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Lightsabers are a type of sword, idiot. They literally have the exact same function as a sword. This rebuttal makes no sense.
Ignorance of RealityOh my god we are 6 reactions deep at this piont
Exactly what I was thinking, I was like damn when is this going to end
More, more!!!!!! Also, that fight was badass, whatever one may think about the show, that fight was bad ass
More reactions is what I meant, I just think it's funny how they become these nestling dolls of reacting to the reactions.
Oh, I see now. Also
You thought you enjoyed this thing but actually you didn't
I can tell, because I'm an expert at swords
Spinning is and always will be unrealistic, stupid and something no one would ever do. It doesn't do anything but expose your back.
Any amateur sword fighter knows and sees this in every fight scene ever made bar like three. Anyone with hands on experience can see instantly what makes sense and what doesn't.
Doesn't make it bad. Doesn't make it good either. Not sure what everyones issue is.
Besides this dude being cooked. I'm down with that.
I hate that his take is all that's spoken about.
There's tons of material about cinematic sword fighting from actual choreography professionals and demos of what would be considered better. Tons.
It looks cool and that’s all I need from a lightsaber fight
Having watched a few minutes his main objection didn’t seem to be against spinning it was more about not taking easy hits. Example smilo-Ren would kick a few cm away from the person lightsaber them in the face. It kinda looks semi cool but it’s pretty obvious that you would just end up with no leg.
The point is you can look cool and have some pointless moves (ie phantom menace/etc) or you can just make it completely unrealistic and it makes it difficult to maintain immersion.
Yeah I just watched a bit of these fights and that was all I really noticed as absurd. And it always is. Flips too.
But I find it easy to allow lightsabers to be 100% unique and have no correlation to real fighting whatsoever.
Cause they're force users. Theres a whole meta battle on another level. Trying to out fox eachothers feelings and sensing the future.
That would change how everyone would fight. It would account for apparent stupid blows and blocks. And it plays perfectly to fights being narrative and character based instead of base skills.
Personally I'd prefer it went full Chinese wushu and no one moves much at all and then there's an extreme flurry of blows.
Must have hated the prequels then.
No you don't understand when Obi-Wan and Anakin both twirled their lightsabers around aimlessly for like five straight seconds that was totally legit swordplay
Never at any point in the history of Star Wars has the lightsaber combat been realistic. Lol
Exactly.
I like acolyte but what you just said is a big pet peeve of my mine with every sword fight. Sword fights are already cool, you don't need dumb moves to make them cooler.
Also just to make it look cool or pretty, that too. Overall, nothing is really deadly or gritty, lightsabers don’t even really keep characters dead anymore from what I’ve heard
Wtf? But spinning is a good trick!
Bold words. 30year martial arts expert and tournament champion swordfighter in masters division here.
Skall used to hold this silly position too then people sent him videos of people spinning in live matches. He started having to admit that there are exceptions.
My favorite analogy for fighting is cooking competitions like chopped. You get given a scenario and you handle it with your knowledge and techniques but there's tons of room for artistry. That's why it's martial arts. That being said, as rule for amateurs sure spinning is bad and flipping is bad. That's like saying you can't cook things without fire. Sounds sane and like a good rule. Problem is it's blatantly untrue.
What is cooking? Rendering food safe for consumption by killing all harmful bacteria. Dishes cooked by acids like carppachio exist , sushi exists, theoretically foods cooked using extreme flash freezing might exist. So it's thuroughly possible to cook with no fire.
Pretty much every single martial art including YouTube sword bros beloved hema has situations where spinning is called for and tons of them do call for kicks and even occasionally flips.
This particular guy just loves to make weird rage bait worthy takes with support being basically I fucked around in my backyard and I can't make it work so see it's impossible!
This fight scene was pretty solid.
Can you explain why spinning in a swordfight would be advantageous in certain situations? I've never handled a sword in real life unless you count a toy lightsaber, so I know basically nothing.
Sure there's a bunch of reasons to do so
here is a western example using a great sword
Generally speaking though I think spinning with weapons or in unarmed combat as well is done for 1 of 3 reasons. 1) to aggressively control space 2) because it adds more power to potential strokes at the cost of accuracy and control and that is just a trade off some martial arts are willing to make. It can really benefit smaller fighters. 3) because you're momentum or positioning is wonky and spinning is the most natural , fastest and therefore most effective way to continue the fight and correct that.
To be fair, this video was a lot more about people standing around and not attacking when the opponent is open, kicking when you could have used the lightsaber instead (ie it wasn't busy parrying another attack or something), or just swinging at thin air. In other words, the usual problems with 1 vs Many fights with deadly weapons. Honestly, it's a lot like the throne room scene from Last Jedi--really cool and flashy the first time you see it, but if you look closely, there are a lot of problems with it as a fight.
