I was just telling to a Swedish friend (I’m English) about how common it is in England for a parent and child not to speak and it seems very rare in Sweden, or maybe I just don’t know enough Swedes? But I’ve not heard it happen.
I’m not saying families are necessarily super happy here but they seem to mostly muddle along if there are problems or thr problems are not unsolvable and are just normal family stuff
In Sweden, in general, there's more of an expectation that children be independent from their parents at a younger age. So, completely anecdotally of course, there's less of the whole "I'm going LC/NC!", Swedes are better at maintaining boundaries, for better and sometimes for worse.
ETA: Also, less religion and fewer weddings (many are just "cohabitating", not actually married) creates fewer social events that can create those kinds of squabbles where a parent is overarching, demanding, etc.
I'm swedish and have no contact with family. Dad kicked me and my younger brothers out because he argued with our mom when I was 15. He didn't tell us the real reason at the time. They were divorced and he had remarried a woman who really wished I didn't exist. She's like the evil stepmoms in Disney movies. Mom died a few years later and dad gave no support. Moms new husband constantly complained about our father not wanting us. Today my dad believes he acted rationally and is not at fault. He thinks we don't talk to him because our mom brainwashed us. I barely know my brothers.
I wish I could have a parent. The way things are in sweden it is extremely hard to get a good start in life with no support. But I just can't forgive him. It's been 17 years and it still hurts every time I'm reminded of parents, which is every day.
My dad is neither a drunk, junkie or mentally ill. He is rich and has lived the easiest life imaginable.
Some people just have bad luck with parents. I'm sure it happens in every country. I've met many in similar situations in sweden.
Yah I feel bad for you not having any support- even in a rich country like Sweden it makes life harder- lots of ppl get financial help when buying their first flag for example here.
I don’t speak to my mother anymore, she’s the devil incarnate, but I do my father and he’s not perfect but he can be kind so I’m grateful for that
Financial support when buying a flag? Elaborate.
Probably meant “flat”
Thank you 🙄
lol I thought you actually meant flag, as a metaphor for “house”.. because most properties (least in halland from what I’ve seen), have flag poles on their property.
And help =loans
It's probably for the cunning use of flags.
Didn't you get 100 000 SEK for buying your first flag? Everyone I know bought flags. Poors lmao smh.
mentally ill
No diagnose, but to behave like that towards your kids is not normal. Probably has a cluster B pd.
Your dad seems like a very bad person!. Proberly very selfish, ignorant and spoiled. When people have money they tend to become somewhat nasty and often gets it their way because of that money. Try to be happy that you don't have to be forced to be around a nasty person because of family ties. You are lucky to be free of those ties, you don't have to seek his acceptance of what you choose to do in your life. You are free to go any path you feel for and free to shape your life in the way you want it. I'm sad you don't have your mother around, but we are a lot out here in the same boat. Hopefully you can build up your own family and show all the love you have to give, to them. You are in a great position to make new standards of how you want a family to be, free of old ways and inherited dysfunctions. Forget, forgive and be the better person here, your dad needs no more focus from you, only your own happiness does🙏 Have a great life😀
I don't think money does that. Money enhances you though. If you were a shitty person on the inside from the start, it will show way more when you are rich.
Well I disagree here, born into a wealthy family. Money corrupts and gives you unfortunately snobbish attitudes towards people who arent as fortunate.
Maybe, but that could also be the fact that your parents were rich shitholes and also raised you to be one (if you mean yourself) although you don't seem like one xD I also know some people with money and they are the sweetest ever.
Money gives you the opportunity to be shitty to people that if you were poor you would have to rely on more and so couldn't treat them like crap. Some poor people are just as shitty as rich people deep down but they maintain relationships and act more properly just for selfish reasons and not at all because they care about you or the people around you.
Some people who really like to feel superior just can't do it because they just don't have anything to feel superior about. If you are rich you can indulge in that superiority all the time so it becomes very noticeable. I have met and know some less fortunate people that wish they could feel superior to others and just don't have the opportunity to do it most of the time. But as soon as they do get the chance they will act like an asshole on it. Lots of sore losers/bad winners have this attitude to everything. They are fine to interact with normally in most situations as these opportunities aren't everywhere but you know that if they won the lottery or luckily inherited a lot of money from an unknown or far distant relative they would be impossible to deal with instantly.
Lots of political activists online are this exact type of people. They fail in real life and are only looking for a shot to feel superior to others. They might just look like they care about others and that they are emphatic people but that is just a facade. Give them a chance to act out on it and you get the people who riot in the street and destroy other peoples property and if they get money they use it for their own purposes. BLM leadership in the US is the perfect example. Shitty people that just hijacked political issues and as soon as they could act like the people they claimed to despise they behaved even worse.
You don't get nasty becouse owning money, some do but most get more giving towards family and friends.
