Table winning hand, verbal isn't binding

Strategy

Played a hand yesterday. Betting and stuff doesn't really matter. Guy to my left had been luck-boxing his way to a big stack. I had top pair and checked river to him. He bet pot, I called.

He says "straight". I hold my cards and wait for him to show. There were 3 coordinated cards to a straight, board was something like 53QT2.

He turns over 45o for a pair and 4 to a straight.

I look at the board, and initially I'm like "are you serious?!?!" Then I'm like, that's not a straight. I table my hand and win with top pair. He said he honestly thought he rivered a straight.

Always have the winning hand tabled if you call. If I had mucked before he showed, I'm the one out of luck.

in pokerby GreyTrader

196

97%

1mo

illpoet

101

twitch.tv/illpoet13 tues 9pm est

1mo

Yeah I've seen this a ton of times sometimes ppl are just making an honest mistake but I've seen others who will play this angle when their bluff fails. Anytime someone announces a straight I make sure to see it.

GreyTrader

1mo

And the way this guy had been running, I actually believed him before he tabled his hand! He called my raise PF with 83s (they were suited!) with 4 players still to act and flopped trips.😡

illpoet

twitch.tv/illpoet13 tues 9pm est

1mo

Damn. I'd bet he made an honest mistake then he was running so hot he didn't question another made hand. We used to have a scumbag at a hone game during the boom who tried to buy every pot. If you looked him up he'd call a straight if he had a 4 card.

Lol I wanted to ban him but the other players vetoed it because everyone made so much money from him. He'd always buyin for 5x-10x more than everyone else and most nights he'd lose it all.

Basker_wolf

1mo

Thou must embrace the whales no matter how scummy.

DashOfSalt84

1mo

"haha, oh man yeah that happens to me all the time. Too bad 4 cards doesn't quite make it, haha."

Basker_wolf

1mo

My great uncle would tell me “almost” only counts in horse shoes.

TheRealConine

1mo

And hand grenades

egomxrtem

1mo

And hitting the toilet bowl

HornyAIBot

1mo

1st Degeneronomy 4:16

seth79

-2

1mo

You would ban a player just because you didn't like his play style, that's weak af.

Mynameisinuse

1mo

Someone who angle shoots constantly and lies about their hand time and time again should be banned.

illpoet

twitch.tv/illpoet13 tues 9pm est

1mo

Ya, this guy was gonna miscall his hand 5-10 a night. Every gd time.

throwaway283495

1mo

Any time someone announces ANYTHING, you should make sure to see it.

Safe-Reporter8694

128

1mo

Good advice you’d be surprised how many players are willing to lie about their hand to get a muck

OnTheComputerrr

1mo

Not to mention in low stakes people act like the showdown is a modified version of go fish the way they clutch their cards. Just table the fucking things already.

planetmarsupial

Only attractive at the poker table

1mo

People doing this in time rake games is the absolute worst

Actuarial

Can fold Jacks on Turn

1mo

The longer showdown takes, the fewer hands I play, the less money I lose.

Traditional_Bad_4589

1mo

Usually the same jabroni who takes 5 minutes to act on every hand like they’re on TV at the final table of the main event.

farttown87

1mo

some people think its part of the game. shitty scumbags but they let them play too. you will meet some cool people playing, but there will always be shitty people too.

buttons_the_horse

1mo

Rampage did this a few weeks back on HCL as "joke" and was surprised when the other guy got mad after he announced the wrong hand.

planetmarsupial

Only attractive at the poker table

1mo

Somehow I’m still shocked every time it happens. Total scumbag move and I lose every ounce of respect or trust I had for someone when they do this.

Appropriate-Tea-7276

1mo

And it's total trash behaviour.

farttown87

1mo

I table my hand at show down every time. let the dealer sort it.

fsmiss

56s is a premium

1mo

same. I don’t think anyone at a 1/3 table has ever owned me because they saw my cards at showdown in a previous hand.

farttown87

1mo

people are barely paying attention.