And let's be honest, both takes are valid: it was cool and flashy and just real enough to suspend my disbelief, so I liked it; and it was all style and so unrealistic I could not suspend my disbelief, so I didn't like it. That's going to come down to a matter of personal preference. The main complaint from the latter group is that, with some more effort, it could have pleased both groups, but they didn't bother. Which is only partially fair; there were definitely things that could have been done better with more effort, but they are working under real-world time and budget constraints.
That's a fair take.
I do think in this particular case a lot of it is I'm mad at this show for other silly reasons so I'm going to nitpick everything beyond any point of reasonability. So I don't think ALL of the unrealistic crowd is making a statement in good faith and definitely not shad.
I don't like the acolyte I think it's boring and I wish we'd gotten the wookie Jedi kung fu fight they talked about for 2 and half episodes. Overall I get what it's going for and it could be done better. That being said this scene was fine and while best is overdoing it , its certainly stands out more than most fights in the series.
It did a solid job of conveying the vibe of the scene and gave us a couple cool highlight reel moments (Jedi kabob). The stranger used a wide variety of tricks, speed , a better aptitude for the force and raw violence to overwhelm a number of unprepared Jedi who were weak from years of complacency. That meant using spacing and timing to strike and kill when he had openings and movement/aggression to create those openings. So they focused on it being a fast frantic sort of fight in the dark. Where the Jedi can never quite pin him down and he picks them off by one and twosies.
Does it have a legitimate things to criticize yeah sure even I found myself eye rolling when he monologues and does slow Jason Voorhees style slasher walking not this nonsense.
That being said the code of the sith says killing your enemy isn't enough. You have to dominate them. So it wouldn't really make sense for him to be hyper efficient anyway. Theatricality and looking cool is part of his religion. This is why the sith don't use trakata even though basically everyone is in agreement that it's basically the most effective lightsaber fighting technique because relying on its tricks "makes you look weak". This is why the pride of the sith is their weakness.
A lot of the stuff also had to do with getting the cloak out of the way, as unlike with actual lightsabers, stage props can’t melt away cloaks. So they sometimes did such things to get the cloak out of the way or something while filming. Idk honestly
There is actually an exception to the no spin rule: greatswords. And I don’t mean Italian/German long swords I mean actual big and heavy greatswords where spinning was actually documented and is still used as an effective way to increase velocity of the swing, also given their applications in war it was generally assumed you’d be surrounded anyway so no matter what you were showing your back to somebody.
Never seen that in terms of a single blow.
I have seen them swung continually over the head to cover all angles and keep swinging to multiple sides.
I tried to make this comment on the original post, but I'm banned
But... they're not the same? How is fighting with a longsword in any way similar to fighting with a fictional weapon that's effectively weightless, has a different shaped blade and is designed to be wielded by various species of people who often fight using acrobatics and telekenisis. I don't recall anyone complaining about Yoda flipping around like he's on speed because it's unrealistic. Or what about the cyborg who fought with 4 at once, was that a traditional medieval technique?
They do have weight though. In theory they don’t but in movement and use they do. A while back I watched a video going over how the movement of the lightsaber is that of something with weight. If they didn’t have weight it would look like they were fighting with flashlights.
Iirc lightsaber blades have momentum, but not weight. Igniting a lightsaber doesn’t change the weight of it, but it changes how it’s handled when swung around. It’s also why you can impart force to strikes and why it takes time to build up speed when swinging. I don’t know if there’s an in-universe explanation for such nitty-gritty science, but out-of-universe it’s because the lightsaber props had weight and if they didn’t it would look really stupid, like trying to fence with laser pointers.
They have weight in the actual world and humans have to swing them during fight scenes, but in cannon they have no weight
The lore is conflated on this.
Force sensitives had a monopoly on physically being able to use them, but that's not the case anymore.
Well even the term "force sensitive " means nothing anymore.
It's not even conflated anymore. Even in Disney canon, they have weight, i.e. the Darksaber.
They are fighting with flashlights. Like, almost literally. The reason it looks like they have weight is because it's all in the hilt. The blade itself has a physical force but no weight, as it is literally a visible projection of energy.
