Like it’s £60+ a week for regular talking therapy, £80+ for EMDR, often even £100+. There is a fucking cost of living crisis and inflation in most western countries!!! Ppl who come out with this shit are so privileged I’m sorry. I would argue that therapy is not accessible to most people in western countries. If someone is on this sub then it’s 90% likely they have already considered therapy.
People who say “go to therapy” are really out of touch and annoying
CPTSD Vent / RantIt just doesn't make sense. That's why social support neta are so important for people who can't function within the current system.
You can also find affordable therapy and not end up with a good therapist.
I did free counselling through my employer before I started with paid therapy and it was awful. I asked to switch to a different person and it was better, but the poor guy sounded so worn out (I had to wait a month to get an appointment) I felt bad talking about my issues to him.
Yeah, that's the other part they don't consider. Even if you can afford therapy or you do manage to get it through some insurance, there's no promise your therapist will even be helpful. There are a lot of shitty, dangerous people out there who are therapists and will downplay your issues, treat you like garbage, and make your issues worse.
Not discouraging people from seeking therapy if possible. Just be careful and don't be afraid to call your therapist out if they start talking over you, or dismissing your concerns. And don't feel guilty about changing therapists if feasible.
100% agree. Not every therapist is a good match, nor do they all understand PTSD.
this is so true! even when i opted for paying myself instead of having it on insurance (because i would have to wait for 6 months minimum), i still had to go through 10 therapists to find one that at least seemed educated on the issues i was dealing with... if i didn't have enough finances, i would either be still waiting or nope out after the first encounter
Employers provide therapists that care only about productivity and worker availability, if your problems don't intersect those issues they get sleepy.
That’s not normally how it works where I’m at in the US. (And many other states that I’ve discussed with others) There’s separate companies that companies hire out to provide the benefits, which include a set amount of therapy sessions. Most places that do therapy accept these benefits like they do insurance.
Therapy is 100% necessary AND 100% inaccessible to huge swathes of the population due to crushing financial difficulties. Ppl who say "go to therapy" need to say "go to therapy if you're able to."
I'm privileged AF. I've had medical insurance that has covered my therapy for the last decade. But there was def a time in my life when privileged ppl would say I was crazy for opting out of insurance because paying for insurance would mean I wouldn't be able to eat that month....
What is your insurance? How much do you pay for it?
It runs me around $250 every 2 weeks. But your insurance cost is going to depend on your region, how much your employer covers, the type of plan and plan deductible, and how many ppl it's covering
Oh. I thought maybe you lived in a sane area of the world where healthcare is not tied to employment
I wish. Maybe in my next life 🤞
Insurance costs depend on where you live and your company. It’s different for everyone
not to mention there are BAD therapists out there. i’m therapist shopping and just witnessed two horrible ones. it’s expensive and you literally have to therapist shop before you find one that’s able to grasp the concept of complex trauma
I’ve spent probably thousands on therapy and it oftentimes makes things worse. I’ve been with my current therapist for a few months and she’s alright so she’s helped me stabilize after my previous awful therapist, but I think that’s likely all she’s going to be able to do for me. I don’t think she’s going to help me heal from my childhood trauma in any way.
It sucks you have to spend $100+ for a session and it often takes several sessions to figure out if this person is going to be helpful for you or not (or if they’re making things worse). Whether they help you or not you still have to pay them the full price. There are no “refunds” in mental health care. I’m so tired of shelling money into this broken system and getting nothing in return.
I get that therapists don’t make a lot of money in the first place, but they oftentimes aren’t helpful and just feeding off of desperate people. There’s usually no way for you view reviews from other clients so it’s just a shot in the dark. It almost sounds like a scam…
you took the words right out of my brain
Sacrificing rent to get told to take more walks.
Lmao. Yeah. My last therapist who claimed to specialize in trauma told me I was overreacting and causing problems for myself lmao. Like, cool emoji, wish I’d bought a pizza instead.
This is literally what my last counsellor said to me. Fuck, is it even worth it any more…
Living in the UK sounds like literal hell. I get 60 mins for free a week and my therapists calls me online when I’m not in the city.
I'm in the UK and my therapist is £105 a session (50min) and it's discounted because I've been seeing it for a while. I wouldn't get this level of care for free with the NHS. Or I would have died waiting for it.
those are £ signs in the OP, not $. they're talking about the UK. if you're thinking "doesn't the UK have free (mental) healthcare?" then the answer to that is "only if you're able to wait potentially literal years for it." the US is sadly not the only country in the world with a broken healthcare system lol.
also a lot of medical care in the uk is essentially nonexistent, like mental health or gender care
I'm in Canada, and though I did have to wait for a psychiatrist to be covered, she's saved my life. I think it was 18 months or so after my referral. I suggest getting on every waitlist you can if the option exists.
yeah sounds like the UK is also facing some issues right now..
Americans try not to make everything about themselves challenge level 1000040
Americans on reddit can't say that though because we get downvoted to hell and told by the privileged Americans that this is the best country in the World.
Because they never been to a country where your value as human being is not just another reason to make money.
A lot of people on reddit are just privileged Americans that haven't experienced significant trauma and dont know what its like to not have a support system.I'm pretty sure the main demographic for Redditors are middle to upper middle class white Americans.
They'll casually talk about how they don't have to pay rent and live with their families, and how their parents or grandparents paid for their college tuition. They just ignore or call the Americans that have abusive families, and the Americans that are poor or disabled lazy. You can see it in the subreddits that are American cities. The Seattle and Los Angeles subreddit is great for this.
