Incest monster Fritzl kept own daughter as sex slave- wins jail move bid - but has no hope of freedom
This is why men having daughters is no evidence whatsoever of them suddenly being able to empathize with women. Not to mention they shouldn't need to have blood related daughters specifically to empathize with women in the first place.
This is also why there should be qualifications who's allowed to parent children (not have them). We shouldn't just be handing the most vurnerable people in society to random people to do whatever they want with them. If you need a backround check to be a foster parent or nanny, the same should be true for parents.
Nah because then you’ve created the power for someone to do eugenics / genocide
Yeah I know but removing kids from parents is also a vector of genocide (see what happened in Australia)
Just have restrictions on it like native (and other minority) children have to always be with families that share their race/ethnicity.
Look what the right wing party is repealing in New Zealand right now
I don't follow New Zealand's politics. What's it called?
Well why not just leave native children out of it? Native peoples can use their own leadership to decide that happens to native children and other governments can stick to the people they rightfully have jurisdiction over. No guidelines at all for anyone allows for severe abuse that could easily be prevented.
Seems like the problem is infringing opon native sovereignty/right to self determination. Not necessarily restricting parents.
You must not know what cases are brought to the US Supreme Court. Fucking bad take.
This sub is about reaction to women refusing.
This sub is about reaction to women refusing.
He should NEVER be allowed out. What he put his own daughter and grandchildren through was beyond horrific and despicably cruel, physically, mentally and emotionally.
he should be begging for d£ath after severe punishment.
Christ I had no idea he was still alive. Oddly, enough I thought of him at random last week. This news of him still being alive is such a bummer.
that was my first thought, too! I heard about him from a true crime podcast years ago and it's a case that's really stuck with me, such a vile man
This guy is a real monster. Convinced his wife that their daughter was a runaway who was dropping off babies on their doorstep.
Meanwhile he was raping his daughter in an underground bunker and the children that she had there … a couple died and were buried in there… had never seen sunlight.
Even if those babies had all lived, he should be considered for the first non-murder related death sentence.
Worse than buried. One of the babies died a couple days after birth and he threw its body into the fire to incinerate it.
Yeah this guy is completely irredeemable. I couldn’t write a fiction novel that could turn him into a sympathetic character.
I knew he was raping his daughter, but please don't tell me he did that to his grand daughter as well, did he?
Um.. yes 🤢
“Three others were brought up in the horrific basement with their mother as the remaining trio were allowed to venture out of the hellhole and were watched over by Fritzl and his unaware wife.”
Let me guess the “trio” were boys…
Actually, the trio that were allowed upstairs were 2 girls and 1 boy (who had a twin that died within three days of birth.) The three that were imprisoned in the basement were 2 boys and 1 girl. It was reported they were all abused, though I couldn’t find whether that meant SA’d or physically abused. Regardless, they all suffered enormous trauma at the hands of a monster.
I don't know if the children were SA'd but according to Elizabeth he made her re-enact porn videos in front of her children to humiliate her. ☹️
this is horrific. i didn’t know this case could get any worse.
Are we "collective WE" saying the wife was truly unaware? I mean, if you think of monsters like fred west's wife, she knew, and for 14 years was part of his heinous acts, fritzl's wife must have known something was way, way off. Was he that clever? I can't believe it myself.
Honestly I come from an abusive home myself (definitely not this story bad) but based off of the abuse he did to his daughter there is no way in hell he didn’t treat his wife differently. So yes I agree she was aware and turned a blind eye but she probably didn’t know better and was abused at a young age herself.
I cannot confirm. Just know that he hid some kids and continued to impregnate his daughter
One baby boy died & was incinerated.
Isn't that what the movie Room was based on?
Yes, except this real life story is so much more messed up than that movie. This was a father who locked up his own daughter in the basement for twenty-four years!
And didn't he have like 5 kids with her instead of just 1?
