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Yep this should be higher up I would be calling the fsdo
That guy was fleeceing people. He tried to fail me on my instrument check ride by straight up gas lighting me about my divert waypoint. I stood my ground, and he backed down. I learned later that we would routinely fail students on their first check ride to force them to pay for another checkride. Shitbag
If we’re both talking about “Cash” Money, then yeah he was pretty political about his rides.
Absolutely best comment.. so lucky I never got a cash money treatment, but I know too many who got swindled 😵💫
I discontinued my PPL with him because it got super windy in the afternoon for my flight. Made me pay $400 to finish the ride the next day. I passed but the school I was at never used him again.
Failed my friend on his IR and he quit. It’s pretty sad.
Took my checkride with this guy. I studied for about 3 hours a day for a straight month. I knew my stuff and exactly where to find things I didn’t know off of the top of my head. I passed the oral but was so stressed from him getting angry at me looking things up by the end of it that I failed a maneuver in the air. This guy should not be used for checkrides.
Hey this should be higher up
I’m not familiar with the laws, but if this happened to me I think I’d politely tell the DPE I’m not paying anything and just burn the bridge with him. Will this kind of attitude get me in trouble?
No. $500 to drive somewhere and go home is more than most lawyers make.
DPE’s easily make more than most lawyers.
Yeah, it sounds like they have a good racket going!
100% this. OP you should have paid $0. Please report this.
Man wished I knew this. A dpe took $400 for one when my medical name had one extra N. And then another 800 when he said didn't meet the requirements for my comm rating due to the night time nonsense
if they're reviewing your logbook then the check ride has started I'm pretty sure
If you're not eligible for the test then the test hasn't started - was my understanding.
Checkride hasn’t started till you’ve both signed the application in IACRA. In my experience that’s always been done after the review of your medical, drivers license, and logbook.
Wow this is the first time I’m hearing that! I thought it’s common practice for DPEs to take atleast some money if the ride is cancelled because of you….i didn’t know it wasn’t legal
Talking about good ole "Double Cash" Wesley Cash??
Haha maybe… the good ole “Match on dating sites with 18 year old student pilots from my flight school” Wesley Cash?
Oh wow... and here I was thinking he was only sleezy with money 😅
It's sufficiently bad that it amounts to loss of trust in the ability of this DPE to conduct a fair checkride.
OP should request a refund or cancel the check. And find a new DPE because of the very attempt at trying to profit from someone else's misfortune. It's unethical, in addition to violating whatever FAA SOP exists on this.
And if refused, I agree, OP should contact FSDO and make a stink about it.
OP wrote that the oral portion went well but that he flew to the DPE's airport. So oral one day and maneuvers a different day would that still be considered as the check ride has been started...?
He said oral PREP. I think he just means preparing for the oral with his CFI
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12d
Even after nine total checkrides in my life for both the basics and my types, I have never even thought of oral prep this way before, and I’ve said it probably a zillion times lol 😂
Can't pass up the opportunity to make a hawk tuah reference
Skyhawk tuah
That’s what op needed to do SPIT ON THA WAAAANG KNOW WHAT IM SAYIN
I had to re-read it. No he says he was well prepared for the oral. That was my first thought too (well you did the oral, so you had started the checkride). But then he goes on to say that the DPE got to the airport later. If he was there to have done the oral, he wouldnt leave for a few hours.
The post is poorly titled, and worded pretty badly.
I know exactly the airport and who that dpe. Based their. Two dpes on the field, I suggest using the one who’s been there close to 15 years, he’s hard but also very fair
Was that dh?
Hey at least you didn't fail your checkride...
Nothing you can do now, except learn from this.
Yeah I guess, and I did honestly learn from this.
All those guys that parked very close to the fence would turn the plane off 50ft away and tow the rest of the way to the fence to avoid exactly what I did .
I’ve bent metal before. I’m victim of my own hazardous attitude. It’s made me a better pilot and something that I can train out of my students.
It sucks but whateve’s. Gotta find the positives in life. It will lead to more opportunities.
