Realistically, you will turn up weeds but tilling won't be a complete waste, especially if you introduce new organic matter and seed it well. If the stuff you seed it with is healthy, it should outcompete any introduced weeds. (In theory)

I'm finished with this conversation. I appreciate the back and forth but I don't believe any more useful dialog can be had. I disagree that you can just magically "know" when someone is living in unrepentant sin unless they have divulged that information to you. Anything other than that is conjecture and judgement. Sure there are specific cases of sin that are obvious like murder and adultery, but sin in general, especially of the ilk one might be thinking about when discussing political views, cannot be pronounced and executed by anyone but God.

So bringing this back to the beginning, when the "Christian" people I personally know "hate libs", it is not scriptural church discipline, it's political bias dressed up as holiness. And the churches that have split was because the church discipline of the leaders failed because they valued politics over scripture.

Have a good day, and I hope you will love your neighbor, even if they believe differently than you do.

So I don't disagree with that statement, but I take umbrage with being the judge of determining willful, continuing sin unless it's a church member.

You're just quoting the passage on church discipline, which is referring to how to deal with someone willfully sinning within the body of Christ. There's a huge caveat here and that is that both members of this group have the same exact covenant with one another as believers in Jesus.

When your gospel is right-wing talking heads, then your sin starts looking a lot like "libs", not real sin or a real gospel.

I would actually say in a biblical sense, believers are called to hate in some of the way you're saying

This is a disgusting twisting of scripture when referring to someone who votes a certain way. No US party is "Biblical". Also, hate is akin to murder in your heart per Jesus. Treating people like unbelievers and removing them from membership or leadership through church discipline is not the same thing at all as hate. They can sometimes coexist but they are not the same. You should not hate your brother, no matter what they do. Judgement is the LORD's.

It's literally the opposite of the great commission and Jesus' pronouncement of the greatest commandment(s) to hate.

Now people may hate Christians, as is prescribed in the Bible. It's not ever meant for Christians to hate back.

Well, my words were not thoughts, they are a summation of real experiences that have literally torn families apart. But I suppose your assumptions are more real than my friends and family who lost their safety nets and social circles.

You're not entirely wrong, but this is also a generalization. I think all of us here can build a strawman and knock it down, but the difficulty we're facing in the Church especially is that the nation's politics should not be the primary focus of our energy but just a facet of our duty as citizens.

That being said, whenever a friend or family member brings up a talking point that I can address, I do so. E.g. my wife's uncle did not know Trump endorsed and was pitching Lee Greenwood's Bibles that contained all that extra stuff. He was surprised and disgusted -- but it was just one pebble on the mountain of disinformation he's heard.

Are you ... gatekeeping hatred?

I'd make a strong case for any Verb the Noun bands, primarily because they've been attempting to make the same record for the past 20 years over and over again.

Bro, AITA is not even heavy. It's a pop album. I could see someone make a case for Identity Crisis, but I'd make a case that Fire was heavier than anything they did before -- it just isn't uptempo.

Hard Disagree. But that's fine, we can all have different tastes.

I realize there's definitely some personal stuff too, but Every Time I Die 's latest (and last) album Radical had a few bangers like "Planet Shit" that should drive that point home.

Also a shoutout to As Cities Burn on their last album as well Scream Through the Walls with songs like Chains and 2020AD.

He took a break to be a Pastor at Mars Hill church, where he also was in one of the bands and wrote worship music. He then burned the door on the way out of the church when he published his letter of resignation online because the Elder board didn't heed his warnings about their then pastor. The podcast "The rise and fall of mars hill" gets into it and is a worthy listen.

No stress brother. Glad your family made it out and that that pastor was able to help you out. Thanks for the anecdote. I definitely know the hypocrisy you are speaking about. But what I don't think we can really know is whether someone has a deep inner life and connection with God, despite their hideous or awful actions. Even David, God's beloved, cheated and murdered the Bathsheba's husband at some point in his life. Hindsight is 20/20 when judging others, but in the moment it's not our job.

I wouldn't say part of any wider pattern necessarily. Although I have witnessed first-hand some of that when I was a part of the Southern Baptist church for a couple years (undercurrent of Authoritarianism in leadership -- see: The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill for a similar story).

I have seen some more troubling stuff in the "alternative Christian" movement where there are young Christians part of Crowder's Mug Club or followers of The Daily Wire and TPUSA. But those people tend not to be the people who "hate libs", just misguided believers in thinking they are consuming "safe media" when in reality it's often targeted polemic.

Interesting. I live in an area where there a lot of refugees from Africa and South America and I think they've actually contributed positively to our community. Many are working towards learning English and trying to get jobs. People in our church and community are helping them by providing bikes and these English lessons. I wonder if you or your church could help be involved in those areas to bridge the gap and provide a means for those displaced people to work and/or alleviate some of their needs.

Gotcha. I mean, I agree with the premise for sure. I am not so sure anymore about what "fruits" you can see unless you know the person or frequently interact over time, but I totally get that when you do see it you can know pretty well.

Normally: disassociation/ostracization of anyone that disagrees and verbal abuse. I'd say the worst that I've seen is that families have stopped speaking to each other and mental illness arising from frequent abuse. No one that I know has gone so far as to be physical or violent. Oh yeah, and schisms in churches.

Thanks for the response.

I am reading a lot of generalizations in your comment here. Do you live in a big city or an area affected by immigration? Just asking if this is from personal experience.

I can't tell if you're agreeing with what I've said, adding to it, or disagreeing.

wait for it, this is just the proposed intersection. When they implement it they'll make sure to cut that part for budgetary reasons.

can you elaborate?

I have several members of my family who would identify as "Christians" and hate liberals. AMA.

Brainwashing via polarizing content, tribalism, and poor spiritual growth / leadership is a trifecta of awful.

I don't like what you're insinuating with this Walmart brand comparison. It's like saying Matt Walsh looks like something desirable and this copycat looks like a cheaply branded version of it. They both just look like they watched "Home Improvement" and decided Al was the pinnacle of masculinity.

He was perfect for his role in Ballers. I realize that's not a movie but it is very good.