I got told on a subreddit," oh wow your family is toxic. You should move out and not speak to them again. My family has made sure my college funds were paid for and I have somewhere safe to stay." Like no fucking shit I need to move out, but I'm obviously not lucky like you to afford to move out and on top of that I'm fucking disabled. And don't tell the privileged Americans you're disabled either because they'll start ranting about how you need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
Either "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" or their other fave, "well, just get on disability??". As though that's some magical golden ticket. Like, it took me 2 years to be accepted for that. If I didn't have the kindness of strangers during that time, I'd be dead while waiting. And also, it's not enough to live on. Literally anywhere.
But you can't tell them that, no, this country is ✨perfect✨ and there are absolutely ✨no issues whatsoever✨ with how disabled people are treated. 🙄
Lmfaooo fr. I made a post on an autism subreddit about how I was so sick and tired of being treated by society and I basically just want to sleep and not wake up.
A lot of the comments were just," uh get on disability. What do you want us to do about it? We can't fix it for you." Like bitch no one asked you..I was obviously venting, but most of them were acting really dense and I got a lot of microaggressions.
If I read," get on disability." Again I think I'm going to go off.
Ugh. People who are detached from reality due to privilege are almost everywhere. I get asked every winter why I’m not going skiing with my family??? Like I ever engage in rich people activity. But at least I have foundational resources paid by my insurance.
Generally. A good functioning government will realize that an individuals mental health is a huge factor for the public’s resilience.
I know.I'm just talking about America because that was the topic and I think on reddit I'm sure the main demographic are Americans and I notice the poor Americans just get drowned out and ignored by the wealthy or middle class Americans.
Our country's government is absolute trash. I think they only talk about the growing $uicide rates here because they need more workers and any time someone takes their own life it costs them money. I know other countries aren't a uptoia and they have issues as well, but America is just a mess. It's a great place to live if you're wealthy though.
ike no fucking shit I need to move out, but I'm obviously not lucky like you to afford to move out and on top of that I'm fucking disabled.
I mean it's extreme but can be doable if poor. My friend has OCD and likely cPTSD (though I think his is not as bad as mine but I don't have OCD) and has a mom as awful as mine and he was so desperate about his living situation that he literally was homeless for two months. She did not pay for his school, etc. Even though his mom was willing to provide a roof over his head he thought he'd rather be homeless than ever live with her ever again. He literally was sleeping in his car, showering at the gym, etc. I even sent him food care packages when he was really struggling and starving (at the time I was with my mom so I couldn't house him myself). I wasn't as strong as him so I used a different method (went to a different grad school far away and took out an obscene amount of loans). I also at one point had great friends who didn't mind me couch surfing for several months (though I did paid them a pittance for rent). I just wanted to bring that up because some of "just move out" people are also poor but they somehow made it work. Part of me not moving out and my mom's hold on me was her abusive BS about how I couldn't "survive without her" and how I was "too stupid" to live by myself which I think is also a barrier to some people's resistance to moving out which is why some people offer that solution. I basically had Stockholm syndrome so it can sometimes be helpful to hear "get out of that situation."
Doable for you and whoever you're talking about..not me. I just got done talking about how a lot of people need to stop acting like everyone is the same.
Thanks for giving me an example of what I'm talking about in real time though.
This is what happens when you’re the world’s baby daddy. Financially support everyone else to the point we’re homeless while paying rent for other countries.
I don’t get what you are trying to say.
Living in the US is financially miserable bc we send money to other countries for things we don’t need to, like funding gender studies in the Middle East, before we take care of our own. That causes our taxes to go up. Making it impossible for us to live and have the things we need.
I mean.. Germany does it as well, it just prioritizes expenses in its inner politics differently.
I'm pretty sure if the government wanted to make the US better they would..they just don't want to and like how it is now.
They're only concern seems to be the declining birth rare because they're going to need more poor slaves working for these corporations, but other than that I'm sure they're trying to get rid of the poor people.
Absolutely they could! They’re the ones who make the choices for us but don’t actually care about what we want or how it affects us.
I mean OP is clearly in the UK but many other countries also don't have free or easily accessible therapy. I'm in Canada and it's usually around $200 per hour.
Here are the alternatives to therapy that have helped me: reading books from the library on the subject by authors like Schwartz and Walker, watching youtube therapists like Dr. Ramani and Patrick Teehan. Going for long walks. Going to a free yoga class in my area. Meditating with the local buddhists. Keeping a journal.
Already do all of these
Well then you’re doing what you can
I personally find Pi AI really helpful. You do have to be mindful to not let the conversation go too long (since the answers end up odder and odder the longer you talk to any AI) and to start a new conversation, with a slightly altered prompt if the AI has gone on the wrong track.
ramani is a bigot please never encourage people to consume her hateful content
What. Why?
Oh dang. Nm.
Could you elaborate?
she makes stigmatising and non-scientific videos about "narcissists" which demonise every single person with the diagnosis
I'm someone who grew up abused by someone with that diagnosis and am susceptible to being so again. Dr. Ramani has proved to be the most helpful resource I have had for healing from that abuse and protecting myself further. She's not calling for discrimination or hate, she's telling us how to stay safe.
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5mo
instead of making assumptions, accusing me of manipulation and using stigmatising terms, please do some research into the condition.
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5mo
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5mo
She makes videos for survivors of abuse from NPD persons. Please let us know how she is a bigot rather than just dropping that info and dipping
edit: Never mind I understand why you posted this here + across multiple subreddits. Makes complete sense actually
I didn't dip haha :') you can have a look for yourself and check the way she talks about people with NPD - unscientific and dehumanising
Her newer videos do get less scientific as she runs out of scientifically backed information. And I agree that she could work on differentiating between intent and effect more but "dehumanising" is taking it a bit far ihmo. Information becomes no less accurate and no more bigoted if you don't like the light it shines on you.