Arborgold

1mo

Take a second look, dealers fuck up too

farttown87

1mo

yeah but players love calling dealer mess ups. if its heads up everyone will call out dealer mess ups and you have cameras.

Bjrai13

1mo

If I’m paying to see their cards (aka “calling”), then I’m either seeing their cards or they muck

ItsSLE

1mo

This is a reverse free roll. One day you’ll insist on seeing their losing hand for information except they misread their hand and you lose a pot you would otherwise get.

WilliamBott

2/5 NL Tunica

1mo

Yep. This is why I never force someone to show a losing hand. I used to a long time ago until I came to the same realization you talk about.

If they don't show, they are guaranteed not to win the pot; if they show, there's a non-zero chance they have a better hand than they thought and will get part of the pot or all of it.

shazam99301

1mo

I always thought if you call, you can see their cards if you want, they dont have the option of showing or mucking.

GreyTrader

1mo

There are some people, mostly new players, who if they bet and I call and they say good call, I don't make them show. If they want to muck it's fine I'm not going to get that much info out of them. Probably less info from them than I would give to the rest of the table by showing what I called with.

But if the guy is a dick head, even if he mucks, I'll ask the dealer to show if his cards hadn't been washed in with the dead cards. But only in rare occasions if the guy had been a complete ass to me.

User deleted comment

1mo

GreyTrader

1mo

Exactly.

skatastic57

1mo

You (and villain) always have the option to muck.

wolley_dratsum

1mo

Not if you plan on winning the pot. And if the villain mucked his cards there, the hero wins by default without even having to show his cards.

ItsSLE

1mo

This is mostly true but some rooms may have house rules where you have to show to win the pot.

c-fox

1mo

I was at a table and one guy calls a river bet, the other guy was bluffing. The bluffer says "good call" and went to muck his hand. The caller then mucked, the dealer collects his cards, and the bluffer still has the cards and flipped them over, and the dealer ships him the pot. That one ended in a fist fight and both players got a month ban.

Garak-911

1mo

saying "good call" is not a fold. it means nothing. if the other guy mucked it's on him.

MontiBurns

🍰

Below Average Microstakes Player

1mo

Agreed. Don't give up your hand until you're awarded the pot.

ExpensiveBurn

Losing Player

1mo

There's a guy in my bar league who loves to pull this shit - "Flush", when he just has two red cards. SO often he gets a muck or the table just doesn't confirm what he has before they ship him the pot. It's maddening. I verify every had he shows down now, before I do anything else.

WilliamBott

2/5 NL Tunica

1mo

He needs to be banned for being a piece of shit.

ExpensiveBurn

Losing Player

29d

Well, he's the TD's husband, so....

Honestly, it's not he lowest reason I don't play there much anymore.

kuavi

1mo

I skimmed through the read and honestly thought he had a straight too for a second lol. Not that there aren't liars out there but mistakes do happen.

GreyTrader

1mo

Yeah, he was sitting next to me and we had been chatting, so at first I believed he made a straight because that's just how he'd been running.

He definitely wasn't trying to angle me, and I didn't rub it in his face.

Basic-Awareness-3978

1mo

100%. I can’t believe how careless some people are with there cards at showdown. I always protect my cards with a chip and when I turn them over at show down I place a chip back on top until the dealer determines the winning hand. If I win I slide my cards to the dealer with a one dollar chip on top of them. I see people throw their hands down all the time if it hits the buck the hand is dead.

Ready2gambleboomer

1mo

In Vegas about 20 years ago. Really fun Vietnamese dealer. Attractive 40 something gal with huge puppies on her chest sits at table and gets heads up in a pot with the button. Button holding K-J flop comes K-4-5 button bets lady calls. Turn comes J button bets again lady calls. River comes 3. Button bets again lady moves in button shakes his head and calls. Pot committed. The lady turns over 7-8 suited and announces straight. Dealer pushes pot to button and the lady protests and moves her 7-8 back and forth on the felt and once again announces "but I have a straight."

