlessly through the winds of circumstance. Good luck.
Heaven? Some Souls are created to receive certain rewards, or even to occupy specific places in Heaven, and their lives almost interpolative for getting them there. You? Your place in Heaven is directly determined by your actions in this life, but since you are not Chosen, don't expect it to be too high...
For some Souls, even seemingly random causes of frustrations were actually devised by God to communicate some message, or sanctify them for those aforementioned Thrones that they will be occupying? You? Bad things simply happen to you, and there's no reason why, nor is there anything you can do to stop it or reverse the damage: You can only choose how you respoooond!

Being a Catholic when your name is not Padre Pio (or any other Chosen Soul), feels like living in a Fantasy World where you know going into it that you are and always will be an NPC. You are free to do anything you could possibly imagine, but only because nothing that you could possibly do could ever be relevant to the Plot at hand (Food for thought: God's will is irresistible, and when He wants something to happen, He will create a Chosen Soul, who will fulfill His desires, and yet the rest of us seemingly have so much freedom???)

For some people, things happen for them, but for the Spiritual Proletariat, things are merely happening to us. We are those relatives of Job that were fridged in the earlier Chapters to further his Development; The masses that the Death Star incinerates to make the Sith look stronger, but we are ultimately things, not people; Extras in this Cosmic Dance that we call "life".

To drag oneself to Masses that you know are supposed to be powerful, but never show it; To gaze at God Himself in the form of Bread, only to be met with deafening silence and sterility as though He really were nothing more. To pray--already knowing in advance that almost none of your Prayers will ever amount to anything, just for, perhaps, the psychological relief?

What kind of existence of that?

What's even worse, is that even many "serious" Catholics seem to have a somewhat low estimation of God. The fact that any devout Catholic could respond with "waking up" or "childbirth" when an inquisitive soul inquires about the existence of Miracles, displays just how sterile and flaccid the perception of God has become in the broader culture, but who else has He to blame? For a Faith that was practically founded on actual Miracles, these answers are downright offensive.

Catholicism feels less like a sovereign reality, and more like an elaborate prank that just so happens to be true. Throughout this entire life, there are almost no indicators that any of this actually matters, until you suddenly wake up to find yourself in Hell one day--and even then, it may have mattered to you, but you didn't necessarily matter to God.

After all, I can imagine it would be easy to love God if He personally told you that He wants you to serve Him because He wants you to be the Queen of Heaven (speaking figuratively, not about Mary in particular). It's much less convincing when the best that you get, is some Priest in the Internet telling you that God antecedently desires "all men" to be saved, and "to think of the alternative". The aversion of a future evil is not a sufficient incentive to pursue an unpalatable "good". It is like the difference between a Parent telling their chastised Child that they should not be sad, since their corrections are merely designed for their good, and commanding a child to stop crying, lest they "give" them a reason to cry.

This, among many other reasons--is ultimately why I left the Church, and have even begun to grow indifferent to Hell: A world where everything comes down to choice--where everything is wholly malleable, is a world where nothing that is chosen ultimately matters. You say that infidelity (to God) can result in my damnation, but who even am I? Why should I even care about what happens to "me"? God doesn't even care what happens to me, if He did, He would step off His Throne every once in a while and actually do something useful. He certainly has done so for others, before.

in Catholicismby Throwaway2093r20

45%

IncarnateSalt

I am one of those people you would call an NPC. I don't get fantastic visions. I don't hear God's voice. I certainly don't have special graces or the ability to resist sin.

You know what I do have though? I have a will that sees God, the creator that loved me and everyone else so much He took on unfathomable pains to save us, and I weep. I have a mind tgat hungers to know God and understand Him, and most importantly, I have a heart that loves the One that is most deserving.

Even if I am the lowest person in Heaven, I will consider myself fortunate because I have no right to be there. The difference between us is perspective. I see the same things I instead of being jaded that I am not on the top of the pile, I am satisfied simply being in the pile at all. Perhaps a reframing is in order and growing in humility

rannonga

Everyone in heaven will be fulfilled to their maximum capacity. No one will be jealous or envious of another's joy in heaven.

sggshsa

Right, the idea that boredom even exists in heaven is a very human assumption. People can’t very easily wrap their heads around eternally being one with the God who wove joy into our being in the first place. Like we’ll be standing around on a cloud twiddling our thumbs wishing there was fortnite in heaven.

Dull-Wait5899

Yeah, I remember a non-Christian rating Heaven on a scale of S to F as a C in a YouTube video. Many in the comments noted how flawed his ranking was, and partly the reason was like what you and the comment you replied to said.

chan_showa

You are the one who thinks you are given only one talent and complains about those who are given three or five.

You have harboured bitterness instead of being vulnerable before God and ask him to show himself to you.

We cannot bargain before God. We simply accept everything, and ask for the strength to submit to situations he has allowed us to be in. Be humble, prostrate before him, but never put yourself above God as if he owed you.

You are right, many people suffer in the world. But you yourself suffer much less than many people in the world. Instead of praying for all and asking for his Kingdom to come, you simply blame his lack of presence in places where he is rejected.

You are supposed to be the hands and feet of God that precisely help those much less fortunate than you. Instead, you are bitter. Stop being bitter and remember why you are made, every little goodness that he has give you that you never deserve.

Then come back and actually do something for the injustice you charge God for committing.

WordWithinTheWord

You’ve clearly put a lot of thought into this post. I struggle with some similar thoughts, albeit in different flavors. In your heart, what are you looking to get out of posting this?

Throwaway2093r20

-1

Unfortunately, I--just like everyone else--will have to step into Eternity, eventually, and whereas most ex-Catholics stop believing in the tenets of the Faith, outright: I do believe, I simply don't care.

