Foden, Bellingham & Kane are playing in same space making England attack ineffective

On norwegian tv the pundits had a long rant about this during the half time break yesterday. Showed clips from the match showing how little the english players moved around when England had the ball. Noone went on any runs, just standing around, waiting to get the ball passed to where they were standing, occasionally dropping down into that same area. And then almost always playing it safely back to a defender.

It was quite funny how awful they were.

Palmer also likes to occupy the same space though.

You say not to mention any similar players, then mention Palmer who literally always cuts inside into the 10 lol

100% agree on the issue I see a different solution.

The biggest difference between this squad and previous "Golden Generation" squads is not individual players (ask yourself which current players gets in ahead of any of the starting Euro 2004 team) It's the squad depth. Look at the Euro 2004 full squad and every 2024 squad player could get into that, no one outside of the first 11 2004 squad would get into this squad.

Kane struggles to lead the press for more than 60 minutes. Ok. So change it. Have two different attacks, one for the first 60 and one for the final 30 (and let's face it that's normally closer to 40 minutes now with the longer injury time periods.)

We've got 5 subs. Use four of them as a pre planned tactical change. Say to the players that you know you're taking off, go out there and press like a madman for 60 minutes, don't worry about conserving energy, you'll be coming off the pitch.

Start with Kane in front of Gordon, Bellingham and Saka, Use these four to exhaust the defense, much like Sterling has done by himself for the previous three tournaments (his headless chicken running really messed up opposition legs) . Kane drops in, Bellingham bombs past into the space he's left like Musiala does at Bayern, Saka and Gordon hit the touchlines either crossing into Bellingham Kane or pulling back to Rice/Mainoo hitting the edge of the box and Kane picks them out before moving into the box. Defences get pulled left and right trying to deal with it. They do this at 90 miles an hour for 60 minutes or until their levels drop,

At 60 swap to Watkins in front of Eze, Foden and Palmer. I'd love to see a fresh Foden and Palmer playing balls in behind a tired defence for Watkins with Eze exploiting the spaces to pick up lose balls and dribble into. They can then do this at high pace and high press as they're only there for 40 minutes tops. Enough time to influence the game but not enough to exhaust themselves.

Rice and Mainoo sit behind this, Mainoo orchestrates, resists the oppositions press and gets us on the way. Rice has to suck it up and go full defensive midfielder. If Rice gets too knackered through the tournament Wharton can do this job just as well, it's exactly what he's done for Palace for 4 months and done brilliantly.

Basically we don't have to pick a best starting 11, we can create two very different and frankly offensively terrifying 11's that capitalise on each others strengths whilst using all the players in the same game.

Doesn’t matter when Southgate is playing worse football than Potters spell at Chelsea

you are just moving the same problem from the forward line into the midfield, which is worse

neither rice nor bellingham are defensive midfielders, they both want to get forward

foden and bellingham are great but they play the same position. GS needs to grow a pair and drop one for the sake of his system

I've been saying for months our problem is we have too many excellent players who want to use the same space. We're trying to shoehorn them all into a system and it doesn't work.

That being said, Kane's fitness is a major issue for us right now. At his best, he's both a great number 9 and a great number 10. But to quote Jonathan Liew in the guardian today, Kane is too good a poacher to just be a creator and too good a creator to just be a poacher, but currently not fit enough to do both. And he's getting caught between the two, doing neither.

The Kane you describe isn't the one we have at this tournament. It sounds crazy, but I do wonder if there's increasingly a case for dropping him. He's just so clearly not recovered from that back injury. He's immobile, slow off the mark, lacking sharpness in his touch, passing and shooting.

He just needs Calvin.

Anyone suggesting dropping Saka is on crack 🤦

Every attacking player we have (bar saka) wants to come central and get on thr ball.

To allow kane to do what you want would mean dropping foden and Bellingham. Because kane wants to play where they both want to play. Even just the 2 of them wanting to do that is problematic.

To get the best out of these players we need to be dominating possession and having teams penned in their final third, so players like Foden and Saka can play their intricate football with quick 1 2s around the edge of the box.

Neither them nor Bellingham is going to thrive in a team sitting deep and with such disconnect between defence and attack.

Kane could thrive in this by dropping deep like you said, but that's at the expense of every other attacker we have.

England is relying on a #10 that isn’t a creative or progressive passer. His best position is a false nine (90% of his goal contributions at RM came from playing this position).

Your best #9 is the world’s top poacher who also likes to drop back into midfield and play probing through balls to runners off the wings, but in your current setup you only have one true winger (on the right) who is being asked to be a provider of crosses more than an early runner into the box.

England’s current top creative and progressive #10 has been pushed to the wing (and until he recently went rogue) was mostly isolated. As a left footed player his favourite space to occupy is drifting in from the right to create space to play through balls or hit shots with his left (was named top player in the EPL because of this).

Your second best #10 only got his first minutes in the last game (at right wing) and almost won the game with his creative play.

Your coach, like the rest of the English media, bought into the false narrative (which they created) that the second coming of Zidane was going to carry the heavy lifting of creating play for your offence. But that is not in his nature; almost all of his passes are backwards or sideways. Which can be offensively creative if your starting position is in the box, but not in the middle of the park.

