Is this an appropriate boundary for parallel partners?

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If Sarah doesn't want to be around Bree at all, then Sara can stay TF out of Bree's living space. James can start budgeting for hotel stays if Sara can't host at her place instead.

James is a shitty hinge. Bree has just as much of a right to be in James and Bree's shared home as James does and if Sarah doesn't feel comfortable, it's not Bree's job to manage.

It is James and Sarah's job to figure out how to make time/space for one another, which doesn't involve the unilateral decision to remove Bree from her own home for extended periods of time.

he was very insistent that asking her for space on their dates is reasonable and normal for parallel polyamory. 

Well, James is the one making an assertion about what is "reasonable and normal" for a relationship style to which he is a newbie, so I would argue that if anyone needs to provide documentary evidence, it should be James.

Of course I would also argue that when you've reached the point in your relationship where you need documentary evidence about what is reasonable and normal, the relationship is probably doomed anyway.

But having said all that, here's this for James:

"I have been polyamorous for well over a decade, I have extensive real-life communities of poly people practicing in many different ways, and I know NO ONE who believes it is reasonable to ask their partners to leave their own homes so it can be used as a fuck-pad by people who cannot stand to share oxygen with their metamours. Not one."

I’m going to argue another idea than most others.

I think it’s reasonable for James to ask Bree to make an effort not to be around/come home. Particularly if Sarah is there no more than once a week and if this is something she would ever ask of him.

But in that case James needs to be totally willing to say ok babe what did you forget? I’ll get it together and leave it in the car for you. Or hey no worries we’ll go out for ice cream, just text me when you’re back out. Or hey Sarah Bree is going to swing by and pick some stuff up. You don’t need to see her at all. We can hang out by the fire pit while she grabs something.

It’s ok for James to ask Bree to be on his team. It’s not ok for him to be ridiculous and inflexible. It’s even less ok to be ridiculous and inflexible because his partner has issues with the fact that he’s married or simply doesn’t like Bree at all.

I’ve been on both sides of this. I am a very well established nesting partner in one relationship and my boyfriend is married to someone I’m not at all close with in another.

The big question for me is if James is capable of asking either of his partners to be on his team and work with him from that perspective. That requires good social skills. You can’t just insist. You have to be reliable at being on a team yourself and you have to be persuasive.

James get points off for being an ass to Bree in this story. But we don’t know why Bree and Sarah fell out to begin with. Maybe that’s mostly on Bree. Life is complicated. But rigidity isn’t the solution.

‘If someone can not deal with seeing me they are not allowed in my home’

The issue is that James doesn’t agree and it’s his home as well. It’s very unlikely that James doesn’t understand Bree. He just doesn’t agree.

My live in partner and I both agree that the people who live in a house get final say on who is allowed in our shared space. If my partner no longer agreed to have his metas in our shared space then we wouldn’t be compatible to live together anymore.

If my partner was dating someone who couldn’t be around me in our shared home and my live in partner still was planning on dating them in our shared home? I would be looking for a new living situation immediately.

I think your polycule could benefit from venting/processing with someone who isn't involved in the polycule. It sounds like both Bree and James could be better hinges.

Maybe encourage Bree to join this subreddit or other social media polyam group and get advice directly.

[my poly and material resources blurb]

Most people don’t want to be in the next room while their nesting partner (NP) is boinking someone else in their shared bed, but a combination of noise-cancelling headphones and discretion can make it tolerable.

Most people don’t want to clear out of their homes to facilitate an NP’s boinking, but a combination of play money, a good friend network, interesting things to do outside the home and a willingness to stick to schedules can make it tolerable.

If polyamory is important to everyone they are likely to be gracious and willing to tolerate some inconvenience or discomfort in order to have the kind of intimate relationships they want.

If any party neglects being gracious they can expect to forgo grace and tolerance by anyone else.

If one of the nesting partners is monogamous… yeah, tolerating these things is unreasonable to expect of them. MonogamousPartner would be tolerating discomfort and making sacrifices but not getting anything they wanted in return.

In a mono/poly relationship, PolyPartner might not have the privilege of being able to pay for things like a hotel room that would make polyamory comfortable-enough for a monogamous nesting partner who doesn’t want it. I understand limited resources very well but I’ll go ahead and judge PolyPartner if they don’t want to accept the consequence of their choices, which is that they can only date partners who can host.

Same thing in a fully-polyamorous relationship where a hinge NP’s non-nesting partner isn’t being gracious and tolerant. I’ll go ahead and judge Hinge if they don’t want to accept the consequence of their choices, which is that they can only date partners who can be gracious and tolerant or can host.

When you’re dating someone with a nesting partner, be gracious and tolerant, host or pay for a hotel. Pick one. You’ve got three options. If you can’t pick one you aren’t going to be able to date people with nesting partners.

