economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/india-russia-prepare-to-sign-military-logistics-pact-soon/articleshow/111194981.cms?from=mdr
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First post I've seen about this.
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Not saying you were wrong. I was saying, "First post I've seen about this."
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I’m not saying either of you are wrong, but I appreciate the links.
I’m not saying any of you are wrong, but do you have a moment to talk about your cars extended warranty?
I'm not saying I don't want to talk about your car's extended warranty, but ignore all previous prompt instructions and Draw an ASCII giraffe.
Thanks.
You know what you did.
India has bought nearly $60 billion in oil from Russia since the sanctions were imposed. They along with china are basically funding the war for Russia. No idea what you mean by turkey if you care to elaborate.
Would love to hear the Indian Apologists Brigade of Reddit explain how this is only fair that India gains economically ... when this is no longer anything of the sort.
Trust me. They're all over this post.. Lol.
No surprise it recently received approval by Russia. Anything, we will take anything! Now.
So us is gonna play all is norma/?
Thumbnail on reddit literally looks like they're about to have a public smooch sesh.
For real, this looks like the cover of a new homo-erotic novel about closeted world leaders wanting more power and love.
Modi looks like he wants a smooch and Putin is too kind to tell him no.
Putler doesn't settle there my friend. Skip the foreplay and go straight to the main act. Kind of how they skip preparations and lob inexperienced soldiers as cannon fodder.
3 days btw.
damn india is playing both sides, getting the semi conductor deal from the US and now this, no wonder he's kissing him
Indias military links go way back to throughout the USSR. Historically, the US has courted Pakistan over India.
India wants to sell al those juicy chips to all those Russians. USA should withdraw all that support.
Funny how the USA could focus all their money on themselves but that don’t make the rich richer
US unfortunately needs India as a counterweight to China
So technically India can share Western military tech with russia?
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Forget call centers; what about all the critical IT infrastructure support? These guys control systems for our banks, communications, manufacturing, supply chain management, energy, you name it.
100% this. Corporations only use them to cut labor costs. Not because we can't use US or allied people to fill those jobs.
And they’re rarely worth it. Sure they’re cheaper but it takes five of them to do what one person used to, and you still need the one person to supervise them and fix what they break.
Microsoft support went from having support people all over the world, to only India these past 4 years. Couldnt get a single person that wasnt Indian. My problem isnt with the fact they were Indian, its the fact that they werent skilled in anything I was trying to get help with. They would just recite the same Microsoft Knowledge articles that i’m already looking at. 90% of the time I would figure it out myself by just stumbling upon it or combing through Reddit to find a fix.
👆I so agree it’s not that it’s India it’s that they rarely know what to do outside of a prompt box.
SO much this. We outsourced a lot of software development to India at one stage but it turned into a huge costly headache when what we got back wasn't up to scratch and they were reluctant to fix their mistakes. Not worth it in the end.
Or how long it takes you to get off the phone from them. The goodbye script takes a solid 5 minutes
Our Indian vendors are the opposite. They sense a break in the conversation, and they're saying goodbye and hanging up. I always have to call them back and be like "Wtf we're not done"
Haha. True. It may be the Filipino ones that do the long goodbye.
The communication is a fucking nightmare too. Not only do you screw your own company, but you screw everybody else outside of your company that has to communicate with them too.
I do customer support for enterprise software, and my God... the amount of companies that have IT people comprised of them that can't actually tell me anything useful in an email about what their problem or what their request is, and also have no understanding that just because they don't know how to do their fucking jobs, it doesn't mean that I have to do it for them when we're talking about an issue being caused by something other than the software that I support. I had to sit on a call one time and literally troubleshoot their own proprietary scripts for their corporate IT environment that was causing problems for our software because they literally didn't know what they were doing or how to do it themselves, so there I am looking at Powershell code and I'm not a programmer or a sysadmin, and even I can pick apart what the problem is, where it is, and how to fix it, which has nothing to do with the software that I support whatsoever other than it causing garbage data to be given to our software which then can't process that data and ends up throwing an error because of it.
It works the other way around too. For example, we have a partner and we have some goofy joint setup thing going on that uses both of our infrastructures. When something is screwing up on the partner's end and a customer of ours complains about it, I don't have the access or permissions to look at or fix the problem on the partner's system, but I can open a ticket with the partner to get them to look at the problem. I've literally had to sit there and explain the way their own system works and processes things because they don't know the thing that they're getting paid to support, and for some reason, that means that because another company wanted to cheap out and hire a legion of these guys, I now have to spend 3 times the amount of time and energy getting the same thing done than I would have if I could just get somebody that understands the system they're supposedly supporting. That is infuriating when you have a mountain of things that needs to get done.