The flight school I worked for the longest had a rule that you could not taxi into the parking spaces. We taxied past the parking space and then we would towbar the plane backwards and 90 degrees into the space. The flight school planes were all parked close together and many planes were near the fence. Having the rule that they must be towed into place prevented issues.
You have a good attitude about it, happy you learned homie! About a month ago I broke a brake caliper off during a smash and go. We all have at least one bad story!
Broke a brake caliper off! Wow 😵💫
All those guys that parked very close to the fence would turn the plane off 50ft away and tow the rest of the way to the fence to avoid exactly what I did .
Obviously, you have ultimate responsibility but would have been nice if someone mentioned this beforehand.
No checkride start. No fee change hands.
Yeah fuck that guy. $500 better be toward the check ride.
OP shouldn’t have even been on the fence with to pay or not to pay. $500? Offensive smh
OP was definitely on the fence.
One might say he was in the fence.
Possibly even through the fence
Next to, impacted with, on, and in, the fence. OP has a plethora of fence proximities.
OP was the fence.
I would have called the DPE and explained my plane is down for maintenance then hung up.
Am I the only one that thinks that the DPE ripped him off? We didn't do the checkride so I'm not paying you jack shit buddy....
I was about to say, is that even legal? Would there be any litigation if the student refused to pay the $500?
Another commenter mentioned that apparently it is not legal and a DPE in AZ lost his cert for doing something similar. I say void the check and use a different DPE. And I mean…do you really want to try a check ride with a guy who knows you just ran a plane into a fence? Seems like a high likelihood they would be…extra cautious.
I agree 100 precent but what dpe takes checks…
Mine has a check/cash incentive. I’m sure they’re pulling some shady stuff for taxes, but that’s none of my business. All I know is it was 10% off.
Most I’ve sent students to are strictly cash in case you fail then you can’t cancel the check.
That’s completely fair and now I’m wishing I paid in check to save a few hundred. /s
But no, they accepted checks, but I never really saw anybody ever use them. I’m guessing it’s just that checks aren’t as common unless you’re doing some shady stuff or you hate cash.
I know a few people who paid their DPEs with checks, might have been certified though.
I've paid for all but one of my checkrides with a check.
Unless OP goes to another state, every CFI and DPE will know about this in the next week
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12d
Or don't and make the fucker waste more of his time. And this time, don't pay him crap.
Welcome to aviation.
He could’ve started the ride and tanked him for even considering the airplane airworthy or wanting to fly after something like this.
A lot of DPEs in my area had a clause where they would charge you half of a fee if you had to cancel within X hours of the checkride for certain issues such as scheduled maintenance/unairworthy aircraft, improper endorsements/non-qualified applicants, etc. They usually required a payment in advance or at the time of scheduling so they’d have something to hold onto. I understand they’re losing out on possible income but it still sucked. Definitely favors a large flight school who can just throw the student in another plane. I wonder if OP hadn’t paid what the outcome would be. Not uncommon for DPEs to have a group chat . . . The chill DPEs obviously saw a lot more demand, but the other DPEs always saw a full schedule too. Sucks OP is out the $500.
You definitely shouldn't have paid the DPE.
The fee doesn't change hands until the checkride has began.
The checkride has not began until both YOU and the AIRCRAFT have been found to be qualified for the checkride - so all the logbook reviews for you and the aircraft, making sure you have the hours and that your XC was long enough, etc.
I'd also look at doing it with a different DPE. Your ride might be harder because you're the guy who crashed his plane when showing up for the checkride.
The checkride has not began until both YOU and the AIRCRAFT have been found to be qualified for the checkride - so all the logbook reviews for you and the aircraft, making sure you have the hours and that your XC was long enough, etc.
Every ride I have done the DPE has not seen the aircraft until after the oral, only the logs. My CMEL ride my DPE determined, against the IA on field, that a non structural screw missing made the aircraft unairworthy and charged me a discontinuance fee.
Something that is discovered during preflight is different I believe.
Reviewing logbooks is specifically called out in the DPE guidance for how to structure a checkride. I don’t know if a preflight is in the same way.
It’s to prevent the DPE from taking money from applicants who show up short of hours or with a plane out of annual or missing a 100hr inspection/time limited maintenance item, etc.
