If I showed people of early 1900 a modern super bike, how would they react? will they be able to re create it?
If I travel back to the early 1900s and showed them a modern dura-ace Di2 road bike, how will they react?
That's just a long day, though.
About 8ish hours
Your estimate is about right.
Did you see the state of the roads a century ago?
Actually, probably more time then, as modern tyres would be shredded on 100 year old roads, and nobody a century ago had an impact driver to get the rear off and on again. (Look at me carrying 3 spare tyres crossed over my shoulders, and a patch kit in my front facing jersey pocket)
The roads are not automatically 100 years old if you travel backwards in time. Actually they will 100 years younger than now...
Damn elves…
Metric or Imperial?
"It's forbidden"
- Henri Desgrange
This is the only answer. He wanted to ban the freehub when it came to the tour.
When I found that out it really reshaped my perspective of the TdF. Its raison d'être isn't altruistic bike racing, it's controversy.
Big Sport has been a business since the rise of mass media with national newspapers and magazines. It's always been about money. Hell, the Olympics were started largely because a bunch of old rich people were mad about how commercialized sports had become and wanted to create a pure and non-commercial alternative. How's that going?
But I'll give credit to the TdF, even in their official history they acknowledge that the TdF was created to sell copies of L'Auto newspaper.
Commercialization is what has enabled athletes to have their sport as a significant priority in life.
Look at the pace of improvement in athlete development, participation rates, and ultimately athletic performance over the decades.
I’d love to ask those old rich people how much they’re willing to contribute to athletes between Olympics.
Thus, Calvinball is the One True Sport.
Cue the story Phil Liggett always tells about the guy who broke his fork on Tourmalet, had to carry his bike halfway down the mountain to a forge, had to have the blacksmith tell him how to repair it (since assistance from somebody else was illegal), fixed it himself in the blacksmith's shop, and then got disqualified because the blacksmith's son worked the bellows.
It was Eugene Christophe at the 1913 Tour… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugène_Christophe
It's sadism.
I kinda enjoy watching other people suffering who do it voluntarily.
Yeah, I remember reading how he wanted the original TdF to be a quite literal last man standing wins type race.
And selling newspapers. Through controversy if it helps.
Henri would run him off the road.
I took my mountain bike to China in the late 80s and it felt like landing Concorde on the outer banks 100 years ago. The fat tyres, 18 gears and basic handlebar suspension caused lots of interest.
I cycle toured France in 1990 on my mountain bike and people would stare at it.. « Vélo toutes terrain » or VTT, as they called them were still relatively new then
And more interesting perhaps what would an equivalent analog bike look like in 2050? Self truing wheels? Self repairing tyres and inner tubes? Panniers following overhead by drone?
Electronic brakes
You'd probably kick off world tour one
KOM every segment
I don't know. Those bikers back then had to be pretty strong/insane. They managed some pretty intense riding. Also the average stage distance was 400km. I think you would flat out due to the road conditions the battery would die in the middle as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1903_Tour_de_France for the numbers.
Holy fuckin shit, they were super bikers back then wtf. It's not like they ride 400km on a day, they do on bicycles from 1903!!
This is part of my response when people ask if their modern gravel rig can handle a 25k chipseal route… Look at early Tours and their bikes!!
Lachlan Morton is a time traveler from that era and was bored with the modern Tour.
They didn't have any problesm with my hoverboard in the 50s
But, you will change the future and/or set off a parallel version of events,....however, if you went back to the 1650, they would say it's the work of the devil and all kinds of horrid things will happen.
Doesn't make sense to go back to 1650 with anything but XTR tho.
Not really, you could sell them the idea thats some new invention from the far east. As long as you dont try to explain how exactly it works you should be fine.
You sound experienced, like you've dealt with this before.
People still say electronic shifting is the work of the devil
Maybe it is.......evil is everywhere :D and it is very naughty :)
Burn the witch.
But, how do we knoooowww she’s a Witch?
SHE TURNED MY DRIVETRAIN INTO A NEWT!
Drop her in the TdF and see if she can win 35 stages ;)
They dressed me like this
Hopefully the drivetrain doesn’t weigh as much as a duck.
without transistors and microchips, and batteries technologies, no.
