Maybe we underestimate the voters when it came to the debate/Biden's low performance

2024 Election

I think for many of us, we agree with David that Biden is the one we will vote for, assuming he isn't replaced etc. Nothing could really change my mind.

But what horrified me about the debate is thinking about what undecided voters would feel about the debate.

That said, maybe we shouldn't be too worried. I think that many people who watched, who are smart and not MAGA brained, might actually come out disliking Trump more.

Some people have been saying that the debate didn't encourage anyone into supporting Trump if they didn't before. I think that's true.

The substance of what Biden said, more often than not, was true. Yes, he fumbled HARD on abortion, when that has been one of the biggest points for Democrats. He didn't fight about "killing a baby out of the womb," BUT anyone with a brain could sense that it doesn't pass "the smell test."

I think the knee jerk reaction from Biden supporters makes sense. We were hoping that Biden would not stumble or mumble at all. And his debate performance was awful. But I don't think we should underestimate voters. It's not the GG we initially thought could be the case after watching the debate.

Obviously, polls are polls are polls. Biden and Trump will have viral moments of them being stupid. But I don't think we should underestimate undecided voters who watched the debate. We can literally all agree that Biden lost the debate, without still knowing that Trump got the net negative overall

in thedavidpakmanshowby FriendlyDrummers

84%

AutoModerator

COMMENTING GUIDELINES: Please take the time to familiarize yourself with The David Pakman Show subreddit rules and basic reddiquette prior to participating. At all times we ask that users conduct themselves in a civil and respectful manner - any ad hominem or personal attacks are subject to moderation.

Please use the report function or use modmail to bring examples of misconduct to the attention of the moderation team.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

TopDeckHero420

I think people would rather take the risk of Biden keeling over than Trump being president. One would leave us without an elected president for a short time, the other would leave us without an elected president forever.

Mysterious_Eye6989

And technically if Kamala Harris had to step in, she would still be an 'elected president' in the sense that she'd been elected as vice president - and when vice presidents are elected there's an understanding they might have to become president.

Technically, America already lived without an 'elected' president for just over two years when Gerald Ford was president in the 1970s. He stepped up after Nixon resigned over Watergate, but had never even been elected vice president. He was appointed VP after Nixon's previous elected VP Spiro Agnew resigned due to corruption. So literally nobody elected Ford either president OR vice president...yet still the country managed to hold together!

Of course back in those days, politicians actually had the sense to resign from high office when their misdeeds were exposed. Trump has changed all that.

FriendlyDrummers

Yes, hopefully that is the takeaway for most people. Especially with all the recent BS from the SCOTUS. But the problem is that most people around me don't know what SCOTUS is. They don't even know what it means

Soggy_Sherbet_3246

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I can assure you that most people have never known what SCOTUS is or have ever based their votes around it.

FriendlyDrummers

One thing I've noticed when talking to uninformed people is that they do know that he's a convicted felon. It's simple things like that that can help at least. Project 2025 has also been making rounds

Soggy_Sherbet_3246

Project 2025 is just they same bullshit far-right conservatives have been jerking themselves over for 50 yrs.

tirch

Biden couldn't deal with the three lies per answer. He's old AF. Newsom would have shredded Trump. Biden is the last stand though against the end of self representational democracy. We have what we have and we have to kick Trump and his Anti-American handlers and mob to the curb again and look towards 2028. If we beat him he faces his trials. If we Keep the Senate and take back the House, we can fix SCOTUS and pass legislation to stop the slide into authoritarianism. All is not lost.

This is America's moment. We were divided in 2016 and that introduced the shit show. We have one last chance to actually MAGA and send those who want us to be an apartheid, Nazionalist Christian oligarchy a message that that is not the USA. Vote. Get out the Vote. We've beaten them before. 1865, 1945, 2020. We can do this.

WunWegWunDarWun_

-4

There are plenty of real threats from Trump without the hyperbole of “he’s going to somehow end democracy”

VisibleDetective9255

Trump appointees still litter the Federal Government even in high ranking positions.... Christopher Wray, Louis DeJoy, Jerome Powell... and those are just the ones with a high profile.

WunWegWunDarWun_

And are they ending democracy?

VisibleDetective9255

Ah, the pro-crime party wants a convicted felon and hid band of convicted felons to be free to plunder our tax money!

WunWegWunDarWun_

Okay, but is that ending democracy?

Unbridled-Apathy

That's what burns for me. I always had the idea that the American people were, maybe not booksmart, but lifesmart. They'd vote their own interests. I thought folks respected honesty, fair play, and helping neighbors who need it.

Everything I see now, every new event, I wonder how the mofo stupid lemmings are going to get jerked around by their influencers, podcasters, and the billionare-owned media.

