The current setup, not enough space
Annoying handlebar bag that is too full
Previous setup with the bag strapped down (traded bags with a friend)
1/3
Just got back from my first trip - four days Southern Spain! But I don't like my bag setup
Bike Tech and KitI think it truly depends how much you’re carrying.
3-4 day trip with mild weather conditions, I’m definitely just using a seat pack (8L Revelate Terrapin, super easy to detach the dry bag and really light weight/no sway).
Longer trip or expecting rougher conditions? Going with the rack and panniers. I will say, though, that it absolutely does make my bike significantly heavier and hike-a-bike much less fun.
Yeah I’m asking the same questions. This trend of strapping bags all over the bike except on a rear rack is a really puzzling thing. It’s funny that the bike in the picture has a shiny chrome bolt exactly where a rear rack would have been partially mounted but instead has bags everywhere else. I dunno what’s going on anymore.
I want my bike to handle the same as it were if it was unloaded! I can not stand the fishtail down technical or loose descents like it does when you load the majority of your weight on a front or rear rack. The bike handles like a semi truck then! So I keep most of the weight centered above the bottom bracket in a full frame bag, and spread lighter stuff out on the rest of the bags. But having UL gear really helps, you don't need top of the line CF tents and whatnot, just stuff that's reasonably light and small.
Partly fashion. Partly function.
For example, though I'm not a fan, seat bags do make a ton of sense for those who are properly off-road more often.
When camping, even on less off-road and more gravel/asphalt, I prefer a bigger bag on a rack (like OP tried but didn't like), to keep all my at-camp stuff in one place (tent, tarp/groundsheet, sleeping bag & mat, pillow, pyjamas) and to make it a lot easier to remove, sling on my shoulder upon arrival and much easier for check in for the journey home.
I use panniers daily at home, but feel a bit constrained by them away from home, as I don't like breaking apart camp things and my tent is long and thin (no ultra-light, bikepacking specific gear, just use what I have). This is changing somewhat since I've gotten my bakkie panniers because of their ridiculous versatility and their non-rattle attachment method. I suspect they are going to stay on even if not immediately used: Giant bear cannister, no problem; Stack of firewood, no problem; random thing bought on the way, no problem; tow a bike if someone's breaks down, no problem. But still, primary is going to be rack and 35l drybag I think.
I’ll check out those Bakker Panniers! I have a few different bags + the specialized cool caves which I’d highly recommend. I’ve done a few bike packing trips + a bunch of grocery runs with.
If you’re doing rough terrain on a bike that has a lot of flex from shocks, I could understand not using panniers, but I’ve done a bunch of gravel and dirt trails on a single speed solid steel bike with panniers and really felt the only disadvantage was on very steep dirt climbs. (which I contributed a lot to the fact I was essentially riding a traclocross bike with 700/32c tires)
Yeah, I think the arguments you read about panniers not working off trail are a bit overblown and its clearly largely a style thing: e.g. the vast majority of posts in this sub are from people not really planning to go deep into nature on miles of rough single track.
But certainly I don't think the gold standard of panniers, the Ortliebs and the like, are great for off-road. They rattle from the plastic clasp attachments, the fly about because the bottom hooks aren't designed to truly secure the bags, which are meant for easy on and off. There are others which you can securely attach, top and bottom, that fix those issues (and the argument about things getting too wide are a bit countered by the other trend of ever wider alt bars).
Still, though, the seat bags have their place. In the roughest terrain they make sense. On full suspension bikes like my wife's they are pretty much the only option. And for those who don't want a rack and don't want to waste money and time installing one just for a bikepacking trip, they still make sense.
The trick for REALLY bumpy terrain is to leave a few zip ties/cam straps/velcro strips in your bag to tighten the bags to the rack in a pinch otherwise, the movement isn’t as noticeable. I bought a cheap IBERA Pakrack pannier at goodwill for $8 and only had to secure the bags once to prevent rattle.
Very good points, very well put. Thanks!
The main reason I've heard is because of aero issues.
A rear rack with a dry bag on top is as aero as a saddle bag I think
Agree. It’s multi functional as well. Clip on panniers in seconds when you need em, strap stuff on when in roam, or have nothing on there 🤷♀️
yea it is, but weight difference is quite a lot. At least for the ones I have.
I made the mistake of getting a rear rack that's pannier compatible (in case I ever decide to want them), so its a bit heavier.
