Unpopular opinion: Without working consequences, I couldn't care less about Pyro after the last playtest.

See first, shoot first. No in-between.

So Pyro is basically DayZ in general?

Scanning ranges need to be 10x farther so we have time to react unless we are caught unawares. Missiles also need to have much much longer ranges. They are already extremely easy to defeat unless you are unawares.

They literally just installed the base of the rep system, so that's in at least

For me, being attacked by everything I see is not even the biggest problem.

The problem is you can't even explore properly. If you park your ship and get out, the first thing everyone will do if they see your ship is blow it up. After all, it's just sitting there and there's no consequences, why wouldn't they, right...

So now, even if you did survive because you hid, managed to defend yourself, whatever, you're still without a ship. You're essentially stuck wherever you are

The worse part is I actually see no way of solving this problem. Literally none.

When I had less than 1000 hours in the game, what we are about to get would have been the dream.

Now that I have who knows how many hours... Nothing can appease me until these things are addressed:

• the hitreg is server side (it's 100% client side now, in a worse way than I've ever seen for any game ever)

• tickrate needs to be 30+ at all times, not just when there's only 7 other people on the server (this is a very specific number of players I've identified through testing) - 4.0 can be expected to improve but I don't know by how much.

• almost all of the UI and interactions are exclusively server side when they should be partially/entirely client side. This slows down things in a disgusting way - transitions between screens are viscous/sticky/slow, well below industry standard at any point in history.

• pairing with the previous point: where relevant, such as inventory, the UI needs to be cached. Currently if you close the UI and reopen it again, even without it changing, a moment later or an hour later... It reloads the enitire thing and makes you wait. It should do what it needs to do backend behind the scenes and not make you wait. Any syncing and handshakes must be done in the games own time, not the players.

One thing I’ve learned in my years of gaming that kind of makes me really depressed to think about, is that a good % of people online have no real moral compass at all.

If given the opportunity to be a POS without consequences a lot of people will take it. It really saddens me that we have to design games in a way that detours people from needlessly making online games a worse experience for others.

Star citizen is a prime example of this and I think the only way to actually turn a rep system into a deterrent for bad behaviour is to make it extremely harsh. For example; you’re killing a lot of people, blowing up a lot of ships, and selling a lot of stolen cargo? Congrats now the ONLY real missions you can take are illegal ones bc no legal faction wants to touch you with a 1km pole and you can’t land at any of their stations either so good luck refuel or rearming anywhere but grim in Stanton.

Maybe the game can give you “ rehabilitation” missions which will VERY slowly rise your reputation if you’re in the red so that there is a path to redemption if you’re in the red zone.

The rep system needs to be an actual deterrent for it to make any meaningful difference. It needs to be built in a way that if you take part in any legal gameloops, you absolutely shouldn’t want to be in the reputation red zone. Unfortunately I have a hard time believing that cig would ever implement it to this extent

It's less about adding Pyro and more about adding a second system with static server meshing working. The rest can follow..

The dark forest of gaming, CiG needs to really focus on this.

On the contrary, if it does turn out that way, and it becomes a ghost town, maybe CIG will finally work out most players don't actually want Star Citizen to be a murderhobo gankfest.

Right now, I don't know why I would go to Pyro. I thought that maybe there would be lucrative cargo hauling between the two systems, or maybe ore that was only available in Pyro that Stanton pays a ton for. But there hasn't been any mention of those things that I've seen... Pyro just has the same missions Stanton has, except with ganking. That's hard for me to get excited about.

As CIG indicated, reputation hostility shipped in 3.23 just to ensure the feature works ahead of 4.0 when it'll be very much needed for pyro.

Also keep in mind the absence of armistice zone at Checkpoint station was a bug, and the ruthless camping and fighting we saw there contributed a lot to the perception that Pyro was an absolute mad pvp feast.

Killing people indiscriminately should be severely felt throughout ones gameplay. They should feel extremely reluctant to do so afterwards unless its under specific conditions.

CIG didn't stick to its original vision for Pyro with very few player conveniences, that would have incentivized cooperation among players to give access to huge rewards. In the end, they went for the same shitty content (deliveries, pve fps stuff) that will just be gank bait in a pvp hellscape. They are really lacking vision for their game recently.

As a PvE focused player, it's essentially a non-system to me until they change master modes to allow for easy escapes. A griefer's paradise = a big waste of content.

Hostility Reputation is already in. Outlaw Gangs have rules as well. Be their friend and they might help you.

The new quantum travel mode wherr you can point anywhere and jump without the need of OMs and quantum points would help in evading hotspots and camping sites.

Or just filling Stanton with missions and npcs and quest. That is what I really want

Pyro will be a PvP fest, where Pirates/PvPérs have free reign, wich is fine. Reason to add pyro in the first place.

The only way to get to pyro is trough the gate, which is going to be heavily fought around. One of the reasons most of the industrial people will stay in Stanton and away from that gate. Only a select few, with the org/people, overwelming power or the AUEC to risk, will go trough the corridor called pyro jumppoint.

