AITAH for withholding money from my wife for her church?

In your budgeting give each of you an equal amount of personal money/fun money that’s entirely your own. If she wants to spend her fun money on her church donation that’s her choice.

Sorry forgot to add NTA

OP here. Thanks all for the comments so far, I’ll admit as I did above, that that underlying feeling of “my money” makes me feel like an asshole and up until this point everything financially we have decided has been a very loving/civil mutual decision. It’s not really until now that I’ve ever had that “my money” feeling in my head. I married her because I do believe in a lifelong partnership where what’s mine his hers and visa versa, but with a plan for kids in the future amongst other aspirations I would much rather have this go towards retirement accounts, college funds, rental property investments, etc and view this as not a good financial move, albeit we CAN afford it.

NTA. Not even close.

Yes, it’s both of your money but that means major expenses need to be agreed to by both of you and shouldn’t be something which only one of you wants.

If you came home in a new sports car that she didn’t like which had a monthly payment of 10% of your income, you’d be an asshole for spending that much on something you want and she didn’t want. Same with her wanting to spend that much on something you don’t want.

She wants to help the church, she can volunteer and stuff like you said.

I believe they call it tithe. My religion is not forcing me to tithe but others are requiring it for their everyday expense.

You might want to set aside a percentage of your income as your wife’s salary and she can get the 10% from there. NTA

Do up your budget and she can pay her tithe from her personal discretion funds.

Just to explain the 10% - that's a standard tithe amount across most Christian churches I've seen. Depending on who you talk to, it's 10% of gross household income.

NTA

If you can afford it, suggest to your wife that rather than giving 10% to the church, you give 10% directly to charities that you both agree to support.

There's so many food banks in Western countries that could use the money so much more than the church. Isn't that what Tithing is, money the church gives to the poor.

NTA let this be a lesson to anyone reading who’s not religious but dating someone who very much is

NTA. Her church is not "struggling" that is the lie they tell to everyone. I was a stay home mother for years so I am in no way trying to demean your wife. If giving a ridiculous amount of money to the church is so important to her then she can get a job. Or as a few other people have suggested you give her whatever amount you're comfortable with monthly and if she chooses to turn around and hand it over to the church that's her business.

NTA, religious nuts are the worst. So they need 10% of everyone's income to come and worship God? And they pay 0 taxes? Fucking criminals.

NTA, this is the hill I’d die on. Happy wife happy life in most cases but no way in hell would I give once cent to a church.

I wouldn't want to pay for their abuse lawsuits either.. NTA

I think a good way to negotiate this is to ask your wife to possibly get a part time, night, or weekend job whereby she can donate as much of the proceeds as she would like up to that 10% of income number. That being said, those hours may mean less done around the house, fewer meals, less time spent with kids, etc. As long as you are ok with the possibility that your time spent together and house related chores may be less, you both somewhat get what you want.

That being said, NTA. I would have a problem if my husband decided to spend 10% of our money on anything without us agreeing, be it church, sending money to family, hobbies, etc. This needs to be agreed on by both parties.

NTA. There is NO way I would go along with doing this. I would divorce first. She can get a part time job and contribute whatever she wants from that money. I would also really look into what this money would go towards as far as if it really would reinforce your values in the world. While not 1 cent of my money would be tithed, realistically 50% of the two of your money is hers so it would be 5% anyway not 10.

NAH, I'd say. You have different priorities in spending your money, and 10% of your income is a lot, no question.

With one income, I assume you have a budget? X% for rent/mortgage, Y% for utilities, Z% for savings, etc.? And anything left over is for your personal spending?

If so, suggest your wife can donate to her church from her personal fun money; because otherwise, you'll be saving less, or having less for vacations, etc. Find some way to compromise on this.

NTA Be careful and lock down your money!!! My grandparents were in this exact situation and my grandmother sent a check for $10,000 (in the 80s!!!!) to her church when she knew he wouldn’t agree. It’s a racket and no one is as good at guilting/conning people out of money like religious leaders.

Yes they could afford it too. But my grandfather busted his ass for that money. It almost destroyed their marriage and it was damaged forever. Decades later she still had no access to his checking account and he had to write out checks to cash if she needed it. That might sound like financial abuse and maybe it was. But since she recently lost $130,000 through a mailed lottery scam my grandfather wasn’t wrong to do it either.

ETA: The 10% is called tithing. It’s a common for churches to instruct their parishioners to donate 10%. I believe it’s in the Bible.

Why 10%

Because she's being misled/lied to from church leaders, who are ignorant of the very things they preach about, i.e. the Bible.
In the Old Testament the principle of the Tithe (10%) was instituted, but it's not really 10% and it's not for whatever churches preach about. You can do the research yourself, haha.