The real-world explanation for appearing to have a full weight is that the props are lighter and have a colored stick so the effects team can see where to digitally insert to lightsaber blade in post. Additionally, the actors are all trained by modern swordsmen, with swords that have actual weight to them. It makes sense to our minds because we aren't familiar with a sword that can turn on and off and has a hilt, the approximate size and weight of a cop's flashlight
Isn’t Shads whole schtick that hefty, weighted lightsabers in fight scenes are stupid, and that we should hate them? And isn’t that why we hate Disney Star Wars for that matter? That is literally Disney Stans #1 defense. You have become the very thing you swore to destroy!
most sword fighting irl depends heavily on the weight of the blade and the ability to grab, bolster or push the blade end. one of the most effective fighting methods with a sword was basically using the thing as a club.
it's pretty obvious why it's different to fighting with a light saber
Yeah, OP has a really stupid take. Lightsabers have several important differences to swords, such as weight and where that weight is located, edge alignment doesn’t exist because it’s all edge, and newsflash, when you have force enhanced abilities, your gonna be able to use techniques that normal people can’t do period.
Because it's a big cutty thing and if your guard is low you lose your head
Unless your head breaks the blade trying to take it.
I have to say, I do love the depth of thinking and logical consideration that goes into replies on this sub.
I used to watch his videos before I found out he was a Mormon and had some beliefs I can't align with.
If I remember right he said you wouldn't use it as a longsword and that it would be most effective as a rapier. Basically since the saber is so incredibly hot you'd only need to poke someone with it and the moisture in their body would instantly evaporate and they'd explode.
I mean yeah, absolutely, lightsabers as weapons make zero sense if you were to look at them that way. But most people don't because spinny flippy flashy sword fights are cool to see on the big screen. That's one reason it's so dumb that people try to overanalyse lightsaber choreography using real swords as a comparison. They aren't the same beyond the basic shape of the thing. But who cares, because they're freaking cool!
In a world with space mage-knights it doesn't have to make sense. You could say for a non Jedi the best way to use a light saber is like a rapier but for Jedi the best way to use them is with all those fancy moves.
If they're able to sort of predict the future to parry Laser fire then maybe the only way for a Jedi to defeat another Jedi is to do things that would seem disadvantageous. Do something that will leave the other Jedi able to see what your next move will be. More a mind game than pure skill
Exactly. Which is why it makes no sense when people are using a comparison of real swordfighting techniques to lighsaber battles as a reason to criticise The Acolyte or the prequels or whatever. It's like when people cry and whine whenever there's anyone other than a CisHet caucasian able-bodied guy with a boring haircut on screen. Just makes all Star Wars fans look and sound like idiots while ligitimate critisisms get completey lost in an ocean of performative youtube outrage
the saber is so incredibly hot you'd only need to poke someone with it and the moisture in their body would instantly evaporate and they'd explode.
Ahh yes, that thing that happens every time someone gets cut with a lightsaber.
It doesn't happen in the movies but if it was a real weapon that's what would happen. They wouldn't explode like disintegrate but the blood and anything wet that's near the wound would act like water dumped in hot oil. Maybe I should have used pop instead of explode
Spinning and flipping around is advantageous for a smaller fighter, not for larger.
Lightsabers are a type of sword, idiot. They literally have the exact same function as a sword.
They have the same function, but that does not mean they function the same.
A sword has one or two cutting edges and binds are dynamic/quick.
A lightsaber's entire length in every direction is a cutting surface and binds seem to lock in.
There is also different weight, different momentum, and the on/off feature to think about.
Also, Shad is a moron when it comes to actual sword combat, to the point where he has serious issues with the HEMA community because they call him on his bullshit.
Also don't forget that swords tend to have a guard which lightsabers lacked (until the sequel trilogy) and also that the lightsabers cutting length is improbably sharp and hot.
Well, quick question. If the lightsaber can cut through like a meter of titanium pretty easily, wouldn't that just flambe almost everyone in the room almost instantly, especially the Jedi's hand, which is inches away from something that is apparently way hotter than the surface of the sun.
TL;DR this is a long winded way of saying almost all the heat stays in the blade or metal that is being cut, for an explanation in autistic detail, read the following paragraphs.
the Leidenfrost effect, thermal conductivity, and heat capacity would be why. heat does not move instantaneously, it moves incredibly slowly - this is thermal conductivity - in everything that isn't an explosion. in addition to thermal conductivity is thermal capacity you could think of this as (and this is putting It very basically) the rate at which things heat up. to recap really quickly, thermal conductivity is how quickly heat can get to a location, and heat capacity is how quickly a mass can gain heat. the Leidenfrost effect is the phenomenon where an extreme difference in temperature creates an insulating vapour layer (this is the reason why you should not wear gloves when handling liquid nitrogen, because gloves prevent the Leidenfrost effect and as such makes you more susceptible to cold burns). metals generally have much higher thermal conductivity and much lower thermal capacities than organic materials, which means the change in thermal state happens significantly faster in metals, furthermore the density of the medium transferring the heat impacts the thermal conductivity as there is more particle collisions per unit of time.
