Who was better?
I agree with absolutely everything you said and couldn't have said it better myself.
I vote for Goblin.
Goblin, Goblin, Goblin, that’s what you’ve chosen.
Goblin deez nuts!
The primary theme of Spiderman's journey as a hero is that he learns to empathize with the people that hurt him, his loved ones, and the innocent people in his city. Every time he thinks someone is evil he wrestles with their tragic motivations.
Spider man 1 was a perfect setup for this common theme and they really took it home with 2. 3 was cheesy for a number of reasons but, even 3 does this pretty well in its story arc, only this time, Peter has to go through the journey himself. In Batman, he dies after becoming a villain. In spiderman, he finds the strength to overcome evil conflict within himself and others because of his genuine ability to empathize.
The real question is, who's got a better moral quandary:
Batman VS Spider-Man
Spider-Man 2 really made Doc Ock feel like a Batman: TAS villain.
Love the Goblin, but I'm ride or die for team Ock.
Willem for pure enjoyment and unhinged comic performance, Alfred for depth and relatability/empathy. I would lean Willem, but I’m biased as it was 1 of 3 movies I owned on dvd for about 2 years and watched it religiously.
I would lean Willem, but I’m biased
Pathetically predictable!
Impressive!
We are who we choose to be… NOW CHOOSE!
"I am not... a.. guuun"
*launches into the air directly towards a nuke*
"Supermaaan"
😭
“You stay, I go, no following”
Well I’m sad now and need to watch this
IT TOOK ME A SEC TO FIGURE IT OUT. SAME HERE. CLASSIC
Were the other two movies you owned on DVD Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man 3?
Men In Black 2 and Austin Powers: Goldmember lol
Indeed. A song almost comes to mind. One of a hero who could save us, even though I won’t sit here and wait….
Is that the song with the Nickelback guy lol
And the Saliva guy haha. “ILL HOLD ON TO THE WINGS OF AN EAGLE! WATCH AS THEY ALL FLY AWAYYYYYYYYY!” Even the VHS had it as one of the early post credits scenes haha
God, grunge rock I wish could get brought back into popularity like it was in the late 90s and early 2000s
I wasn't born until 2003 but I've always enjoyed the music from that era, the rock music from them especially is very cool to me
So neither Nickleback or Saliva are grunge, post grunge alt rock more so. For grunge dive into Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots, Sound Garden, Silver Chair, and of course Alice In Chains
Ah true they are more Alt Rock. I like Linkin Park and Creed as far as Alt Rock goes
Yeah I will have to listen to their stuff a bit more
I'm with you there. 03 best year honestly
Definitely not for movies though...there were some real stinkers that came out then
Now that’s a great trio
Groovy baby!
Willem gave his entire heart in that performance (as he always does).
Probably not relevant, but I was reminded of Willem’s performance the other day in the best way. I was playing a game of Overwatch. Super intense. And right at the end the enemy tank said “GOD SPEED SPIDERMAN” and proceeded to rush the point and immediately die. It made me audibly laugh which is a rarity in that cesspool of a game.
There is not a single situation in life not made immediately better by quoting Willems Green Goblin lol! Put me in the grave and play “OUT, AM I?” As I’m lowered please.
You may have awakened something in me today.
BACK TO FORMULA?!
And then goes and becomes the Goblin again decades later without skipping a beat showing the same mania and vindictiveness and corruption to a new Spider-man
My dad doesn’t laugh much. He has a very specific laugh, like a seal. But it’s rare.
In 2004, the whole family went to the theater to see Spider-man 2. The room was packed and we were separated.
When Doc Ock’s tentacles took off his sunglasses, I heard my dad’s seal laugh across the room. That bit really tickled him.
For that and many other reasons, I choose Dr. Octopus.
Would he bark like a seal if Tobey Maguire offered him a poker chip?
Those arms are just so fucking cool
I never followed the comics but I want to believe that ock was translated better to the big screen than Gobby
the arms were easier to show into the big screen than the goblin suit and mask
Otto was both intimidating, physically difficult to defeat, smart enough to be a challenge and complex enough for audience to care
Norman wasn't all of those things?
Out, am I?
DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED?!?
It's you who's out, Gobby! Out of your mind!
If Norman was as good of a person as Otto before becoming gobby, sure. But it's pretty clear he was already neglectful and had a lot of shitty feelings towards women even when he wasn't the goblin.
He covers most of those, but he's literally the opposite of complex. He's as cartoon-y of a villain as you can get.
Plus, what was Goblin's plan after he killed the board? I'm pretty sure he genuinely won and the whole rest of the movie was his optional postgame sidequest. Ock's main threat existed the whole time
I noticed that too the last time I rewatched the first movie. Goblin is just a chaos agent like the Joker. He has no real plan outside of convincing Spider-Man to join him to "rule the city." Very basic comic book stuff, not that it's a problem. Doc Ock is a more tragic villain and actually has something he's trying to accomplish.