Dealer: "You no havea straight you have no sex."

Lady: "What did you just say?"

Dealer: "You need sex."

Lady: She's pissed now. "Tell me again what you said."

So the dealer looks through the muck picks out the six of clubs and moves it back & forth on the felt looks at the lady and repeats.. "You have no sex. You need sex for a straight."

We've been laughing ever since.

Fog_Juice

Winning $9/hr at 4/8 Limit.

1mo

Yep. I've lost at least 3 pots by mucking and if I showed I would've won them

OKC2023champs

1mo

I lost a high hand pot for $2000 because I didn’t show. I also never had played on a weekday before and didn’t even know high hand was a thing

FredTillson

1mo

off topic, but i recently (in the past year) thought I had a winning hand (I looked at cards after the deal and did not look again) called the bet on the river and turned over for a big nothing burger -- even i gasped when i saw the cards -- i misremembered and was betting the previous hand :(

[GIF]

GreyTrader

1mo

I've done that too. I thought I had T8 or something like that, and when I call and proudly turned over my hand and saw I didn't have what I thought I had, I just made a joke about how stupid I am and laughed.

ItsSLE

1mo

There’s a rare bucket list sort of play where you can call with the losing hand on purpose. If you notice your opponent just mucks every time they’re caught bluffing on the river, it doesn’t matter what you have so you can call with 5 high.

Gullible-Jello6088

1mo

This is great advice. Whether the guy is angling or sincerely misread their hand. Again back in 04 im just learning how to play poker. Big pot im all in and my opponent says straight tables his hand i say only two pair just about to muck and get up to leave and another player at the table says “no you don’t “”, you’re missing a 6. I went on a heater after that and ended up winning first for 750 $. at that time the money was enough to pay for a new deck. Lol

GreyTrader

1mo

Nice 😉

Soft-Landscape-8177

1mo

East Asian players do this a good amount, fwiw.

Taokan

Mediocre Poker Joker

1mo

The river bluff isn't the last street - it's the showdown bluff where the true pros stand out.

BrobotGaming

1mo

Agreed. Can be a fairly common angle. They announce stronger hand than they actually have. Hoping other player mucks and they muck without tabling hand. Always make them show before you muck.

green_griffon

1mo

I once straight up showed my hand (which was 3 of a kind I think) and some guy was so convinced I had a flush that he mucked his straight. Which sort of makes me wonder why he called my river bet but whatever.

Apprehensive-Win9152

1mo

Angle shooting- GL to u

Arcane_Spork_of_Doom

1mo

I usually make the same move when I complete the action: uncover and secure my cards where I can muck or show quickly afterwards, then with the off hand held palm up waiting for villain to shit or get off the pot.

dcrafti

1mo

If I call, I usually just sit there until they table or muck (thanks to Tommy Angelo for that advice), unless I have the effective nuts, and I feel like being extra nice.

Steinberg__

1mo

If you muck a winning hand that's on you so yes, wait to see what happens. I will usually double check my cards and the board to make sure before I let go of my hand.

MontiBurns

🍰

Below Average Microstakes Player

1mo

This is why I always just table my hand at showdown. 95% of the time, you're not giving up any useful information to anyone.

Infinite-Principle18

1mo

LA? Very common very play here.

WhoDat747

1mo

Played a 1/3 game at the casino a few days ago and the player at position 9 inadvertently threw in a white chip and a black chip when calling. 8 players plus the dealer were going to let him pull the black chip back but the player at position 2 balked and said it was a raise, which it technically was, the floor was over and the bet had to stay. The player at position 2 had pocket aces and the guy that made the mistake had a garbage hand; he racked up and left after this hand. Everyone at the table told the guy that it was a dick move.

NamCPDoan

1mo

Also (card room dependant) if you have thrown your cards in the middle and they are retrieveable from the muck then your hand is actually still live.

therealdarlescharwin

1mo

Rivers is like this.

floridabeach9

1mo

wow… i’m going to start saying straight even when its a 4-card straight.

thanks OP, quality info.