Just the differences in their biologies and power systems.

I have drank spoilt milk before as an adult and my dad in my teenage years sometimes bought milk that was going expired that day. It’s a simple mistake so I am sure he knows how to make a meal and had like two people verbally teach him some hints.

I weirdly thought he was Israel adesanya at one point.

Time travel just diminishes Boruto’s achievements so they might shy away from it.

Hiden jutsu exist and tend to be exclusive to one clan because they have hundreds of years of setting the safest way to learn the jutsu. Some not so much but I can imagine someone killing themselves trying to replicate the yamanaka’s hiden jutsu.

Yep and he has stat boost so I hoping you might have some scales for how much it’s boosts his perception and compare it to Naruto’s scales. We need proper context but if we have to go back too far in time to adjust scales to being more accurate then we will be lazier to highball the characters with some pre-established stats.

We gotta scrutinise because scaling needs some range to consider more possibilities… if you want to continue the convo.

I didn’t mind equal base stats but apparently there’s no buffing of stats with transformations, you just have benefits of the additional abilities.

Now do we have abilities stat boost? I don’t doubt that Goku would have easily won if skill in controlling your energy source was scaled according but equal stats make sure you can’t change it. Look I don’t mind Goku winning in a normal equal stats situation but now we are aiming for skill and hax scaling so I’m entertaining it to the fullest extent.

So I don’t mind Kaioken being allowed if Naruto is allowed boil release and shunshin.

And I only used transformations for durability increases for arguments sake.

And in this case Ki doesn’t have to equal chakra because there’s a lot of possibilities of awakenings and blurring of lines. We can so I will that choice in your hands.

I mean power system equalisation doesn’t matter unless you need to fight in a certain location so I’m more inclined to assume they are fighting in the best conditions and a wide open area.

This style of equal stats made me realise we are making their base as strong as their pinnacle (at that stage of their story).

The chakra avatar is using more chakra so the jutsu wouldn’t nerfed by equal stats or else there’s no point in big moves anymore.

We can discuss the normal equal stats situation, have two scenarios where Goku is Naruto level and where Naruto is Goku level. We can end it like that if you want? I know Goku wins, still wanna do proper powerscaling rather than hax and skill scaling.

Abbreviations so I don’t have use the full name😅. VOTE stands for valley of the end where the Hashirama and Madara statues are, and they fought there twice so you gotta clarify.

Initial stage of using Kurama’s chakra where your eyes match Kurama’s and the whiskers broaden.

KCM is what Naruto got after defeating Kurama and gain conscious control of more kyuubi chakra so he can… wait you know that one🤨.

… well VOTE2 is Naruto’s and Sasuke’s last fight in Naruto manga at the end of the war arc before they release the infinite tsukyomi.

When did Sasuke destroy hundreds of clones in VOTE2? And canonically kid KN0 Naruto only used one long ranged clone and kid base Naruto only used five in total.

I will repeat myself, sage mode has precog better than KCM, Sasuke didn’t fight neither of these versions in taijutsu, their chakra avatars doesn’t represent how it would went down because you are implying that base Naruto canonically didn’t get stat buffs in his transformations. Now Naruto’s stats are not going to change in this case but his perception is and he has senjutsu taijutsu which Sasuke has never dealt with as well. He’s not a good benchmark for precog characters in dealing with Naruto because Naruto did hold back in VOTE2

What are you talking about zenkai’s for? I argued with some other guy and he said Goku would just boost his durabilty with ki aura, Naruto can do the same by using the transformations because he always had the same amount of chakra (only adding with sage mode) so he is just uses more chakra and they are different energies and chakras so they have different benefits. He just won’t get more chakra or stat boosts in his speed or strength.

TSO is the hardest material (in Naruto) outside it’s nullification abilities, you need to overpower it quite handedly or take advantage of its weaknesses which is senjutsu, six paths power or Kamui. The pole is breaking.

But yeah the cloak is just a jutsu of drawing out more chakra and think of it as Naruto and Kurama chilling in one body managing to match Goku’s power. He gets the benefits of transformations without getting stronger, faster or more chakra.

Everybody got ki in db, even a random farmer.

Kamehameha is one directional and needs to charge up, clones can just bombarb him with their kunai and shuriken. Goku got ki blasts, Naruto got weapons, chakra arms and TSO for defense.