Heaven sounds like a complete unsatisfying bore that will only appear pleasing because it is impossible to not be irradiated with some level of felicity when being blasted by the Beatific Vision, but while I am not necessarily terribly afraid of the torments of Hell, I am "afraid" of the crippling boredom I will experience down there, even if that alone, does not motivate me to return to the Faith.

If I'm wrong about the sweeping nihility of the Catholic Life for non-essential characters like myself, and if, in fact, individual satisfaction can exist in Heaven beyond the superficial sweeping satisfaction of simply being there, I would like to see some coherent, sourced rebuttals to the points that I have mentioned that go beyond the trite Pascal's Wager, weaponized ignorance (e.g. responding "you have to choose", even though that line of thinking is what got me here in the first place), or regression into ad hominems, strawmen, or outright vitriol, as can be characteristic of those who do not actually know how to form a counterargument, but nonetheless feel compelled to respond with something, since the contents of the subject matter personally offended them.

If anyone can propose a convincing rebuttal, feel free to share. Otherwise (or perhaps, regardless), pray that I'll receive the grace of Final Penitence, because if I have repentance literally handed to me at the last second like that, not even I would choose Hell just for the sake of it. I can probably find something to do in Heaven, right? Perhaps they have some decent Literature...?

PaxApologetica

I am "afraid" of the crippling boredom I will experience down there

As a thought experience. Eat a haberno pepper whole. When the experience is over. Tell me how "bored" you were...

WordWithinTheWord

I get where you’re coming from 100%. I’d like to respond properly in the morning when I’m at my computer if you don’t mind.

WordWithinTheWord

Hi I didn’t forget about you!

I too have struggled with the one-dimensional description of the afterlife we are given from sacred scripture.

But I have to believe we are more than just the sum of our parts. In that is happiness only such when juxtaposed against sadness? Is contentment only such when contrasted against boredom or unrest?

But then I had a child of my own. And when a baby looks into a loving parents eyes - no ego, no sense of self or ambition - I believe there a true love that can exist outside of just being a counterpart to its opposite emotion.

That’s how I view heaven. An eternal walk with God outside of time and earthly being. How can boredom exist with no concept of time to be passed? No frame of reference beyond just now.

It’s a bit foo-foo woo-woo, but it’s my point of view at least.

SuburbaniteMermaid

Comparison is the thief of joy.

Johnxinasicecream

Tldr. Help me baby jesus.

Leading_Delivery_351

You seem to have some pride. So what if youre not the best soul in Heaven. God created you when he didn´t have to. God owes you absolutely nothing. And yet youre complaining that you´re not a great saint? Youre not a great saint because you lack humility

User deleted comment

Leading_Delivery_351

you can ask for the grace of humility, and for other graces. In fact the church encourages its children to pray for the grace of final perseverance. This means that your prayers have an effect in whether you obtain certain graces or not

[deleted]

I feel the same way honestly, except for the indifference about Hell. I'm very nervous about Hell. Want to trade?

(/s)

Future_Ladder_5199

That’s a gift. It’s like being nervous about being tormented forever by your own Free choice by separation from God and other things .

Future_Ladder_5199

Because it is that

PaxApologetica

Everything is ordered to your good. Even the things you perceive as bad.

LurkingSoul

Here is the antidote: love.

God loves you. You are not an NPC. No one He made is. You are made in His image and likeness. That is a big deal. You are fearfully and wonderfully made. The value of one human soul is astounding.

Make your goal love of God and others and envy of spritual gifts and status will flee.

Charity is all that will last. Scripture says those who work wonders in Jesus' name but have not loved will be cast out into the outer darkness.

Mt 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

1 John 5:3

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

Love is the point, it is why no one is worthless, it is why you are here. The most important gift is love and you have it. You, because you have free will, can love God and neighbor. Love and you will be able to love more. If, like me, you find your capacity for love is tiny, ask God for help daily. He will help you.

This is a good prayer: 'I love You, Lord, help my lack of love.'

CheerfulErrand

Ahh, no, you’re just as chosen as anyone else. You have the opportunity to cooperate and display even more valuable faith. The testimony of the “chosen” saints is meant for you. Your life contains messages from God, about his love, all day every day. God died for you, individually. Jesus died for you, individually.

Yes, some people are singled out as examples, but they get corresponding trials. You’re called to become the saint God wants you to be, and it will be 100% the life and heavenly glory that would satisfy you best.

The way back is always open.

Throwaway2093r20

Yes, some people are singled out as examples, but they get corresponding trials.

This is another one of those problems, though? Tell me, who is suffering more? Padre Pio, whose greatest affliction was literally being pierced with God's love, or the starving, decaying masses of Children in third world nations who neither know, nor reasonably could know that a God exists, let alone loves them?

Perhaps, due to Supernatural means, our favorite Friar truly is suffering more, but we cannot prove that. On the contrary, I would dare say the struggle of the peasants who forage for spoiled food and contaminated Water is quite great, yet despite their great fortitude through enduring these torments--which mirror Hell on Earth, they are not quite as resplendent as the Italian Man who could see Angels from the moment of his Birth.

Our Glory is not necessarily determined by our capacity, as though Catholicism is somehow meritocratic; It has been, and always will be, hierarchical in nature. The few are greater than the many, not because there are none from the many who could have rivaled--or even surpassed their capacity to endure Trials, but simply because the Few are the Few, and the Many are the Many (even the meritocratic components of the faith that are present, were determined antecedently according to the hierarchical edicts of God... individuals like Mary or the Apostles do not simply "happen", no matter how many times you roll the dice).

You do not know how much I already suffer, irrespective of my lack of predilection. I am not what I am because I lacked the capacity. I lack the capacity because I am what I am.