What if you even brought back a current model mechanical 105 drivetrain back to the early 20th century?
A derailleur is not a complex thing to understand.
We've been building complex things way before the 20th century (clocks, engines with gears... )
Show a modern derailleur to someone 100 years ago who actually built mechanical components and they'd drool at the precision.
Tell them that it wasn't custom, hand fitted and they'd shit their pants.
Show it to whatever equivalent to a materials engineer and they'd call you a witch.
Interchangeable parts manufacturing had been around for 100 years already by the 1920's.
https://www.history.com/topics/inventions/interchangeable-parts
I still think that facebook and google are run using witchcraft, its just so much harder to gather people with pitchforks to burn them at the stake.
Show a modern derailleur to someone 100 years ago who actually built mechanical components and they'd drool at the precision.
Not really, they're really not all that special.
And you really don't need exotic materials until you're trying to shave grams.
Economically making a 12 speed chain with decent life might be more challenging, but I wouldn't put it past industry of the era to do fairly well if determined.
Some lathe operators were still forging (as in, blacksmithing) their own tools 100 years ago. M1 HSS wasn't even invented yet.
What are they going to assume the plastics are? Bakelite?
Some lathe operators were still forging (as in, blacksmithing) their own tools 100 years ago.
Not in ordinary manufacturing cases they weren't - specialization was already a thing.
You don't seem to understand how industrial the world of 1900 (or for your 100 years, 1924) actually was.
Intricate mechanism were quite common in the era before electronic computing and controls.
What are they going to assume the plastics are? Bakelite?
You don't actually need plastics to make a great derailleur
They might be the most common choice for jockey wheels but are hardly the only way it is done, even today.
OP was talking about modern equipment, not a generic derailleur.
And everyone seems to be assuming that the ability for machinists to make complex mechanisms means they can make anything.
They literally had to either hand work complex curved shapes or leave them as cast. Anyone of that era would, again, crap their pants at the idea that we can mass produce just the cosmetic shapes of a modern derailleur.
A derailleur might look like a derailleur conceptually, but manufacturing didn't stand still for 100 years. At all.
And everyone seems to be assuming that the ability for machinists to make complex mechanisms means they can make anything.
Your ignorance is showing - you refuse to consider the reality that the sorts of things they were routinely making accomplished far more complex and precision movements than is needed to achieve the functionality of a 12 speed derailleur.
Since you're obviously going to do nothing but continue proving your ignorance, it's time to end this.
100 years ago it was 1924, not the Middle Ages. They had cars, planes, tanks, machine guns, trains, the telephone, my grandpa was alive and… derailleurs were already a thing.
Yeah, but in the vast majority of the cases of the things you listed (not your grandfather), they were utter pieces of shit compared to what we have today.
A modern derailleur would 100% be recognizable and 0% reproducible.
Yeah, but in the vast majority of the cases of the things you listed (not your grandfather), they were utter pieces of shit compared to what we have today.
You have that almost backwards.
They couldn't yet throw software at problems, so they had to solve the challenging problems mechanically with very careful and often intricate designs.
And while cutting costs was definitely an interest, they hadn't yet taken it quite to the point of modern absurdity.
You've probably heard the phrase "they don't make things like they used to" - stuff in that era wore out due to materials issues, not because it was made too cheaply to begin with.
A modern derailleur would 100% be recognizable and 0% reproducible.
Not by you, obviously. Your grandfather quite possibly though - and someone else's grandfather definitely could have made a drop-in equivalent to a 12 speed derailleur.
(The metric threads of the mounting bolt would be a pain, but even those can be done with care and large ratio change gears)
All the bad shit broke. And if you try to tell me that a Model T is equivalent to a modern cheap car on safety, comfort, reliability, and efficiency, you're insane.
Not by you, obviously
Oh come on. If you want to do that, describe the order of operations for just the aluminum body labeled "Shimano 105" on a rear derailleur for a 1924 shop and a modern shop. Just the cosmetic exterior. We can assume it's cast, so the order for just the mold.
It seems you've missed the point - duplicating the cosmetic appearance is not what matters. Creating something that moves a cage containing jockey wheels in the necessary ways in response to the cable pull is the task that matters.