This will force all pirates back to stanton, because the biggest group of pirates only want to fight the people they can "easily" win from for profits, and this group of easy to kill targets will not be found in Pyro.

Net result of this, is a mostly empty pyro, because there is no risk reward balance. and no reason to go between stanton and Pyro.

I for one have no plans in trading from and to pyro, nor the intest to go hunt people who do, or prevent others from hunting the people who do. even though i play all sides and roles in stanton. The only reason for me to go to Pyro will be sight seeing, until things are settled.

The only way i see this working, is with features like

• death of a space man, (reputation loss, partly respawning, higher consequences when dying)
• active npc patrol,
• high reward mission for transporting to and from pyro.
• Reasons to fly escort with some sort of pre-determained engagement, (fucking boring to escort otherwise)
• persistent reputation,
• the whole ship, weapon and QED dampning should be reworked till the point there is real planning needed for both sides. now a Single mantis is to strong, and is able to ground all vehicles in range. The bigger ships should have an active/passive defense against a single mantis. Like in eve with tiered system, and multiple low level dampners are able to ground a single big ship.
• and real consequences of going to prison. Especially when you bully someone in stanton the consequences should be persistent. You should be haunted and hunted until you're dead and in prison. Over multiple servers/shards and multiple days/weeks.

A few other things need to happen aswell,

• Disable merrit trading in jail, or disable staying in jail after jailtime is done(and losing all current merrit while leaving jail), currently you can leave an alt character in jail, and trade the merrits. Grind once, trade merrits, and recieve merrits when you end up in jail, leave jail in minutes.
• increase times for killing/or damaging non aggresive people ships, so everyone has to think twice about engaging.
• Massively increase pvp bounties, until its worth it to hunt someone over multiple servers and multiple days.

I’m totally a no pvp person, I am garbage at dogfighting, so I will probably will never see pyro.

Pyro has no reason not to have a police force, only the police force should be pirates

It’d be interesting is if the people who shoot on site would gain a bounty and Crimestat back in Stanton on top of the consequences in Pyro. Just because it’s lawless doesn’t mean ships don’t have black boxes and emergency broadcasts that’d send back to Stanton. And bounty hunters can go to Pyro to cash it in.

There are still so many fundamental systems that are missing or broken that it will be a shit fest like everything else.

Its not the consequence we need most, its the purpose. More space is meaningless without a tangible reason to go to it. Consequences mean little if the reward means little. The game needs a working economy, a sense of accomplishment, long term rewards, things to maintain and develop, etc.

More space and dead rocks isnt going to matter on its own.

I think initially Pyro needs to be less hardcore just because it's the ONLY content dropping in any meaningful size and quantity for what could be months or even a year.

Unless they drop other systems soon after.

Pyro in the end SHOULD be an endgame pvp system and a really battleground for that kind of player. In its final form it should be brutal. However I just don't think we need half the landmass of the game to be that....and making Pyro the first system was a really bad idea.

I don't think most players want to deal with that. It's a very one dimensional interaction with an area.

Hopefully they drop Nyx soon after and that's more PvE outlaw focused or they go into the more dense civilization areas like Terra or Magnus.

I will probably...not go to Pyro.

I think the point is to start it out completely lawless, and then see what's the minimum they can stray from pure unrestricted action, perhaps only by tweaking game balance, and still have a worthwhile experience.

I'm fine with Pyro being so brutal that most people stay away. Predators will thin out and come into equilibrium with prey. Prey will find ways to maximize their chances of survival if attack is likely. Only the predators that hunt in packs will have success once traders and their allies find an easy and effective way to organize convoys and gather a lot of collective firepower.

Most of the action will be between predators and patrols that keep the areas close to stations clear, out to say ~200 km range. That's sort of how it would be IRL, I think. Some small self-maintained bubbles where safety is weakly enforced by modest sized factions, and groups using various safety-in-numbers strategies to keep their odds reasonable of surviving A-to-B.

I am probably not gonna use pyro for a LONG time.

Yeah it's a place you go to pvp or you go to take pictures avoiding any places where you might get caught into a pvp scenario.

Any large scale level design is a waste outside Ruin Station because it just wont get used, not until Pyro is completely deescalated as the major PvP playground...but that won't happen till the people who mainline Pyro at LAUNCH max out all their rep and move on.

Them making it so pretty was so fucked up, what a waste. Just backdrops for getting ganked or ganking.

Then when we finally get Nyx, the actually interesting solar system...it's gunna be barren except the LZ because "Lore" or some bullshit when it has easily the most interesting faction in the verse so far. A human faction NOT in the UEE? and NOT specifically Outlaw? When will that happen again?

It'll be ArcCorp all over again, you get one interesting location and setpiece that is one of a kind in the verse...and they just do nothing with it.

Im hoping Nyx, the system after Pyro, is more focused on PvE outlaw stuff with maybe some horror monsters lurking in the blackness of the Dark Nebula. Really hoping they expand on that solar system like they did with Pyro to make it more interesting, maybe even have them terraforming a planet just to have SOMETHING going on outside Levski.

I think it's a good test, what CiG have to except when they go live with those circumstances or would release such Systems.