It definitely happens. I am not speaking to my dad, for example. (His other two kids aren't either.)
me neither, so yeah it happens :)
In Sweden you can disinherit your kids, they will get their share when you die, so that cant been thrown in peoples faces, the only thing you can do is use up all your money before you die.
You can transfer your assets to someone else. A relative said he was doing that, transferring his assets to his wife so they wouldn't inherit anything. Previous wife and mother of his children had died long ago. But I'm quite certain he changed his mind cause as he was getting closer to dying his relationship with his children improved.
Well, that's a pretty common way to try to screw over your children, but it is also pretty easy to dispute and can turn into a long and difficult legal investigation.
That has to be done years or decades before there is even a hint of the parent dying, or it will just be overruled as obvious fuckery.
You can transfer assets.. in some cases but the Förstärkt laglottsskydd means that any .. inheritors (?) can appeal the gift giving in certain circumstanses.
So its not as easy to get around as it may sound at first.
If he is married his kids cant get anything until she dies anyways.
That's only true if the wife is also the children's mother, which it doesn't seem like she was.
Wrong you can give away 50%, rest goes to kids etc. But if the person put the money in a KF and name a beneficial all money in that accounts goes to that person. So the reason can be 0 to the kids if you like
lol
In England you can disinherit children sadly
50% must be decided between kids. If you have 2 one could effectively get 75%
All of my four closest friends in Sweden have contact with only 1 of their parents. The other parent left when they were young. I think it’s more common in England but it’s not that rare here
One of the reasons for pappaledighet was that men who spend more time with their children early on was less likely to disappear from the childs life after a divorce.
Yah ideally a man will not disappear out of love and a sense of duty really
It happens in sweden too of course. But I think that we are not as dramatic as the anglos. There is no advantage in being so super upset with each other that you do not speak.
The advantage is that you don't need to get upset every single time you have a gathering.
Just don't get upset. Make a fist in your pocket and say "jaa så kan man ju tycka". And then you make a post on sweddit about it asking what you should do.
Swedes don’t typically reject their children for being gay.
We'd all be orphans if they did.
god DAMN thats a good roast
There is no advantage in being so super upset with each other that you do not speak.
Often estrangement is just the tip of the iceberg, after decades of a child trying to mend the relationship to a parent who refuses to stop wounding them.
What prompts the estrangement is the realisation that trying to help their parent is an act of self harm, and they need to accept that if the parent wanted to change then they would have at least tried.
My dad is jealous and spiteful. He will have his way and either you support him or move out of the way. He owes you no explanation, just shut up and do as you're told.
There is no way to have a relationship with such a person... he will throw anyone under a bus if brings him any benefit. He loves to brag, can spend thousands on a restaurant visit (pics immediately uploaded to fb/instagram) but won't give you 200kr unless he benefits from it somehow.
For me it's not about being angry... I'm beyond that. This is about keeping myself alive. I've blocked him everywhere and removed myself from online lists with adress info. I will also change my name... all I want is peace and quiet, if I never have drama in my life again I'll consider it a win 🙌
That's what the commentor wrote I believe, that instead of becoming estranged the adult child could stop trying to change the parent and work instead on themselves, on being able to accept ("så kan ma tycka", without needing to agree) and not be triggered by what the parent might sometimes say. This reminds me of every movie and TV show ever, ha. "Ma, c'mon, get off my case! Anyway let's get going, the wedding starts in an hour..." Anyway yes, statistics seem to show less estrangement in Sweden than in the Anglo-American countries, and it matches my experiences of both places, being American living in Sweden.
But sometimes it's not about being upset; for myself there's just not enough reason to keep up the contact.
Could you elaborate a bit? The way you put it sounds kinda sociopathic.
I don't really see the relevancy here to go into my personal details, but sure, if you really want to know about a random strangers' relations to their parents...
My father was an abusive alcoholic that I cut contact with when I was 12, and my mother is more interested in and gives more attention to my younger brothers. (They're all adults too btw) Never had a good relation with her and I've been trying to get her to understand that I would like to, but she doesn't seem to get it. I've been trying since I was around 20; I'm +40 now. I stopped trying a few years ago.
I'm sorry if my question seemed insulting, I genuinely thought your wording sounded strange. I'm afraid I do this quite a lot, without meaning to be rude or snooping. I kinda never seem to learn other people don't work like me in this regard.
And I'm really sorry you've had it so rough. Must have been truly awful, I couldn't even begin to understand.
My family is not perfect, there was a time I did not talk to my mother, we do a bit now, there are topics I still cannot bring up, though it would do both of us good to resolve some stuff. But at least I know she loves me. I'm lucky in that.
I truly hope all goes well in your life. I understand you don't care a shaved copper for a strangers sympathy, but my hear goes out for you.
No worries, I know tone and intention is hard to convey through text :-) Thanks.
Good for you! Mental high five!
