If so, why is this? As I gather there’s a fear of being vulnerable or seen as weak.
Behind this question is a friend asking without asking for help, and I don’t want to make it worse. I usually don’t offer help unless friend asks for it, but this time I’m getting a “please help me” message. Or when INFJ friend does ask for help, I don’t want to trigger anything that might make it worse. How does it work for you? Anything I should know?
100%
Yes
This and also, just feeling so judged. I know I was growing up. Like, I just couldn't grasp basic concepts so easily. To which, I know I can. Just sometimes, steps for things need broken down. Not be judged for it. Felt this since I was a kid. And even moreso as an adult. Cause people are like, oh your smart enough to just figure it all out. And when I haven't done so immediately, it's like we'll how dumb are you? I'm sorry, but I didn't have the childhood, where I was always taught alot of things. Alot of shit is kind of new to me still. So it does take me a minute to figure it out.
Yeah. I get this. I'm not really good at basic things like cooking, and sewing, or handyman things (well I wasn't until I had no choice to be) but I don't ask for help because I can usually do anything or get anything done or get through anything, but times where I have asked other people who I know who know what they are doing for help or guidance or advice and it takes them seconds to adopt an attitude that my abilities need to be questioned or to demean me like "you can't really do this? It's so simple, how do you not know that? Or I can't believe you can't do that?. Which I generally respond with awkward laughter to keep things neutral. Because it's true that I should be able to cook an omelette or braid my hair but I can't, well I couldn't, I probably could if I practised, but you know what I can do, I can adapt to any situation I'm in, I just learnt your interest in 2.3 seconds, I advocated for every single person I've come across today with my knowledge of psychology, sociology and spirituality. But people don't understand that my life is based on constantly updating my understanding of a bigger picture, gathering insight about whats happening with society with my own personal interactions with people so I can give that updated awareness to anyone I come across. They just think oh you're a deep thinker, who can't cook an omelette you must be useless whilst benefitting from my natural skill set.
Mhmm, cooking, sewing, and driving have always been mine. But I have natural humor that can help lighten the mood, can be a good listener, usually most dependable person most people know. But people forget as you said, what we naturally are good at, because we aren't able to grasp the other stuff. Forgetting there are so many different aspects that are important to our society, than just a few.
Exactly like that 😊
It took a while for me to see it this way. Or even really consider a generational thing. As I experienced this the most from my parents and older co-workers. Occasionally, from a younger cousin too. But I think that was more because she was looking up to me. Whereas, I never really had role models. I was the one that had and still am, to find who I am as a person and whom I'm not, and find my role, etc.
How did you add your enneagram to your flair?
I went on the website. Idk if it’s just the mobile app but I noticed there’s usually more customization options on the website for most subreddits. For example the r/scythebookfans page, everyone has their own unique scythe names as their flair.
Ooo gotcha! Thanks!
Ooo gotcha! Thanks!
You're welcome!
💯 💯 💯
I relate to this.
So a few different things 1. Consideration- I’m extremely independent and I don’t directly ask for help unless I am in a deeply detrimental situation because I don’t want to add to someone’s plate if I can help it. 2. Perception- I won’t ask directly but will give hints because i don’t want to put someone who can’t help/ won’t help in position where they feel required. I want someone to help out of love not hold it against me 3. Rejection- I’m afraid of asking and the person denying help which would destroy my relationship with that person because it’s then revealed our bond isn’t mutual
Asking for help might make them feel like a burden. Hyper independence is a byproduct of being let down time and time again. It's usually easier and less painful to just deal with it on our own. There is a good chance if you offer help, they won't take it, because guilt. Let them know it will make YOU feel good to help and you might be more successful.
Oooooh, this is something I hadn’t considered. Thank you.
I’m hyper independent so I can’t wait for people to help me when I can help myself.
Like someone else mentioned, I'm hyper-independent and it often doesn't occur to me to ask for help at all.
However, even if it does occur to me, it's almost as much work to ask people to help you out as it is to just buckle down and do it all yourself. You have to know what you need and how they can best help and whether they can help in the first place, then depending on what it is you have to communicate all that and coordinate... Gag me, I'll just do it myself.
But THEN, sometimes I get completely overwhelmed-- if I get to that point, I'm pretty much drowning and am so overwhelmed that I basically need someone to see the signs that I'm going under and jump into rescue me, unasked. And I mean, absolutely drowning, like severe burnout, can't get out of bed, back-to-back illness, etc. I realize this is a skill issue on my end - that ideally I learn to ask for help and not even let it all get to this point, but I never really learned how to do that.
The people who jump in and help me unasked are truly my heroes. I definitely don't expect people to be focused on me in that way, and I certainly don't expect mind reading, don't get me wrong. But people who hear my subconscious "please help me" messages and respond... omg... I love them forever. One of my friends noticed I was late to class every day and started setting up a spot for me (it's an art class and sometimes hard to set up when you're late). I'd come in late and haggard and there was a place for me to sit and do work, already set up so I didn't have to disrupt anything. And she did this nearly every day for the last two months of the semester. I feel like I owe her my life. Like, I'd die for her. I was having a really rough time (hence being late) and there's no way I would have had the capability of asking for that, and she did it. What an angel.
