Turning down the highs to avoid ear fatigue

Being someone who makes heavy bass music, I've dealt with ear fatigue after sessions for a long time. Being very cautious about hearing loss, I always mix at as low of a volume as possible. Even listening at relatively low volumes, (definitely under 75db) I can notice some distortions in my hearing after mixing for as little as 1 hour. This will go away in time of course.

I've had a sense that this might be from the extreme amount of distortion and high frequencies that are in a lot of bass music, and so I finally decided to try just turning down the highs above 1.6k down by 5db using a system wide EQ, and lo and behold, I can actually listen and not have the same kind of ear fatigue, even at louder volumes.

My question is first of all, has anyone else tried this? Secondly, if you did, do you mix with the quieter highs as well since that's how you're used to listening to music, or do you turn them back on to mix? I feel like if I'm used to the quieter highs, turning them back on to mix will probably just sound terrible.

I also feel like this just goes against the general wisdom of trying to listen to the most flat way possible, but I literally can't deal with these high frequencies anymore from all the distortion/clipping, maybe I'm just getting old but that's the way it is.

in edmproductionby headtraumasoundcloud.com/nukage-1

83%

10d

kiba_music

I do this, except directly on my monitors instead of in the daw. I use Genelecs and use em with a high shelf, -3db at 10khz. I keep em like this all the time, and I’ve found I can mix better and get better translation this way vs. keeping em flat. This will vary based on what monitors you have and your listening environment, but make sure to check how your track translates to other speakers. If you turn down the highs, there is a chance that you’ll end up making your mixes too bright to make up for it.

ScrapKode

I definitely do a lot to control the high end so mostly cymbals live up there so you don’t lose the groove. I hear a lot of dance music tunes where you can’t even hear the cymbals because of the high end build up (too much FM/PM and not enough low pass filter) in the sound design.

TrippDJ71

Volume. If we can learn to mix low this will extend our comfortable time. It's truly volume. Pros will tell you over and over.

But ...I start my mix low then bout a couple minutes in ...someone's knocking at the door with badges.

I had just read a good essay on this I'll have to look.

Orangenbluefish

I deal with ear fatigue to an insane degree, most often due to high highs. IMO volume is a big one, keeping it reasonably low so your ears aren't constantly strained.

Also I've started taking more care to control the high end in general. Like any sound that's not deliberately meant to contribute to the "high highs" is filtered to ~7k-8k depending on the sound. Everything above that is just hats, kick/snare, or specific sounds meant to fill that space

IMO it's really easy to get caught in that loop of brightening your hight end because it sounds crisp, unknowingly causing ear fatigue, and then raising the high end to get that crispness, get used to it again, rinse and repeat

Gotta fight your mind by using reference tracks, high end compression/limiting, and other things to keep your brain in check

Djbadj

I will probably get slammed but...

These days I do a few hours sessions. I leave the DAW and watch YouTube/anime/play videogames to give myself a break.

I comeback, rinse and repeat. Sometimes the sessions are below 1 hours.

Sometimes I spend a whole day/night and get my ears less tired then before when I would straiu up spend 5-10 hours on a session.

Since I started doing that I started getting better results. I can hear quicker things that don't sound right in the mix. It doesn't have to be entertaining, you can just do different stuff.

Pleasant_Raccoon_225

This is interesting cause I’ve found myself naturally gravitating towards this approach to. The only problem has been sometimes I get lazy and don’t start back up on the mix again for a couple hours instead of a taking a quicker break lol

Orangenbluefish

Idk why you would get slammed for saying you take breaks lol

Djbadj

I would think a lot of people will call it unserious. But I found for myself at least that the less I stress about music the better it gets and the more fun I have.

randuski

10d

So, there is a big issue with high frequencies in a lot of those genres. Not to the extent that you’ve attenuated them.

But in a lot of cases, you can roll off at like 14k on most sounds. Snares specifically are a huge cause of fatigue. People boost the hell out of the top end of snares, and they’re also one of the loudest elements in the mix. You might not notice it when producing and mixing, but if you turn up the volume in your car, you’ll start to notice how aggressive that shit is, and how hard it is to listen to at a loud level.

There are even well known producers who have really aggressive snares, and honestly I wouldn’t wanna see them live because of how bad it is.

All that aside, listen at reasonable levels, and when you go to shows, wear earplugs. Preferably get some custom plugs.

Tortenkopf

10d

Distortion often causes aliasing. Especially downsampling/bitcrush is basically creating aliasing and other artifacts which are known to produce ear fatigue.

Analog modeled distortion much less so if oversampled and of generally good quality.

scoutermike

10d

Which monitors fam, may I ask?