Maybe there's still some innate wisdom in the American public. Well, guys, it's the last dance with democracy.

jericho_buckaroo

I have never been as disappointed with other Americans as I have in the last 8 years.

Especially when COVID hit and instead of "we're all in this together" it was "FU, every man for himself". Too many Americans are stupid, soft and entitled and asshole DJT gave them license to be their absolute worst selves.

Best-Chapter5260

+1 Until the pandemic, I had a very "We may disagree with the means but we agree on the ends" view of the U.S. Even though I didn't enjoy the Dubya years, I never wanted to oust people who voted for him. Between Trump supporters and how people acted during COVID, any of that good will I had is gone. I share a geopolitical border with a certain amount of people because I have to, but I don't hold any fellow countryman affinity for them anymore.

Russell_Sprouts_

That’s exactly it, DJT does serve their best interest because he allows bigoted assholes to be themselves without shame.

They can blame all their issues on someone else, play the victim, and continue to be assholes. It makes them feel better about themselves and their lives and that’s all they really care about

Ancient-Row-2144

I lived through them voting in GWB twice. I know when they elected Obama it wasn’t because they cared about his policies… it was about personality and vibes. And Trump got a lot of votes both times.

The American voter on average is incredibly stupid.

Avantasian538

I don't think many non-Trump supporters are going to like Trump after this debate. My fear is some soft Biden supporters are now gonna say "fuck it I'm staying home."

skatecloud1

I agree with this too. Biden needed to push more people over the edge to vote for him and he clearly failed at that IMO

WunWegWunDarWun_

They may think they don’t have a choice. Biden really was that bad. Some people may simply see voting for Biden as not an option since he is clearly way too old to lead the worlds most powerful nation

theseustheminotaur

I was horrified about undecided voters but I think even undecideds could see Trump lying about obvious stuff and not answering questions. I think that reads very poorly for people who are unsure or on the fence

VisibleDetective9255

Based on fundraising totals... Trump lost the debate. Biden hauled in three times more than Trump on Thursday night. But, yeah, the pundits are full of crap.

Canteaman

I'm a conservative and I think it's funny that you guys all thought Biden was somehow not Dementia Joe lol.

But fear not for I will also be voting for Biden, and, I agree with this post, I'd vote for Biden's rotting corpse before I voted for Trump.

FriendlyDrummers

Maybe Joe has different clones and each one dies in a week, replaced by the newly incubated clone that dies in a week after. He'd still have my vote too

TestOk8411

We just have to hope those undecided voters are knowledgeable of all his lies in the debate. That he evaded every question and answered with lies.

PillboxBollocks

With CNN pulling the levers of the debate, I think Biden did just fine. Trump said, straight up, at the start that it was him who gave corps like CNN huge tax breaks, like he wanted to be certain that they knew who their friend was.

In all fairness, Biden looks no worse for wear, but Trump had a huge racist slip-of-the-tongue and CNN did absolutely nothing to help their own image.

Mrknowitall666

What I don't understand is the contrast between the rally he held 24 hours later and the debate

FriendlyDrummers

I really do think he picked it up 15 minutes into the debate at least a little bit. It's possible it's as simple as being bad at debates, or at least fumbled a really bad debate performance. At some points it genuinely looked like he was panicking. For instance, a lot of people think David had a bad debate with Megyn Kelly, though it was a team up against him

Mrknowitall666

And his pacing of his replies was like all off in the debate. So weird

FreebieandBean90

It's entirely possible the debate helps Biden--The point of the debate was to re-focus voters who haven't heard much from Trump (They exist!) to remind them of how much they dislike Trump. That's why Biden asked for it so incredibly early. The problem now is that Biden is no longer viewed as competent. And if he was this bad after a week of preparation, it suggests he might have other episodes where he performs just as badly--because now he has to do 10x as many events and interviews, including with unfavorable journalists, just to show he's still all there and the debate was a fluke. But it probably wasn't. He prepared all week to give an "F" performance?

Treesbentwithsnow

White House aides are saying now that they have seen Biden act the way he did at the debate before at night time. They said his best time is from 10 am to 4 pm. Since the debate was at 9:00 pm, it isn’t his best hours. That is why he bounced back in Friday’s rally like a lion cub—it was during his good hours. I think there is something called sundowning that some seniors have where they just lose it at night. This is why he will not perform well at the second debate. Another night time event.

Avantasian538

I think the debate just confirmed what everyone thinks about both candidates. Biden acted senile, Trump acted sociopathic. Both are consistent with what most people think already.

VisibleDetective9255

Trump's lies were so absurd that his fundraising totals after that awful debate were 1/3 as much as Biden's. Biden took in $27M in one night... Trump took in $8M in the same night... I don't know what kind of idiot gave Trump a donation... but... Trump lost that debate even though President Biden didn't win it.

molybdenum75

He came off as senile? How so? I have a senile grandparent and they can't form coherent sentences.