And there's fairly simple compared to the sorts of things they were making in that era - because, again, they didn't have electronic computation or controls, so they had to solve hard problems with precision mechanisms alone.
Given you're just going to keep demonstrating your ignorance, it's time to end this.
Belton Repeating Flintlock: A Semiautomatic Rifle in 1785 (youtube.com)
I just watched this video that reminded me of our conversation. This was the kind of mechanical abilities they had a full 150 years before the timeframe we discussed. The real difference between the last few centuries and today in this regard is only price. Delocalisation, mechanisation of the means of production and the invention of assembly lines have really lowered the costs to the point a modern semiauto rifle can be had for a few hundred quids vs many thousands in 1785, but the mechanical capabilities were already there. And people in 2124 will probably laugh at the prices we pay for a Di2 system today, but we still can built it now.
Sure, it could be understood by visual inspection more easily than the Di2, but you don’t think it would cause some head scratching with a 2x12 drivetrain and integrated brakes/shifting?
you don’t think it would cause some head scratching with a 2x12 drivetrain and integrated brakes/shifting?
Not really, it's pretty clear what it does.
Back in the era before electronic computation, complex mechanical devices were the norm.
Nor the ability to manufacture carbon fiber.
Nor the ability to manufacture carbon fiber.
If you explained what it was, they'd get there pretty quickly.
They might even do something near term with a simpler binder than epoxy - composites aren't exactly a new idea but have been a long traditional category of materials.
And they'd probably end up with epoxies before their mid 1930's debut in our timeline.
Could you explain carbon fiber beside just the basics like looks or what you think the materials are? Much less to people that don't have concepts anywhere near what we currently have.
Nevermind though if you are some kind of chemical engineer or something. You probably could explain it.
Could you explain carbon fiber beside just the basics like looks or what you think the materials are? Much less to people that don't have concepts anywhere near what we currently have.
Cloth and varnish/dope/glue type composites have been long known. Also paper or fabric impregnated with phenolic resin.
So you're basically talking about two changes.
Replacing typical cloth with first glass fibers, and then later carbonized synthetic fabrics
Replacing solvent type binders with catalyzed epoxies - something that showed up in the late 1930's in our timeline, which is to say something where a lot of the underlying knowledge was already there.
What the time traveller has to do is find the people already working in the right areas on the precursor technologies, and give them a little hint towards the path that actually works.
Sometimes merely knowing that an idea is workable would be all the hint needed.
Further to your point, complex composite bows have been in production for over 4,000 years.
I was inspired by this thread to learn that carbon fiber was invented in 1860–omfg!!
Carbon fiber is not that complicated.
You can create a crude version of di2 without advanced electronics. They had batteries in the 1900s. They were big, bulky and didn't hold a lot of charge but they had batteries. We knew how to make DC motors back then. Maybe not as small as di2 ones but we had decent DC motors. The rest is just a couple switches and wiring. Features like double clicking or click and hold are not necessary for a basic di2 system.
As for the rest of the bike, everything would have to be handmade and I don't know enough about carbon to know if they could've been able to reproduce it but it's mostly miniaturizing and lightening what they already had.
You will change the course of history causing Germany to invade Russia on gravel bikes and get to Moscow in a single push.
Bikekrieg.
Sacre bleu!
They would complain that you have to plug in the shifters to update their firmware.
Or pay a subscription to Musk to allow you to shift
25 shifts per day, $.25 for each additional shift.
Or pay a subscription to Musk to allow you to shift
So, of all the things you could do with a time machine...
Much better to use it to make people think you're a poor-to-middling magician by killing an endless series of twin brothers in death-trap water-filled contraptions.
They'd probably be more interested in the time-travel element tbh.
Yeah he’s kinda burying the lead.
I don’t think people will be blown away. Free wheel and electronic switches were already invented back then. Radio was recently invented, so being able to send messages without wires would have been imaginable.
I guess it would be like if someone from 2100 shows us a 2 pound solar powered e bike. We will be amazed but not so surprised.
People would be more impressed by the carbon fibre bike, wheels, and total weight. And probably ride quality and cornering.