Rack: 900g
35L drybag backpack: 1150g
10L seat pack: 500g
You can find rack that weight 500gr and a dry bag weight 100gr
Just get stronger. Bitching about pedaling an extra 500g is wild.
Sick dude! You must be a beast!
Not really but I’ve never been one to really worry about micro weight adjustments for my backpacking or anything like that. Obviously there is a point where too much is too much but the ultralight obsession feels more like an REI marketing campaign to justify spending more on gear than anything else. 1 or 2 more pounds on my back really isn’t going to deter me from finishing my trek.
Yeah, I think so too. The question was about rack + panniers though, so I think with the panniers, the aero is affected.
Everything on the bike in the photo can be put on without touching a tool. But if I carried more stuff panniers is definitely the move.
Do you not carry a multi-tool on every ride? 😅
Yeah I do, I just meant that it's one less thing you gotta think about. 30s to velcro my bags on vs. a few minutes to install a rack & panniers.
Once the rack is installed once, it’s <2 seconds to reattach panniers each time. I’m not against frame bags, as I have one that never leaves my bike & has all my tools + extra tubes + pump + more, but I’m just pointing out that rear racks (unless you have a bike with a lot of rear suspension) are the easiest way to load a bunch of stuff. It’s just trendy not to use them right now.
I had to take a bus to get to my start location and a train to get back afterwards and for both I needed to pack my bike up and put it in a bag, so taking the rack on and off was just another layer of items that kinda annoyed me. Not too much, but more work for sure.
Not as relevant if you're completely skipping transport, but I didn't have a choice for time constraint issues
I just don't have enough in tow to warrant using panniers. I'm just slightly at the cusp of fitting into a slimmer setup so I figured that less is more in this situation.
On top of that, I try to stick to single track gravel riding which sometimes ends up a bit more mountainbike-esqe and I know I wouldn't feel particularly comfortable with panniers.
All of that said, I'm planning a pan-western-European route, i.e., probably the most bike compatible area there is. Any problem I have or item I need, I'm sure I can find within a relatively small radius, so I don't feel the need to carry absolutely every item in case of__. Obviously, I've got my bike repair items and core self care, but I'm not packing how I would if I was going across Africa or South America where I'd have less access to items I think I'd need.
Really boils down to trying to just not have unnecessary items. I started backpacking 3 years ago and took a 100L bag with 42kg of items and now I go out with 30L and 12kg, so I'm trying to start this hobby from the minimalist side and work up, not the other way around.
Hey hey hey take that nonsense over to biketouring please
TLDR: I don't know what seat pack to buy or what bag setup to use because I can't stick to a decision
I'm prepping to do a long (2 month+) trip from Madrid to Berlin this summer, so I've been putting together a long term setup on my new Kona Sutra. I planned a few shorter trips before to test my setup, and I just got back from my first one, Malaga to Sevilla in Southern Spain. It was incredible, so much fun, and really great overall.
The problem is that I really didn't like my bag setup: I got AGU bags (17L handlebar, 5.5L frame, 1.5L top tube) and I supplemented it with a 35L drybag backpack strapped down onto a rear rack to give me flexibility between bike bags and backpacks. I felt like I had too much empty space in it to warrant keeping the setup and I just felt slow with the weight of the rack and the bag (together its 2100g).
So I ordered a 10L AGU seat bag (500g) and loaded my bike up, but I couldn't fit all my gear. I tried to fit my computer in the handlebar pack (key point is that I work remotely, so its a non-negotiable for me to bring a computer), but my bike felt super front-heavy and I also just couldn't fit everything in my bags. Honestly, I just don't like the AGU handlebar bag in general, it feels poorly thought-out for a drop bar bike because its nearly impossible to access your items while its on the handlebar, not to mention how annoying it is when you're on the drops if the bag is full (like only 10L full though because you can't fit it in otherwise).
So now I'm going down the rabbit hole of "shit is my setup terrible?" and I ended up looking at Apidura bags (especially the 17L expedition seatpack) and I'm considering switching everything out for all Apidura instead. I guess I'd be waterproof at the end of the day, but man those are some expensive bags, and I don't even know if I can return the AGU ones at this point. I at least guess I could return the 10L AGU seatpack and get a 17L Apidura bag and that wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'm in decision paralysis.