James_Blanco

10d

Check and make sure your lows are mono’d. Wide sub/low end also causes ear fatigue

Kolterboy

10d

i feel like "mono your sub" is sorta a misnomer when they really mean "most good mixes don't have any stereo sub information" and sadly some people will have stereo sub information, collapse the two waveforms to a mono state, and be suprised that it sounds buns

James_Blanco

10d

The comment was less of a “mono your subs” advice and was more meant to bring attention to the fact that low end, causes serious ear fatigue when its widened

Kolterboy

10d

word maybe i'll be able to experience that some day, I wouldn't be able to test it out since i have only one sub haha

James_Blanco

10d

You can test it with entry level monitors/speakers as long as they can produce low end into your environment. Just grab a clean sub and widen/spread it for a couple seconds and see how fast your ears get uncomfortable. It was like a eureka moment for me because i had never really understood what the big deal of not mono-ing your low end was about until i my ears were begging me to stop lol. Not saying this is the sole reason for mono lows but i feel its a part of the reason

WonderfulShelter

10d

What hz do you mono your subs?

SPACE_SHAMAN

10d

120hz and below

WonderfulShelter

huh, I've been doing it around 75-115hz for each bass patch, and then at like 75hz on the master. I kinda like having a wide lush 50-75hz so systems catch it before they roll off hard.

I used to mono them on the master at 115hz, but yeah.

thisiswhocares

10d

while turning down is always good, try different monitors. I definitely got more ear fatigue on my HS5's compared to my Adam A7X's. The ribbon tweeter on the adam stays clean up to like 50khz so you don't get the harmonic distortion that a regular tweeter will give you. I've been able to work significantly longer without my ears hurting on those monitors.

scoutermike

10d

What about compared to the larger HS8’s? I thought the ribbon tweeters in Adam’s were considered brighter. Wouldn’t that be bad for op?

thisiswhocares

10d

They are pretty bright, but they're also super clear without the harmonic distortion that I'm betting is the problem. The HS8 and HS5 use the same tweeter I believe.

MemoryVice

10d

Distorted frequencies trash your ears more easily than clean ones. I also can get ear issues when mixing this particular rock band—they recorded themselves in their basement and the drummer’s crash cymbal was some kind of cheap trash with this horribly shredded tone. Ears dead after a short time, even at low volumes. Contrast that with this funk band where the drummer had good cymbals and it was all recorded cleanly, and I can work on it for hours with no issue.

So if you’re intentionally distorting your high frequencies, that could be the cause.

greenhavendjs

10d

We often work with a low cut or shelf at 40hz and a high cut at 15khz into a limiter to protect against unwanted overages on the master. You don’t need to be exposing yourself to extreme high and low information for hours and hours.

WonderfulShelter

10d

How are you doing that high cut into limiter exactly?

greenhavendjs

10d

Any EQ with low and/or high cut will do. Then any limiter, (which would be the last plugin on the master) to catch signals going above 0db. Make sure you’re mixing with enough collective headroom that your mix isn’t reaching 0db before you do this.

WonderfulShelter

oh word, I already do this then. thanks!

TotSaM-

10d

Mixing should definitely be done at conversational volume levels. That being said I think no matter how low you go your ears will inevitably see some "fatigue" over prolonged periods of time working on music, even if it's not super loud. In my experience even if my ears aren't fatigued from loud volume, their still fatigued in the sense that I have been using them in a focused manner for so long.

Definitely good to take breaks. Refresh a little bit and come back to your project with fresh ears.

ScrapKode

This is sound advice (don’t punish me)

TotSaM-

This guy.....

ScrapKode

It really is good advice though.

TotSaM-

Sound, some people may even say.

ScrapKode

It’s sound advice! ™️

GurnieBros

10d

Are you using headphones?

Im not sure the exact reasons why, but headphones seem to cause more ear fatigue while also coaxing the listener into turning it up as a session goes on. Especially common with closed back headphones. I find I dont have this issue with speakers

ChowDubs

10d

Instead just turn down the volume. The best mixes are done at quiet levels imo

kagomecomplex

Fletcher Munson means you have to mix at low, mid and decently loud levels all at some point, especially if it’s soundsystem music meant to be played at crazy volume

headtrauma

soundcloud.com/nukage-1

10d

The last 3 years I've tried that, it did not stop the ear fatigue (yes I know it sounds weird)

ChowDubs

-1

10d

I highly doubt that. And your ears are going to fatigue no matter what. No matter how soft or how much you pull back. Our ears change how we perceive over time.

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10d

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