It is not ok to ban your nesting partner from their home. It's ok to ask them to plan to be somewhere else, but that means being ok with the answer "no" or "yes but I need to pick some stuff up" or whatever else the person living in that home who has every right to be in that home whenever they need or want has to say.

I've been poly for 13 years and like the other commenter have never heard anyone in my community feel what James is demanding is reasonable or fair or ethical. If Sarah can't even be in the same house with Bree for 5 minutes, she shouldn't be in the home where Bree lives. James and Sarah need to figure out another place to be or Sarah needs to grow TF up and learn to accept occasional discomfort. She should be beyond grateful that Bree has been gracious enough to agree to this request at all.

But none of this is yours to solve. I think it's fine to offer whatever opinions you find to Bree and James, but this is a Bree and James problem. If James is that convinced he is right, he probably won't respond to internet strangers telling him he's wrong. James and Bree should work with a poly-knowledgeable couple's therapist to renegotiate agreements that will actually work for them. You can suggest that and then you should probably ask to not be consulted on their relationship issues again. As Bree's partner, you can't also be her therapist.

Absolutely the fuck not. Nobody tells me to leave MY home and nobody tells me to take someone into my home either. James can stay at Sarah’s or budget for a hotel/Airbnb if overnights are that important to him.

If my husband's girlfriend hated me so much that she would try and intentionally displace me from my own home for even one hour, I would tell my husband he can jump up his own ass and they can go to HER house, and if that doesn't work for her then I guess they either aren't compatible for a physical relationship right now or they need to find a way to budget for a place that isn't MY HOME.

James is being a horrible hinge. Period.

Neurospicy or not. That's unacceptable in my eyes.

Frankly, I don't think my husband would continue dating someone who detested me so openly and asked such things of him. Not because I would ask him not to, but because he would question the character of someone who would act in such a way.

I don't leave my house for a meta, full stop. If meta is coming over, it's because I've made my own plans vs. because I'm just leaving to accommodate. Otherwise they need to go to meta's or find another place. I don't consider it my problem.

BUT if I'm out, meta's at my house, and I need something, I'm going to be as minimally intrusive as possible--I'd just text my husband and ask him to leave whatever I need out for me. So I likely would not go in the house because that would make me uncomfortable. That said, the idea that Bree can't *drop off a car* is bananas.

And if my husband is one of those that does "phone down while I'm on a date" then they will just need to deal with me knocking on my own door.

Bree can try to justify herself to James as much as she wants, but if he doesn't respect her, it won't matter. If I were Bree I'd just do what I need to do. Go home, grab whatever it is you forgot, drop off the car, whatever as long as you give a heads up. It's her house.

James is being unreasonable IMO. Not saying he's a bad guy, but this is nuanced. It would for example be fine to push back if this became a regular thing, but Bree seems to be making a good faith effort here to be reasonable. After all, I would also consider it reasonable if Bree said no one who can't stand to be in the same room as me can stay overnight in my home. These things need to be negotiated so everyone gets their needs met.

You’re 100% right. The person who lives in the home shouldn’t be displaced for someone else’s partner. Period. They either go to Sarah’s house or figure out somewhere else because not only are YOU not a hotel he can insist Bree use whenever he wants Sarah around, but Bree has the right to be in her own home whenever she wants.

This is a hard limit for me- my home is my home and I won’t even sleep in a bed that someone else besides my partner has been in.

Poly aside. Your living space is sacred. IMO when it comes to where someone lives, that person’s right to access their own living space trumps anyone’s dates.

Parallel doesn't mean "never the twain shall meet". It doesn't mean pretending that other partners don't exist. You can't simply pretend each relationship is monogamous, ignoring the existence of one partner while you are with another.

Parallel Polyamory isn't a way to ignore the problem of 2 partners not liking each other when it comes up. No matter how well you keep them apart, eventually, you're going to have to face the problem head-on. All you are doing is kicking the can down the road.

Parallel Polyamory is great for those who don't want to play an active part in their partner's dating life, but it is not a way to ignore it completely and pretend it isn't happening.

Parallel Polyamory can also defined as “A style of polyamorous relationship in which each individual relationship exists largely independent of either partner’s additional romantic or sexual relationships, and in which there is not an intentional focus on entwining the relationship network." But nowhere in there does it imply that it is reasonable for one partner (Sarah) to force a meta (Bree) to never be present or seen, particularly in a space that meta (Bree) lives in. It's also really not cool for Sarah to make rules for someone (Bree) who is gracious enough to allow her home to be used by James and a meta. It's not Sarah's house. But James also needs to grow a pair and tell Sarah she's out of line here instead of coddling her.