Hopefully this give them enough time develop workarounds/sanctions to catch those evil griefers and just destructive Assholes that only have fun in ruining others games...

I definitely not mean the legal Pirate Gameplay... When someone take money for not killing me or even boarding me, and take my ship to sell the Cargo... So what... Shit happens, but just getting killed out of nowhere with no benefit for the pirate is just dumb

Maybe they could add a (Pirate someone Button to start a "Quest" like steps between Pirate and the Victim to make things clear without texting or Voice chat.

its so funny to me that people think that stuff like that should be allowed. Pirates or not rough and ready probably don't want you killing their potential business partners and potential income.

Pyro is just more space for the same simple gameplay. Nothing to get excited about pyro

long-range scanning, a working reputation system

right after new hairstyles and piercing

Pyro is supposed to be lawless and ruled by gangs, i dont see why people expect different. Youd be crazy to travel there without a ship or ships that can fight very well. Tho i understand that it will get annoying fast if youre attacked at outposts etc when going fps or whatever. Thats why there should be safezones but only if you have good rep with that faction.

The main thing the pyro playtest taught us is that even the bobbiest of PVE-loving bobs turns into a slobbering ganklord when the minimal consequences that exist in Stanton are removed.

It was adorable.

The pirates and griefer mains didn’t change a thing. They don’t care about consequences in Stanton and they didn’t in pyro.

We need a much higher radar implementation for long range scanning, detection and identification

Once again, people are yelling about things that aren't even in the game yet ...

Put down those damn pitchforks ffs!!!!!!!!

I agree, we also have the recent change to tier 3 med beds allowing a respawn.

Every single parked ship is going to be blown up on sight now in Pyro, just in case it has a Tier 3 med bed in it. It's going to be absolute chaos.

Everyone will shoot on sight.

Open/Solo/Private Groups, just like in E:D, might be the answer.

It's my understanding that Pyro is supposed to lean heavily on a revamped reputation system. Actions have consequences in that you could piss off certain gangs your target player is affiliated with, turning you into persona non grata. Be an asshole often enough and you won't be able to land anywhere without being shot at.

The gangs are the law.

Unless there is some sort of security on the other side of the pyro-Stanton gateway I just feel like you’ll die as soon as you get to pyro, hopefully it’s atleast an armistice zone or something so at the very least the actual gateway is a safe zone

Agree with OP, currently Pyro is going to be a griefing murderfest.

What we need is a rep system for each outpost and station. No station would want some guy sitting outside killing their customers. The idea of not having consequences just doesn't make any sense.

Pyro is EXACTLY the system where we can murder and mayhem is the rule. It's the wild west and the safe haven for criminals and all scums and villains. 

You SHOULD expect to be shot on sight in Pyro, it's not tye system for PvE players who want to take screenshots and be left in peace.

Come at your own risk, this is a null sector.

Well, the game is not finished yet so consequences are coming, and hopefully long term effects that also an accumulate over time.

I think with at least server meshing the criminal NPC factions that protect the stations (and Stanton's own station defences) will be more adequate at protecting players and if that is the case, then if at least the Pyro-side gateway station can be accessible without the player being attacked/killed the moment they leave the jump gate then that will be good enough.

Pyro will be a shoot on first sight kind of place, if you aren't around an outpost with defences or in a station being guarded, you cannot expect anything else than to shoot first and ask questions later.

Nobody should expect to enter Pyro and not be at risk of attack.

The game needs some massive overhauls of functionality and bug fixes before the idea of a second solar system should ever come up. The game barely functions a lot of the time

Pyro is the Murder hobos playground and a place where it kinda makes sense to be a murder hobo. So, at the very least, it will make Stanton more enjoyable for players who don't want random people shooting them.

I've always thought Pyro would be for other players (not me) and I still do. I have ZERO problem with places like Pyro and actually hope there are more "scary" places like it. Space is a scary place so it fits. For me though, I'm looking forward to the next "not Pyro" system and (hopefully) many many more. I'm sure I'll make the trek to Pyro at least once, check it out, and most likely die there.

Pryo for me will be like Dark Zones in Division 2. You load up with your friends and go out to the better loot and pvp.

Honestly. I’m kinda looking forward to pyro. When everyone moves there Stanton will be nice and empty

well i hope that there would be more work on the reputation side of things... considering that's in my opinion one of the main draws to pyro is choosing a gang or two to get friendly with them and getting rewards for getting friendly with them.

at the same time other than checkmate station I don't think lawful types will be overly welcome to pyro other than the citizens for pyro faction.

we'll see.

it will be hard, it will be dangerous but I think at least the jump point one side is within UEE protection, so that side will have stuff to negate camping somewhat

and the Pyro side is i think next to checkmate which is rough and ready owned so shooting in their territory might not be the best option for long (which is what the reputation hostility that was added in 3.23 is meant to allow)

your personal defence measures is your quantum drive and the turrets and or guns on your ship
the reputation is a big thing so I hope that's in.... and long range scanning... i mean maybe soonTM

if they let us spawn there i'll probably just be spawning into pyro as I want criminal reputation.