While the IA has input, it’s ultimately up to the PIC to determine airworthiness. It’s super shitty that the DPE did that, and that’s what the rules/guidance is trying to avoid. Super bullshit. However, if the DPE doesn’t feel comfortable in the plane, they don’t feel comfortable in the plane.
Dpe is wrong to charge you
If you’re willing I’d drop the DPEs name here so people know if they schedule him, that DPE will rip you off
Name and shame!
Kaplan out of KCCB it would seem
The DPE charged $500 for wasting his time even though you didn’t even start your checkride? 😂 The DPE robbed you.
It was even the DPEs home airport lol. The dude literally just showed up, collected $500 and skedaddled
And when the candidate was already having a terrible day. The aviation community has some real losers in it. (And lots of great people)
DPE: oof. That’s rough. But uhhhh…. I’ll be taking thiiiiis.
I’d be pissed if the dpe charged me $500 for “wasting his time” tf
Yeah this is wildly unfair
I have considered becoming a DPE, 10,000+ hours, yada yada, I would never do something like this. Unbelievable
Yeah I agree. Just a lack of character. Like c’mon man the kid going through it, have some compassion. The dude could just take up another checkride. Losing $500 on his $3,000 week won’t kill him
Just amazing they are out there evaluating pilots and making all that cash with that greedy attitude
he said it's not airworthy at all
That's some good ADM right there.
How I phrased it was, "I would personally not fly this aircraft without it having been looked at by a an Aviation Maintainance Engineer but I would still like your opinion " , he was pretty impressed by that and said something along the lines of well atleast you know your mistake and don't want to fly anymore.
I'm not sold on not airworthy that looks like the dent the Archer I fly came back with from a bird one night and continued to fly with for 6 months. But then again the "send it" comment came from my mechanic
Friend had an IA hold his plane up because of a 0.006" deep dent about 1in^2 in his weeping wing. Wing wept just fine, his concern was the aerodynamics of the leading edge of the airfoil, "Show me where cessna says that dent is acceptable". So we spent weeks back and forth with cessnas engineers for a stamped statement. Crazy....
I believe Cessna should have some interesting data on how much extra ventilation/lightening as well as spontaneous high speed partial removal in flight can be done to a 337 wing from the US Gov't large scale aerodynamics research program n in the late 60s and early 70s
Fairchild then went out to demonstrate that the results were repeatable on their own airframes and succeeded. The scientific method works!
Got any links id like to see that
At first I was looking for a link about some “large scale aerodynamics research program” then I realized you were talking about the Vietnam war
They tried all kinds of experimental configurations of aircraft there. Usually after anti-aircraft and air to air weapons use
The problem is not the silly little dent, the problem is that the wing is a huge lever and by denting the leading edge near the wing tip you have just put a lot of force through the wing attachment points. Most likely it is fine, but are you going to bet your life on that "most likely"?
He already basically said yes, he was stupid enough to risk it on that. lol
Yup, putting a dent or any loading out on that exact spot will often times buckle the rear spar inboard at the fuselage. That upper wing area above the flap alcove usually buckles upward.
The skin is the entire leading edge all the way to the lift strut area and the only way to fix it properly is to put it in a jig and derivet the entire wing.
It's not the wing attach points that typically fail (although they could be damaged), it's the aft (drag) spar that tends to get damaged. There's a good chance it's buckled from the impact, and if you look at the inboard part of the wing from the trailing edge you may even see a skin wrinkle somewhere on the back half of the wing surface. Even if there's no external evidence of buckling, it needs a proper inspection (inspection panels off, look around with an endoscope at anything you can't easily see, inspect the wing root for damage etc).
It's worse with a wooden spar though, damage like this tends to cause a compression fracture in the drag spar. There was a case over here where a wood wing plane (a Robin DR400 I think) hit a hay bale, had no apparent external damage, but when the pilot took off the wing came off the plane.
As far as aircraft accidents go this is pretty much as much as an eye opener you can get without shit getting really scary.
Live and learn.. Hopefully the wing can be replaced and the frame isn't tweaked.
work I let go of the break
I was too hard on the breaks
He could start by calling them “brakes”
True, but to be fair, stuff got broken.