That is a pretty naive view. Often it is a result of abusive behavior and yes of course it exists here in Sweden as well.
It seems there are quite a few of my coworkers over the years that have no or a very hostile contact with their parents or siblings. But most have a decent contact, albeit they like to whine about them.
For me this is strange. I have an extremely tight-knit family. Most of my children lives next door from me, and we share a common garden and my grandkids and children and their spouses use my kitchen and living room as a communal hangout area for the extended family.
That sounds adorable! Your family set up is very cosy!
Oh, it's very common. People just don't mention it. I'm estranged myself, my aunt was estranged from my paternal grandmother, a woman I used to work with was estranged from her kids - it's just avoided as a topic of conversation cause it's so uncomfortable but when you open up about it, you'll often hear that the person you're talking to knows someone in the same situation.
It’s not very common as far as I know. No one in my family nor gf or any of my exes’. All of my coworkers are still in touch with their parents.
As far as you know. People tend to be tight lipped about their familial dysfunction at work and around people that seemingly come from happy families.
I dare guess that there is a socioeconomic variable in all this.
Some people just have really shitty parents. I’ve worked in ”all fancy” sectors my whole life (law and finance) and the stuff you hear can be insane. E.g. Swedish well educated rich as f*** parents that just leave Sweden for good ”to travel” and (more or less) break contact when all kids are in the University.
Interesting question, when thinking about this i realize I have friends and family members who regularly communicate and other who don't. A total guesstimate would be 50/50 among everyone I know.
I'm sure others have different experiences.
I’m not talking about not regularly communicating with family, I’m talking about cutting them out entirely. I haven’t noticed that to be common in Sweden like in the UK (and English speaking world in general- Australia, Canada, USA)
Ah alright.
Then I would modify my answer to 10% of the people I know have no communication (parent and child), either because of both sides lacking interest or adults just not getting along.
It's not that uncommon sadly. We just don't really talk about it.
I don't have any contact with my father. My wife doesn't have any contact with neither parents or siblings.
When a relation causes nothing but pain it's better to just end it.
It happens, but people don’t talk about it because of the stigma. You are supposed to have a big family that celebrates Midsummer in perfect bliss.
Hmm interesting yah there’s no real stigma in England I think around it
Here lies the difference I think.
The hype around having a big family for festivities is huge in Sweden. I come from smallish family (3 kids, two parents) with not so many cousins (4 cousins) and I felt like a sucker growing up because there was ”not enough” family on Christmas and stuff.
You’re only going to get anecdotes and conjecture here
Of course! But it’s the internet - we do t need to be serious and scientific about everything
Not sure how common it is, but I do not talk to any of my family members or relatives anymore(except my uncle).
My real father have not been there in my life efter I was 3 years old and made contact again like 7 years ago but I removed him from my life because it seems there is no regret what so ever about all these missing years.
My mother and stepfather beat me and treated me like a stranger living at home, its like I was hated for no good reason. My siblings all got it better when I ran away from homr, so they have more or less accepted the past or dont remember because of trauma, but they have never been on my side and I just cut connection with them because they all feel plastic. All my relatives believed the lies my mother and stepfather told about me so thats that.
I think this is more common than people realize, but people dont like to talk openly about it.
Yeah, it’s rare. When it happens it’s almost always due to serious abuse and neglect. You’re seen as a bad person if you cut contact and you get judged very harshly. I wish that wasn’t the case sometimes it’s necessary to cut contact for safety reasons.
I havent spoken to my dad in about 5 years now, he's an arrogant alcoholic, not a great combo.
I don't know how common it is but it happens. My mom doesn't have any contact with my grandma because my grandma is a Jehovas Witness who disowned my mom when my mom left the cult. My mom and my aunts aren't talking either because one is still Jehovah's and the other one because of inheritance issues and childhood trauma.
A friend of mine was abandoned by his father as a baby. A former friend abandoned his daughter.
My wife actually doesn't speak with her father. This stems from him picking his new wife, who was actively being mean and discriminating against my wife, then 10-15 years old, treating her own children better. So I'd say he got what he deserved, but then again, I only have her version, so I try not to judge too hard and barely ever meet him anyway.
it's not rare, but it's not something people talk about in the same way like in the US. we dont have a swedish term for it, "estranged".
I know some people who are estranged from parents, siblings or relatives, in my experience due to borderline, drug abuse, abusive childhood or a criminal lifestyle that people dont want to be associated with.
but it's not talked about, it's more like you know someone for a few years, you talk about their new job, and they say that the security interview went well, even though he had brothers who were in and out of jail, but since they were estranged, it was no problem.
Yah after a year or so of knowing someone ppl would mention it in England and definitely in USA 😂
I have friends who've cut off parts of their families. I'd say it's not rare at all.