There’s nothing wrong with pointing out negative traits of people with NPD or how those traits can impact your life. This is a complicated issue and I don’t want to paint with a broad brush, but narcissists have caused profound pain in my life and the lives of others. She’s not a bigot for suggesting we heed caution when interacting with NPD people, they are often callous and unrelenting in their cruelty.
nothing wrong with pointing that out, but generalising those with a disorder and talking about them negatively is discrimination which is why I'd recommend staying away from her.
NPD is diagnostically defined in the DSM-5 (APA 2013; pages 669-672) as a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy, with interpersonal entitlement, exploitiveness, arrogance, and envy. Five out of nine of these criteria need to be present to meet the diagnosis of NPD.
Source: the first Google result for "NPD criteria"
Even if you think the first three do not negatively affect the people around you, five out of nine means that you can't be diagnosed with NPD if you don't have at least two traits that do. There's nothing discriminatory in pointing that out.
yeah, that's what I said. but it's not okay to generalise, dehumanise, discriminate, etc.
Can you give an example of what you find dehumanising or discriminatory?
constantly she says "the narcissist", never truly seeing people with the diagnosis as just that: people with a disorder. there is too much discrimination I can't even mention nearly all of it. a lot of it comes down to "all narcissists are bad people that are going to hurt YOU and you should get away from them" and there's a bunch of discriminative misinfo too
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5mo
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5mo
Seems like she hit a nerve and now your projecting
In the UK I was able to find a therapist that charged me half their regular rate. This has made it accessible (at a stretch) even during times when I haven't been able to work. IMO they are a very patient and skilled therapist and I'm thankful for the work we do together and for the fact they have halved the fee. I felt very guilty even asking for it (despite searching for therapists that offer low cost slots) and for continuing for a number of years at that rate, however I don't know where I would be without it.
Boy oh boy, wait til you hear the cost of Trauma Therapy out here.
Spoiler: $240 to $500 an hour, but that was during the pandemic. I don’t even wanna know what it is now, after post-pandemic inflation.
Poverty is trauma. I’m with you, OP.
I feel you OP.
I also live in the UK and have weekly talking therapy. I don't work due to my health issues so the therapy is a significant amount of the little money I do receive.
Therapy is literally saving my life yet even then it's still so hard to justify the cost. And am I really living if I can't afford to do anything else?
And then my therapist nonchalantly told me I needed twice a week, and I agreed, but I had to say no because I would starve. But there's this idea that therapists have that you should be sacrificing for therapy, and this is what they throw at me when I say I can't afford it. It never seems to click with them that there literally isn't the money in the bank to pay them and there's nothing left to remove from my life.
And then all this makes me feel suicidal again - which I need therapy for. 😋
Yeah. I don't have access to it, can't afford even the basics, and the basics aren't going to cut it since it's almost always CBT for acute problems .
I got fucking lucky and found somewhere that does £20 sessions, there are multiple places working on a ‘pay what you can’ basis if you know where to find them. but you’re absolutely right regardless, going to therapy is crucial but also inaccessible, especially in the cost of living crisis
This is why I can no longer afford a psychotherapist
I’ve got my first session tomorrow, free therapy with the NHS, but it took over a year of waiting to get it. I agree, it’s either expensive, or it’s such a long process, and if this therapist is like my last and turns out not to be for me then there is gonna be another 12-18 weeks even just to set up an appointment.
They really think a prescription and a visit will cure your whole life too lol
People are totally brainwashed and believe that therapy is the only solution.
And then they'll just keep repeating themselves and give you some toxic positivity bootstrap lecture when you say you know what the issue is and that you just need a lot of money because your issue is having no safety.
"Just get a 6 figure job! I did and I had a house at 20 with a 401k and savings account. It's not that hard." Like yeah thanks for bragging about having a house and managing to put me down in the same sentence..
They deliberately ignore the circumstances that caused the person to be sick. HELLO??? If I am a survivor of lite long abuso it probably means that I have no money nor support network to pay for therapy. Even the great Onno van der Hart wrote something like this in The Haunted Self.
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5mo
You know that, it is just bs, they are projecting because of ignorance.
For some it is, for others it’s therapy in combination with meds. It depends on your diagnosis.
Yeah it’s exhausting. I have found therapy to be counterproductive for me for a number of reasons, I’ve gotten a lot more out of doing solo work and like… making real friends who get it™️ I think therapy can be good for some people - although lbr bad therapy is both common and worse than no therapy - but I don’t think it’s okay for people to push it as The One And Only Way To Heal.
It’s literally like a religion. Having “boundaries” and doing “the work” is its 10 commandments.
I SURE WISH ANY THERAPIST WOULD EVER EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT “THE WORK” AND “TRUSTING THE PROCESS” ACTUALLY MEANS!!!! Not to rant @ u but like… god it’s so frustrating
case in point: this post being removed by mods because the OP dared to criticize those that tout therapy as the only option
Omg... disappointing
I got on my states Medicaide, and it covers the cost of my therapy sessions. It also has paid for me to stay in the hospital and do DBT.
You're right - it should be rephrased - it's not accessible for everyone.
I pay $180 per session for a trauma specialist. I've been slowly learning to budget and save for it. I have cut out all impulse spending (coffee, snacks), don't buy any takeout, no clothes, no shopping as a hobby. no alcohol. I got rid of my home internet for a few months as well. No car, no insurance. Cut back on transit, bike when the weather is nice. Last year I was too lazy and withdrawn to do this. But I am motivated to make the lifestyle changes I need, in order to elevate my life to a better place. Because therapy!