I guess that's fine when you say it that way, he's still a hell of an entertaining villain much like TDK Joker. Hell I never realized the similarities until now
Oh believe me, I still think he's a great villain and Dafoe puts on an all time great supervillain performance. His arc just kinda ends after he kills the board like you mentioned.
After seeing the movie in the theaters during the re-release recently, I never realized how nerve wracking it was whenever you would hear the sounds of Otto's arms approaching in the distance accompanied by the camera zooming with each impact. So loud with those theater speakers 😂
Peter could brawl Norman into submission but not Otto. The power-scaling is bizarre
You want to start a war ?
We are who we choose to be. Now choose!
AHhHhahhahahahhHhHHHHAAAAAHAAA
Wait, was that a line from Goblin when he dropped the gondola and Mary Jane? Or was it Hogarth at the end of Iron Giant?
I think both
I refuse to choose one over the other. They are both perfect.
Green goblin, dude was chaotic and performed to perfection
Willem dafoe, the way he does the goblin laugh makes it so unsettling and impressive that it’s stil that way when I rewatch Spider-Man. His acting between Norman Osborn and green goblin is so amazing and impressive, goes between the two so seamlessly
If we're talking which was better acted, I completely agree with Willem. He brought so much presence to the role, and nailed both aspects before bringing them together in the finale. An honestly remarkable performance.
Alfred did an amazing job as well, but I believe he benefitted from better writing and a better story. Ottos tragedy is much more relatable, and Alfred really sold that aspect and made us empathize with the character.
You can't do this to me...YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I LOVE BOTH
Goblin’s too iconic
Dr Octopus is also too iconic
You never know when a lunatic will come along with a sadistic choice
I know Goblin is more popular but man I love Doc Ock so much
Doc Ock
I gotta go with Otto.
From the moment I saw the first teaser poster of the film with Doc Ock standing on top of that roof in July 2003 when I was 10, SM2 was one of my most hyped films ever.
I followed every piece of info from that film's production until its release and it's still one of my favourite movies ever - partially because of Otto himself.
I prefer Goblin, but Ock was really really good still.
“The power of the sun, in the palm of my hand”
Norman literally nearly killed his own son just for his revenge on the company heads, scared the life outta JJJ and Aunt May, and tried to kill MJ cuz he had beef with a 17 year old 😭 Ock goated tho
Doc Ock
Don't tell Harry
In the raimi movies, Otto, no question. In No Way Home, it was goblin no question
Attaboy!
I love them both too much to choose
I think this is the only decision where this answer isn't a cop-out.
Don’t like pitting two bad bitches against each other
Both
My heart says Goblin, he’s just so deliciously evil.
kinda the heart choice vs the head choice
Both were Goated.
I refuse to choose. They booth are great
They’re different. They both were fantastic.
Don’t make me choose.
My favorite is Norman, but Otto was a better written character.
Doc ocks got a great story and personality but I absolutely loved the green goblin suit as a kid so my votes for the gobby
Norman made the revenge game personal by kidnapping Mary Jane and hurting aunt May but otto was just busy completing his science project where Spidey became as an obstacle. Otto was just a nuisance to Parker where Norman made his sole objective to hurt Parker.
How can you make me choose between 2 perfect options?
I'd say I preferred Goblin as a villain and Otto as a character.
Otto was the much more complex villain and the perfect counterpoint to the hammy (but brilliant) Green Goblin. So my answer is they were both great for their respective stories.
Doc ock is more comlex and more epic Goblin is intimidating , but he was more as antagonist than a developed character
Well all I know is I like Doc Ock more. But Goblin scared me a lot more.
Villain: Goblin Fight scenes: Ock
I mean Willem can’t be topped
Otto was played perfectly too though
But then in NWH Willem took it even further
Was just perfection
Otto is my jam
Definitely Doc Ock
It's tough to say. On one hand, Both were well-written. On the other hand, Both were masterfully performed. When it comes down to it, I'd have to say that Both just barely takes the win for my vote. It's not that I don't absolutely adore their contender, but at the end of the day, I enjoyed Both more than Both. Just my personal preference.
Yes.
Doc Oc.
Judging purely by the trilogy Id say Otto, although with the addition of No Way Home I find Dafoe's Goblin more captivating
Edward Teller is better
Gobbie just cause wilem dafoe and his performance in No Way Home.
The way he grinned as he was getting punched in the face while ominous music played in the low lighting then cackled menacingly in the theatres is forever etched in my mind. His lines are great too
And he was beating the fuck out of Tom, ruined his life!