I barely speak to my parents and have no contact with my sibling. My parents both thought it was more important to care for my sibling rather than me so I was on my own wits most of the time. There was also a lot of mental abuse from my parents and social neglect.
My sibling is the devil reincarnated so when I finally realized that I do not in fact have to have contact with them, I broke it off without any hesitation.
We're talking physical and mental abuse from this person throughout my whole life, towards me and my parents. They have stolen from me on unnumbered occasions and lied about horrendous things. Ony of my parents would make up stories about how they're dying in various diseases to get a reaction from me, when in the next second laugh at me for believing in them. The other parent would openly bully me about whatever they would find amusing that day. My sibling and parents acts like I'm at fault here and they can not understand how I could possibly be disappointed with them.
All and all, happy to be left alone after all, since I now have my own family who I love with all my heart!
Aww happy you made your own family ❤️
I think it's equally common.
If you go south in Europe I'd say you might notice a difference.
But this is all anecdotal of course, no numbers to back it up.
England isnt a dystopean nightmare where parenting is concerned. It happens everywhere people who shouldnt be parents have kids and those kids grow up wanting to escape a bad home.
Especially in western countries, that dont have tradition for fx, taking care of the elderly family members inside their childrens own homes, OR financially caring for parents or grandparents.
In some countries doing so is mandated by law, and in other countries, even in europe, cultural traditions make it a much more taboo thing to cut relations with parents, as it impacts the entire family differently than it does in the northern ones again, due to how families are structured, dependency wise and also traditionally as far as family values and responsibilities go.
I know several danish gen x'ers who are estranged from their ww2 boomer 1 gen parents. But this might also be a scenario thats more prevalent between actual boomer 1s and gen x'ers - more so than in younger generations like Millenials or Zs.
Its actually curious and I wonder if more GenXers than millenials and Zs are estranged from their parents, percentage wise.
In Sweden, as far as I am aware the age when which an adult child moves out, is significantly higher than in Denmark, and perhaps this is an indication of stronger traditional dependency ties than whats seen in financially comparatively similar countries, fx Denmark.
I’m Surprised how many children get help with their first deposit for a flat in Sweden - many ppl I know bought a flat in a nice location at like 25, 26, I heard of in the uk unless your parents are loaded.
Yah many boomers in the uk are selfish but I also have many friends who have great relationships with their parents which is lovely to see.
I knew a woman whose father died when she was 16. Like a month later her mom had sold all the furniture in the house except for her daughter’s stuff and then just left and disappeared out of her kids’ lives for like a decade. My friend had to go live with her older sister until she became an adult. When I knew her she had a relationship with her mom again, after being literally abandoned in an empty house at 16 do mom could go have adventures now that her husband was dead. So yeah, the barrier seems high.
Wow! 😂
That woman is a true stoic! Not sure I’d have been so forgiving
I grew up in Sweden, with both parents being life long drug addicts. Been estranged from them for at least 20 years now, my choice.
Tossed around between 10-20 foster families or so. Dad died around 5 years ago. Not sure anyone went to the funeral.
Always been very open with it to friends and people I meet, if they'd ask. Never ever met anyone else who's been estranged with their parents/children. Almost everyone is chocked when I tell them. Not being able to imagine taking a step away from blood relatives, despite the history.
On the contrary, quite a few people I've met, including ex partners etc, have had seriously toxic relationships with their parents. Passive aggressive, judgmental, panic attack inducing, etc. They would never imagine confronting or stepping away from those family relationships. Very passively just accepting the poor relationships and avoiding conflict.
Imo its powerful to set boundaries. To confront whats not working, to refuse voilence and neglect.
I can imagine in England if people are more outspoken to eachother, and not just passive aggressive, or conflict avoidant, it might also lead to more estrangement. For better or worse.
We are definitely more demanding and less tolerant in England but also more hair trigger- more so in friendships ppl will break up with childhood friends for petty reasons like forgetting their birthday or stuff like that - sometimes you need to pick your battles and not expect perfection
Uhh that sounds gnarly though. Breaking up with friends for forgetting a birthday?
Maybe seeking out drama a bit too much? Haha.
Well an accumulation of little things like that but nothing dramatically awful - yes I know ppl who ended friendships over stuff like that
I’m a big fan of picking your battles
I dont have any contact with my biological father since 20 years.
I think it is much more common than people expect. I have no contact with my entire family.
If you listen to the famous Swedish radioshow "radiopsykologen" (the radio psychologist) at least half of the calls are about people who have gone no contact with their parents or children - usually its parents whos children have gone no-contact and they dont know why and want to get back in touch.
Last time I spoke with my dad was 23 years ago.
The key differences between Anglos and Swedes generally explain this: 1.) We're not individualistic to the same degree. Anyone who lights out for the territories usually comes back eventually and you need the bridge to bear your weight walking home.
2.) We've been cultures of dignity rather than honor for the better part of two centuries - Bonus: take note of the correlation between this and the decline in the murder rate.