What Sarah wants is basically to create a DADT situation in which she does everything she can to pretend Bree doesn't exist. This tells me she isn't emotionally mature and has some pretty big feelings that she needs to work through, preferably with a poly-informed therapist. Ignoring them isn't going to make them go away. And James enabling this is really unhealthy hinge behavior, as it validates Sarah's feelings and unhealthy coping skills as being acceptable. Sarah's feelings are hers and hers alone, and when she uses them to infringe on someone else's rightful access to their own home, it's time for James to set a boundary and say:

"no, this is not reasonable for you to expect or for me to request from Bree. You may have some big feelings, but you're going to have to find a way to work through those and accept that there will be times when you and Bree will have to cross paths. I'm not asking you to be friends, but I do expect that you will be cordial and treat each other with respect, out of respect for me. If that's not possible for you, then we probably need to reevaluate our relationship."

Let's take a scenario that will hopefully illustrate why this is so problematic. Imagine Sarah and James are together and there's a car accident, and James is unconscious. He's taken to the ER, and Sarah goes too. Is Sarah going to pretend that Bree doesn't exist and present herself as James's next of kin? Is she going to not notify Bree at all and wait for James to do it once he's able? Or will she hope that the paramedics look in his phone and find Bree's contact info? And if Bree comes to the hospital, is Sarah going to insist that Bree leave bc she was there first? Or tell Bree she can't visit James when she might be there?

No one says people have to be friends. No one is saying Bree and Sarah have to spend time together intentionally. But there will be times when their paths cross, and if they can't handle that like adults, then maybe polyamory isn't a good fit for Sarah (in particular, as she's the one with the issues).

Ha, funnily enough this is a hard established boundary of mine. I will not leave our shared home because a meta wants to be in it without me. If I have plans elsewhere, they can plan something and come over. If they're cool with me existing in my space, they can come over. I will not specifically evacuate my home because someone is uncomfortable with my presence. Which my NP agreed was fair and appropriate and it hasn't been brought up since it came up the first time.

James is out of line and not being a good partner to Bree. She has a right to exist in her own home. He's also being a pretty terrible hinge overall, since Sarah's feelings are very bluntly and clearly influencing his relationship with Bree. He hasn't stopped to think about how Bree's affected by all this, just expects to lay down rules for her to get on board with? I know he's your friend, but really, really not cool. I hope he can see some sense soon and do better.

Brees house is off limits to Sarah IMO. Husband and Sahara can get a hotel or stay at Saharas. Brees husband is a jerk hole in how this is set up IMO.

So...just to be clear. Based on one of your reply comments, what I'm hearing is that Sarah's NP threw a hissy fit that Bree didn't want to sleep with him, Bree didn't make a fuss and just started avoiding the dude, Sarah then repeatedly ignored Bree's stated boundaries by forcing Bree to explain herself. And now Sarah is saying that she can't be in the same vicinity as Bree, and James is backing Sarah in this, up to and including telling Bree she can't be in her own home?

That's extremely unreasonable. Tell Bree she needs to stop being a doormat, and that she's allowed to inform James that Sarah is not welcome in their home, and that James and Sarah are responsible for figuring out another space to have their dates. I'm also questioning James's judgment in a major way for reconnecting with someone who clearly does not respect or give a shit about his NP.

Edited to fix names.

Hi u/DesmondDante thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.

Here's the original text of the post:

I'm seeking advice to help my girlfriend Bree navigate a tricky situation. Bree's husband, James, has a girlfriend, Sarah. Last summer, Bree and Sarah had a falling out, which eventually led to James and Sarah breaking up. Recently, James and Sarah reconnected and started dating again, but Sarah decided she no longer wants to be around Bree and wants to go completely parallel.

Now, whenever James and Sarah plan overnights at James and Bree's home, he asks that Bree spends the night at my house and not to return until Sarah leaves. This became a problem when Bree needed to run home last night during one of their dates to get some things she forgot and to drop off their shared car. She texted James saying that she needed to run home and he got upset, saying she couldn't come home. He insists that Bree can't be anywhere in the vicinity when Sarah is over because the idea of Bree being in the same house, even if they don't see each other, makes Sarah uncomfortable.

Bree wants to accommodate James, but she feels like he is displacing her from her home and prioritizing Sarah's comfort over her own sense of home and security. Bree asked if she was being unreasonable, and I told her she has a right to go home and be in her house. It seems more reasonable for James and Sarah to have overnights in a neutral space if Sarah is so uncomfortable with Bree's presence (though Bree pointed out that getting a hotel room or Airbnb for James and Sarah's date nights is not currently within their budget).

Bree decided to bring this up with James today, but he was very insistent that asking her for space on their dates is reasonable and normal for parallel polyamory. James is very much on the spectrum and can be rigid and unyielding regarding rules and expectations. Bree asked me to help provide resources to back up what she's saying to show James that his expectation isn't reasonable and to offer alternatives to forcing Bree out of her house.

Any advice or help provided here would be appreciated.

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James and Bree might "have a right" to spend time together, but NOT in shared living spaces. NP have a right to their own house, what would happen if she said no?? "Unfortunately, I have plans and am busy working on something that night. I'm not going to go out that day. If you'd like to see Bree, I would encourage you both to go out together."

James is absolutely displacing his NP for his own convenience. He should get a hotel.