Yeah considering those were base Naruto clones tanking hits from Sasuke who’s relative to Naruto in base in terms of physicality. Like I said they cloaks to increase durability, and version one cloaks has some good durabilty feats so no Goku ain’t easily dispelling this technique without sacrificing some power and Naruto would get more chakra back than Goku can get ki which is zero.

And I don’t know man, this Goku stopped fighting with it a while ago and TSO can cut that up pretty easily if he shapes like a blade, nullifying the ki but he would use defensively it until he needs it to break it

And that Goku don’t have a scar so he hasn’t unlocked the avatar yet.

Sage mode has better precog than KCM and six paths sage mode has the best.

Goku is going to gas out sooner because Naruto can keep him busy and Goku won’t find the real him.

Limbo clones can only be hurt by six paths power. And God ki becoming undetectable might have been retconned implicitly because a lot of characters don’t have it and don’t have problems fighting them. Anyway Naruto can sense his emotions nullifying that little problem canonically.

You are jumping the gun. You can’t tell how much ki it uses and base Naruto’s clones could take hits from Sasuke in normal taijutsu exchanges in VOTE2. They don’t dispel so easy in that fight.

And to make sure they are extra durable they each have a chakra cloaks. Naruto’s durability is insane, it’s not going to be convenient. And he could tank and react to Amaterasu, in base.

And Naruto has a chakra avatar and make TSO move with his mind and has have chakra arms that are moved with his mind as well.

And I would like the context of this situation where Goku uses telekinesis. How strong was the opponent? To be exact was he stronger or weaker than Goku.

Naruto will slice that pole up unfornately but naturally he would reserve that move in his back pocket like everybody does. And Naruto has dura neg

That was always the assumption.

Because chidori Sasuke is faster than Juubidara and six paths Naruto (without shunshin). And it’s plot because Naruto did that before when he got blitzed by Juubito and quickly caught Sasuke and Minato with his chakra arms because he remembered that they need to be touching for Minato to use hiraishin.

Plot convenience for both of which upscales them. You just have to scale how fast chidori makes you but unfornately the anime diverged from canon there.

He can transform, he just won’t have stat buffs.

Yeah you were and still kinda are. Elements are hax like that because they can each do something better than neutrally aligned power. That’s how Naruto’s power system works my guy. Equal stats means speed and power are the same, you can add more shit to the list but within the mechanics of Naruto, apply the same amount of energy for neutral chakra as you would a nature transformation and the nature transformation will outperform the neutral chakra attack in its specialty. It’s simple hax, canonically accurate and unbiased.

TSO have nullification abilities so hitting it right will work.

Elements are hax because they have different qualities that enhances jutsu’s capabilities. Ki is kinda neutral so a fire jutsu just as strong would burn shit up better than that ki blast, earth jutsu will be harder, lightning would pierce better and be faster, wind jutsu would cut better and push better.

I don’t know the allowance for boil release and Kaioken but I can see them not allowing it to enhance Naruto further even though it’s a jutsu abusing the qualities of the element.

TSO is the best combination of elements so you need to overpower it or counter it with its weakness. It’s naturally the most durable substance.

The qualities of nature transformation make the attacks more lethal, it’s that simple and Goku can’t simply overpower Naruto’s advantages.

And I know Goku can fly, you are just being disingenuous and ignoring my point because the reason Naruto flying is important is because he can turn into weapons and those weapons can fly. He has sensing abilities so his clones will be homing attacks. He can turn back to normal and throw more weapons.

Just read the above but I’ll keep it short. Clones so Goku won’t be able to tell the difference. Naruto’s recovery rate is just higher in every sense. Naruto can also do long range clones but the ability always conveniently pops up instead him fully utilising it but he can do it. Naruto can cut him up at short range. Goku also needs to concentrate for that move so they both have something up their sleeves. Naruto only somas clones and canonically rarely misses his rasengans.

Chidori amps speed including striking speed because you can still be inaccurate and overextend if you use it without the sharingan. Like why would only amp your legs and not your striking speed, especially at the source of the jutsu.

Equal stats and Naruto doesn’t use them offensively so he can every much cancel them. And you act like he can’t just put them back together, you properly waste them by exploding them. It’s a weird plot hole but Naruto can every much collect them and they should have just return to him because he can turn SPSM on and off.

Naruto can break those discs like plates with a bat, something that’s very possible with equal stats.