The trade off here is that my life is changed, I'm developing skill sets I would have never had otherwise. It's an investment. I'm poor, but I'm not a negative cynical bitch who hates everything anymore. No denying that it is a privilege. It takes an enormous amount of effort and sacrifice.
I have cut out all impulse spending (coffee, snacks), don't buy any takeout, no clothes, no shopping as a hobby. no alcohol. I got rid of my home internet for a few months as well. No car, no insurance. Cut back on transit, bike when the weather is nice. Last year I was too lazy and withdrawn to do this.
Honestly, a huge part of the problem is people thinking they're "lazy and withdrawn" if they're unable to create and maintain a lifestyle of superhuman austerity.
Most "normal" people couldn't manage doing all of this.
Yes perhaps, but I most literally mean that I was lazy. I legitimately enjoy biking, but when I'm stuck in a depression cycle I can't force myself to do it. I don't even try.
What I'm describing is me learning to budget. I didn't have any parental guidance on spending or saving - the opposite; they are awful with money and are now struggling in retirement. It's illuminating and also something I wouldn't have cared about before I hit my mid-thirties. But the reality is that I have a lot of bad habits to curb. I also read a few books that helped me realize my spending habits were actually the source of my misery. Like everything else, I'm the thing that needs to change - not the world around me! “Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I am changing myself.” - Rumi
I think about these lyrics from the end of After the Storm often:
I know it's hard
But did you even really try?
Maybe you could understand
When all you had to do was ask
And just open your mind
When everything is passing by
And all you had to do was try
Yeah, all you had to was try
And then there's the huge financial-risk factor of choosing a therapist, spending $150+ for each of however many sessions, then realizing that it isn't working because this isn't the right person, the right modality, the right point in life and that money feels 100% wasted. And you — or should I say "I" — end up in a self-blaming miasma for having wasted money, chosen wrongly, etc.
Therapy has truly turned my life around. With that said, I was fortunate to be able to find a therapist through my insurance. From what I understand, a lot of them don’t even take insurance and expect their clients to shell out $100-200 per session. I have no idea how people afford their therapy sessions.
Same. My weekly copay is $40 a session which isn’t nothing but luckily doable in my budget and I’m just skimping elsewhere because I need it.
I recommend therapy especially if you have insurance that covers it. By no means do I not see the privilege in that like OP is suggesting. If people can, I advocate for them to do so because I’ve seen how much it’s helped me in the last year. I also spent a decade NOT being able to afford weekly therapy and suffered. I get it. It isn’t always doable and that sucks.
While annoying, it isn’t the fault of people recommending therapy- it’s because of broken & underfunded healthcare systems and powerful rich people wanting masses of people to stay miserable and desperate so they can keep extracting labor and abusing our bodies as expendable.
Self study helps. Obviously it's not the same as a trained professional with a hopefully neutral to supportive view, but there are great therapy channels/blogs out there. (Dr. Glenn Doyle and Mickey Atkins are two of my personal favorites.) Tons of excellent books on trauma too. Pete Walker and Dr. Bruce Perry are two authors I found especially helpful.
Granted, having the time to engage with the resources is also a privilege even if the monetary cost is cheap to free. I've been unable to afford therapy for many years, but I've upped the self study and it has paid off. I am doing better now than I was in the past even with therapy support. Maybe others have a similar experience.
The world really sucks and it's unfair. Hopefully the more people with privilege who do access therapy will recognize the value and work to make it more accessible. At least people are talking about these struggles more than ever before and there are communities to turn to, even if a professional is currently out of reach.
Sorry it's feeling so hard and awful. 💚
I had no idea the British NHS is so bad. My psychiatrist is covered by my gov't healthcare, just like any other specialist. Yes, they need to hire more and the waitlists are awful, but it exists. I know America is bad but, that's awful. You deserve proper heathcare, including mental healthcare. If I didn't have my psychiatrist, I'd be dead by now.
PTSD is a brain injury. Parts of the brain have been damaged and re-wired. With Childhood CPTSD that damage was done during development, which makes it even harder to address.
There are lots of tools we can use to manage our PTSD, ways to mask it, or try to calm symptom intensity, but long term healing is really difficult without help. It's like any other serious injury or illness.
I highly recommend the following books whether or not you're in care.
The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van Der Kolk. (Very technical, good if you want to understand the mechanics of PTSD.)
The Myth of Normal by Gabor Mate (Examines how CPTSD can be the result of systemic social issues that are not our fault, and that we need to address as a society.)
It's OK that you're Not OK by Megan Devine. (Specific to grief but so applicable to all post traumatic stress. It talks about what we need from others vs what society thinks we need.)
If someone can afford to go to therapy they should go to therapy, but if you can't afford it or find any services that are free or at a cost that you can afford, then it's literally impossible for them to go to therapy. If you can't afford to do to something, then you can't do it. It's as simple as that.
Nobody expects you to do the impossible.
But nobody knows if a stranger on the internet can afford to do therapy or not, so when we give someone advice and tell them that they should see a therapist, we know that they might say that they can't afford it. It's not like someone is going to be mad or upset at someone who can't afford to get professional help. That really sucks.
I tell them to have a look on YouTube and Spotify because they have some pretty good mental health videos and podcasts that are free. It's not as good as seeing a professional, but it's better than nothing.