She gave birth to seven kids, actually. All in the basement by herself with no medical care and no help. One of them needed medical care after he was born but Fritzl wouldn't have it so the baby died and he threw the body into the incinerator. So in the end she had six surviving children, most with health issues because of how they were born and raised. The whole story is just horrible.
Fuck man. I choose the bear.
Yeah, the author was inspired by it. So terrible
I don’t know if she was inspired by one of these stories in particular, because there are dozens that are horribly similar
It was - the author learned about Elisabeth and her children, specifically one little boy who was around 5 years old and had never been outside the basement. The book is from the perspective of a little boy who's been held with his mother in a similar bunker and has never been outside. His only contact with the rest of the world is through television and what his mother is able to teach him.
Girl in the Basement is the movie based on this case. The biggest difference is that in the movie his “upstairs family” sees him as a great father and loving husband. In reality, he also terrorized them.
If the prison system there is anything like it is in the US, he may regret moving to general population. Changing his name doesn’t guarantee that he won’t be recognized or found out by other inmates what he did. Inmates tend to frown upon sex offenders, especially child sex offenders. Life expectancy is much shorter for them.
I mean, dude is already 89. He's already in the hole here.
Where I come from,there's a saying that "Satan has a long life".....
I don't think he requested this himself. I can't find that wording in any other article except this one and this is The Sun, so... He was held in an institution for mentally disturbed prisoners because he was considered a danger to himself and others. They have now moved him because his age and advancing dementia makes him less dangerous.
This is the most bone-chilling case of SA and abuse I have ever heard of. Reading it just gives me nightmares and I can't even begin to imagine the horrific trauma the victim went through.
Literally one of the worst people who are still alive today. Truly the scum of the human race. Well done to his loser evil mother who raised him to be even more evil than her
Why did you automatically attack his mother? "Reflecting on his childhood, Fritzl initially described his mother as "the best woman in the world" and "as strict as it was necessary." Later, he expressed a negative opinion of his mother and claimed that "she used to beat me, hit me until I was lying in a pool of blood on the floor. It left me feeling totally humiliated and weak. My mother was a servant and she used to work hard all her life, I never had a kiss from her, I was never cuddled although I wanted it – I wanted her to be good to me." He also claimed that she called him "a Satan, a criminal, a no-good," and that he "had a horrible fear of her." In 1959, after Fritzl had married and bought his house, his mother moved in with them. Over time, their roles reversed, and his mother came to fear him. Eventually, he also admitted he had later locked his mother in the attic and bricked up her window after telling neighbors that she had died, and kept her locked up until her death in 1980. It is unknown how long Fritzl kept his mother locked up in his attic, but newspapers have speculated that it may have been up to twenty years."
Note his evolving description of his mother could be an attempt to get sympathy. Then to emotionally detach while torturing her. I wouldn't be surprised if the only true part is what he claims she called him. There's no way this evil person is a reliable source. If anything influenced him, it was probably the political environment of his early childhood. He threatened his victims with the possibility of gassing them.
Glad someone else pointed this out. He’s an extremely unreliable source that constantly shifts his motives. This is a man who said, “I was born to rape, and I held myself back for a relatively long time. I could have behaved a lot worse than locking up my daughter,” and claimed that he imprisoned her to express his innate evil in a contained environment. That’s probably the closest he’s ever gotten to being honest.
I’m also just so tired of pieces of shit like this escaping full moral accountability because of the ‘hurt people hurt people’ narrative. Plenty of people are abused that do not perpetuate that violence onto others.
Cool Fritz. That’s actually a good example of why you shouldn’t treat people the way you did. Now back into a windowless box with you.
I'm very anti-death penalty, but child predators make it REALLY hard to stand by that. I do still stand by it but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't mind him dying.
Curious what the argument against his dying would be? Do we expect him to rehabilitate? Show remorse? Contribute to not just society, but even the prison he stays at? Does he need that time to think about what he’s done? Would his daughter want him alive?