Wait. You paid $500 for what? Ask the DPE for the money back or immediately call the FSDO. DPE cannot take any fee unless the checkride officially starts, which includes your review of qualifications.
Do we have a reference for this? This is all I’ve been taught as well but some people here don’t believe me. Been trying to look for a reference on the FAAs website but can’t find any
This should make you feel better. Was on a Challenger 604 and the pilots knew I have fixed & rotorcraft. So captain says come on up and sit jump seat for the landing. After a perfect landing at a super random, small non-towered airport I'm talking him up big time. Super greaser, total roll on, yada-yada. He is beaming ear to ear. We are taxiing to the FBO in exact same way you described. We are coming straight to the fence so he can stop and do a hard right 90 degree and then forward into a spot. As we are pivoting u feel the same thing you describe.. kind of a hanging/stuck feeling but then for us after it was stuck for a few seconds we then jerked forward. I could see the captain's face turn beet red. He scraped the hell out of the winglet against the fence. We had felt it get stuck and then break free. Nice big hole in the side of it. Guy was probably late 50s with well over 10k hours.. happens to the best of us. All checkrides are nerve racking.. don't think twice about it.. schedule it again and get that PPL.
You can probably buy multiple Cessnas for that repair bill I would imagine
As my first CFI would say “at least you won’t make THAT mistake again”
Trust me this is going to be a funny story to tell in the future. I can't begin to imagine the frustration and humiliation you might be facing, but this is such an incredible lesson learned that will make you a better pilot in the future.
1st of all: Make sure you are always visually scanning outside when you taxi especially in congested areas like this. Call out "clear left, right, center" at any intersection or anytime you're making a turn around the ramp.
2nd of all: YOU ARE PIC. If you are uncomfortable with the parking situation and you feel it might be tight, park literally anywhere else or shut down the aircraft clear of a "taxiing path" and push it back yourself, or have someone help you. There is absolutely no shame in that at all. Even if you do block a part of the ramp, it's better to have pilots wait and be annoyed at you, than to do what happened here.
My rule of thumb I use when approaching a ramp looking for a place to park, if I have to maneuver the aircraft, as in stepping on a brake, going full power to turn, then I'm going to consider somewhere else to park it or push the plane back myself. There is way too much risk when maneuvering an airplane like that in tight areas.
I am only an avgeek, and not a pilot. However you comment resonated with me in other life situations. Summary: do not let anxiety win and get you in a bind. Good advice here.
For sure. Flying has helped my driving. I do a more calm, thorough scan before backing out of areas etc and try to slow myself down and not rush. I'm still prone to those kinds of things so u/Adventurous_Dig8995 comment is great advice. Bending metal has been a big worry of mine and at 500 hours I know I have plenty to learn and hoping to make sure I keep myself and students safe in the air and on the ground and will definitely remind myself of those things if things.
This is true. In fact it might be the single most valuable lesson OP gets in terms of the cost in insurance premium versus the lesson learned.
And in fact, maybe some of it rubs off on all of us reading about it. So OP has done a public service as well.
Don't get complacent about leaving the safety of the yellow brick line. It's a trap!
Hello, DPE.
I have like ultra covid. Can’t fly today. Yes thank you for the consideration.
Click.
I'd void that check, stop the bank from clearing it ASAP. DPE will probably never want to work with you again, whatever. Sounds like he lacks ethics anyways if he wants to charge you for "wasting his time". You never signed a binding agreement anywhere before hand. Just penciled in a schedule.
Yup. This. Screw that DPE. Student has a mishap like this, makes good ADM, you don’t even start the ride and the guy says “money please?” First, he can’t legally ask you for it, and second, fuck that.
In general, if you didn’t sign a contract, didn’t cause someone property damage and they didn’t give you anything and then they say “you have to pay me money cause I said so!”
Your response should always be “says who? Kick rocks”
DPEs only take cash for this exact reason. And also so they can avoid reporting it on their taxes.
Find a different DPE. Dude is a scammer.
Regarding the fuck-up, it wasn’t fatal and could’ve been way worse. Walk away and learn. You’ll be fine.