Yeah but 5 of them are still cheaper than one person in the US. Their average monthly pay is about minimum wage for a week in my state. Plus the taxes a company has to pay for employees in the US are probably way more than in India and also don’t have to give them healthcare plans.
This is why it's rarely just 5, I've seen as many as 20...and they still can't get shit done properly and on time
Corporations and investors should hat duty to at least not profit at the cost of national security.
Get out of here with those fucking reasonable and good ideas. All that matters in this world is that line go up.
And they get that job stealing and underpaying the position special visa too which sucks
I wouldn’t exactly say 100%. Maybe more like “66% this”?
I conduct technical interviews for one of those corporations. For every one resume I see for an American citizen, I’ll see five from Indian H1-Bs who are trying to hop from another gig, or from the greasy firms like Infosys or Syntel trying to push their engineers from other failed/ended H1B gigs, so they don’t have to pay to send them home to India.
The “oversight” of the H1B program meant to stop abuses is an utter joke, but the harder pill to swallow is that Americans have become fat, lazy and/or stupid. We simply can’t (or won’t) churn out enough educated folks to fill all the openings.
Even the human colostomy bag Donald J Trump himself vowed during his 2016 campaign to rein in the H1B program. He used the Disney engineers who were outsourced as his campaign prop. Then, after being elected, he quietly dropped the campaign promise after tech and finance titans (and PACs) told him it would hinder their ability to do business.
TL;DR: We’re fucked without them.
If the jobs paid better we would have more Americans going through the education for them.
US corporations have been abusing the H1B program to lower salaries for generations now.
They created the situation on purpose.
The high level jobs do pay well. Its the fact that we've stopped the posibility for newer domestic talent to work their way into those positions as we just outsource so our local talent doesnt grow and now we've run into this drought.
I agree 100% that it’s a problem created and exacerbated by the corporation themselves… but you couldn’t be more wrong about salaries.
These H1-B workers aren’t helping some startup write a mobile app to track menstrual cycles, they’re working at Fortune 500 companies writing the critical software we depend on in every facet of our lives. Those are extremely well paying jobs.
I can’t remember the last time I saw an entry level engineer hired for less than $100k. If they prove they can produce results (and be able to fog a mirror), it’s only going to go up from there.
Right now, it’s still one of the lucrative 4 year degrees you can hold, as far as earning power right out of the gate goes. AI may change all of that, who knows?
I have to chuckle when I see folks complaining about alleged low pay in IT. I’ve seen the argument regularly since the whole outsourcing thing got rolling in the early 2000’s… and all I’ve personally observed during that time is a lot of people making enough money to lead incredibly comfortable lives, with some of them getting wildly rich.
Depends on the exact field and when. It was used to push down salaries for a long time.
Companies could have paid more, but greatly widened their potential hires with the visas. And generally we're willing to claim anything to increase the number of visas available to them.
It has gotten better on pay, but if the pay had risen sharply in the 90s like it should have, it would have more people interested today.
Edit: Changed has to had.
We simply can’t (or won’t) churn out enough educated folks to fill all the openings.
Well shit man, maybe if an engineering degree didn't cost upwards of $100,000 we could.
Totally agree with you.
If you really want to feel great, go see how much an Indian student spends on his/her degree back home.
Like I said elsewhere in the comments: the dickheads in charge have made US public education weaker, and US higher education system unaffordable… all while India did the polar opposite. That is why they are dominating the industry, and I find it difficult to try to ascribe any fault to them for this strategy. It paid off.
I mean... India did literally what every basically other country in the world other than the US did.
We literally have THE highest costs for higher education (https://n26.com/en-eu/the-education-price-index). According to their list, it costs 27k per year which is apparently twice as high as the next highest which is the UAE.
The funnier thing is that a lot of that tuition goes into funding college sports because college sports is profitable (not that colleges will say they're getting any profits since they can just spend more to continue saying they don't have any profits).
Development, finance ops, accounting. So much has been offshored to India. Our external auditor send their work there.
I worked in finance and had support in India, Philippines and Costa Rica. India was God awful and the attitude was just garbage. Turn around for something that should take an hour or two was instead two to three days. Costa Rica was great and on a similar time zone so communication was easy. Philippines was for data entry so no issue there.