3.) Swedes generally aren't intrusive morally or otherwise during their kids adolecenses and adulthood. There are exceptions, but broadly there's not a bunch of savage bullshit regarding sex, sexuality, choice of partner and the like that blight Anglo countries. It's just not a big deal.
4.) Having an intact, fully functional family unit is arguably the defining cornerstone of Swedish middle class life. No acting out, play your cards close.
Of course we have our drunks, bums and abusive dogshit parents but it is nowhere near as common as other places. Plus, women can just up and leave and start a less sucky family with a different partner without everyone losing their minds.
tl;dr unstable families and parental alienation is a symptom of being raised in a values system adjacent to the Victorian one.
Curious what you mean, a culture of dignity rather than honour?
Honor cultures emerge when a centralized state authority is not present or not legitimate and when people are extremely materially vulnerable. Under these conditions, people will take offense very easily, grow quickly fearful, and engage in higher rates of defensive, pre-emptive aggression as well as vigilante justice in order to settle their disputes. In the worst-case scenario, this pre-emptive aggression can develop into bloody feuds enveloping whole families, gangs or lineages. Physical bravery, deferential respect to the powerful and an unwillingness to appear weak and vulnerable consequently become paramount values.
In a dignity culture, people in this more modern form of society may resort to legal authority when disputes and wrongdoings are sufficiently severe, but otherwise they will make efforts to privately resolve disputes in a non-violent manner. In such a society, all citizens are assumed to have a sense of dignity and self-restraint, and everyone is expected to, at least at first, give the benefit of the doubt to a disputant to see if a conflict can be resolved peacefully. However, Campbell and Manning contend that when state authority begins to exert monopolizing control over a population of increasingly diverse, legally “equal” people, a victim culture may emerge.
That was super interesting thank you!
I think in England we also have an honor culture to a small degree
Like a man would not like his sister yo be perceived as “slutty” for example - or a decent man wouldn’t - I like that tho
I just googled and Italy has an honor culture - not as extreme as Saudi Arabia but a gentler version
I think I like both
I'm not sure what exactly counts as estranged. But...
I've more or less lost contact with my father and half-brother. We were never particularly close: my parents separated when I was an infant, and I was raised by my mother. I met my father and brother somewhat regularly when growing up: every birthday and maybe once or twice more each year. But no vacations together, never lived together, etc.
It was obvious that my father didn't particularly care about me. Or maybe he did, but didn't show it well. When we met, he only spoke about himself and never asked about me. Every birthday, I got some kind of "standard" gift for my age - he had no idea what I liked, and never asked what I wished for. He also talked badly about my mother to me, despite her putting a lot of effort into letting me spend time with my father. It was awkward.
The last drop was when I met the two for my birthday in my 20s, and I asked them how my paternal grandmother was. "Oh, she's dead". She had passed away 6 months earlier, they didn't invite me to the funeral. Didn't even bother to tell me. I wasn't considered "close family".
Since they didn't consider me close family, I didn't invite them to my wedding. I had a small wedding, so only close family family and closest friends.
I still have my father as a facebook friend - my brother has removed me after some political disagreement. But my father, who lives most of the time in Asia nowadays, doesn't even tell me when he comes back to Stockholm. I guess that counts as estranged, even though we've never formally said anything about it.
That’s really sad - yah that counts as estranged if you didn’t invite him to your wedding
I don’t get a father being so indifferent
It’s interesting to me how your aren’t considered close family despite being his daughter and her grand daughter - very sad
It happens but I don't think it is that rare. We don't like to hold grudges.
I’ve noticed that!
I'd also like to add that this is a topic that almoat never comes up among Swedes, unless you are close friends and sometimes not even then. There's probably more people around you that are estranged from their parents than you think.
Most Swedish families aren't close enough for rifts serious enough to cause estrangement to arise.
Hehe this is my suspicion- everyone just kind of co exists
No one has like super strong feelings here 😭
Like when I love I LOVE - I would take a bullet for you- I’ve heard my girlfriends say that about their boyfriends not just me- but I’ve never heard a swede say that or something similar- they just kind of co exist with one another
I don’t get it
It's what happens when the welfare state supplants family networks.
It's one of those downsides that you never hear of when people praise "the Swedish model".
It's of course also why the loneliness epidemic is particularly bad in Sweden.
Yah but why does no one have strong feelings!!!!
Why are couples not crazy about each other? Everyone seems so meh! None of my friends w Swedish boyfriends seem particularly in love with them - ugh this is one aspect of Sweden I struggle with
I expect to be very in love with the man I’m with
Deep interpersonal feelings have a lot to do with being mutually vulnerable and mutually dependent. Swedish culture, however, has been shaped both by the feminist idea that being dependent on other people exposes people to abuse and constrains their autonomy and the socialist idea that traditional family values are both behaviorally and ideologically oppressive. So consciously or unconsciously, a lot of Swedes resist being or becoming vulnerable to or dependent on their relatives, friends, or partners—eliminating one factor that promotes deeply emotional relationships.