as an aside this is the same reason the "pink mist" phenomenon is pseudo-science, in case you are unaware of the pink mist phenomenon, alot of "science communicators" that aren't actually educated in physics and come from nerdy/geeky circles, try to claim that things like plasma/energy weapons, including things like the Lightsaber and Halo's Energy Sword would cause the water in the human body to flash vapourise, leading to rapid expansion, which puts an outward pressure on the body making it pop from the inside, however this is entirely unrealistic as heat just can't move through the human body fast enough to cause this, any level of heat that could move fast enough (because thermal conductivity increases alongside temperature) would incinerate the flesh and bone to ash, and said ash would carry away almost all of the heat that isn't used in the process of turning flesh and bone to ash (which would be almost all of it), ever seen a 5th degree burn? this process is what leads to 5th degree burns.
God I love autistic science people
Honestly, the main rebuttal should be about the statement "Man knowledgeable about swords." Shad (the guy who made the video) is a complete joke in the martial history and HEMA world. He is a fucking child who whinges about everything and is horribly obtuse and spreads blatant misinformation about historical fighting styles. Like, Lightsabers are essentially swords, or at least used as a sword stand in because it's the easiest way to show a fight between two force users, that's dumb to call out, but Shad has absolutely no authority to speak as a relevant voice on any fight scene accuracy.
Light sabers don’t really make sense the way they are used. That being said it’s a stupid reason to dislike starwars.
…is this post in itself satire? Swords and lightsabers aren’t exactly 1 to 1 when it comes to weight, let alone several other factors that would affect handling
It's almost like there are different kinds of swords and a bastard sword, a katana, a gladius, and rapier would all involve wildly different styles due to weight and balance.
Heres my main problem with lightsabers. They aren’t actually lightsabers. An actual lightsaber would just go through someone without hurting them. Hence how light doesn’t hurt you when you’re under it. Also a saber is a curved blade. More accurate definition which I’ve used since I was a kid is Laser Sword. If I’m wrong by some means from the lore then okay, but I still find it massively inaccurate as far as describing what it is.
Now I'm thinking of that Venture Brothers episode where one of the henchmen gets a working lightsaber from a yard sale, only do find out it actually just passes through the target without hurting them.
They’re literally not swords. They don’t physically function like swords. They aren’t made of conventional matter and the blades don’t have conventional mass to manipulate with conventional inertia.
Also, swords exist and abide by laws of physics that are currently empirically measurable, and don’t abide by laws of physics that came out of some writers’ imaginations.
Even if you're right it's not a kind of sword he has experience with.
Also star wars has always used stage fighting. Going full hema on it would not be faithful.
A lightsaber is literally all edge and doesn't require much force to cut. A duel with them would look very different from one with swords in nearly every way. I'm happy to just watch fun choreography.
We’ve watched enough fight scenes with lightsabers that we don’t need to talk in the hypothetical about what a fight “would” look like. They DO look EXACTLY like sword fights.
Yeah, exactly. Every aspect of Star Wars is wildly unrealistic. The only important question is, "does this look cool?"
I do think criticizing Lightsabers and the Force wielders using them can’t be done completely with our perspective as regular humans with metal blades. There’s a lot to account for that we do not have experience with in any way; chief among those things is actual foresight (magically so) into what an enemy is going to do beyond regular insight. That said, basing choreography in our rooted real world seems important as at least a starting point.
P.S. (side but related thought) Also love to find out solid professional fight choreographers get good work, and I’d say Star Wars might only be beat by something like Game of Thrones on their resumes. (Give fight choreographers work! And pay them for their good work too!)
Lightsabers are a type of sword yeah, but they absolutely do not have "the same function" as a sword. If it was the same, they wouldn't have replaced vibrablades, the actual swords they used to use. A regular sword doesn't have a kyber crystal or a power cell, and it sure isn't gonna cut through a massive metal door.
A lightsaber is more than a sword. It's also a status symbol, a defense, and an indicator of strengths. Before the combat got all fancy in the prequels, a lightsaber duel was slow and methodical. Both parties knowing that a single strike will end them right there.
Like, to call it a sword is like calling a toad a frog. Yes, it's technically correct, but there's so much more to it than that
All this aside, you gotta admit Shad just looks cringe doing these videos now.
Ugh so for everyone unfamiliar. Shad is a right wing mormon political and cultural commentator, sword enthusiast, and author. He's been taking a lot of rage bait stances to drum up interest in his novels and other channels.
Hes only been practicing hema formally for a few years, and has few competitions under his belt. I would by no means consider him a definitive martial arts expert (if such a thing even exists)
He's made I hate it reaction videos to every episode and says he's "hate watching it". He's trying to nitpick shit that doesn't make sense to him , but is actually entirely reasonable from an objective martial arts standpoint.