Hooollly fuck you should not have paid that DPE. Glad you’re okay, but that DPE is a prick and you should tell him to go fuck himself.
Plane into a chain link fence? You have a future in United's paint department!!! Half their fleet looks like they flew the damn thing through a chain link fence!
I go out every night and rub the aircraft with a bit of chain link.....to keep the airfare low
Ehhh, shit happens. Never be afraid to shut down and tow.
Yes sir, lesson learnt the hard and expensive way.
I assure you you’ll come out of this a better and more well rounded pilot.
I think you’re overconfident in your abilities and thats why you hit the fence, and its also why you didn’t catch it and went up to 2000 rpm. Calling yourself a very safe and situationally aware pilot when you don’t even have a PPL yet is very strange to me.
Particularly claiming that status in the immediate aftermath of striking a stationary object.
Yeah i mean feeling a bump and thinking its rock and proceeding to add power shows lack of taxiway clearing and lack of experience because that would have to be some rock to just stop a 1700 pound aircraft.
My DPEs verified all of my paper work and the airplane’s paperwork before they could even officially begin. No money changes hands until that moment.
Void the check, and I’d report him to FSDO. That’s pretty shady. You didn’t “waste his time”, you made a proper PIC decision to not fly an aircraft in questionable condition. No different as if you had gone out there a the fuel truck clipped your wing.
He wasted your time by not doing the oral, or at least giving you the option to. One of mine was split into two parts (yes I know they want to do oral and flight together typically) because of weather. He gave me the option, I chose to do the oral and then discontinue until the flight.
I have a problem with your “super confidence”. Much much much much too early for that - it’ll get you killed. I have 1000hrs and I’m not “super confident”
Super confident…I crashed the plane.
There’s a lesson to be learned there, maybe.
And everyone is missing it trashing the DPE.
Underrated comment
This early overconfidence is so common that psychologists have a name for it - the Dunning Kruger effect
brakes*
This is just my opinion, but it’s something I’d give as a general life tip:
Even outside of the world of FAA regulations, if someone says “you owe me money for canceling our transaction” unless you signed a contract that said you’d pay in that case, your response should be “Blow me, the transaction was called off. You didn’t give me anything, I’m not giving you anything.”
Otherwise that’s not a canceled transaction, that’s you holding up your end (paying) of the deal while the other guy gets money for nothing.
Sometimes deals get canceled and that’s just one of the many risks in business where you’ll have to live with the fact that it might cost you $12 in gas money to get there.
Similarly: employees go on maternity leave, company vehicles break down, the break room coffee machine needs to be replaced. These are losses that you have to absorb yourself as a business owner (including a self-employed DPE).
The key part is his drive is not value he provided you, it’s something he did for himself so that he could then provide you a value. If his drive down to the airport doesn’t lead to him getting work in the form of a checkride, that’s his problem. Similarly, the coffee machine is not something you’re leasing to your employees, it’s something you’re investing in because you believe it’ll improve productivity. If it doesn’t, because it’s broken, that’s not their problem.
Follow up life tip: private citizens can’t fine you. Again, unless you signed something (like an HOA agreement or something that said you won’t smoke in your hotel room). If someone says “you have to give me money cause I said so”, your response should be, again: “Says who? According to you I have to give you my money. According to me, you have to give me your money. Let’s call it even and you can blow me and walk away.”
What it comes down to is paying people for agreed upon transactions or as the result of a contract is you deciding to pay them. Other people don't get to decide that you pay them.
Go very slow and continuously look left “clear left” look right “clear right” look straight “clear” repeat process as you’re maneuvering in tight spaces.
“That fence just came out of no where!”
Congrats on not failing a checkride or horribly embarrassing yourself around friends or family. I'm sorry the owner got angry with you, anyone who has an aircraft invested in training should understand and expect that these things happen. Airlines and the military have to deal with pilots or ground crews occasionally hitting things too, and they're considered the best of the best.
On the bright side, you will never make a mistake like this again no matter where you are in your flying hobby/career, and that could absolutely save somebodies life.
Screw ups happen, you're in training where they're expected to happen - don't beat yourself up, just get back up there again and have some fun!