Off tangent with the theme I know but I like to express myself!!
Even English who are not noted for being romantic- I know lots of very in love couples
It's a puzzling and, at least for me, frustrating fact about Sweden, for sure.
Swedish, now a US citizen. I don't have a close relationship with my parents, they barely tried to contact me over the years and I moved out of my free will at 17. They live in the far north and both are socially awkward.
I'll give you an example, me and my wife came to visit my grandma in her apartment. We sat down for lunch and everyone ate and the second they considered their meal done, they left the table to sit and doomscroll. Me, my wife, sister and her BF were left at the table entertaining my grandma. (Which I don't mind, since she is awesome)
But it does feel sad that parents of my generation can be quite scared to interact with their kids on an emotional level and not just respond to calls when I ask about home DIY.
I don't think it's too uncommon to not talk with your parents, but it certainly varies. My mom doesn't even use the Internet/phones and is separated from my dad, so can only talk to her using snail mail... I also married into a Korean/Brazilian family who is all about sitting and talking while eating 24/7, so it's quite the culture shock for me.
My American friend who married into a Swedish family and lives here was telling me her child is closer to her American grandparents on thr other side of the world than the Swedish grandparents who live 20 mins away.
The Swedish side of the family never visits, rarely calls, the American grandparents send gifts, do FaceTime
There is no drama or arguing just…they meet at Christmas and other socially prescribed times but they just…kinda don’t care
Yep, sounds about right. I know my dad is getting very sentimental about it and feels bad that he can't provide more since he was not raised with much love in his family, so he's not socially equipped to handle these circumstances. So I tend to reach out to him with requests to be able to chat with him. He always tears up a bit when I visit, but never expresses it verbally. So I try not to blame them too much, since they have gone through quite a lot of drama themselves and always tried to shield us from it instead of involving us.
It’s cute you are so fond of your grandmother tho
I think it is rare. Even those who don’t really get along just see each other when they have to. I was speaking about to my “sambo’s (partner I live with) best friend. He hasn’t seen his brother in four years but assumed he was going to see him when his mum turned 65 or 70 or something. They don’t really get along, live in different places etc but just don’t hang out. Don’t fight really since they avoid each other a bit.
You may be getting an unbalanced view from some of the answers here. I think it might actually be less common in Sweden. Swedish social safety nets allow people to be more independent from their parents - between free tuition and student loans, it’s possible for most people to move out and study without involvement or approval from their parents. Swedish cultural norms also put less emphasis on people owing their parents time/money/support when they’re sick. All in all, in Sweden it’s maybe easier to maintain a distant relationship with your parents (like, you keep in contact a few times a year or something) – decreasing the need to go no contact all together.
Yah that’s true - in the uk there is an expectation you are close to family so when you are not that can lead to arguments when obligations aren’t met
I think this commenter probably has the closest guess to the truth. I'm unsure my parents really noticed me not speaking to them for a few years.
And to the people who says it's super uncommon, I've learned not to talk about my parental relationship with people who are close to their parents, as the usually react kinda bad. So I bet some people will never hear people talk about this.
Yah Swedes don’t like those who rock the boat
I just realized how many of my relatives are estranged!
I have three half uncles and one aunt, one paternal grandpa (dead) and one maternal grandpa that we are no longer in contact with.
Reasons vary, but most can be boiled down to drugs or terrible parenting/divorces 50 years ago.
One of the cultural traits of Swedes is a very high level of agreeableness. This is probably, in part a reason for the phenomenon.
Also the fact that childen and parents are, in averge, mor individualistic than in other cultures means that there probably is less area for friction leading to potentially bad conflicts.
English are agreeable on a surface level but underneath that there is a different picture
Example: a colleague held the door open for a girl in the office and she didn’t say thank you so now he would refer to her as the girl who didn’t say thank you when he held the door open 😂
Manners are important and not showing adequate gratitude is very frowned upon
Ppl get resentful of others easily if they feel that person isn’t upholding their end of the bargain
The younger generation also do expect more help with money, childcare etc and boomers are not so keen to do it most of the time.
England isn’t India obviously- we are pretty individualistic also but not to the same extent as Sweden
Manners are important to Englishmen! My family and I were at the airport traveling to London, and an older woman came up to me and my dad and asked us if we wanted sweets (really strange I know). I said "yes", and she got all mad and said "yes what?" I panicked and said "yes please!" I was like 14 at the time, and it really surprised me, in our family it wasn't rude to answer just yes or just no...
I am estranged from my very bad and certifiably insane parents but I'm the only person that I know who is.
Am “semi-estranged” from my mother, if that’s a thing. Doesn’t seem to be that common, especially with mum, from my experience to how people react when I tell them.