Shad is also just a idiot lol
Y'all are looking at this all wrong.
Lightsabers isn't swords, swords is lightsabers
Proof: "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...."
SEE?! Lightsabers came before swords; we've been doing swords wrong!
Thank god the sword fighting in my space magic movie is realistic.
The fact that a Lightsaber can be turned off and that it has no weight in the 'blade' means that fighting with it would be different than fighting with a sword. And then you add in the metal that shorts lightsabers and you fundamentally change how they fight someone like that, as you can't just hit the armour but have to actively avoid it.
All that, on top of the fact that Shad is a fucking twat who is often wrong, but loves to tout himself as the authority and claim that he's "incredibly knowledgeable" but anyone with a passing knowledge knows he's a fucking twat.
I know for the darksaber it is said to be very heavy, but not sure for a lightsaber
Darksabers weight seems to operate in a Mjolrnir type basis where it's weight differs depending on whos holding it
No, it’s really is heavy as specified in the lore and seen in Mandalorian. The darksaber is won through combat and regardless of who fought and won it, it’s heavy but if it’s a powerful force user then ofc they will find it easier to wield due to their power but on average, every person who tries to wield it finds it very heavy.
As seen in the Mandalorian, it's explained that its weight comes from some mystical force of belief in oneself. Mando doesn't believe himself worthy or something, so it's heavy. Other characters in the same show hold it in one hand with barely any effort, yet he can barely lift it with two. It's weight changes with the user, that's the lore.
Bo-Katan Kryze deemed herself worthy and even held it still with struggle due to its weight seen in the Mandalorian as well. According to a runaway Jedi, the DS is considerably harder to wield than the average lightsaber stated in the Clone Wars.
Because it feeds on your thoughts. Any doubts, no matter how small, feed it's weight.
No weight to the blade? You do know the light blade does have a weight? Sure not as heavy as steel but close to samurai swords.
To be fair he is not far wrong sure they can be turned on and off but it’s basically the same. Fighting with a lightsaber is very close to fighting with a samurai sword it’s a very fair comparison.
What? It's nothing like a "samurai" sword, whatever you think that is.
And what do you think Japanese swords are made of?
For starters a katana is only bladed on one side. Lightsabers are 360.
And light doesn't have weight. Tf.
Kenjustsu and HEMA are wildly different arts.
Light does not weigh but the blade of a light saber does. Swords and samurai are not the same but are close - something does not need to be perfectly the same to be “like” something else. The tactics and abilities can be justified to be about the same thus opportunities users have in both sorts of conflict should be used unless of course there is a good reason why they couldn’t.
Why do you keep saying samurai like that's a thing? Samurai are a political class.
What blade are you talking about? Cause katanas are literally nothing like a laser sword.
Why would the blade weigh when it's made of light? It would weigh nothing. It'd be like.me playing sword fighting in VR. I hold a handle with a weightless blade.
Sword fighting/HEMA/Kenjutsu is nothing like MMA. You don't use the "best" technique. You use your techniques. Exclusively.
Why a katana versus a longsword is absurd to watch cause it doesn't match. Or sumo versus a kick boxer. You basically say it's the same. It's not. At all.
I’m saying a samurai sword is close enough to a light saber.
That actual light saber blade weighs - the Mando blade weighs the most when on it’s a thing. And yes even though light itself has no weight. It’s SW Disney thing and yes makes no sense.
I’m not saying they are the same but instead saying they are close enough.
And I'm saying it's not and explained how.
You can't even stop saying samurai sword.
Ok agree to disagree.
Only when you view it as a samurai sword and take away the different elements that comes from a light blade. Another example is defense against a ranged opponent, laser weapons are useless but lead slingers are effective.
Their is differences but saber on saber is not unlike samurai duels thus knowledge in this field is valid.
To which Shad is also not an authority, because if you've ever watched anything by him you'll know that he has an incredibly narrow and self serving view. That he cannot view anything outside of Medieval English Knights. He always refers back to that, not Samurai, and still gets it wrong.
I remember this DnD video in which, to argue he could fight at 10 feet without a reach weapon, he stood on one leg, leaned forward until he was nearly off balance, held the sword by the pommel and barely touched the other person with the very tip of his sword. And that was his 'gotcha
Even in this video he lambasted Smilo for not defending his head. His head that has special armour which turns off lightsabers which again shows why you can't just think of it as a normal sword fight.
I watched him when he said that fighting with lightsabers was more like samurai sword fighting not medieval. I don’t remember the DnD one but to be fair he “could fight” just not very well. I watched that vid I don’t remember him saying that until the Sith guy lost his helmet thus not protecting his unarmored head. But seriously medieval sword fighting is very close without the armour though.