Seems you are on the fence about getting your PPL 🥁🚪
I'm kind of on the fence about it ;)
Good job telling everyone involved promptly, and thank you for sharing your experience, it helps everyone learn together. As far as accidents go, I'd rather damage the plane on the ground than in the air - in my book, this still counts as an accident you can walk away from, and that's a good thing. Learn from the experience and keep going, you seem like you've got the right attitude.
I had A PPL checkride today and I was super confident about everything, my oral prep was as good as it can get.
I couldn't even start the checkride after being so confident. I consider myself a very safe pilot and very situationally aware of my surroundings (like traffic, obstacles, and aircraft on the runway/taxiway on the radio). This was totally something I didn't see my self doing.
Major red flag to begin with. (no offense) you are a pre PPL student, you don't know shit.
That "I got it all figured out" attitude will one day bite you in the ass and in your case, on your way to the check ride.
This might come across harsh but I truly wish you a safe and successful career but you have to approach it a little differently.
As a commercial pilot with 25 years of experience, you cannot think like that. Being over confident will get you in trouble or even killed very quickly. Eat a big slice of humble pie and learn from your mistakes.
I have to back ludacris_speed77 on this. Well said Sir!
You just learned a lesson that it seems the vast majority of GA pilots need to learn - they consider themselves “very safe” and “very situationally aware”; but in reality they are far from it. The more experienced you become, the more you should realize how much more we still have to learn.
Thank you.
Was scrolling down to make this comment. Someone taxiing into a stationary object and saying they think they’re a safe pilot with good SA is, literally, peak Dunning-Kruger.
I don’t mean this as a dig, but it should be an eye opener for the op. You’re learning, and you’re BARELY a safe and competent pilot. Slow down and realize what this means for your own self-awareness. You’re not as safe as you think you are. We were all there once, you don’t know what you don’t know.
Recently a friend sold his Piper Pacer (taildragger) to a young ut experienced bush pilot. The new owner planned to ferry it from its location in AZ to his home in Alaska. He ended up badly ground-looping it before it left the location where he bought it. The left wing was bent up at about a 30 degree outside the wing strut attachment. The left horizontal stabilizer and elevator were also bent up. The fuselage might have been twisted. Your little wing dent is nothing.
Was that at Chandler? I heard someone groundlooped a plane on their first flight.
I saw it at Gateway.
If you didn't do the check ride I wouldn't have paid him crap. And just used someone else next time.
New skin, new rib, hopefully doesn't need a new spar (if so, it's probably going to need a new wing). Planes hit things as pilots misjudge their turns all the time and get hangar rash. As long as you didn't clip another airplane it's forgivable.
But next time, watch your wing tips. One of my students has a really bad habit of getting ready for taxi and they just apply power and start turning without looking at their wing tips. Watch your wing tips all the time; that's where you're going to hit something.
If that bent the spar, it wasn’t long for this world in the first place.
I've seen an archer taxi into another archer and buckle the rear spar carry through. Definitely not out of the question
That may not even need a new skin. Depending on the extent of the damage (kinda hard to tell in one photo), you might be able to get away with straightening and reinforcing the original skin.
What kind of person does this? Let alone a DPE.
I feel like this damage is going to come back on your CFI more than you. He signed you off to solo and you are flying under his license. Hopefully the damage is minor but you should not b3 paying the DPE as no checkride was started.
"Have you had any incidents or accidents since you got your PPL?"
"Um, no"
DPE is a scum bag. He had no right to charge you for a checkride that he didn’t conduct. Report him immediately
If you're gonna crash, this is the way to do it.
No shit that’s not airworthy LOL
Don’t take this the wrong way, but if I was examining someone for a PPL who showed me this wing and asked if it was airworthy, I would seriously question their airmanship.
I dunno, haven’t you seen those ramen hole patch videos? That and some tape, and she’d be good as new
From a mindset point of view, just remember that you are a better pilot now than you were before this accident. You still have all the knowledge and experience you had before this. Plus you now have this experience or what not to do. So it’s a net positive. Keep going with flying!
Just FYI: If the leading edge is dented by a collision, the aircraft is not airworthy. You dont need to wait for anyone to tell you that.