This is good to know, thank you. And I didn’t know even small acts helped that deeply. Will keep all of that in mind.
sometimes I just get to the point where I’m like “ight you know what, if I keep trying to do it myself, all I’m doing is wasting time. there’s someone right there who knows how to do it, so why not try to speed up the process and ask how to do it?” do note that I used to be hesitant to ask for help until I realized this thought process.
and I couldn’t care less about coming off as incompetent. if I’m asking for help, I’ve already tried my best by that point. if they want me to do it myself because I’m “smart” or something, that only shows just how little they care, even “smart” people by their standards can struggle with things.
if you’re some super genius, you should use that intelligence to realize not everyone has that kind of intellect, and even if you’re not, you’ll still likely be able to relate to the struggle of not understanding things.
I can’t let anyone know I can’t do this all by myself lest I seem weak. Even if it costs me money and means I have to suffer. I will never ask for help.
Growing up I felt that asking for help was a sign of weakness and the inability to do things for yourself but I'm older now (38m) and I've grown out of it... sort of. I personally love to help others, so I allow others to enjoy that feeling too, at least for the small trivial things. The big things I still try to do solo but it also gives me a sense of achievement when I do it myself, a bit of gratification, a "Yes! you're f**king awesome wooo!" moment.
I’m 35 and that’s my perception too. If I ask for help I’m weak and can’t do it on my own.
Ooooh, as an INFP I don’t get that high gratification for achieving things. I’m learning so many things from this post. Thank you!
Yes. It's difficult. Most often it's easier to suffer without. Sad, self deprecating trait. But true.
Meh, I can figure it out myself or google it if I lose patience with myself. People let me down so I won’t bother asking.
I don’t hate asking for it.. if it’s something I don’t understand or that I need to be taught.
I hate needing help with things I would prefer to do myself but don’t have time.
I do, and after some reflection here are some reasons why I hate asking for help:
** disclaimer - not saying they’re good reasons, they’re actually quite toxic, but I can’t seem to help how I feel **
I don’t deserve help (or at least I’ve made myself believe that I don’t)
“It isn’t even that bad, you’re being too dramatic” (gaslighting myself)
Asking for help would make me a burden and people will only help out of pity/obligation
Asking for help would mean that I’m too weak to take care of myself and that would make me a failure (feelings of shame, embarrassment, guilt, worthlessness, etc.)
I’ve survived all of my worst days alone so it only makes sense I’ll survive the ones to come (until one day I just don’t)
Asking for help would mean that I would have to actually confront and process these feelings instead of just intellectualizing and stuffing them down. Feeling other people’s feelings? ✅. Feeling my own feelings? ❌.
This overlaps with some of the others, but if I suddenly have to ask for help, people will be worried because I’ve never really done that before (not with anything that really matters anyway). I don’t want people to worry about me - I don’t deserve people’s concern, they have more important things to worry about, and knowing that I’ve worried them makes me feel uncomfortable, weak, worthless, etc.
I think acts of service is probably one of my love languages, because if someone takes it upon themselves to show me kindness by doing something for me, it means they really see me and they love me. Having to ask for help just feels wrong because they’re not helping me because they love me, they’re helping me because I put them on the spot and they’re too kind to say no.
Asking for help means I can’t be the “rock” for my family and friends. They’ll be afraid to lean on me and think that I’m too fragile to help them. The dynamics will shift from me being the strong, dependable person to them feeling uncomfortable coming to me and walking on egg shells around me.
This is how I feel. And I can't shake it off. It doesn't help that the only thing I've ever really asked for helped with was in the years of substance abuse and the help I asked for was always based on my need to appease my addiction. Which obviously now in hindsight was actually me sacrificing my dignity and self-respect. Which I can't do again. Even as I've realised has been at the cost of my dignity and self-respect. 😓
This is eye-opening. It sounds like a lot of it is because of Fe/shadow Fi. Would that be it? Like the INFP antithesis. Not point for point, but that it’s similar to INFPs dangerous feeling whenever we are not taken care of/being independent.
Thank you for so much openness.
Of course! I’ve always been super interested in personality theories. I’m not familiar with “Fe/shadow Fi” though!
Oh. Oversimplifying, Fe would be other people’s feelings as if they were your own, so everything related to not wanting to burden others. Fi, which is not one of your top cogntive functiongs (which is the top one for INFPs), is about what I feel, what I need, feeling heard, valued, etc. So they’re sort of opposites. Sort of.
Oh that’s interesting!! Thank you for sharing, I’ll have to do some more reading on that. I’d say that for me it’s definitely more rooted in not wanting to be a burden than my own needs/wants. Feeling strong and capable is a bonus, but being perceived as weak by others equates to worthlessness for me. If my loved ones stop seeing me as strong and think that I need help, they won’t be able to rely on me as much and they’ll be worried.
I also really struggle with depression and self-esteem, so I’m sure that also plays a huge role in my unwillingness to ask for help.
This was all very revealing. Thank you so much!! I hope your mental health improves.