The part shown in the image is when he starts laughing about not protecting his head. He clearly still has the helmet there.
You have to link the vid maybe this was a different vid I was watching.
"Medieval" and " samurai" have absolutely no correlation and both words mean absolutely nothing anyway.
Other than fighting with a sword (medieval) and samurai sword is as same as fighting with a samurai sword and light saber. Not perfectly the same but still close enough.
Haha this person who also probably critiques the troop deployments of stormtroopers compared to the tactics of modern troops.
I mean he's knowledgable about Swords. But knows maybe only a little bit more than the average person about actual combat?
Lots of fight scenes are cool and seem legit, until you slow them down.
I'm not saying we shouldn't pick apart those things, but we could at least do it with good humour rather than for seemingly the only purpose of "see? i told you star wars was bad!!!"
Also, it's star wars.
Not quite sure who's watching it for realism, but either way; probably shouldn't go searching for it too hard in a universe of space mystics and moon-sized lasers.
EDIT: I thought the fight scene was pretty cool tbh
Shad sucks and is generally an idiot. It’s not worth the time to defend him
Na he’s spot on about the choreography on the Acolyte. People cried about it on twitter and told him to criticize the prequels not knowing he had done so already and found that the choreography was night and day compared to the Acolyte.
What would he know about choreography? He's never done anything in that field and is a joke to actual European martial arts experts.
Pretty much all fight choreography is "bad" when slowed down. That is because fight choreography is not actual real fighting.
You mean it isn't real people in the magic box fighting to the death?! SMH my head Kathleen Kennedy ruined it
God people downvoting you are stupid. I’m can’t believe they are upset the movie with space wizards and laser swords isn’t perfectly realistic.
Right am I the only one sitting here saying “who cares” - why do the fights need to be realistic? Why would we even want them to be?
I’m here to be entertained not schooled in practical ways to defend myself against someone with a lightsaber.
The act of hitting your opponent is still the same instead of intentionally missing, you can cope all you want, just because it’s a fantasy world doesn’t mean we have to praise pathetic choreography.
He had to slow the video down to make some of these complaints, the choreographers did their jobs good enough to make everyone who want to enjoy it happy and not well enough to make people who have too much time on their hands happy, which tbh most of you people here don’t seem like you’d ever be happy so why should they bother trying for you?
And on the other hand, you’d probably enjoy something that’s completely uncoordinated with laser swords flailing about and deem it perfect just because the movements are fast. Some people aren’t easily amused by key jangling and call it out for what it is.
The peak of intellectualism, insulting someone.
You seem like you’d enjoy something that isn’t Star Wars so why don’t you take your jangling keys and fuck off?
I said it’s akin to enjoying key jangling because you literally mentioned they did “good enough to make everyone who want to enjoy it happy”, where did I insult you? You’re implying that if you want to enjoy the show, then they’ve done enough for you to get enjoyment out of it, but if you watch it objectively either neutrally or from a critics perspective then you may not. That explains Disney Star Wars fans perfectly, also I find it funny how your first instinct is to tell critics to fuck off.
I don't disagree with the core point — that choreography doesn't have to be realistic as long as it looks good on film, like the Duel of the Fates or Luke vs. Vader — but it's such a fucking cop-out to say "space wizards and laser swords" as if suspension of disbelief isn't a major player in a production like this. Yeah, it's all made up and none of it really happened, but the same applies to a solid 98% of movies, and if Castaway ended with Tom Hanks finding a parked helicopter and flying out it wouldn't be justified just because the audience knew it was fake when they walked into the movies so it doesn't need to be realistic.
He literally had to slow the footage down to make some of these complaints. The choreography did its job.
Also, you better have the same energy for the prequels, otherwise you’re just as much of a hack as shad.
Why
True, but Shad really has no fucking clue about swords, HEMA or stage fighting.
20 years ago that guy would have been the medieval version of Star Wars Kid.
The choreography had issues, but lightsabers don't work the same as real swords, and even if they did, shadiversity is not qualified to comment on them. The dude made a career out of being bad at swords, and pivoted it into a career of being bad at media criticism and politics
Lightsabers work just as well as samurai swords even though they are lighter. He is very quailfied just like anyone with samurai sword fighting knowledge.
So... something he doesn't have? The dude has been schooled by multiple much more highly regarded HEMA practitioners/instructors and has never even tried learning how to use a katana.
Shad entered grifter territory not long ago. He isn't worth defending. Especially over Star Wars stuff.
Elaborate.
There’s a subreddit about complaining about him called r/shadwatch
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I know but it's all the same "he's an alt right grifter" without any evidence whatsoever.