Man I don't know. My dad and I don't really speak. Like we see each other on major holidays, talk shit and have some snaps together. Then nothing in between. But that's about it.
I have zero contact with almost all of my "family".
Haven't spoken to my bitch of a mother for 8 years and if l decide to allow contact again it'll be only birthdays, Christmas etc.
I'm not fully estranged but I'm fairly low contact by choice with my parents, they weren't parental to me growing up, lots of emotional neglect there. I talk to them when I have to basically. I was more like a child living in their house to them.
That's funny. Most people I know have no to little contact with at least 1 parent. Probably depends on the social circle you're in?
It happens. I’m very “low contact” with one of my parents.
While I can't say I know a parent/ child duo that are estranged I do know plenty of sibling pairs who has nothing to do with each other.
I don't have anything to do with my half brothers and if they died tomorrow I would not care even a little bit. My mom hasn't spoken to one sister in 25 + years and the other she didn't speak to in 15+ until their death.
The sister who died also has a twin that she was estranged from for a decade. All the sisters except my mom had nothing to do with their half brother for their entire life.
I would say maybe it's just my family but my BFF has more or less completely disowned her big sister and a family friend has all but cut ties with her younger sister.
Yah siblings don’t seem particularly close here generally- I’m not close to my sister either ( we get on fine just not close, not much in common)
Hmmm
siblings don’t seem particularly close here generally
I think that depends on how you look at it. If you look at it from the point view of a culture where people spend a lot of time together, live close by each other and talk every other day - then yes, many swedes would appear very distant and not well connected to siblings, other family members and even friends. However, I know a fair few who don't speak with their siblings for weeks at a time and don't see each other outside of holidays and still consider their relationship to be close and good. As an example; the bff I mentioned above and I mainly only speak with each other through brief exchanges of memes and news every other day and we see each other in person maybe once a month despite living close by - and that is all it takes for her to be considered my closest friend and deepest connection I have.
Likewise, not being close to someone isn't necessarly a bad thing, it might be a neutral thing. Some would even consider the relationship good even if you aren't in each other's pockets or share nothing in common. As long as you aren't actively hating each other's guts it's good.
I guess it comes down to us having a different scale on which we meassure how involved we have to be with each other and still consider ourselfs connected.
I mean I’m not close to my sister even tho we get on and have no issue with one another so that’s definitely not just a Swedish thing but I consider it a shame and a failure on my parents part
I don't know how it is among other families, but in mine my aunt on my fathers side is pretty much seen as the black sheep of the family after she took money from my grandmother and as such we have pretty much no contact with her. My dad is most certainly not happy to see her.
I don't know anyone here in Sweden who has cut contact with their parents. That just means that is unusual in my social circle though.
I recommend a documentary called The Swedish Theory of Love. I think it’s somewhat exaggerated but not entirely. As in Japan, plenty of elderly people end up dying alone.
My friend told me about it but it sounded too depressing to watch
I’ll keep my Disney version of love thank you very much
Why is estrangement common in England? Is it because of fights or is it just something that happens naturally?
I've personally never heard of someone without any kind of contact with their parents, just some with strained relationships but they still talk and visit each other.
I would love to know myself!
I think it’s a case of the highly individualistic capitalistic “be self sufficient “ part of English culture clashes with the more traditional family loyalty part of the culture.
For my family did instance, my mother would get very upset if she didn’t get a present on her birthday as she saw that as my obligation as a daughter but when it came to hosting me at Christmas she very much saw it as a chore and imposition and when I asked her to lend me 10kr as I had not had a chance to take out any English money and needed to buy something she blew up in my face that I was irresponsible.
That anecdote shows how people can have very high expectations from family members on one hand but get very indignant if they feel under any obligation to help or provide support on the other so you have this constant tension between the two very different concepts
ETA also whilst I feel estrangement is more common in England, I also know families that are super close and loving too.
Think Disney style- going over for Sunday roasts regularly, going on holiday together, genuine warmth, love and care.
It’s very lovely to see ❤️
It happens everywhere. I have Swedish friends that are close to their parents or not so close but still keep contact. And some that are not in contact with their parents at all. My husband occasionally talks to his parents. If his mom doesn't text him, he won't text her neither.
I'm low contact with my brother. Not because we have a huge amount of issues, but since we just have nothing in common except our mom.
But I guess it's perhaps more common in the past, because my grandmother was estranged from her parents from childhood to, well, their deaths.
Oh it definitely happens here too, but people might not be so open about it. Swedes are overall quite private unless you get to know them well, so it’s very likely that you could be acquainted with someone that is not on speaking terms with their family and you would have no idea about it.
I would say though that a lot of Swedes’ strained family relationships stem from either a bad parent that the child wants no contact with, or when someone dies, a true inheritance war breaks out. The second reason is the one I’ve witnessed the most personally.