Thank you, I appreciate that 💕! Being able to speak freely (anonymously) on Reddit has been a real gift for me and I’m always happy to share on here!
I would also say, asking for help equates sometimes to some people as now I ‘owe’ them. I do not like being in that boat so I just won’t ask for help.
What a delightful question, those of us with abandonment, perfectionism, and betrayal would say yes.
I for one drew the perfectionism card. Me asking for help with anything is the equivalent of a failure. Of course I know that's extreme and perfection is a not possible. I don't want to be anybody's burden and I unfortunately I hold anyone else around me to a little bit of it to a degree.
Me asking for help is allowing the possibility of it being weaponized against me or my trust being betrayed, so in my mind I will do everything I can to remove that possibility.
Hope that answers part of your question op. Oh and your friend maybe suffering from what many of us are too. Got some pretty good responses to look at op make use of it.
Ppl can hold it over Ur head and or take advantage of you and be hypocrites. Also asking for help and being ignored can be discouraging, then you can get invalidated and gaslit anyway and ppl start ganging up on you and throwing narcissistic quips. Honestly that's just being yourself and trying to function anyway, not just help.
How do I know you have genuine intentions of helping me and aren't going to mistreat me or get offended when I'm too much so to say either, especially if you haven't signaled your opinions attitude and thoughts on the matter somehow that you would help someone like me.
And then me throwing all that out there can just teach ppl how to manipulate us better anyway.
Imo mostly yeah. INFJs, what's your sun and rising signs?
im really bad at it because people have really hurt me in the past. And i get scared of having it happen again.
I have problems asking for help because I don’t want to be a burden to others. It’s silly because I have friends that offer all the time but it just makes me uncomfortable.
Yes, I hate asking for help. I'd rather be the one helping others. I think it's because I don't want to burden people but also I like to be challenged and figure things out or do things myself.
Personally yes, and there are reasons.
I can't afford waiting for the help to arrive when I can help myself. There are moments at work I have to wait for the photographer to edit the image and they kept prioritizing other people's work over me so I decided to learn photoshop and editing by myself. I finished my work much faster and I even learned new things.
I've been doing life on my own for 37 years..here I am hey! ;) .. I've made it this far so I better know how to be independent and self reilant at this point...ya dig?
Obviously because we're better than anyone else in the room /s
Yes!!!!
Growing up all those who were suppose to love and protect me never did. So I learned to rely on myself.
i ask help when i genuinely absolutely need it, and then i still get let down and just start googlijg about it for hours and days
I do all the time but it never is enough
Yes mostly but if I really can't figure out how to get something done, then I'll ask somebody. Thank God for the internet because it helps me avoid asking for help 99% of the time because of reddit, youtube, Bing, and until 3ish years ago Google had most of the answers.
But yeah the other night I literally fell, hit my head, passed out, woke up disoriented, and didn't tell anyone and drove myself to the urgent care the day after. When I told my loved ones they were LIVID. Why didn't you call me?! I'm just thinking well it's not like I died or something serious like that. Haha.
Basically, I'll ask for help when I'm dead.
It's the last option, but I will.
I do. I just learned how to do everything alone because I never got help when I asked for it.
It makes me uncomfortable , right now at work I can only ask one work friend and my boss cause she's really nice with me . But because I trust them. Any other coworker . Hell nooo. I don't feel so comfortable
I don’t like asking for help because I don’t like bothering other people and some might just disappoint me.
Like in group works in school, I’d rather be alone than work with other people because I think they’d just stress me from their laziness.
If ever I did ask for help, that is the last resort and it is because I had no other choice
In addition to almost everything else mentioned here, I frequently don't know what help I actually need... and I tend to suspect that no one would know either.
Yes asking for help sometimes carries criticism and unwanted advice. Asking for help is a last resort.
It’s more about not expecting to be helped in the way I would want help. Telling an INFJ ABCDE on what to do and they aren’t the most optimal steps to take requiring us to use Te to figure out how to follow your advice sucks. I know I get frustrated with that and I may dismiss the help as it’s not what I need. After enough experiences of this I’d rather go at it alone.
It’s not about not wanting to appear to be weak or lacking vulnerability
I hate asking for help because:
I don't want to be a hindrance to anyone
I already thought of the problem for like a week straight and tried to find multiple solutions from google and YouTube and self help books LOL
I don't trust that people will handle my vulnerability well. Too many times in the past I tried, and got burnt.
I don't like the feeling of "owing" people for helping me LOL
I don't want to be judged.
Well... As INFP, your main cognitive functions can always trigger INFJ shadow side. But we shouldn't need to walk on eggshells either. You'll just have to matter-or-fact respond to exactly what was asked, and think carefully that you're not projecting anything of your own issues into what you relay. Both types can be a bit blind to what others really need, but when someone asks for help, if we can dechiper exactly what was said, it makes it straightforward to try to fulfill that and nothing more and without any hidden assumptions or agendas.
Other than that, we all make mistakes, so just say sorry and try to see what else can be done, or if they just need the moral support.
Asking for help invites the opportunity to be let down and/or being taken advantage of. Happens enough and you lose some faith