Kane isn't our best attacking player, he's our best goalscorer. And he's taking up the spaces in the middle and leaving us with no outlet upfront. The full system we are playing is an absolute shambles

Because we play with one winger, and then take him off for another AM, pushing another of the 10's to the wing and leaving our wingers on the bench

Not bringing grealish was a crime

Put Gordon on the left, Saka on the right and give the attack some balance Foden/Palmer in the 10, Jude can run from deep and Declan can hold

If you want an attacker to run in behind, play Ollie instead of kane

Or let kane be the 10 and supply the passes to ollie

Southgate’s stubbornness is hilarious

saka has b.white for support at club level.

walker has to stay back as trippier is rampaging forward. so saka has to hold the right on his own. decent job so far.

For me Burlingham has been absolutely awful in the last 2 games especially. Seems like he is trying to do too much and over thinking everything he does and I lost count of how many times he had a bad touch, tripped over the ball or went down faking injury. It's like he's let all the praise get to his head.

It's the Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard debate all over again, but this time the answer is far more clear cut.

Foden is a brilliant system player, but people forget, he was built by Guardiola, for Guardiola's system, and he's been very well managed to the point he has become a crucial player for City. But Bellingham has been a key player for teams since his mid teens. Birmingham City's star boy, slotting straight in at Dortmund, and being arguably the best player in the world last season at Real Madrid. He has been the best at what he does. Bellingham is undroppable, whereas Foden has spent a great amount of his career as a very effective squad player for City up to now. Jude starts, Foden benched.

Bad season or not, either Rashy or Grealish should have gone to the Euros. If Shaw could come on the weight of past performances despite a lack of fitness, there's no reason that shouldn't apply to two fit players, who have performed for England, especially considering the talent England have bought and haven't played, or seemingly don't need. As it stands, England have one proper LW, Gordon, who should start next game, but realistically will not.

I don't see Kane as big of an issue. A interchanging 9 and 10 can work well enough, with 2 decent wingers either side. Saka has done well so far, it's just England's attack has been so congested in that 3 10 mess that it's easy to understand Saka was the only outlet and figure out how to cut him out. Mainoo looked good when he came on because he can play progressive passes that bypassed that mess, and allowed the likes of Foden to be a proper attacking outlet rather than a playmaker. I saw someone suggest dropping Jude deeper to do that, but honestly not where Jude's strength is. Same for Foden. Bring the LW into play, and we'll see better results. Sadly doesn't happen with both Foden and Bellingham in the team and Gordon deserves a chance to showcase what he can do.

true, sterling on the left was a proper winger, eze would be a better replacement. For the right side, they just need a better midfielder, trent did better than gallagher, he at least made chances

The minute Mainoo and Palmer were on the game changed. Nice width to the game instead of overloading the final third.

Benching saka while hes england's most scary player is funny. Bench foden play him as super sub. Do a double pivot of rice-Wharton and play trent rb. Make rice go up like a 10( he used to do this at west ham) and do a double pivot trent-wharton.

Gallagher? Lmao

I'm confused - have you never been any of the Reddit football channels? 

This isn't wrong, but it's been said about 1,000 times mate 

Problem with England now is that most of the better team are on the opposite bracket. The Dutch have been struggling in their group while the countries which breezed past theirs (Germany, Spain, Portugal) are on the opposite side.

England are not gonna have a proper opponent until the final, and I feel like a bottle is imminent.

I read Foden left the camp to address personal issues. I am looking at how the team will set up if he is not back by the next game.

This is like going to the FM sub and reading the various posts of " help me with my tactic ? What am I doing wrong ?"

If your left back keeps cutting inside and playing the ball there also running into that space it clogs up the midfield then foden comes in off the left gets in bellinghams way, kanes runs into the left stop because trippier won’t hit a ball down that line so he stays central or comes deep. (This is only when building from the back mind u)

I think our movement is the problem. Hardly anyone making the right runs or been available for the pass. And I think that's Southgate tactics. These players all play for top sides that play proper pass and move, high press football. For England now it's like they don't have a clue

Change the formation 4312 bells rice mainoo cm foden cam and Kane palmer strikers. Defence is the same but hopefully shaw in Lb

I don’t think it’s width that’s necessarily the problem. They build up too slowly. Once you start bouncing the ball around the permiter the attack dies.

4-3-3 with Bellingham @ LCM, Gordon at LW, Kane at Striker, Saka at RW with Foden off the bench at some point to hold for more possession and control is the way to get.

Let Gordon run in behind, Jude occupy the left half space. Saka to do a little of both. Kane to play his typical deep lying forward role, Midfield 3 with Gallagher ads a box to box / running ability to match with Kane, as well as with Jude.

They are clearly trying to play Man City ball and it's the most boring thing you can watch on TV.

Non English fan here, Formation 5221 Pickford Rice Stones Guehi Trent/Walker Saka Jude Mainoo Palmer Foden Kane It allows Stones to step into midfield, Rice can play cb, Saka can have full freedom down that wing with Mainoo cover, Palmer and Foden together would be unstoppable

Frustrating because even you are missing the point. They’re all not “trying to play the same position”. They’re being pulled into that position because the players around them aren’t doing enough in their own position. Foden is starting on the left, ineffective. Bellingham through the middle, ineffective. So Southgate changes it, swaps them both. Foden suddenly is effective, Bellingham not so much. So he then changes again. Kane not active enough, drops deep. It’s all through tactics. It’s not hard, it’s not rocket science. You play Foden in the middle. You play Bellingham behind, giving him the freedom to roam with Rice covering him no matter what. You have Palmer on the right, why the fuck not have saka on the left, whip the balls into our main boy Kane. That right there is where England’s goals come from. Everyone can see it.

You lost in the first sentence. Kane is the problem. Should ne dropped for Watkins

Wow. Why don't you go manage the England squad then?

4 4 fucking 2.