I myself am no contact with my older brother and it’s been like this since 2018, who I know frequents this sub so maybe he will see this lol. I’m not even sure he knows that our grandmother died 4 years ago so as you can see, a very strained relationship. Afaik no one else in the family has any contact with him either. But yeah about that privacy factor… unless someone is close to me I don’t even mention that I have a brother, so a lot of people think I’m an only child due to that funnily enough!
My brother does not speak to our mom. So it does happen, though not very common.
I know two people who are estranged from one or both of their parents.
But i dont think i know anyone else even second hand that is. So in my experience its very rare.
I've heard of it happening but I don't know anyone who it happened to.
I haven't had a relationship with my mother from about 5 years back. She had a personality change and became the kind of person I wouldn't want anything to do with so it wasn't worth the anguish every time we met and I decided to break off contact.
I don’t know anyone who is estranged from their family. How common is it in the UK and why?
Interesting subject! I know only one case, i know far more who still have a relationship with their "odd" parents
seems to be pretty common from reading here on reddit and other forums
Does it count if I don’t speak to my siblings but I do speak with my dad?
I’ve met many people in Sweden who are not in contact with their immediate family. Some are born and raised here, others moved here to escape family issues. It’s very much circumstantial but there are people who definitely cut you out for good. The trouble is that it can be hard to cope on your own.
I’ve seen many cases in the UK where people are not in touch for a while, but it always seems to me that they are more willing to negotiate things once in a while. Sometimes a mutual friend or relative will step in to mediate.
In a way Sweden is harder to cut out ppl because in England it’s relatively easy to make new friends who can become like a second family or connect more with extended family like an aunt or cousin
In Sweden it’s harder if you do t connect with your immediate family
I see your view but I think this might depend on how well you get on with your community too. After you hit your 30s people will have less energy to meet up so the ‘pool’ of people you can meet up on a casual basis will shrink.
Out of my close group of friends, about 10 people, there's only two(siblings) who doesn't have any contact with at least one of their parents. But that's because their dad is a complete dickhead, from what I have witnessed and from their stories, where he doesn't bother to reach out to them and they have basically cut their ties completely.
Only other example I can think of is my step-brother, but that's because he's a manipulative junkie who refuse to get better no matter how many times they(his parents) have tried to help him.
I'm estranged from my dad, sister and nephews. When mom died they went mental (she was the one forcing them to be normal) so I declined any further contact and haven't regretted it. Well... I regret not seeing my nephews but I don't want to get them in trouble with their mom/my sis so staying away until they are old enough to tell her to back off 😉
It does happen, just that people don't talk about it. My BILs dad was also estranged from his one parent (mom). He was born in the late 1920s, his mom a young unwed girl that came to Stockholm looking for work and found herself pregnant instead. He was raised by a foster family in Gotland and moved back to Stockholm when he was 20 but by then she had a husband and kids so wanted nothing to do with him and told him so (he was a shameful secret of her past).
Edit: My nephews are normal, my sis and dad (their mom and grandfather) lost it after my mom died. I hope I'll get to hang out with them again, perhaps when then move out/study at uni.
A new term is the "smoothbrain" Your brain have no ridges nor lumps, no valleys or bumps. All thoughts and ideas slide right off, like a waterslide. And thats sadly the majority of ppl in the world.
Listen, every country has its issues, some are worse then others, but share a lot aswell. The only thing that differs, are the culture.
We have family enstrangement here, some, are privilidged to not have it, and id say they are a minority. Sweden has a pretty strong pc culture. And this, isn ot something you talk willy nilly to strangers with. It takes years, to talk about stuff like this with ppl if at all.
A lot of ppl, get enjoyment from hearing stuff like this, and i think that behaviour is tocic and rather sick and will never promote someones need to know stuff like that.
Take suicide, most common question is, why, then how. Sometimes, its how thats more importent then the why. Both dont matter since the person is dead. Its just to satisfy your own blodlust of curiosity.
So, its the same everywhere. sweden got incest, child abuse, drugaddicts in families ect, u name it, we got it. We just dont talk about it.
And today, more then ever, ppl of all ages, feel like shit. i mean its crazy. Its a lot. The younger gen, feel like shit, us older peeps, also feel like shit, but we can hack it, our parents also feel like shit. Everyone feels like shit. But its bad to talk about it.
We have it all, we just dont talk about it due to the block pc culture has set. Even estranged families, or family members.
And its gonna get worse.
About the only data I could find on the subject:
This data is from 2016/2017 and shows how often people spend time with parents who they do not live with.
Around 4-5% very rarely or never spend time with parents they do not live with.
Most common for immigrants that became Swedes, due to honour culture and dumb religious stuff.
I don't know of anyone in my social circle who is estranged from their family. Girl i'm dating has a strained relationship to her dad, but not estranged.