Not sure if there are other brands I should be looking at for potential seat packs, but I'm a pretty fair weather by of biker and I'm not sure I would even be biking around in rain, so maybe that value proposition of the Apidura bags isn't even relevant. I also keep my computer in a separate sea to summit dry bag for extra protection, so as I said, not sure the dry bags are really necessary.
Maybe the part that's holding me up is that I'll have 90% AGU bags in brown/blue and then one gray/yellow apidura bag and I couldn't think of a worse color combo clash. Not that I'm very fashionable, but it would be nice if everything was setup the same. Might not be worth it for an extra $700 to get all Apidura bags though.
Any and all ideas/recommendations would be helpful
I can guarantee you the extra weight of a rear rack and an additional bag are not going to slow you down in any meaningful way at all, especially with an already chunky bike like the Sutra + your body weight + all your other luggage, it's a tiny drop in the bucket.
yea you're probably right. maybe I should just get in better shape and stop complaining about my extra 1500g from a rack + bag. I'm sure I can drop that from my waistline anyways hahaha
The other way of thinking about it is that 1.5kg less means I can add 1kg more of useful items and still save weight in total.
I don't think there's a right and wrong way. I understand both ways of thinking about it. And there's other variables at play: what's more versatile, what's more practical, what's best off-road, heel clearance on hikes with short chainstays, etc, etc.
His problem is that he doesn't have enough space to fit everything, so in this situation trying to save .5kg, like 1/100th of his total weight, doesn't make any sense. The rack allows him to carry way more and also access the things in his bags much easier.
Yes, I guess in this instance that is the likely deciding factor.
I was addressing the more general principle whereby not all weight is the same. Weight of necessary items and weight of 'good to have' items counts differently, or should. For example, I removed my mudguards for my latest trip and got wet and muddy a couple of times instead, because in the end every little adds up.
So, 500g of extra water or a better first aid kit might be, depending on the trip, better than 500g on a rack.
Have a look at the bags from Ortlieb.
I have the ortlieb seat pack which is absolutely great. (16.5 L)
I also had the Agu handlebar bag. But the bag is NOT 100% waterproof and after some very rainy days in Sweden, my clothes inside were getting wet. I replaced it with the ortlieb handlebar pack, which is so much better and 100% waterproof even in heavy rain outside in the night.
I wrote the agu support and returned my handlebar bag and got a full refund. Support of Agu is great.
I highly recommend investing in some good quality bags. Especially if you take your laptop with you. Ortlieb has some very good bags. Trust me it's worth the money, and the bags will last much longer the cheap ones.
Edit: I saw you have mounting points at your fork. Ortlieb has some fork packs which you can mount on both sides. (5L one bag) I also have them, they are very good and easy to attach and remove
I'll have to check the ortlieb packs out! There might be something along the lines of a mental block for me when it comes to ortlieb b/c everyone has them and I want to try to be mildly different, but if at the same time everyone has them, then there might be a reason.
I also read a few issues about the ortlieb zippers, but that might have been a once off issue
how do you find the handlebar pack? I saw they've got a 9L and 15L - do you have drops and if so, how much can you actually fit in the pack?
I have the 15L and I have drop bars. I can fit mt tent (msr elixir 1) and some clothes in there, no problem.
Can you split the difference? You already have a rear rack, and that can't be too much of the combined 2.1kg you mentioned, can it?
If most of that weight was the bag (you mentioned a backpack?), you could copy me and get a cheap-as-chips dry bag instead - I bought one from a random shop online. It's 20l, perfectly waterproof, and weighs 260g. It cost £10, delivered. It has backpack straps to use in emergencies. Perhaps your 35l dry bag is just too big, thick, and heavy?
If most of that weight is the rack, get a lighter rack! My Ortlieb Quick Rack is about 580g.
I deemed 840g for a rack and 20 litres of storage pretty good going, and compared to my body weight the weight difference is negligible. And it's a pretty cheap solution.
Yes, the Apidura is lighter. But it'll sway around a whole lot packed with 17l, and it's expensive.
Yea I think you're right, I can probably get a lighter backpack for sure. I made the *slight* mistake of getting a rear rack that's pannier compatible (in case I ever decide to want them), so its a bit heavier.