Imagine having the lightest bike for the next 80 years
If you wanted to impress people with ride quality you'd need a gravel bike with 50mm tyres. You're not gonna have fun on 1920s roads with 28mm GP5000s, no matter how light the bike is.
They would be more impressed with etap
Even so, in the 1920s they had the radio. That instead of just audio you could sound a signal to an electronic device might not be such a big leap.
“Transparent aluminum?”
Forget the early 1900s. You take that shit to the 1980s when index shifting on a steel bike with toe clips was considered magical and you’ll blow everyone’s mind.
I would show up to the first Tour De France with that thing.
Make sure you're wearing a US postal jersey to freak them out.
I’m sure at least a few would be like the anti-disc brake dorks of today. “Who needs more than two gears? Undoing the wingnuts to take the rear wheel off and flipping it around to use a slightly bigger freewheel already works perfectly well for tough climbs, literally no one needs this!”
They'd react the exact same way as 99% of the general population except they would be surprised that it costs the same as two or three houses.
I hope you brought a tool kit because the Allen wrench wasn't invented until 1909.
Wouldn't have the technology to replicate it at the time. Would take a lot of money to approximate some of it. Naturally none of the electronics would be possible for another 80 years, if that, and the chip tech would require probably 80's technology to even study and reverse engineer.
In fact, you'd probably need 80's tech to do any sort of reverse engineering on the whole bike. Maybe you'd learn something from the wheels/hubs...but you'd have to create the tooling and upgrade the metallurgy you have to even try.
Biggest value would probably just be from seeing it and knowing what the technology does, to give them a directional focus for their own future designs. But with it being Di2 you've skipped over both the advent of shifting technology and the mechanical era of it.
More interesting would be a mechanical aero disc bike in the 90’s. Now that would blow their mind while being realistic.
Agree, people in the 80s or 90s are close enough in time/technology to be legit impressed and appreciate all of the details. 1900 is too long ago for that kind of reaction.
Well, they hang you for being a witch
Is that how you do a century ride?
Underrated joke.
Ask you if they can give it a try and never come back.
They'd probably get into a debate about disc vs. rim brakes.
First, they would marvel at how light the bike is, and the precision of every component
Second, they would ask why would you need electricity and dark magic (integrated circuits) to change bike gears when it's much simpler and more convenient to use only mechanical components
They would say SRAM is better
They would laugh at you for not being able to charge the damn thing.
You would burn alive.
You realize they only had two gears? And to swap, you literally removed the back wheel and reversed it.
ugh that does not sound fun.
ugh that does not sound fun.
QR was invented after trying to undo the wingnuts with frozen fingers in the alps to flip the wheel.
And no brakes!
if there were no brakes on my bikes, I would not be alive writing this comment right now.
Burned at the stake.
I've sometimes wondered what it would be like to take a modern cell phone back to a high school classroom around the mid-90s... or I guess any time prior to the smartphone era. Would be funny to see the looks on people's faces. They'd think it was some kind of crazy black magic or something.
they would be awestruck until your batteries died
They'd tell you etap is better. And they'd be right.
I'm sure they would be more interested in checking out the time machine that you came in.
Half the people on here still don’t believe in carbon fibre or tubeless tyres, so good luck in 1900
They'd say "how the f are we supposed to ride this up the dirt roads in the Tour de France, and also what am I supposed to do when my shifter battery dies and replacements haven't been invented yet?"
I think they'd take the mechanical technology at face value and admire it. Whatever you do, though, don't turn up in a lycra skin suit. You'd probably get arrested.
Good luck finding decent roads to ride on.
If you put it on the bike of a beloved professional rider, it would be embraced and you’d be a hero. If you gave it to a middling and relatively unknown rider and he started crushing everyone, it would be banned immediately as being against the spirit of the sport. Don’t upset the hierarchy!
Would today’s TDF bikes survive those roads and the rule in place back then?
Gravel bike would be the better choice.
First things first...how much pigmentation would you say you have on your skin? That might be something to consider before time traveling to the early 1900's and sounding smart.
It will be demon magic, then after a month of rides you will be SOL with no way to recharge.