Been there, done that. Seen others do that too!
I work as a mechanic at a small mom and pop GA maintenance shop. One day a customer was arriving with his 182RG and I was inside the hangar working on another plane. Suddenly, I hear a loud metalic BANG-cruuuunch. Boss comes out of the office asking WTF was that. I look around and realize the hangar door is slightly bowed inwards and I can't hear the arriving plane anymore. Walk outside and this guy had done exactly what you did here. He went to turn his tail to the hangar, misjudged the distance and burried his left wingtip in the hangar door, smashing all the wingtip lights and fiberglass wingtip.
Poor guy was absolutely mortified. We all just stood and looked for a sec before inspecting the damage, confirming he had only destroyed the fiberglass cap with no wing damage, and told him we'd have it fixed by the end of his annual. I thought the poor guy was going to cry 😅
Void the check or dispute the charge.
Call the DPE and let them know it was illegal to charge you and that you’re disputing it. And that he is fired.
3 things
You can’t park there
You never started the test so why are you being charged
Best of luck on your ride, I’d imagine (only a student myself) that this is something you can learn from and use to your advantage when you apply for a job and talk about it in interview
Can’t park there
You made a mistake and owned up to it. You’re learning from it and it won’t be an issue in the long run.
However that DPE charging you for a checkride that never occurred is a massive issue. You should look into reporting them. If you don’t then they will continue to do this to your peers who may not know any better. What other rules could they possibly be breaking? Do you want to wait to find out on your checkride?
If “time wasting” is $500, I wanna know how much the actual check ride costs. What with all the extra effort he’d have to put in…..
I haven't paid the DPE yet but he said he'll be sending an invoice of $500. If I decline, I feel it's gonna damage the relationship between the DPE and the school owner and I feel guilty of causing my school owner enough problems. Besides this, my instructor was responsible for telling me the correct time. He made the mistake and I have to pay for it. I don't really know how that works and what to do.
I did not have the contact of my DPE, only my CFI had it. That's how things work at my school to not have any confusions but yet here we are.
Do not pay that guy. You don’t owe him shit. Find a new DPE, he is taking advantage of you. You have insurance for a reason. Mistakes happen.
Do not pay the DPE if you did not start the ride. If he insists, call your FSDO. This is unethical.
It’s not your responsibility to maintain that relationship with the DPE. If the flight school wants to maintain it, they can pay the DPE, but you are in no way obligated to pay that DPE. You’ve had a long day and he should realize that
No way. I wouldn’t pay that DPE a cent, what he’s doing is unethical. If the school wants to preserve their relationship with the DPE so badly, they can pay him $500.
Don’t pay it, disable any auto-withdrawals or charges allowed from your account by the school, etc., this guy is literally going against FAA policy if the check ride didn’t start (according to a lot of the folks here at least).
If your school wants to maintain the relationship IMO it’s on them to pay him directly or send you a $500 check before you pay. Absolutely insanely inappropriate & entitled behavior from that guy to invoice this. Drop the name so everybody else can avoid him forever.
Keep the invoice. When you call the FSDO to report the DPE for charging you for a check ride he never conducted the invoice is evidence.
Do you see how EVERY comment here is "DO NOT PAY THIS GUY".
Let me add to it. DO. NOT. PAY. THIS. GUY.
The relationship with the flight school is not your fucking problem. $500 just for showing up?
Hey OP, you asked for our opinions on this so I'm gonna go ahead and invoice you $500 for my comment.
DPE has ripped you off, you need to look into getting that money back. It's a damn shame about the mishap but shit happens. Get that next test booked back in and get back up on the horse buddy.
Is taxiing without carefully monitoring to ensure wingtip obstacle clearance a violation of 91.13?
Asking for some online friends…
Contact the FSDO or have your instructor contact them for you. That DPE can not charge you if the checkride had not started. Wasted their time, fuck that. All they had to do was know the checkride was at 2, show up early at noon, say the checkride was at noon, leave and then make you pay. That DPE deserves no one's business.
Don’t pay the DPE dude. Seriously.