BigDigger324

Yeah that tracks….i mean you watched him right? No shot I’m giving my vote to Trump but let’s be real about what we all saw….🫠

The_Insequent_Harrow

-1

And Biden could? That was insanely bad.

molybdenum75

😂 insanely bad?? Shit man - I could understand everything fine. Maybe you have dementia???

The_Insequent_Harrow

When asked about the Trump tax cuts:

We’d be able to right wipe out his debt. We’d be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do – child care, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our health care system, making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the Covid. Excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with – look, if – we finally beat Medicare.

Or how about when asked about abortion?

Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he – he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by a – by – by an immigrant coming in, and they talk about that. But here’s the deal, there’s a lot of young women who are being raped by their – by their in-laws, by their – by their spouses, brothers and sisters, by – just – it’s just – it’s just ridiculous. And they can do nothing about it. And they tried to arrest them when they cross state lines.

Seriously? That seems normal to you?

molybdenum75

I don't know. I've never debated a lying fascist before on national TV

The_Insequent_Harrow

-2

Mhmmmmm cope harder.

molybdenum75

Trump sounds articulate* because he doesnt have to remember anything. He just lies and those are formulaic. Remember what he said about the environment? "Someone just came up to me before I got on stage and said my environmental numbers were the best of all time". Like what? What fucking numbers lol

But then Biden would talk and he's trying to recite data points from the past 20 years and can't remember everything he's supposed to be saying. My suspicion (again cant read article) was that they practiced all of these memorized talking points to the point where when he got asked a question he would just recite them as fast as he could to sound like he wasn't old. He couldnt remember everything and flubbed his lines, and left no room for himself to listen to Trump and respond to his very predictable and idiotic responses.

What should have happened is they picked a couple general points per topic - no need to go in depth - and keep answers short and simple. Pick some of Trump's most predictable lines and attack him on how ridiculous his bullshit is. Then don't fill Biden's head with any more and have some catchphrases that are going to make good sound bites. More than anything he needed to slow down and talk like a person not a 10 year old trying to recite something he memorized the night before, quickly before they forget what they memorized

I mean there's only so much you can polish a turd but you have to work with what you've got but the DNC just continues to suck at their jobs and are on a path to losing twice to the most unpopular presidential candidate of all time

*EDIT maybe not articulate but I can understand the individual words he was saying and he said them confidently, even though I think he is also in cognitive decline not to mention full of shit

The_Insequent_Harrow

Whatabout Whatabout whatabout.

IDGAF about Trump. I would never vote for that sack of hot garbage. Are you suggesting that the DNC is incapable of fielding a candidate that isn’t senile?

Continue thread...

VisibleDetective9255

Take out the place holders first. Because most people say , uh, and other placeholders while their brains catch up to their mouths... the second example is actually true. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2024/03/dna-tests-incest/677791/

I do think President Biden must have taken cough medicine before the debate because when he was campaigning the next day, he was coughing, but he sounded sharp.

The_Insequent_Harrow

It’s true? What they were able to do with COVID was to beat Medicare??? Please do elaborate more dementia whisperer.

I couldn’t even begin to tell you what the F Biden was trying to get at in that second one. It’s total gibberish. It was supposed to be something about abortion. You get that was the prompt right? Explain how what Biden did answered it.

VisibleDetective9255

Convicted felon and compulsive liar Trump should allow an honest man to be the GOP NOMINEE.

The_Insequent_Harrow

Agreed, but this is classic deflection. We’re talking about Biden, deflecting to the GOP’s flaws is weak.

Continue thread...

Western-Art-9117

I really think the cold he had affected him a lot. It's much harder to shake things like that off at 81.

skatecloud1

I think doing it so early maybe on some level was a test for Biden if he could actually pull it off. But he totally failed.

Coming off as a senile old man is not a good look. I hope they are at least considering the possibility of a new candidate before the convention.

Mysterious_Eye6989

I think Biden would have been better off if he hadn't spent a week preparing. My guess is that week was filled with a legion of jackass self-appointed "experts" giving him a million pieces of confusing and contradictory "advice" about how he should handle the debate, when he would have just been better off following his own instincts.

Hopefully those people are all fired now.

FreebieandBean90

You are describing something that can occur with staffers but is not relevant here. Biden's behavior and performance was so far from competent that any specific preparation clearly was out the window. He sat there looking slack jawed, had no idea where to look for the cameras, couldn't put sentences together, etc.

Resident-Scallion949

The vast majority of people who watched were already decided... only 1/3 of the 2020 voters actually watched (50MM vs 150MM+).

AdhesivenessisWeird

Which is worse considering that Biden didn't look as bad in the full debate compared to the viral clips. The debate itself doesn't matter, the clips do.