He tried to debunk evolution in an anti gay video
So are you saying you think he believes that and is not a grifter or you're saying he doesn't believe that?
He is following the controversy clicks either way.
It doesn't matter if he believes it or not, the function is the same in the grifter space.
Tones of grifters are such good liars they can convince themselves, it's a pointless effort to parse it out because you can never prove what is in someone's head at a given moment.
It absolutely matters, because grifters intentionally lie about their beliefs for money. That's literally what makes them grifters.
No, they defraud people for money. You can believe your scam is legit and still be a grifter.
Think mlms and pyramid schemes.
It’s literally impossible to tell the difference. That’s the point of grifting
It's not impossible, the fact you don't require evidence shows that grifter means "people I don't like" to you.
Here is a big thread on why Shad is a weird grifter:
Shad isn't an actual expert in swords, he just pretends to be one on YouTube.
i’m ngl homie you mean obsessed with them
Lightsabers aren't 1:1 with swords but when it comes to saber to saber combat its pretty close. The main thing sabers have is that they're retractable.
That and there’s no “flat” side of the blade. Cuts from any angle
This is too nerdy even for me
You losers get way too upset about star wars
Going by the original extended universe, that I guess is no longer valid due to Disney they used to be battery operated with a pack on the belt in the early builds of lightsabers and while yes they are unlike any sword we have made here on earth you wield then effectively the same stab stab slice slice.
I hate when sword people are like, it is not like real life, like buddy they are fictional laser swords
Shut up idiots, I am a swordologist and you're all wrong. Trust me, I'm am a swordologist
Doesn’t sithbro have a cortosis alloy helmet or some shit? Why bother blocking when you’ve got a lightsaber counter on your face
Bruh I was saying the same thing
This video will make you angry
This is a field of flowers, and everyone here are butterflies. Stop it.
This whole thing might be a little silly, but people keep saying "best lightsaber duel EvER," so idk why they're surprised when people with different opinions try to refute it. Strong opinions yield strong opinions.
This fandom is just a snake eating itself.
A lightsaber would be much lighter than a sword with all its weight balanced down to the hilt, and requires barely any force at all to inflict harm. So while I'm not a sword fighter, it seems obvious that a lightsaber would be wielded differently than something like a katana or rapier.
I love the first lightsaber duel in New Hope between Ben and Vader, it's so slow and clunky. Like the actors themselves are scared to be using these incredibly dangerous lightswords
They do work differently from a regular sword since the blade is weightless and actually resists movement. But their use is the same. Cut/stab a motherfucker.
A lightsaber isn't really a sword. You wouldn't use them the same. For one, the blade has no weight which would impact how you use it. Second, with a sword, the harder you swing, the more damage you will do. With a lightsaber, whether you swing hard or just tap someone, you will inflict the same damage. Real world sword rules do not apply to lightsabers.
This is a never ending loop of screenshots.
Lemme just head butt this thing that cuts and melts through military grade alloys like butter
Unless I’ve missed something, Shadiversity is apolitical. Claiming he’s pushing anything is the height of absurdity.
You've missed SO MUCH.
Oh yeah? For better or worse? Depends on who you ask, I suppose.
For so much worse. He has lost a majority of his original fan base.
Bummer. Since posting my questions I did a quick google and found several recent “what the hell happened?” Reddit threads.
While it seems I actually agree with him on some “controversial” points, not everything everywhere all at once (see what I did there??) has to be political, and it’s a shame seeing Shad get caught up in the culture wars
Lightsabers might be swords, but lightsaber fights are not the same as sword fights. Force users are magical space wizards that can enhance their speed and athletic ability way beyond what a normal human is capable of, and can literally sense their opponents actions before they do them. Obviously, they aren't going to fight the same way that normal people fight with normal swords. Such a fucking stupid elitist nitpick.
Keep the screenshot chain going
It’s more about Shad being a complete amateur that pretends to be knowledgeable but all his experience comes from backyard “training”. I personally wouldn’t give an opinion on the authenticity of Star Wars duels. I’m a military historian, major in history, and member of my country’s national Military History Academy. But I do admit that my experience boils down to drills and manuals, not really practice like HEMA (which Shad sucks at), but then again, the only duel I think is believable and “plausible” in the entire saga is the ANH one, since it’s the only one that looks like a real sword duel. And that’s it.
Reactionaries aside; why would anyone listen to Shads criticisms when he literally got destroyed by the internet because he couldn't take any. That AI art defending shit was so cringe
It’s interesting the duels in the OT while not high quality fencing at all, are closer to real swordsman ship than anything after that. The prequels started a trend for style over realism in duels, and that ship has kinda sailed
The lightsabers themselves still have bad combat when u realize ppl never try turning their light sabers on and off or their opponents off
Lightsabers are even referred to as swords in the originals and prequels (I remember Ben Kenobi and Dooku calling them swords).