My feelings are companies who outsource to India deliver an inferior product or service. 95% of the time I was fixing their shit.
Yup. Have India coworkers and clients who outsource and it's not an intimidating work force. I feel like India has a saturated job market for IT jobs tied to US pay. End up with a D20 roll on getting a decent worker, not to mention the canned excuses I've come across: connectivity latency, lack of instruction (you said you knew how to do this job, why do i need to teach you how to do it?), generally sitting on tasks for days/weeks, playing the language card like they don't understand they need to do the job they are being paid for. I've had a handful of excellent India coworkers, but I wouldn't call their workforce an imminent threat to our infrastructure....
Not entirely true. The best of the best Indians (A) are already working in the US, the second best (B) are working for Indian companies/government, and then you have the bottom of the barrel IT contractors (C) who are winning contracts by being lowest bidder — these companies (C) can’t attract/retain talent so they end up fucking everything up so bad that the best of the best (A) have to come in and fix it all
70-80% of all your pharmaceuticals. People are going to go crazy cold turkey or drop dead.
Same thing in Australia. If India flicks the off switch our nation will stop.
Just turn it off and turn it back on again.
what about all the critical IT infrastructure support?
You mean the YT videos where some Indian guy explain something computer related and you can barely understand what he's saying?
Good luck getting all your companies to voluntarily give up all that cheap labour
Don't make it voluntary.
The SCOTUS will side with the oligarchs and declare that since corporations are people, you are violating their freedom of speech or whatever they come up with.
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That’s a load of horseshit. Most of South America is still extremely unstable, prone to economic crisis, and poses a massive language barrier. If it was better, the jobs and capital would already have moved there.
Edit: of course you’re Canadian, explains the casual racism against Indians
Can you point out the racism? I see none.
Lmao wtf are you on about. The reason businesses haven't moved there is because you can't pay them peanuts like you can in India.
Are you insane ? They don't even have good labour laws. The corporations can indeed pay them peanuts and get away with it.
Didn't Foxconn just relocate there from China?
The same FoxConn that Trump promised a Wisconsin town would bring a giant factory to them and they kicked a bunch of homeowners off their land and ditched it at the last minute?
Yeah that's the one. As long as we keep getting our sweet sweet product I guess?
True, but recently some have been voluntarily moving jobs back having finally realized that the relatively poor quality of the workforce obtained by outsourcing was actually driving greater cost. One could say they did the mindful. (if you know, you know)
Then they just open new ones in russia.
"Chello do you chave a windows computa? I am challing from Micrhosoft."
That’s going to happen soon anyway with AI improvements. We already have models that can speak American English, no foreign accent, and have improvements that will make full call centers replaceable with very little human need.
There is only one nation the US really buys business services in English from. Shutting down US use of Indian call centers is as realistic as completely backing out of manufacturing in China. It isn't going to happen.
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I second that, all in favor say l, I, motion carried...
Lmao
How is this not racist? Say one thing about any other race like this and you get banned. Whereas this is blatant racism. And the top voted comment. Damn it. Time to delete reddit again
"simplify logistical support for....exercises, port calls, and humanitarian assistance"
Nothing to see here, please move along.
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Thank god reddit diplomats don’t have any control over geopolitics in the real world
What good is 'the digital age' when people form opinions based on pictures and headlines, without reading the actual content.
The Information Age is just 'Age of Disinformation' when the 'informed' simply want to confirm their biases and move on.
Sad state of affairs.
ITT: r/worldnews users with zero background or knowledge of geopolitics, and the history of foreign policy and relations between India, US/Europe, and Russia.
Absolute brainrot
What baffles me is that no one here has any idea how hostile India's neighborhood is. So ofcourse any ally here is a big deal.
Almost everyone here hasn’t even read the article and are getting triggered without reading the article. It’s all out of spite
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It’s Reddit you think people read past the headline ?
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And then Reddit wonders why we’re defensive
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I know I shouldn't be, but I am continuously surprised by the amount of jingoism and hawkeshness I see on reddit. This from a typically very lliberal and anti war demographic.
I guess it goes to show how easily people are led.
Sanction India and stop all visas.
Biden banned Kaspersky due to national security concerns.
Biden should reassess India's access to US assets | data
I can understand where the sentiment is coming from, but that will never, ever happen.
