Moving out of HOA and won't be paying for removal of railing I forced them to install.

Several years ago, I forced the HOA/management company to install a railing in the common stairwell up to our second floor unit. The mgmt rep talked about contacting their lawyer, so I did my research and quoted from the text of the Fair Housing Act that I believe it was a "reasonable modification" and that I hoped lawyers would not be necessary. Their eventual approval referenced covering the cost of removal should we move out. I didn't bring it up at the time, but the FHA also says

In general, if the modifications do not affect the housing provider’s or subsequent tenant’s use or enjoyment of the premises, the tenant cannot be required to restore the modifications to their prior state.

I can't wait until they come after me for the cost of removal and I can tell them to pound sand. They can take it out of the $150 "move out fee."

I'll also be on the lookout for any other way I can screw with them on the way out.

Edit because people stop reading after the post:

I forgot to include it was a second railing on the stairwell and it is for medical reasons.

in fuckHOAby Empty__Jay

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Excellent_Squirrel86

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How on earth was there not a stair rail in the first place? It's a safety issue.

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Yeah that's wild. Every insurance company I've ever encountered requires them.

OP

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https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/s/RRFehuPnhi

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Move out fee? What? Why?

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One last drop of blood for the vampire…

OP

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I'd like to know why, too. And they just raised it from $100 to $150.

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From an outsider's perspective (not living in a hoa house), it seems extremely abusive.

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not sure about OPs HOA, and I certainly don't agree with the practice, but there are communities that require either a fee or deposit to cover costs such as - if the elevator needs to be covered/protected, other paper or tarps put down. Sometimes it is just a money grab by either the HOA or their management company. A simple way to add money to the budget without raising dues on those who stay -- just easier to "tax" those moving in / out as a one-time charge.

OP

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Best part: there's also a "move in" fee. Also raised from 100 to 150.

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so it is equal for both, which makes me think it is not a money grab but a "cost recovery" of whatever it takes to schedule and prep your move on their side. Added work for the property manager and maybe super or handyman. And move-in, move-out don't usually happen o the same day

OP

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Yeah, they have to make new mailbox labels. That's about the sum total of what I saw from them when we moved in. There's nobody on site or on call and they don't do shit for anyone moving in or out.

It's 4 units sharing a common front door, hallway, and garage hall.

Miserable_Berry7782

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So they make an extra $300 every time a unit changes hands. Seems like an added incentive to be a crappy hoa.

Soylent_observer

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Years ago my wife and I moved out of a condo with an HOA and the allowed moving days were Tuesday and Wednesday, with a fee of a few hundred dollars if you moved out on a weekend. So it’s your own fault if you get charge a fee, they are completely reasonable… /s

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I see. Straight out money grab or legitimate fee towards moving expenses. Still, sounds really odd.

The_Poster_Nutbag

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I simply wouldn't pay it. What are they gonna do?

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Yeah fuck that shit I wouldn’t pay it either. It would cost them more to bring you to court over $150

Decent-Boss-5262

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Why would you even pay it?

KilljoyTheTrucker

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My question is what are they going to do if you don't pay? There's no property they have access to seize legally, especially for such a pittance. They'd be burning money to bother with small claims too.

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This is the answer i need, I’m confused

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There's a move out fee to take your name off the spreadsheet and a move in fee to put your name on the spreadhseet

Plane-Initiative8316

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I had an HOA that charged 1% of the home sale price as a "community enhancement" fee. To this day I have no idea what they do with that money because it's definitely not going back into the community.

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Community enhancement usually means "lining my pockets", from HOAs to entire cities sinking millions into a puny park or two while making the mayor really happy. Like "are you happy to see me or is that a lot of cash in your pocket?"

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So you're getting pre pissed off? Nice

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As often said in biblical times, he is girding up his loins for the inevitable bout of fuckery. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Luck favours the prepared.

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They will show them for being accommodating. Bastards.

MerelyMortalModeling

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Its not really being "accommodating" when you have to bring down the threat of law and then they double down and want to get lawyers involved.

OP

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No, not for being accommodating.. For being an absolute bitch and claiming it needed to go through their lawyer.

She's also been a bitch about other things. Including me disconnecting malfunctioning smoke detectors that went off continuously at 2am.

And for not letting me get a word on edgewise when trying to tell her why I did that. I literally had to tell her to "shut up and let me talk."

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Idk, I wasn't there, and for sure fuck HOA, but anytime I've ever heard someone say "shut up and let me talk", that's person has been the asshole in the wrong.

OP

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Well, after she cut me off the 4th time, I fought fire with fire.

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My limit is once and then I simply continue speaking in a voice I'm good at escalating in mid sentence and keep getting progressively louder until they STFU.

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Sometimes being reasonable just doesnt work, i know the feeling. But there was this one time...

It was my boss. He dont listen. Notoriously belligerent. As my boss, talking back didnt seem like the best option. Me submitting to him made it get way worse. He struck a special kind of nerve - and I lost control. I had very real intentions of beating his ass in front of the office staff. You couldnt fake my body language.

Took one step forward, and he got calm in like 0.436 seconds, and we continued as an adult conversation. I got the rest of the day off, and out of nowhere he just deposited $1000 in my account. He never fucked with me after that, not once. Like a scene from office space, i just started making my own schedule, said no to whatever i felt like, and nobody objected.