I just know I’m going to get jumped on but. I hear/read this kind of thing all the time- and then in the same breath I hear that person complain that their PTSD will never get better. There are a million great self help books out there- some of which I’ve used with success. You can write about it in a diary. You can record yourself talking through your experience on your phone. You can teach yourself strategies to get through/minimize anxiety attacks. Point is, I hear people all the time talking about how they’re helpless because they can’t afford therapy but. You’re not helpless at all. I grew up with a family who didn’t believe I was struggling at all and I had to do pretty much everything myself. I’ve only really been in therapy for the PTSD (which is expensive and paid out of my own pocket) within the last 2 years, but I use it in conjunction with all the other “self taught” stuff. There’s a way through, you just need to find what works for you.
I found the Pete Walker book really helped me.
He was also correct about how having a healthy relationship yourself can be healing, it just wipes out some of the baggage that goes I am worthless/unlovable etc etc. My relationship may not ultimately work out but if it doesn't, it will probably just be because we have irreconcilable differences about where/how to live. At least it has proved to me that I can compromise and listen and that I am not unlovable.
Would you mind sharing the title? I’m struggling a lot with having a healthy relationship with myself.
CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving and the link to read it free online is on his website: http://pete-walker.com/complex_ptsd_book.html
It talks about how an abusive/neglectful or traumatic childhood can lead to people developing unhealthy coping mechanisms and then how to work on those. I like the bit about working on this stuff as opposed to all the literature that just lists symptoms or problems and then tells us we are broken.
Thanks so much! I think this is exactly what I need- I struggle with valuing myself, setting proper boundaries and caring for myself due to my childhood- I have coping skills for plenty of my symptoms but I’d love to explore strategies to change the way I support myself! I was told that there was something broken/wrong with me my entire childhood and most of my teenage years- I’ve been fighting that demon ever since- maybe this will help!
Because going to therapy and reading self help books doesn't help everyone and everyone isn't like you.
A lot of issues people have are systematic...we're struggling financially. Reading a book about my trauma doesn't make me feel better at all. What would make me feel better is having a good support system and not having to walk on eggshells all day.
I don't get the obsession with trying to cure complex trauma. When people say that it's possible I just think theyre delusional..no offense.
It’s not about just reading a book though- this is exactly what I’m talking about. You don’t just read, it’s work. You reflect on your experiences based on what you have read, you learn new techniques for coping with various symptoms to get through life. It’s has similar effects to therapy if that is a financial barrier for you. No offense but continuing to reject options and saying that it won’t make you feel better.. that’s how you’ll end up stuck in this trauma forever. I understand systemic issues. But if you have no help, you need to help yourself or nobody will.
Sorry but the other guy is right. There are certain issues self help books can’t solve for many survivors. Co-regulation, tailored advice towards their specific situation, safe relational healing. I’ve already read lots of the recommended bibliotherapy.
Omg here we go with the," You're just lazy and you're not putting any effort in." Toxic positivity rant.
You don't know me and stop trying to assume you know anything about me. I've been to therapy and it doesn't help me and many others..stop invalidating other people's experiences. Stop with the same lines everyone keeps saying," You just need to spend years finding a therapist." " You're just not doing the work." You're just repeating what you've heard many people say because it sounds nice
Life isn't black and white as a lot of you try to make it..I promise you it's not. To try to sit here and act like you can just be cured of your trauma if you read a book and see someone once a week for 40 minutes is very one dimensional close minded thinking. If that was the case my abusive grandmother would've been cured and not been abusive anymore. She's been to therapy and been reading self help for years..she's still the same horrible person she's always been.
Respectfully, youre twisting my words and putting words in my mouth. If you actually read my comment, I myself wasn’t in therapy until about 2 years ago when I could pay it myself. I’m sorry to hear that therapy didn’t help you- but what do you intend to do the rest of your life? If outside help can’t help you, and you think it’s “toxic positivity” to try and help yourself, do you intend to just suffer your whole life? You will literally never get me to agree that it’s okay to just accept your circumstances and wallow in it. If I’m toxic for wanting to help myself and offering those same resources to others who may have barriers towards outside help, so be it. You’re clearly hurt and struggling and I really think you would benefit from some help, whatever kind you choose to recieve.
I'm not twisting anything. You just implied anyone that doesn't want to go to therapy and reading self help books is lazy and doesn't want to work.
And you're doing it now. "Do you intend to suffer your whole life?" No and acting like reading self help books and going to therapy is the end all be all for everyone is very close minded thinking. It's very messed up that you implying that I'm just playing the victim and want to suffer because I don't go to therapy. Don't like the gaslighting attempt..no one likes to suffer at any point in their life, so the,"You're just playing the victim and don't want to work. You want everything handed to you." Repeaded line isn't going to work on me. I've been working.
You're in therapy but it obviously hasn't helped with your empathy because you can't even have a conversation alone without assuming things about people and implying people that don't want to go to therapy are just lazy and want to suffer. What a horrible way of thinking.
This is the stuff OP is complaining about...and you guys wonder why the depression and $uicide rates are going up. Implying that anyone that doesn't think like you is just lazy and doesn't want to put the work in. You guys just repeat the same things, don't care about anyone else's perspective then act oblivious when people don't want to live anymore.
Again, that’s not what I said. You’re determined to make me into a villain and put words in my mouth so I’ll just say this- if you don’t want to read self help books or go to therapy because it doesn’t help then don’t! I’m not saying do things that don’t help you- I’m saying find the thing that does and jump in with both feet! I never said you, or anyone else were lazy and just wanted to suffer. I’m saying I’ve been in the place where I’ve tried many things, nothing helped and I gave up for a while out of pure exhaustion. I had life/circumstances kick me in the ass and I had no option but to try and seek help again. I tried many options that I absolutely hated and wouldn’t try again, that others have said helped them. Everyone is different. My only point is don’t give up. You’re not lazy or anything else. But you’re worth it to find something that helps you feel better. Whatever helps you cope, you deserve to heal from what hurt you.