Rack: 900g
35L drybag backpack: 1150g
The ortlieb quick rack is def more attractive at that weight, but it might hurt the ego and wallet a bit to buy it for an additional $115 when my rack was already $80 and I can't return that.
the drybag backpack is already returned, so I think I'll get a drybag like you. Which do you have? I'm mildly worried about the cheap drybags being fully exposed to the elements, just in case like a rock gets flung up and slices it open
It's this one, and it honestly feels pretty durable! I'd trust it as much as a bikepacking bag anyway. UK shop, obviously:
We started this conversation over on my post, but having had a look at your setup, I think the Topeak saddle bag or the Restrap will be good options. I hear good things about the Apidura, but have never tried it, and I think it's expensive.
Yea, maybe I should’ve looked into the Topeak bag, but can’t be a Monday morning quarterback on that one.
I axed apidura once I read a bit of other posts on quality and also I couldn’t muster the idea of looking like a wasp on wheels for The next two months
Let me know how you get on with the Restrap. We can compare notes.
How do you feel about AGU vs Apidura? Is one suited for some type of bags over others?
Sorry but Im sticking to my topeak rear rack, Ortlieb plus panniers & handlebar bag & no name waterproof/lightweight bag on top of rack for my tent. I know its unfashionable but it just works……frame bags/fork bags/large seat bags are all a fair wank
Did your Sutra come with the front rack? I originally planned to use a handlebar cradle/dry bag and fork cages, but found I actually enjoyed the weight being down low on the fork with panniers. It may give you a decent split of storage space between the 10L handlebar bag and 35L drybag (my panniers are... 12-14L each, I think? Brooks Norfolk), plus the shape may make it easier to put a laptop into.
Oooo I like that back setup. What is it?
So I'm actually trying to get away from using the support a bit (and just using the bag in a classic style hanging from the seat/seatpost), but it's a Carradice Nelson Longflap and Bagman Support!
I like the classics.
The little bag between the support and the seat is actually a Revelate top tube bag, just spun sideways.
If you’re in the US - swift makes a similar bag/bar set up https://builtbyswift.com/shop/zeitgeist-pack/
yea, mine came with the front rack, but I took it off because I was trying to avoid front bags because a fair bit of my route was gravel/single track. Looks like you've really got a lof of weight up front, how does your sutra handle?
I'm also maybe hesitant to put my laptop in a front wheel bag like that, just in case it gets smashed up against something while I'm riding
I was mostly on paved and dirt trail, so I could see the hesitation in that one for singletrack. Once it started moving it just kept moving. Then again, I didn't buy a Sutra for weight savings!
I guess the piece I'm thinking about most is how you can carry the laptop without it getting bounced around too much for the trip. You could consider something like a classic saddlebag design made for handlebars, like a Bags by Bird? https://www.bagsxbird.com/product-page/Piccolo9-5W
Carradice also just released updated bikepacking bags and a handlebar support similar to their Bagman support as well.
If you're not worried about the laptop - when I used to use a more similar bag setup on a different bike, my approach was to get a really large compression stuff sack (https://seatosummit.com/products/the-evac-compression-dry-bag), so I had a larger diameter but could squash it down to leave lots of space to work the brakes.
This is all kind of based on keeping the same seat bag you already ordered, though.
I'm going through a rethink of my packing setup at the moment. A lot of my switch is going to be from a seatbag/large handlebarg bag to pair of Old Man Mountain Elkhorns. I'd rather have the little bit of weight than the bag wiggling around, crowded cockpit, and I've got good lightweight dry bags I'll protect with Tyvek cutouts from abrasion. I've got a small handlebar bag that is also a hippack for quick access and to take with me if I'm leaving the bike. Framebag I think I might just go full triangle and bladder for water. Most of what I've done and plan on is camping and a lot of the areas around here are blackbear territory so I have to deal with bear bags/canisters depending on whats allowed which eats up space.
Compared to that dry bag you were using (which looks like it was built for rafting), the SeaToSummit evac bags are probably going to get you decent weight savings back if you switch back to a rack and aren't terribly expensive.
Yea the drybag I have is definitely too beefy for my purposes. Ill have to check out the SeaToSummit evac - thanks!
With your switch, the old man mountain elkhorns are rear panniers right? not familiar with the brand so I'm not 100% sure. Im definitely feeling the irritation of a crowded cockpit, so I might have to rethink the handlebar bag setup, especially if I have a computer in there.
Full frsme bag, water and an Anything cage on the forks. Move the weight around.
You can try mini panniers for the rear, they will definitely hold more stuff better as the weight is lower to the ground compared to a dry roll on the rack itself.