Fuck the DPE and his time. Also, don’t worry about burning a bridge, you can get a different examiner. Don’t worry about the plane, you have insurance for a reason. Hell, when I was at ATP I personally seen three incidents where students hit the fence, not uncommon (unfortunately the consequences there are not great).
Also, as it had already been stated numerous times, he can’t just take your money without starting the test. I can’t stand examiners with holier than thou attitudes.
That’s a certified oopsie daisy. Shit happens. Be embarrassed, learn from it, move on. Within a year you’ll be a PPL and this will be a funny story to tell (or not tell).
Ouch sorry man
When I was starting my pilot journey I actually had nightmares about some random shit happening like this on my check ride. Crazy to see it actually happens.
This is titled very poorly. You slightly damaged the plane a couple of hours before your checkride.
I approached the parking just like a run up, go straight up[ ]to it and full break and 180.
That was the problem. You were supposed to brake (apply friction to slow down), not break (inflict damage).
Seriously, though, sorry that happened. In close quarters, taxi very slowly while looking back and forth at both wing tips.
Call the FSDO
Sorry. This is a horrible lesson to learn. By the way, the DPE should not have charged you because the test had not started. If you choose to use him again, I hope he charges less for the retest than a test and gives you that rate.
It’s okay, my buddy in PA slammed his plane into the trees on a takeoff with the instructor next to hin
- You didn’t fail your checkride. It never started. Until the examiner says “the test starts now” you’re just having a day.
- Ouch.
- As others have suggested, call the FSDO. This feels very wrong, but maybe we’re missing something. The FSDO is the place to get answers.
- I have been very fortunate to not learn anything about the claims side of aviation insurance. You’re going to know more than me, please do share what you learn!
- At least it wasn’t a 787 going down too narrow a taxiway, so take some solace that even Part 121 captains who should know better have done the exact same thing.
- Try to focus less on your disappointment. What have you learned from this experience?
Don’t beat yourself up man. As far as the scheduling mix up, I feel like that kinda shit has happened to me a lot. If you “waste” their time they charge you but you barely get an apology when they waste your time with last minute schedule changes and poor communication.
All in all, a mistake you’ll eventually look back at, shouldnt haunt you since it wasnt a checkride failure. Just remember in the future, itll just be a highlight in the journey and a story to tell.
Get your money back
Even considering taking the checkride after what you had just done is beyond bad decision making. Obviously it isn’t airworthy also. If you don’t know that you are nowhere near ready to take a checkride.
I always wondered who the "sooner" was in, "it was bound to happen sooner or later".......
That’s rough, but do you really think you have such great situational awareness? You should not rely on introspection to tell whether you are smart or situationally aware, you should rely on evidence; this makes you seem like someone who has a problem with situational awareness, especially because you literally couldn’t tell you were lodged in a fence until you got out of the plane. I don’t know how that even happens. And you should have been able to tell just by looking at it that it wasn’t airworthy.
I think some humility goes along way. I have never claimed to be a perfect pilot with perfect SA, and I’m always able to improve because of that perspective I have.
Also I genuinely wonder if you should get a depth perception test, because you should’ve been able to see the fence you were stuck in.
Yeah needless to say, I don't think of myself like that anymore. And looking back at it I don't know what was going in my mind, I was just so focused on how to present my self to the DPE that I was maybe zoned out? I honestly don't know.
Tell the dpe that 500 better be retroactivley applied to the next checkride or youre contacting the FSDO
Name n shame, this is against policy and DPE’s are getting fired for it propel report it.
Should I really name him? Will I face any consequences?
You should at least complain to the FSDO. How did you waste his time? You flew to HIM. That costs way more than $500. DPE’s CANNOT charge until the checkride STARTS. He should be investigated and if he’s been doing this for a while he could lose his Creds.
Nope. Call your FSDO and explain what happened. You did not fly with him then. He didn't give you a test. Nerves are high and accidents happen. Sorry man
DPEs charge enough money for what they do…dealing with cancellations and delays are part of the game. No checkride started, you cannot pay for a service that never happened.
I’d say this isn’t as bad as looping a tailwheel and I know a lot of great pilots who have looped.
He can’t take your money if he did not start the test. The FAA is very clear about this. A Scottsdale DPE lost his cert because of this.