One way to solve this ridiculousness, is have your wife study her own bible!!! lol You both can find the truth of this BS doctrine.

NTA and this “church” sounds predatory as hell. Your right it is shared money which means BOTH of you need to agree. She can’t guilt you into it like they’re trying to guilt her. Stand your ground

NTA. This is a practice called "tithing" and it's a financially abusive practice of religious organizations, used to guilt trip members into giving vastly more than they can afford or feeling they have a debt for the balance.

It's a massive red flag.

Nope. Fuck religion if it wants your money.

Tithes? Fuck you.

You can also ask to meet with the church and look over their financials. Churches don’t have to file tax documents the same way every charity in the nation does. They remain secret. So there is no transparent way to look at their finances. But. You can ask. If they don’t want to show you? That would be a major deal breaker for me. Are they in trouble? Prove it. And how would my contribution fix it?

Nope! hey! here is a thought! she can PRAY about it. Surely God will grant her prayer to give her money so she can give it to him! You don't need to be involved at any level!

NTA

Churches used to be responsible for caring for the poor and other charity work. Depending on your country, those needs are covered by the government and your taxes. I don’t think 10% of your net or gross income is a fair number to ask from a young couple, especially when only one of you attends the church. Your wife can do good works and volunteer her time with church activities instead of committing your funds.

Edit: NTA

I don’t expect any up votes on this…I have worked in the church as a pastors assistant and that included seeing where the money goes. If people actually knew what the money was spent on and how irresponsible the people leading the church are, they wouldn’t be tithing. Churches consistently guilt people into giving money. Your sins aren’t forgiven unless you tithe. Money is spent on the pastor’s wife getting new boobs…lavish trips anytime they go for conferences. Yet, the people giving are the people who actually need the money for bills and food. Church has the approach that you have to suffer for god to hear you. Why would god ever want you to suffer? Absolute man made scheme.

Any organized religion are the biggest grifters on the planet, hold your ground, say no

NTA This is tithing. I was raised Catholic and this kind of forced tithing is financial abuse. It’s an enormous red flag and I would be concerned what else has been going on that you don’t know about. In fact I would encourage you to start attending services and functions to look for other warning signs of extremism.

With dwindling patronage churches start to get help from whoever will show up for them and that’s usually hate groups that use religious texts to justify their ideology.

Anytime there is a deficit in the power dynamics of a relationship the person with less power is at risk for abuse. In this case your wife submits to the church and I would not be surprised that prior to her coming to with this request if there hasn’t been significant emotional abuse and manipulation because that’s what they need to do to make their demand seem reasonable to their victims.

Abusers frequently use the venire of goodness of a profession to help them justify their actions like a church, so don’t think of this as something special because it’s religion.

Imagine if you spent an hour a week at a coffee shop and you made a lot of friends there. You organized with those people and saw them outside of the coffee shop. Imagine this goes on for years maybe decades then the owner of the coffee shop tells you if you don’t give 10% of your income we will exclude you. You don’t belong here anymore. You don’t believe the things we believe. You won’t be joining us in those activities outside of the coffee shop. If you don’t pay that means you don’t believe the things you said. It means you don’t love us.

See that forced tithing is a threat. It’s an attack on everything she believes herself to be. She’s in trouble.

If your wife wants to financially support her church, then she can get a job

NTA no way a church would be getting a penny from me. She’s your wife, so it’s not really just “your money” but I don’t think you’re the AH for not donating it to a church.

Tell her get a job and use that

Since medieval times all Christians are supposed to “tithe” (donate) 10% of our wages to the church. It’s an outdated belief to say the least.

You don't have kids now right. Let her get a job and donate whatever she wants out 9f that. Tithing is not a good idea.

NTA. She can work part time and donate her income if this is so important to her.

NTA, don’t do it. You will surely regret you ever did

Hell no. Tell her to get herself a job and give it away if she wants, but that you expect her to still contribute to the house. Just giving money away to an institution a billion times wealthier than you is incredibly insane.

10% is considered the standard biblical "tithe" required of the faithful in scriptures...so that's why she specified that amount.

HOWEVER...if you do not follow the same religion, are not a member of her church, and don't adhere to their teachings....your income should NOT be figured into HER tithe amount. Tithing is an individual thing, and she should only factor a tithe using HER income as the church member.

OP...I say this with alllll the good will... You and your wife need to get on the same page regarding religious practices, because it seems like she is attempting to force you to follow her beliefs instead of respecting your stance.

Tell her that she can get a job if she wants to donate to the church. NTA

NTA. If he wants to donate money to her church (and let me repeat her church, not your church because you have nothing to do with it) then tell her she can get a job and donate the money from her paycheck.

No church deserves anybody's money. Biggest scam

Like another redditor suggested: set up a budget for individual "fun money". If your wife wants to donate hers, that's her prerogative. But you do not need to agree to give up 10% of your income.