Idk. At the very least castrate him completely. I’m against the death penalty as anything other than ridding the world of evil like him. I don’t align with the idea that anyone committing murder should be put to death. But this guy for sure. No hesitation.
The death penalty is overly expensive, takes up excessive court time, offers little to no actual closure to family of victims according to numerous studies on the subject, is often applied incorrectly and leads to innocent deaths, etc.
We can say "but we KNOW for this guy" but the problem is that for many of the innocent people put to death, we knew then, too. What legal distinction can we make here that would prevent innocent deaths? The "innocent until proven guilty" standard clearly isn't enough.
Yeah, that is always important. In this case all the evidence points to him being responsible and he’s not eligible for rehabilitation nor remorse.
My only excuse for not killing him is that we don’t know what, if any, justice in the afterlife is like.
His imprisonment is the only poetic justice he can have. Even though he has more amenities than he gave his own daughter…
I will be waiting and reading and hoping to hear he died of old age in a windowless cell.
Yeah sucks to say it, but I'd rather 100 child predators walk free than a single innocent person being wrongfully executed.
Imagine saying that out loud and not seeing anything wrong with that.
Your reading comprehension is lacking.
I will rephrase it; the exact same thing but in words that you can understand:
"I believe in the prospect of innocent until proven guilty, beyond reasonable doubt".
I'd rather we let off (most likely) guilty people if we cannot prove their guilt, over jailing and especially executing people willy-nilly just because they might be guilty.
We already do it this way and still innocent people are being locked up sometimes. The thing about capital punishment is that you cannot undo it, unlike a life-sentence in prison.
But I suppose you'd rather we loosen up the requirements for executing criminals, resulting in more innocent people taking the hit; atleast we'll get a few more criminals along the way right?
I agree with you on every single point you've made. Up to and including "but let this guy fry".
Wouldn’t death penalty be less expensive than paying for them to be in jail ?
You'd think so, but legally convicts have the right to appeal. The appeals process is extremely expensive. You need to pay judges, security guards, bailiffs, lawyers, etc. It usually ends up being more expensive than keeping them alive.
We can remove these processes to make it cheaper, but that just makes it more likely that an innocent person is killed.
I’m against the death penalty because the only way to prevent false executions is by not having any executions at all, and also because giving the government (or anyone really) a license to kill people when they - humans with human biases, prejudices, and just flaws - are also the ones who get to decide what is worth death and who that applies to is generally A Bad Idea. State-sanctioned murder will never lead you anywhere good, even if it starts from intentions to protect people, and we have historical evidence to back that up. Whether you believe that certain people may deserve to die is irrelevant except for your own moral introspection. Because if you put the power to kill people in the hands of a governing body, you cannot put your faith in the idea that they will only use that power on who you believe are “the right people” - or that, once you’ve given them that power, you will be able to do anything if you ever believe that they have overstepped.
Do I feel that people like this might deserve to die, if only to protect others? Maybe. And people like this DO make it hard to hold to an anti-death penalty stance, because you’re fighting against a normal and understandable emotional response to something horrific. But I’m not arrogant enough to believe that I’m imbued with something that means I deserve to be given the power to decide who lives and who dies, and I don’t think anyone else should be given that power either (and anyone who believes that they are the special person who should be given that power, should absolutely not be given it).
John Oliver put it best in several ways. He compared it to fucking your mom in that it's just wrong no matter what, and also it's unconstitutional. The 8th (?) amendment says "no cruel or unusual punishment", not "no cruel or unusual punishment unless they like, really deserve it". Also many people much smarter than I am have pointed out other issues below, the most convincing imo being the issue with who the government is and isn't allowed to kill.
To me it's solely about giving the state power to execute people. If it weren't for that I'd volunteer to be in the firing line and pull the trigger myself just to know it was done properly
The death penalty can actually have severely negative effects in cases of child sexual abuse. A big percentage of child rapists are close relatives, right? So imagine a POS father telling their kid that they can't tell anybody because surely they don't want daddy to get killed. That kid now has one extra big reason not to come forward.