Not the outcome i was seeking, but boy oh boy when i hit fuck it, i really went all the way and it turned out very nicely

SubstantialBass9524

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I love that 😂 just the “oh shit” moment he suddenly went through

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Yea man, the fear in his eyes was REAL

Like, "oh shit my actions actually have consequences"

A triumph indeed

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Oooo idk man, ive seen some very reasonable people forced in that corner of "shut up, and let me speak" or even "(person's name), i need you to shut the fuck up".

Usually when its a situation where you are indesputably in the right, and absolutely need to handle the situation, but the opposition isnt listening, spewing nonsense, talking over you, and just will not stop. Oh man, ive been there myself and its not a fond memory.

But i completely accept that your experiences are both true and valid. This is my perspective and im glad to know yours

Smart-Stupid666

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Maybe one old man should have said this to another old man the other day

basementhookers

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Yeah, but they both should have been at Shady Acres instead of a debate stage.

Fun_Organization3857

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Making a required adjustment for handicap people is not accommodating. A hand rail benefits many people.

JohnDillermand2

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An extra hand rail I totally support. we had someone expecting the HOA to pony up for a really expensive stair lift in an area that just really couldnt logistically accommodate one. I'm sympathetic to the situation, but absolutely no way am I going to contribute a portion of the bonkers quotes we got.

OP

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And that's why I won't have to pay to have it removed. It does not interfere with others' use and enjoyment of the common property.

OP

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In writing it,I forgot to include it was a second railing on the stairwell and it was for medical reasons.

Clean-Software-4431

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I've noticed that a lot of the sub is a little clueless on ADA and fair housing requirements. Particularly those on recognized common interest communities.

Fuck that place and fuck the HOA. Let them waste their time and money and have a judge hand them their asses in small claims court.

Edit: corrected statement due to misreading ops post

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This sub has a whole lot of HOA board members that aren't sure why the rest of us are here 🤷🏻‍♂️

ThunderousSamurai1

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Did you just assume their gender?

Clean-Software-4431

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Wow, I could have sworn I read She. I must have and I feel bad about it. Apologies.

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🤫

Fool_On_the_Hill_9

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I wouldn't be too sure. If you are the owner and selling, they can include it on the resale certificate as money owed that would have to be collected at closing. You might have to sue to get that money back.

If you are renting, it could be charged to the owner who may be able to take it out of your deposit, depending on your lease.

Even if you're right, it isn't as easy as refusing to pay. I would contact the Department of Housing and Urban Development to get their opinion.

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Well done

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Sounds like you’re a problem. You had everyone else in your community pay for a second medical handrail for your use, and now you’re planning to stiff them on the way out too. You shouldn’t have purchased a second floor condo and you should have paid for a second handrail, YTA.

User deleted comment

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What kind of railing is it?

OP

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Cheap home Depot precut handrail on brackets. Not even properly mitered at the joint between horizontal and angled sections.

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The HoA had a staircase without a handrail? How did that pass inspection let alone get insurance coverage?

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The HoA had a staircase without a handrail? How did that pass inspection let alone get insurance coverage?

OP

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https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/s/RRFehuPnhi

Smart-Stupid666

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If they think a proper handrail ruins their aesthetic, imagine how they would feel if a 90-year-old fell down the stairs and died. That's really bad for your aesthetic. Blood everywhere, bad press, fines, how dare they.

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Yeah, that sounds about right. Good call, OP.

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I'll also be on the lookout for any other way I can screw with them on the way out.

Why? Seems like a lot of work for nothing.

Also, your housing provider has to be covered by FHA and Section 504 to not be required to pay to restore the modification (federally, I found one state that excludes it no matter what for common elements). Which means unless your housing provider is getting money for supporting disabled persons they can make you pay. Unless a state law says otherwise.

OP

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FHA also applies to HOAs and condos.

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But doubt section 504 which is needed to not have to pay to undo the accommodation (unless state law says otherwise)

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Why are you getting wound up over somethjng that most likely wont happen.

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As much as I dislike HOAs, the fair housing act and ADA do not apply to HOAs.

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HOAs absolutely are governed by the FFHA. Modifications to the personal space of the disabled person can be at the owner's expense. For common areas, the HOA foots the bill.

The ADA is a little less applicable, but if certain areas are available for use to the general public, even if such access requires a pass, they must be ADA compliant.

One_Recognition_5044

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From the article you link it says…

Generally, the ADA will apply to community associations when their properties are open to the public. This is true even if a community association’s amenities are open to the public only occasionally for limited events. A condominium association that has commercial units will also be subject to the ADA. If, however, a community association is for residential purposes only and the association’s property remains private and not open to the general public, then the ADA will likely not apply to that association.

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Correct.

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HOAs, COAs, Realtors, Property Managers, Mortgage Lenders and Brokers, Insurance providers, Developers, The FFHA applies to all of them. In fact, Anyone who is considered a housing provider or may have an impact on housing opportunities is subject to the FFHA. The DOJ successfully sued Facebook (technically META) for violating the FFHA for discriminatory advertising practices.

The only exceptions to the FFHA are; Owner-occupied buildings that have four or fewer units, Single-family homes that are rented or sold by the owner without the use of advertising or brokerage services, and religious organizations and private clubs that have membership limits (and even that has its limitations, for example a church could technically discriminate based on religion by saying a house owned by the church can only be rented to a member of the church but couldn’t discriminate based on any other protected class such as race or gender)

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Stop making shit up