If it continues to be an issue, you need to have a frank discussion about religion again. You had gotten the expectation that you would not be required to engage in her religion. Now, she's demanding that 10% of all your money be put towards her church. This is not consistent with what you'd agreed to before getting married.

Also probably want to have a chat about how you'll handle kids. If you're this non-religious compared to your wife, that's a big potential hazard in the future.

Nta.

The biggest scam that goes unchecked. Sorry people are gullible to give their money up. That 10% can be saved for a rainy day. All these so called preachers living in megamansions.

NTA

Geez - how could you both NOT have this conversation before marriage?

OP you're NTA.

You're the 1 paying the bills, rent, etc while your wife stays at home unrealistically expect YOUR WAGES TO GO A ORGANIZATION THAT DOES NOT HAVE A SHARE nor pays your bills etc & expect to bail out its sinking ship.

If your wife had a wage earning job then she can fund that sinking ship that calls itself a church.

At the end of the day you prioritize what's actually realistic versus a sinking ship that got itself into that position from the start.

10% is in the Bible and is call “tithing”.

“ I am certainly okay with You tithing 10% of your discretionary funds but not 10% of my salary as that is too much out of the budget “

"I'm not religious, she said she was OK with this."

Guess what.

Just like… from an information standpoint. 10% is pretty common tithing. I remember being a preteen and finding out the dominant religion in my area required (yes, required) 10% and being shocked, and my cousin said that their church also has a 10% tithing. The religion I’m referring will basically withhold resources and even your access to heaven basically if your tithing is not “current”. This is a hard one. I think NTA but there is a bigger conversation to be had. She has a right to want to donate to her church, but also even if it’s not your money vs her money, it’s your money as a couple. And as a COUPLE you are not members, so why as a couple should you tithe?

So... Be logical about it.

Take your budget: Revenue minus expenses.

Let's say you make 100,000.

And let's say that providing housing to your family is a Christian commandment, and your mortgage is 25k a year.

And feeding your family is a Christian commandment, and that's 25k a year.

Then the net amount would be 50k.

So then she can only take 10% of 50k.

Play chess.

NTA. people love to engage in mystical thinking when it comes to religion. any reputable church or religious person who cared about their constituents would not ask this of them. you need to stand your ground, but do so in a respectful and compassionate way. she truly believes that this is best for the family and moving her from that belief will be close to impossible.

That is called a tithe. It means you donate 10% of your income to the church. You should go to the atheist reddit. They will answer your questions better. Edit: adding NTA

NTA If you have to pay into it then it's a cult as far as I'm concerned. Why can't she fundraise for the church instead of expecting you to give your hard earned money to a religion you have nothing to do with (belief wise)

NTA. What kind of car does the Pastor drive?

10% is the standard tithe for a churchgoer to enter the kingdom of God when they die. Unfortunately her church-going friends probably assume you’re going to hell because you don’t attend church and you don’t approve of a tithe.

As a sidenote, growing up in a Baptist Church I remember one of the prominent members who was also a schoolteacher, complained regularly about her non-church going husband and asked people to pray for his forgiveness and unfortunately he wouldn’t attend church. Meanwhile he was screwing a buddy of mine who was a fellow high school student.

Don’t give the church money. They don’t use cash in heaven.

Maybe she can respect the fact that others do not believe and would not try to force her belief on others.

Nope. Yanta. Unless one or both members of a couple has independent means, charitable donations have to be agreed upon. AND, George Carlin once observed, “God- pretty good guy. But he’s bad with money. Always needs money.”

10% of the normal tithing amount, so nothing strange about that. I would argue that in the event that the entire family isn't religious (or doesn't attend the same church) it should be 10% of the personal income of the family member who attends that church. So in this case that'd be 0, or if your wife has x amount of free spending money she should tithe 10% of that.

You are definitely NTA for refusing to tithe to a church you neither belong to or agree with.

A compromise could be that you keep your money but say a prayer for the church on each payday

You get what you pay for when you marry somebody that believes in magic and has an imaginary daddy.

10% is the standard that Catholic Churches will tell you to give in tithes. It’s a bunch of horseshit if you ask me. They guilt their parishioners into it, to the point where I’ve seen people who are on the brink of foreclosure refusing to stop giving to the church, but when asked if the church could make a couple mortgage payments for them, they go quiet. If your wife wants to give to the church, she can get a PT job and give it all to them.

NTA.

if your wife has time to go to church then she has time to get a job to donate to a church…

Also, IMO if your wife was dead set on helping the church - then even the physical support of volunteering would suffice. Moreover, even if it was 1% of your income would suffice…

Wife needs to get a job. You have no children and it doesn’t - shouldn't - take all day to clean a house. If she wants to contribute to her church, she can pay for it herself.