My point is is that I'm sure most people are trying on this subreddit..it seems like most of us are in survival mode. I know I'm. I'm not making you a villian..youre an internet stranger lol. The real villians in my life are most of my family members.
I just don't like when people say certain things and act like it's easy to fix significant trauma. I'm not specifically talking about you.
Thank you for being understanding and still having a conversation with me.
Everything is so speciic to an individual, for sure. My husband and I both have CPTSD and ADHD. He has depression, I have bipolar. My mania and my ADHD (hyperfocus) allowed me to work multiple jobs and go to school. So I eventually, because of a career, had enough money to afford better therapy and meds. His depression killed any drive he had, his ADHD made him drop out. He's worked a series of dead end jobs and graduated college in his 30s. He makes half what I do. Alone, he'd be fucked. But it's unfair to compare us because my mental illness kinda helped me while his destroyed him, and I was able to get help way sooner. 2 drastically different lives.
And if that book triggers dissociative episodes? Flashbacks? Anxiety attacks? Panic, fear, etc... ? Where is your support? Who catches you when you are suddenly reliving an experience locked in your own head?
Exactly. In fact I think it would be like telling people to cure their Cancer by getting some good books and a Jade Egg.
It does depend on the severity of one's symptoms as well as any comorbidities. If you're experiencing dissociative flashbacks to certain triggers, certain books or videos, etc... may not be safe, especially if you've ever needed help getting back.
For some, being able to build their own practice isn't possible.
my entire paycheck goes to bills, I cant even afford food, yet these assholes will be like “you need to go to therapy, every good person goes to therapy!!”
crazy bc how u gonna say that while my batshit insane abusive mother is going to therapy with a doc who enables and encourages her
Ofc she is HIS CLIENT, she pays him and we wants to keep getting paid
This is a perennial issue for clients and therapists alike.
In the UK, £60-£90 per session is normal - and there are very few wealthy private therapists going around (those who do make alot tend to have additional income streams from supervising and teaching.)
Most private therapists tussle with this in some way or other: some offer sliding scale fees for a proportion of their clients, some offer a fixed number of sessions at heavily reduced rates, some offer students significant discounts, some partner with local charities and offer free / reduced rate sessions this way. Some offer group sessions - which can be a highly cost effective way for clients to learn really useful content which they can then work through on their own.
There are no magic bullet solutions and the situation in the UK is very messy. This really underlines the need for potential clients to be 'informed customers' before committing to making that investment in themself. Any credible therapist will be entirely transparent about what they do and do not offer.
I just got told by another subreddit to go to therapy and got banned because of what I posted! At this point I have nobody! Nobody will ever get or understand me! But I’m forced to understand them!
I know I am privileged and it saddens me not everyone can afford therapy. Which is why I tend to say "if you're able to, please consider therapy" instead of straight up assuming everyone is in the same situation as me. I am lucky enough to live in a country where health insurance pretty much covers most of my therapy so long as I am referred by my family doctor. If I wasn't in this position there's no way I could've afforded to pay for it myself and I'd probably have sought out self help books, more places like this sub (maybe irl if possible) where people can relate to my experiences and pain and I to theirs. Because truthfully, realising there's others like me out there who struggle with the same things made me feel less alone and that in itself is already quite helpful. Therapy is not the only way to heal but it is one of the best ways imho. Granted you have a GOOD therapist because some of them are really bad at their job...
It’s also kind of useless. It took me four years to find a therapist that seems to be useful. I feel like I’ve literally wasted the past four years over nothing and the opportunities I had when I started therapy that could’ve really helped me try to make the most of my situation and overcome my trauma the way I would’ve wanted is completely gone. It’s so devastating. All bc the person I worked with repeated “you’re too hard on yourself” on record. Quack quack quack. I could’ve been solving my actual problems when they were solvable. So sad. What a waste of opportunity.
I live in the US and pay $145 per session for therapy. I make it a priority. The money comes out of my food budget. I go to therapy the day I get paid, and it leaves me with little to no money in my checking account until I receive my next paycheck (in 2 weeks).
So do I. But I struggle to hold down a job and afford it
$145 per one session, that's sick. Doesn't this pressure make you insane?
I think untreated CPTSD would make me more insane. It’s the trade off many of us face.
But this price sounds like scam. No therapist should ever charge that much, it's exploitation of people in need.
I live in a HCOL area where many therapists are out of network providers. They charge you for each session and provide you with a super bill to give your insurance. Your insurance will reimburse you to a certain point and it can take weeks. These therapists charge between $125 - $300/session.
I once saw a therapist who charged $150/session and she was honestly one of the least effective and warm therapist I’ve ever been to. I was shocked she was charging that much because I was living in the cheapest towns in the Midwest at the time but I was desperate.
I’m paying $250 per session. Oof
I personally make therapy my top priority, I spend my money on therapy before anything else but that's me. I also get disability fund, before that I didn't have money for therapy, so I spent most of it on this. I see this as a top priority because it would help me handle a job.
Completely agree, OP. I can’t afford it, my med school doesn’t offer it because we’re all adults now and the real world doesn’t offer nice things like that for free (ironic for an institution for training healthcare professionals, isn’t it?) and on top of that, until I’m 25, I’m on my mom’s insurance, which would notify her that I’m going to counseling. No, it wouldn’t matter with doctor patient confidentiality because I don’t want them to even KNOW I’m going (they don’t believe in it anyway).