Have you maybe heard Gary Plauché? His 11 year old son was abducted by his karate instructor Jeffrey Doucet and raped. The instructor had been raping and molesting him for the past year. Gary Plauché then shot him in public after he was already caught, and I think the world pretty much applauded him. But the son later came out in an interview that the main reason he never said anything about the abuse, was because he knew his father would do something like that and he didn't want to be at fault for his father becoming a murderer and someone else getting murdered. It's horrific.
Also, unrelated, but just for an extra layer of fucked upness, the father's actions and trial also plastered the son's identity all over the news. He had previously been kept anonymous because he was a minor.
In some cases, it would appear to be an almost mandatory requirement. To invoke the death penalty. In my nearly 70 years, there are quite a few people who have committed really heinous crimes, and we still pay for their upkeep in the prison system. Knowing they will never get free nor as most other inmates will have forgotten their crimes or never heard of them, will they get prison justice.
Paying for them to rot in prison for the rest of their natural lifespan is actually cheaper than killing them, in case you weren’t aware
That's all down to personal preference and beliefs. As I'm sure you're aware also.
How the hell is cost down to preference and belief…?
If someone had killed my two kid's instead of SIDS taking them , I would want them to die, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people would believe the same and given the choice it would be their preference.
Sorry for your loss, but that has nothing to do with my comment lol
I agree. At some point who gives a shit if they need to "suffer" through what's left of their life. Just get them off the planet.
Probably because not everyone is guilty of the crime they are accised of if i had to take a guess
Nah no death penalty anyone who thinks it's ok is kind of a barbarian in my mind. i can argue for life in prison though ( this should be reserved for the most hanis acts like worse than a murder [seial murder or multiple would count as more henis or what this dude did])
Heinous. Just fyi.
Generally speaking it's advised against having the death penalty for child sexual abuse because children are actually less likely to come forward when there is a danger that it will kill their father or uncle or whoever the abuser is.
Do you know of Gary Plauché? His 11 year old son was abducted by his karate instructor Jeffrey Doucet and raped. The instructor had been raping and molesting him for the past year. Gary Plauché then shot him and I think the world pretty much applauded him. But the son later came out in an interview that the main reason he never said anything about the abuse, was because he knew his father would do something like that and he didn't want to be at fault for his father becoming a murderer and someone else getting murdered. The father's actions also plastered the son's identity all over the news. He had previously been kept anonymous because he was a minor.
So this epitome of pure evil gets to move for his comfort or whatever, unlike his daughter and grandchildren. Why should he have more rights to comfort than he allowed them? This man should never see the outside again. Let him waste away, he’s so far gone to evil that he is beyond rehabilitation or remorse.
For what it's worth, he isn't getting moved for his comfort. I don't think he himself even requested this. He was kept in a institution for mentally disturbed prisoners until now, but because of his age and his progressing dementia, the court has decided that he poses no further danger to himself and others and can therefore be moved to a regular prison.
I'm not in favor of capital punishment...typically
Oh God, I read this quite some time back. Men are, by and large, literally, clinically insane. And need to be handled accordingly. Which will never happen as long as men primarily hold the roles of power. :/
I have more than once recommended that male babies should be imprisoned automatically first and released into the world only if they have proved themselves to be harmless, but under strict monitoring and chemical castration, unless they’re paraplegic.
For some reason I’m consistently downvoted for my opinion.
You mean you want to do to all male babies exactly the same cruel and horrible thing this guy has done to all of his sons/grandsons that we condemn him for? And you are getting downvoted for it? No, I can't believe it. /s
Make sure to have a medical team ready lest you cut yourself on that edge.
I don’t care how ill or frail he is, that monster doesn’t deserve to ever be free again.
What the fuck this is madness and unhinged
Didn't know this monster was still alive. That's unfortunate
Does anyone know how Elizabeth and her children are doing? Last I heard, she was dating a bodyguard and has kicked her Mom out of the safe house she was staying in.
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