NTA

Tell her to simply pray for God to give them money. Cos that works, doesn't it?

OPs wife may go out and get a job and donate her paychecks to her church

NTA, I'd just say no, God doesn't need money.

This is called tithe.

But here's a nice solution:

• Make the rule that she has to donate her own money. Would require her to have a job, but she could donate freely all she wants.

10% is a common "tithe" for LDS/Mormon churches I believe. I'm not prying, but if that's the church she's attending, it's 100% a scam. Those churches, for the most part, are phenomenally wealthy.

NTA, and keep an eye out for your wife in case the church tries any more "culty" practices like that.

If this happens to be the Mormon church, look into the 100+ Billion dollar rainy day fund they have. Many local branches are indeed cash starved but the parent corporation is not.

NTA. You aren't a member of that church and aren't required to give 10% of the household income. I'd say that y'all should sit down and decide how much you both can budget for yourselves for donations and spending money. She can do what she wants with hers. Also, the word tithe appears only four times (Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; 18:12; Hebrews 7:5-9), and none of these passages are instructions for church-age Christians to give a tithe. The epistles are the instruction letters for New Covenant believers (those under the law of Christ), but there's no mention of giving a tithe.

N T A - It’s called tithing…10% of ur annual gross income…mostly only the religious groups that follow the Old Testament adhere to it strictly…LDS, 7th Day Adventist, Jewish, Church of God, Pentecostals, snake ppl etc…others say God has believers “under grace” since Jesus & it’s not a “law/requirement” now…u can also contribute time r even donate to ministries/charities outside of a particular church…u haven’t said if y’all have kids, retirement accts, her decision to not work etc…regardless, it’s not supposed to be given begrudgingly r under pressure from neone…if it’s a hard yes from her & a hard no from u, I would suggest she get a part time job, contribute 10% of her gross income to church & the rest she can decide…but it would benefit her to look ahead…a part time job will help her with SocSec credits also…since ur comfortable donating time, u both could help out at a soup kitchen, Habitat for Humanity r any number of good organizations that need volunteers…should be a win-win situation for all & no resentments…

Nta, let me guess? Mormon church? They demand 10% of EVERYTHING you make. If you win $5 on a scratch off ticket you have to give them 10%. Tell her if she wants to donate money to her church she can work for money to donate. Household income should not go to her paying her way to heaven which is basically what that 10% is that they demand. She’s prolly getting hammered by the congregation. SMH

NTA

The important thing here is that this is her church asking for money. Not a homeless shelter, domestic violence shelter, etc. A church. So she is asking you to pay the salary of employees, building upkeep, supplies, etc, before any money actually manages to trickle down and help anyone. And are they fully transparent? That's a big question

So, in your shoes, I would simply tell your wife that you are not willing to give any money you earn to an entity instead of actual people (or animals).

Then, sit down with her and pick a few actual local (not Salvation Army or other international entities) charities to give some monthly donations. Walk in the door to the local DV shelter, animal shelter, and homeless shelter, and ask them for a current list of what they need (something other than cash - like blankets, socks, toys for kids, dog/cat food, etc.) Nearly every charity has monthly items they need and you can usually sign up to their newsletters to get their monthly needs list. Then send it over or deliver it yourself. My local animal shelter has actually made an arrangement with Amazon, so I can buy items they need online, and Amazon delivers it for free in two days. The same with one of our local shelters. That way, they get what they need very quickly.

If your wife objects, then you should tell her you have no problem with her getting a job and using that money to tithe, or settling on a monthly "allowance" of fun money for each of you to spend in any way you wish and she can tithe from that.

Just, FYI, this isn't going to get any easier. Your conflicting belief structures are going to go head to head about a lot of things. Especially if you have children. Good luck with that.

NTA & I really like the suggestions that she should be able to use her discretionary money for the tithing if that's what she wants to do.

NTA - - I think 10% is a lot for something you don't believe in. She is free to toil and donate as much as she wants to her church. I would say no. I would also make it clear in any legal documentation that assets are not to be given to a religious organization.

This was actually a dilemma in my marriage. I visited with my church leaders that told me if paying a 10% tithe was having a negative impact on my marriage, then I could contribute in other ways.
I chose to tithe grocery money, because I controlled that. I tithed my time and offered free child care or other services to church members in need. If they paid me against my wishes, I paid that to the church.

Your wife needs to be creative and realize that time is money. If money isn’t possible without putting a strain on a relationship (family first), then work with what she has—just as people tithed with produce or products in the past.

I think 10% is the standard amount for tithing. My father was a Methodist minister at a series of Poor Rural churches. Attendance might be 6 people or might be 20.

Every week my parents tithed 10%, which was out in an envelope as part of my Father’s pay. Endless circle. Ridiculous.