Both are great performances. But being a hardcore comic nerd, I always had issues with how Ock was portrayed in SM2. Namely, Ock was not a good dude deep down who was influenced by another persona that drove him to violent acts.
Ock has always been the true anti-Peter. A bullied kid who loved science. An accident gifts him with amazing abilities, but because he was the child of an abusive father and overbearing mother, he didn’t have the moral compass to use his abilities for good, but rather to rule over others.
Early reports had said that Ock and the Lizard were going to be the villains of SM2, and it’s pretty clear they took elements that fit better with Connor’s and fused them with Otto.
Molina played his part amazingly, and all this will only matter to those that are hardcore comic fans, but because I am, it always bothered me despite the brilliant performance Molina gave .
Honestly, the one that fought Spider-Man
Green goblin iconic, doc ock better. In my opinion (unless we are talking about acting in that case. Dafoe all year)
I know most people prefer Doc Ock, but I just love Willem Dafoe as the Green Goblin. As a kid I was terrified by him, and as I grew I just really loved Willem as an actor. He’s one of my favorites.
A lot of why I love him is the voice. The mask has that unmoving face, but you get so much of Goblin’s emotional range from his voice. His anger, manipulation, rage. All through just that voice. That chilling, horrifying voice. And I love how Willem can just flip the script when talking to himself in the mirror or at Thanksgiving.
All of these are why I choose Green Goblin.
I can’t choose. Willem is peak villain. Doc ock was perfect and iconic… For these reasons I’ll say venom.
Tough choice… Dafoe
Both.
Topher Grace 😱😫
If based off the trilogy, doc ock
However i think nwh really elevated green gobby, if that movie is included id go with him
I dont need to compare em, they are both epic
Goblin straight up traumatized not only his Peter but also Peter One as well
this is impossible 😭 Spider-Man 2 was my favorite of all of them, but Willem’s performance has been so consistently excellent
Ock for me. He made me think about villains in a way I hadn’t really thought about before. Goblin is iconic and played to perfection nonetheless. Apples to Oranges honestly objectively speaking.
Hmm...both are really good.
Goblin gave me the creeps though as a kid.
That creep was Harry's father.
My favourite Raimi villain was Sandman. Followed by Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Bruce Campbell, Venom then the producers who told Raimi to shoehorn Venom into the third movie so they can make money off the spin-offs that never happened.
I liked Ock better as a character overall, but purely as a villain (and NWH cemented this further), Goblin takes the cake.
Doc Ock, 1000%
I love Willem Defoe and his performance but that Power Ranger costume annoyed the shit out of me.
I really think it depends on personal preference. They were both great in their respective movies and somehow they got better in NWH. I personally always lean a bit more towards Doc Ock, just because he makes me more emotional. The Goblin is just psycho tho and especially in NWH he’s so damn scary
As an actor, willem dafoe
As an character Doc Oct
You can't do this to me.. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I'VE SCARIFICED!
Well, Doc Doc was a more sympathetic and logical villain who had an actual goal in mind.
But green gold was actually pretty intimidating.
Otto. He gave us the best take from all three movies (and probably every live action Spider-Man movie):
Both.
yes
Willem, simply based on volume. He kicked ass again in No Way Home.
Alfred though was perfect as the tragic villain. Fight scenes in Spidey 2 are hard to beat.
Green Goblin. Alfred Molina’s take on Doc Ock is impressive but it still fails in comparison to Insomniac’s. Willem Dafoe’s nuance and pure insanity make this the most chilling version of the Goblin to date. I love it!
Doc Ock my beloved
Dafoe. True chaos.
I would say they’re equally good, but SM2 overall as a movie is peak.
Ohhh man! Love both of their performances... So... it's a coin toss for me!
Yes
Yes
as someone who never read many comics as a kid -outside of the occasional Ultimate Spider-Man my library had'
Willem made me fall in love with Green Goblin to the point he's to this day in my Top 5 MARVEL villains. and Top 10 Comic Book Villains
goblin was a more 'visually' interesting villain...and was lowkey hilarious, but doc-ock was a way better written villain
Dock Ock.
Ock
Both are good, but I personally prefer doc ock except in no way home Goblin stole the show
Govlin. Willem was and is just too good. Different league
Your out, Otto.
Green globen
Doc Ock hands down! No debate
Otto
Don’t make me choose… WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO CHOOSE??!
Octavious
Both have their values, but in terms of acting alone, I’m saying Dafoe. He’s playing two different characters in one role and it’s amazing.
They're both peak for completely different reasons you cannot even begin to compare em
They’re both perfect. Next question
Eddie Brock Venom
Doc Ock is more interesting, and the fight scenes in Spider-Man 2 are hard to beat. Ock’s likability as a human before he turns bad is what makes him the perfect tragic villain - one with a great redemption arc as well. I vote for Ock!