Rather than showing them electrical wizardry and something that requires intergrated circuits to work, I think it would be neat show them a mechanical groupset. As they may not have modern manufacturing techniques but a skilled craftmen could probably still replicate all the parts. But imagine if they had 12, 12 or 13 speed mechanical back then, we would have like 24 speed now!
excommunicated and shunned for not bringing dura ace as the prophecies fortold
They'd laugh at you and beat you up. Cyclists back then were hardcore.
You’d have a hard time explaining that Japan designed it.
They would shoot you with bullets to make sure you’re not a witch.
If I travel back to the early 1900s and showed them a modern dura-ace Di2 road bike,
Major Taylor will still drop you
They would be impressed till the batteries ran out. Give me a mechanical group set instead.
I want to visit the parallel universe in which Pantani has full access to modern tech and also a mountain of blow.
With the gearing and the soft feel, they will say it is for disabled children.
You shall be crowned, King Velo.
I don't have time for a child's toy because I have hay to bale. God dang kids!
Black Magic.
In the 21st century they run bikers off the road while driving Rams. In the 19th century they run bikers off the road while riding horses.
E-bikes have entered the chat…
Considering that motorcycles existed and EVs also existed it's just a refined combination of the two. And of a safety bicycle of course.
They'd burn you at the stake because of your witchcraft.
Maybe the world will be less car-brain oriented.
They might have chance of replicating it in the 1990's, but in the early 1900's no chance. Transistors didn't come into widespread use until the 1960's and micro controllers the late 70's/early 80's.
You’ll be burned at the stake
Sort of related hot take.
If you took a modern bike with modern gearing and gave them to the whole TdF in say the 60’s though the 90’s a different rider would probably /might win. Strong aerobic system but you can’t smash a big gear in the 60’s? Too bad for you. Strong aerobic system and now you’ve got a 39x30 or 32 or even a mid compact and spin your way up the mountains with the leaders.
They would say why are you still riding bicycles
It would be hard enough just trying to explain to them that a machine talks to another machine using a radio to move your machine.
I dunno. I feel like they would sorta get it. The derailleur is not new tech. They might just see that it's the same as what they got, just better, if you know what I mean.
You obviously would be an alien from another planet, with amazing telepathic powers.
I'd be more interested in seeing how a WW2 pilot would react to a garmin varia!
They would not look past the skin-suit... then they would burn you, I guess? Admit that this is what you came here to do...
Probably by asking you for investment advice
“There is no way a machine of such light build and mechanical complexity will hold up to the conditions of modern (early 1900s) roadways. The narrow tires are sure to have the operator writhing in pain as they offer no cushion over rough terrain and the thought of requiring footwear specific to the operation of the machine is absolutely preposterous.”
Burn him!!!
Depends on who "they" are. If you showed it to Henri Desgrange, he would have called you a pussy-ass bitch for even having a derailleur on your bike, let alone one that shifted without cables or rods. He would have thought your fancy machine was unworthy of being used in his little bicycle race around France because it would make things way too easy for the racers. Others would have thought you were some kind of huckster who was too lazy to do things the "sporting way". And, if you were a prototypical modern-day racer showing off your bike, some of them undoubtedly would have said "My god man...have something to eat!". Sometimes "evolution" is the best way forward-- small incremental improvements and changes that gradually get built on and become accepted over time. Going straight from the Wright Brother's "aero plane" to the space shuttle would probably be too mind-blowing. Same with what you are describing.
Battery dies Oh, so it's a single speed just like mine then! /s
They would say. Why?
Pretty sure you would get an audience with Nikola Tesla
They would drop dead at how ugly carbon bikes are.
If you went back to the early 20th century and showed them a modern Dura-Ace Di2 road bike, they would probably be shocked and surprised because such high-tech, electric shifting and advanced design were unprecedented at the time. They would probably think it was a prop from a science fiction novel or a technology demonstration of the future.
They would laugh at the idiocy of carrying around a batttery to power a shift. I do too.
They’d bring back the Witch Trials & push you off the side of a cliff, on the bike, to see if it/you could fly (thereby proving that you are a witch).
Ask any Trump supporter, they’re approximately 150 years behind the times.
Popularism, unfortunately, never ages
Depends on if you white or non-white.
4 missing replies
UCI will ban you for a century.