The correct rebuttal is that the original commenter draws child porn, therefore should not be regarded.
If you know anything about swords then you know that every single type of sword is different, and a lightsaber is as different as a sword can get. Much better smarter people have talked about this subject, I have no patience for a fake expert that doesn't even know the basics.
Water and Orangeville Juice are different, but they're still drinks.
Weighted differently, makes perfect sense to rebut this. It's like watching FF7 movie and being like "here's the thing, I'm not an idiot, and I know a lot about swords, so I know he couldn't swing that big sword" lmfao useless dweeb behavior.
Fun fact shad has an entire anti-fan subreddit called shad watch
Almost like the Saber part of Lightsaber is in reference to a type of sword tho to be fair they are not Sabers.
Sorry OP but no. A sword that's effectively weightless isn't a sword that regular sword techniques apply 1 for 1. You want a fencing master to chime in, not shad the chud.
Shad is a complete and utter useless tool of a person. The hate here mainly comes from a douchey guy being a douche on the internet. Homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, you name it. Oh and he's extremely thin skinned and bans people that show even one iota of disagreement. The man wants an echo chamber, not YouTube audience.
I've trained longsword for HEMA. Edge alignment is a huge deal and does not need to be taken into account with a lightsaber. Balancing and hand protection are also quite different.
To be fair... in real-world physics, lightsabers would not function the way they do in the universe. The blades are totally weightless since they're made of pure energy (which has no mass); therefore, swordsmanship as we know it would not apply. That said... that's no excuse for the outright abysmal choreography modern Star Wars content has employed. To date, Revenge of the Sith has the most amazing lightsaber dueling sequence in the franchise's history.
You see, lightsabers aren’t real
This is stupid. Can we stop giving Shad the attention he doesn’t need?
Shad doesn't know ish about swords and has been called out by those that do many times before.
I know that this semantics game is pedantic, but they really aren't wrong. Lightsabers aren't what I would consider a real sword. They don't have a blade. What they call a "blade" doesn't have a dedicated cutting edge anywhere. Not all traditional sword fighting techniques are going to apply to this weapon. Honestly, I feel they are closer to that of a collapsible baton than a sword.
Lightsabers would not be used anything like traditional swords. This post shows how dumb you, Shad and everyone who defends him is.
Very much like but not the same. Please don’t throw around the dumb remark.
Love that anyone here who's being critical of Shad is getting wildly downvoted. I thought this was a sub for criticizing toxic Star Wars fans?
Swords generally don't melt through people and steel like butter though
I just want to say this, because I haven't watched anything SW in a while, and this is a concept I've seen referred to a few times. The concept of there being special armor that turns off lightsabers on contact is really, really, really dumb. That is all, see you all in another couple of years.
yeah but apparently it was I thing in the expanded universe of pre-disney star wars that disney introduced, can't wait for people to complain that they never bring stuff from the EU back even tho this exists
I don't know or care about that. If that's true, it was dumb there also.
It's an omni-directional bat of plasma. I can function like a sword, but really there's insane applications
"Omni directional bat of plasma"
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
I just think it’s an incredibly stupid waste of time to make a long video breaking down a fight frame by frame to try to convince people who liked it, that they are stupid and wrong. Or to give people that hated it some weird dumb analysis to reaffirm their belief it sucked and provide them ammo to use against people who liked it. What an incredibly miserable way to live your life.
They don’t function like swords at all, they magnetically repulse each other, burn at thousands of degrees, and can deflect lasers.
So no, they aren’t the same.
I lol at the people in this comment section trying to redefine what a sword is so they can say a lightsaber isn't a sword.
What does Anakin say in Phantom Menace? "I saw your laser sword."
It's a fucking sword.
Its not. light has no weight...
A sword is not defined by its weight
It falling into a category or label doesn't really mean anything, though.
If you want to define a lightsaber as a sword, fine. But it has properties that make it drastically different from most anything else within that category.
Here's an example: firearms.
Most people would think of pistols, rifles, shotguns, or the like. There are various methods for using those, but they're pretty similar in fundamentals.
But you know what else is a firearm?
Grenade launchers. Tasers. Anti-aircraft guns. Railguns. Mortars.
It's fair to say that the fundamental rules might differ between firearms of different varieties.
Then, we can take it a step further and use fictional firearms (since we're talking about a fictional sword).
A firearms expert could critique Halo and its huge arsenal of both human and alien weapons. And though it might be interesting, it would be pretty irrelevant.
I got banned from there for speaking the true true
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