And of course the one time in college I tried to go, I got told by the therapist I went to that he doesn’t understand the problems I’m dealing with (at the time it was just porn addiction and bulimia, now I’d add in my ptsd), so he told me that I wasn’t going to get anywhere if I kept seeing him. So I just never went again and probably never will.
But that’s life, you know, time to be a big boy and try to fix shit myself with no know-how or resources. Eso si que es.
Yes this all day. I'm in the states though....I've not had health insurance for a year (quit my stressful job after a meltdown, recovering alcoholic fueled partially by cptsd.. AA does NOT work for me also it's not therapy for the underlying issue) and I live in a super rural area. We have no psychiatrist/talk therapy local AT ALL and online places are still sliding scale...I'm unemployed because I'm mentally ill....trying to heal so I can go back to work so I can have money.....need money for therapy ...
I got so extremely lucky that a bus from 3 hours away comes into town once a week to provide talk therapy/meds for people in my situation. They just started like a few months ago. They need to be EVERYWHERE. Im so serious. All I can think is "people who are in really shit jobs like part time food service with no health insurance and are mentally ill straight up just have to suffer huh. They really just want poor people dead huh"
Im disabled and therapy honestly isn’t made with us in mind. I’ve tried for 2 decades. When your body doesn’t function you are ultimately living in a different reality than everyone else.
Absolutely. We need connection with at least one loving person. Not someone who has to be paid to pretend to give a fuck about you. If you research ACE’s you learn that the effects of trauma(s) is mitigated by having at least one supportive and loving person. Therapist can help… if they provide you with information on how to heal from trauma but talk therapy is absolutely a massive waste of time for many of us.
Totally agree. Therapy has changed me but I know I’m one of the lucky ones. This can’t go on forever, something’s gotta change.
Check for local AA or NA groups. Talk to the group leader. See if they’ll let you join them. That’s group therapy. A lot of those people have CPTSD that drove them to their addictions. Those are free and could help.
AA isn't group therapy because there's no interaction or feedback or invigilator who is qualified to hold that space for deep trauma.
Also, as someone who spent a lot of time in AA/NA I would be really wary. AA meetings have been some of the most trauma denying places I've ever been in. Lots of reasons for this e.g. older people, a culture of 'taking responsibility' for your addiction which a lot of people mean 'getting over' your pain because anger is labelled as resentment, and also if you're not feeling good the general feedback is 'work the steps' rather than look at your pain.
TW CSA: I wish this example was a joke but I heard a woman once share (while literally screaming at the meeting) 'When I was 8 years old my mother walked out on me! When I was 10 my brother started raping me, when I was 15 my grandfather started raping me. THAT'S NOT WHY I'M AN ALCOHOLIC!!!!!!!!!!'
The meeting all clapped at her wisdom. And it was also the reason why I decided to stop going to meetings and do trauma work instead.
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PS There are other 12-step fellowships with much better trauma-informed recovery like Al-Anon, SLAA, WA and at a stretch Coda.
I’m so sorry your experience was so negative. Where I live the persons who ‘host’ AA/NA are licensed therapists. I didn’t realize that wasn’t the norm.
Wow. That is NOT the case in the UK. It's volunteer led and full of bat-shit crazy people.
There's a lot of 13th-stepping (having sex with newcomers) and I lot of boomer type personalities.
Wow! That doesn’t sound helpful, at all!!
Russel Brand is in London UK NA and let's just say recently my friend asked all her female friends in NA if they were surprised (based on their interactions with him) and it was a resounding no.
I don’t know what that means 😅 I don’t know anything about him other than he does some voice acting for animated things.
Adult Children of Alcoholics is a good program, I think. the tools I've learned there were very trauma focused. it seems, to me, like the cptsd program. I came into the zoom meeting, which was hundreds of people (morning meditation meeting), and almost nobody had their camera on, and I knew, these are my people ;)
Also those people are not considering that, if it's already hard in first world countries, imagine how it has to be in other many countries that doesn't have that much access to healthcare. It's madness
Not only that for me it took like 6 months to find a therapist that worked with my insurance that specializes in trauma, get on a waiting list, and when I finally found one my insurance was cancelled so I had to stop.
Not to dissuade anyone from getting therapy as it’s well worth it but it takes so much mental fortitude and persistence to even find one that matches you.
I'm one of those people who've come up with 'this shit' once or twice. People here live in different countries/parts of the world. Therapy may not be so impossibly expensive for everyone everywhere. I managed it in my (Scandinavian) country, while on a relatively small temporary disability type income. Someone else may be able to do the same, though probably not in the US or UK. Other parts of Western Europe, though. Maybe some South American contries.
It depends on where you live really. In my country it's paid by the health insurance. Still you have to wait for a while until you actually can get a session and then maybe it's also not the right therapist.
I think therapy is quite useful for those that don't know how to cope and have few other resources. It can give you good information on why your body/mind does what it does if it's the right one. What options do you have that aren't therapy? Do you have a good social circle that supports you? Do you have other resources such as sports, drawing, etc? If you don't know what helps you, then therapy can be quite good for helping you figure that out.
I agree therapy isn't all you need and in many countries not affordable too, but at least in the first steps of treating trauma is a good thing.
Also most people probably have already considered therapy and whether they can afford it so it might not be the best advice in general.
I got referred on the NHS for therapy and EMDR for CPTSD, didn’t pay anything for it!