Zanaxz

I don't think so sadly. Most people lack a solid basis for understanding civis and economics. Because of that, a lot comes down to the optics. It's rarely the smartest or best intentioned people that win. Impressions matter a great deal.

Full_Metal_Paladin

I'm voting for what we got for years in, and against what was the for years before

And another thing: you say this, but you would absolutely judge someone who voted for Trump in 2020 if they gave the same lame cop-out. You'd probably call them a fascist, etc. but your reasoning is no better. You have no moral high ground to stand on, you just picked a different team.

Now you blocked me because you know I'm right. Just keep that cognitive dissonance train rolling.

detrif

People tend to forget how razor close the last election was. We are all biased because we want Biden over Trump, but Biden only had to convince a few thousand people to not vote for him in the next election (which he did). There’s time to recover, but I’m confident if the election was tomorrow, my money is on Trump winning.

axisleft

Due to the political map and the Electoral College, the vast majority of our votes statistically don’t matter in the presidential race. This WHOLE thing will be decided by about 50,000 votes in very specific swing state areas. What those people from those places think are what REALLY matters. (It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t all vote. There are substantial ramifications to down ballot races.) Elections are largely predictable for the most part. It’s the places where electoral votes are decided by the margins that really decide the outcome. It will entirely depend on who can get their voters to the polls and counted in the places that are relevant.

In my mind, given that two well known candidates are running, I can’t imagine that anyone is honestly and truly undecided in this election. There was a time when a candidate had to perform perfectly. A misplaced gaff could have ended their candidacy. We are no longer living in those times.

traanquil

The worst part of the debate was when it became clear that they’re both brain dead geriatrics with unquestioning loyalty to Israel and its horrific genocide in Gaza

Full_Metal_Paladin

I can't believe you're voting for that braindead dementia patient. You actually don't even know who you're really voting for. Who's managing him? Is it Jill? Someone/a board of folks calling the shots?

FriendlyDrummers

I'm voting for what we got four years in, and voting against what was the four years before

Full_Metal_Paladin

You think Biden is in charge?

FriendlyDrummers

I'm voting for what we got four years in, and voting against what was the four years before

Full_Metal_Paladin

-1

You can't answer the question, because you know Biden is unfit and shenanigans are in play to complete the charade. You're being willfully ignorant and experiencing cognitive dissonance. The fact is, Biden's not in charge, and we don't know who is. That means for all your blabbering about trump and the rule of law (I'm assuming you do this since most leftists do), you excuse your side doing extra-legal things (like having a shadow president) because you're a hypocrite.

FriendlyDrummers

It seems you don't understand what I said. Let me repeat it again

I'm voting for what we got four years in, and voting against what was the four years before

It's pretty simple. Hopefully repetition helps

KickooRider

-2

You should be very worried

FriendlyDrummers

Oh I am

jagdedge123

-14

Nobody is voting for a man who may unfortunately be dead before inaugeration. And he is our president, and terrible that can happen, but he is dangerous in his current state, and will not be reelected.

As far as David, he owes his followers an apology He's becoming the next Alex Jones.

ignorememe

Many of us would rather vote for a corpse than let the treasonous rapist convicted felon anywhere near the levers of power again.

jagdedge123

That may indeed be your choice, and you will lose. That is up to the UnDemocratic Party, and you.

ignorememe

UnDemocratic Party

Not sure what you’re talking about. The current candidate won the majority of votes in the 2020 primary, beating out all of his competition, and went on to win in the General election with both the largest ever voter turnout in U.S. history, as well as the electoral college.

jagdedge123

He was so effective, he only won by the skin of his teeth of 40k votes in the key states, and only because they were effective in keeping the viable third parties off the ballot.

If that did not happen, that would have been 2016 all over again, and Trump would now be at his end, rather than another beginning.

He's an unpopular bonehead, that lost IA, NH, NV and CA, and was set lose the the primary, by a landslide.

The UnDemocratic Party, would rather have Trump than Sanders, and made what very nearly became, another very costly decision.

They again have that same chance, of making a worse popular decision, as Dr Stein and others WILL be on the ballot in the keys states, as compared to last time, though this time, with a Democrat who is knocking on heavens door, and cannot speak a cognitive sentence.

HOPE, that all the bullshit the UnDemocratic Party has been selling you about Trump is true (and it is) , at least accordingst to them, and replace this paralyzed incumbent , Now.

ignorememe

…would rather have Trump than Sanders

Ah there it is.

You think the country is ready to elect the “socialist” who couldn’t even get the Democrats to vote for him. Twice. The same Senator who isn’t a registered Democrat and who himself has endorsed Biden and currently supports Biden and worked with Biden to build out the Build Back Better Act platform in 2020.

The concern now being that Biden is “too old” so we should’ve nominated the guy who is even older out of fear that we might end up with the other candidates who is only 3 years younger?

13 missing replies