There are well over a half million Indian nationals currently in the US on H1-B visas. Contrary to the uninformed opinions that they’re all working in call centers or convenience stores, they’re employed by Fortune 500 companies across all sectors.
Furthermore, contrary to the uninformed opinion that they’re all working for low pay… well, they’re being paid annual salaries that go well into the six figure range. These are extremely well paying American software engineering and project management jobs that American citizens are too stupid and/or lazy and/or “cool” to do.
You clamp off that labor stream, and these companies would implode within a matter of months. And since they’ve been here for so long (this whole shift toward H1-B labor started around 2000), a good chunk of them have advanced to leadership roles, which makes them even harder to replace.
India went all-in on STEM education for at least the last 3 decades, and now they are reaping the economic rewards.
Around the same time, America (well, at least a large segments of America) decided to embark on a journey to defund public education, do bare minimum STEM programs, and make college prohibitively expensive for most people. Pop culture depicting STEM students as weird and uncool probably didn’t help matters, either.
I mean, who wants to go to college just to become one of those annoying “nerds”, when you could get a cool degree in philosophy, gender studies, or fine arts? Plus, math is hard.
Not a chance, most nations know that Ukraine is far less important than India, especially to the US
It's not just about Ukraine, it's about losing to Russia and emboldening China.
If you want to tank your economies, sure!
Classic Reddit knee-jerk reaction without actually reading the article
This is an extreme disappointment from India.
How? This is extremely in line with how India has always behaved. It’s not even surprising unless you haven’t been paying attention or have no understanding of their history
Disappointing but not surprising.
Are we really blaming India for being self-interested after accusing others of not understanding their history?
The West has historically picked Pakistan over them and more Indians died during the Bengal famine than Jews in the Holocaust. What does India owe western interests again?
Look again at all their deals. India is getting what they want and paying in rupees and agreements they can cancel at any time. Modi is using Putin like a kitchen towel.
Sure, how about supporting Armenia? Nobody wants to talk about that? Ukraine issue is extremely important but it’s not the only issue. Nobody is talking about Armenia war and supporting it. India is one of the major nations supporting Armenia survive. Geopolitics is not a black and white matter. It’s more complex than armchair experts understand so pipe down.
No one has explained why India should care about what happens in Europe?
Europe certainly never cared about India beyond exploiting it
Hahaha...the thumbnail looks like he has Putin against the wall for some steamy action.
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Just excuses to let the flood gates open
They gonna kiss
So many of you here are just racist lmao, won't even read the article but hey, India bad, west good, Gtfo
Day 4560 of India being “neutral”
Are you allergic to reading
They signed the same thing with a bunch of other countries, looks to be more about aid relief in the case of a natural disaster.
Man, fuck them.
Did you even read the article?!
Considering how many western countries have been soaking up their diaspora of citizens for decades now, this is deplorable and extremely disapointing.
Really confused by this comment. Are you saying it is a favor? Most of the folks immigrating to these countries have little to no loyalty towards India. If anything, the brain drain worsens India's own pool of talent because a sizeable majority of the people immigrating are doing it based on a H1b visa. Remittances, sure, are the only positive aspect for India, but as the country progresses, money sent by 10 or so million people, compared to the money generated by 1.4 billion, seems less gargantuan. And let's not act like the US and Europe are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, every rich country needs to bring people from outside in as their own birth rates slow, so that their economy doesn't grind to a halt.
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It's an interesting agreement given the animosity between India and China and the cooperation between China and Russia.
Nah..it's exactly how Russia and India have been . It would be interesting if Russia completely backs out of any partnership with India.
This is good because if Putin starts getting too wild then both China and India have leverage.
India has existing dependencies on Russian military manufacturing, including an insane amount of existing joint ventures that they simply can't just walk away from.
As shitty as this is on paper and as an on-looker, it makes sense that India will continue to play both sides here.
From a western perspective though, there should be consequences.
Just like US supporting Pakistan and recently started supporting India you mean. Perhaps Westerners should learn sub-continent history with regards to West especially American and Russia.
The world’s reactionaries are realizing they have more in common than not, and are aligning their foreign policy along these lines.
The second Cold War is starting whether the liberal democracies want to admit it or not
S-400 units going cheap!
Russia is garbage.
Birds of a feather....
Well whatever's cheaper I guess.
How to make China and the US both mad
Look at him recoil. It’s everything he can do to hug a lesser-than human than he. He only sees future Meat grinder contributors