Therapy is great but I wish people would make other suggestions about how to treat our mental health. I have found a number of things that have helped a ton. I really appreciate TikTok and YouTube and such for giving us access to therapists and other experts all over the world.
i have yet to really feel totally at ease with a therapist, there have been a couple pretty glaring problems so its hard to trust now.but either way, like if someone is saying they are struggling or something and the other persons knee jerk response is that you should go to therapy, it's pretty low empathy too. How much effort does it cost to just say really almost anything else? Just even a, "Aw I'm really sorry to hear that.
Also my therapist will only see me every other week cause they are too busy and there is a shortage where I live so idk, that is another issue too.
See, this is part of why nothing gets done. All you guys are doing now is fighting in the comments. I've been abused for the last 40 years... I'm 40. nobody cares. everyone I tell thinks it's exaggeration... hahahhah. I still live wiht my parents, WHO ARE MY ABUSERS and whom I abuse in self- defense, because of health issues, undiagnosed PMDD which makes me hormone-suicidal before nearly every period, forces me to feel black-out inducing pain, forces me to be verbally abusive agaisnt my will every fucking month, financial issues and other problesm that are NOT. My. FAult. and unfixable by me. Get a job? jokes on y'all I can't medically work! GEt on SSI? Why? Si I can get worn down by my anxiety disorder via crazy ass lawyers and days full of phone calls and the fear that eventually, if I sneeze funny, TEHY WILL TAKE M Y60 Billion Double Dollars (read: 200$ in this economy) AWAY AND FORCE ME TO PAY IT BACK. AND OH YES, let's not forget about the fact that you get forced to see a psych doc every few so that they can 'dtermine' whether you still have the GENETIC FUCKING PROBLEM YOU WERE BORN WITH AND WILL DIE WITH. ;) IT's just another prison. I am not gonna stop talking about this until it is solved. never.
Why can't anyone just Admit they are overhwlemed, like, collectively? this world is all kinds of wrong. Its BUILT that way. And please, I am not actually ranting, just being sarcastic. Peace y'all.
Therapy should be done if possible. The situation in many other countries is quite sinister and it is not easy to afford trauma therapy. Where I live it costs me nothing to get a therapist or trauma therapy like PTSD-DBT in a psychiatry. If someone is from the place where I live, I would always recommend going for therapy, etc.
But as I said, the situation differs in other countries. Even if universal healthcare is available, it is not implicated, that you will get help for all your health problems.
This is something I have always in my mind if using sites like Reddit, where many people from all around the world come together. It is always shocking to read, that people can not afford medication, doctor visits, or therapy. I would probably not survive long in the US.
OP is from the UK, I don't know much about the NHS. So how does this work? I checked their website and they are writing something about "NHS talking therapies" or trauma-focused CBT, how much does this all cost?
Their solution to your problems is to tell you to go to therapy, you say you can't afford it and they follow up with silence
I think most of us need therapy to simply survive, so after food, water, and shelter, there’s therapy. It’s a sacrifice, I personally choose therapy over nice things, but that also improves my quality of life. At the end of the day, I can’t move forward in my life without therapy.
Yes it’s expensive, but so is everything else. Prioritize your health and wellbeing, invest in yourself.
Idk, I went through the state (Netherlands). Had a 9 month waitinglist, but now have free theraoy and meds...
In my opinion, even if it's economically inaccessible, the problem lies in narcissistic and negligent and ineffective therapists
I’ve found BetterHelp to be about half the price of in person weekly sessions, and pretty effective when I found a good therapist. Could be worth looking into.
Therapy is very triggering and makes me at risk after appointments because I have to tell them all my trauma and after that all is resurfaced I'm a mess
Please avoid anyone who makes you talk about it and relive the past!!! I've had my fair share of those that dredge up crap and then leave with no progression or support as soon as time is up.
Im pretty sure the consensus for therapists who kept up with the evidence is to categorically not do that. We can do a lot of trauma healing by simply learning to cope and manage in more healthy ways right here and now. I've even found an EMDR specialized therapist that would help me simply find the feeling space instead of totally go back into the memory. Like feel it just enough to work through it. But she was incredibly expensive and very hard to find.
it really depends on where ur at. where I'm at, it doesn't cost money as it's healthcare. please see some nuance before posting stuff like this.
well i live in EU with FREE HEALTHCARE and still can't afford therapist.
general rule is if you're privileged to have something others dont, do not stop them from venting their frustration because "not an issue for you". just skip the post if it doesn't apply, geez.
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I used to get free therapy from a Christian charity but they are based in my home county that I left for my health and safety and NHS mental health care pretty much doesn't exist unless you're "short term" struggling. 🙃
Amen! And the struggle to actually find a good match if ever
I would take free therapy provided by the state or w/e the cheapest one is honestly. I did, got lucky with a few good therapists. Im in the USA though, idk how it is over there. I would almost never pay for that stuff out of pocket unless I was making over $100/hr
UKer here. Yep, too expensive for me. I begged for help from my doctor who sent me to someone who charges £50 an hour, who I couldn't even get to because guess what? You needed a car to get there. At the time I didn't have one.
I'm on a four year waitlist for an ADHD test. I've very obviously had it my entire life, but because I'm smart I was just labelled as a bad kid and mum knew. She had me tested and refused to have it out on my record.
Yeah, I worked hard to get a job where I had benefits, two years in they transition is to this shit bargain bin insurance and I lose my therapist as a result. It went from a $20 copay to $160 without insurance. The cost of living adjustments are killing mental health. Thankfully a bunch of people are complaining about the insurance shift. I work in healthcare and I just hope the nurses start a walk out so the other departments can to.
I am currently in therapy with the NHS and mind.org has a self referral system too for a 6 week course. Pretty good so far.
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Too much trauma to function. Need to function to work. Need to work to afford to tackle trauma.
Make it make sense.