And switch to a full frame bag with 2 feedbags for water storage
And definitely a handlebar bag
I really dislike the seat packs, especially if you have to regularly take stuff out and pack back
Anything that requires rolling and stuffing into tight burrito style of bags for me is a troublesome and very demanding job.. Unless you are doing fast packing with minimum stops and maximum cycling
full frame bag for water storage is a good idea! I assume you mean like a water bladder and just feed a line up to the handlebar or something. the burrito style for me is kinda nice, can get everything compact and I like playing clothing/item tetris I guess
Haha! One of the best things about bikepacking bags is that they force you to get real about your needs. You ain’t gonna overpack!
Meanwhile, a rear rack and panniers are going to have you hunting around for things you might possibly, maybe find useful.
Plus, wind is a thing. Weight is a thing. Singletrack is a thing. All these things are better with bikepacking bags. Of course, if you are headed to Ushuaia…
IDK ab the bags but that is the sexiest bike ive ever seen
Just get pannier bags, damn
I've had good luck with my bags from roadrunner (Los Angeles CA USA company). The jammer series is great. My partner has the small jammer and while small is solid. I've got the middle earth and jumbo jammer bags 19 and 26L each - plus designed to be able to strap bulky stuff on top such as sleeping bag, tent, sleeping pad... and the straps for the job included. The small sized jammer also includes those straps. Looking at your bike the jumbo jammer is going to be too big and rub on your tires but the medium but still big "middle earth jammer" should work. I don't know what shipping is going to be. For not having a rack and relying on soft attachment points with straps the bags have impressive stability but are inferior to my tailfin aeropack. As far as being waterproof I've heard mixed reviews. They might not be absolutely 100% waterproof but in my experience of being out in the rain, sometimes multiple days in a row - it was good enough that I couldn't notice water or dampness in the bag. If my roadrunner bags aren't absolutely 100% waterproof it's close enough that I wouldn't worry about it. There's a number of other companies which offer bags that might be easier for you to get due to distribution such as "swift industries" or "bags by bird". The bags that my partner and I have from roadrunner are well made and hold up. My partner and I have been using them for about 2.5 years (and some are newer) have held up and have no signs of dieing or needing mending with a needle and thread. R.R. bags might be comparatively expensive due to being made in Los Angeles vs a Chinese sweatshop with child labor and they're quality and hold up. They've got a few YouTube videos on them from both the company as well as people reviewing them as well as other stuff on various places around the Internet.
I've never heard of Roadrunner, I'm definitely going to need to check them out! I feel like half of my issues are centered around my handlebar bag not being a top roll and having to access stuff from the sides.
Is your jumbo jammer a 26L handlebar bag? I just see 17L on their website. Maybe its 26L fully unrolled? But I see that you think I won't have enough clearance on the larger bag with my bike size, so I guess Id have to go for the middle earth.'
But to be honest I'm lost with your tailfin aeropack comment; do you put the roadrunner bags on the back?
The jumbo jammer is 26L. The middle earth is somewhere in the high teens of liter capacity. The jammer series is all top roller. All of the roadrunner jammer bags can be used as both a handlebar and seat bag (assuming that your bars/saddle has enough clearance to the wheel (also if using drop bars both the medium and jumbo require a wide handlebar with the jumbo even wider). I think that R.R. has some European distribution but I can't tell you anything of substance there. As far as tailfin the rack top bag replaced my jumbo jammer. The jumbo jammer has considerably more capacity than the tailfin aeropack but I also have the tailfin 22L panniers so that's a considerable amount of rear capacity. The roadrunner is surprisingly stable for not having a solid support such as a rack but in terms of stability the tailfin aeropack is solidly better.
I have an Apidura Expedition 14L saddle pack, 4.5L frame bag, and 9L handlebar bag. I really like them. I don't camp, but I use them for long rides and multi-day trips. So far so good. At this point I've resisted a rack, but I may swap the saddle pack for a rack next year depending on how our four day trip goes this summer.
If you're needing a laptop, you probably need a rack and panniers, or depending on your bike and laptop size, a full frame bag.
Does your laptop fit inside the frame? If it does I'd consider a custom full frame bag. Put the laptop in a foam case and a light weight drybag
full frame rocks if you have a big triangle- in between the wheels will offer the best ride for your electronics too
no, unfortunately my laptop doesn't fit in the frame. its a 52 frame and a 12in MacBook air so its a bit too big for my relatively small frame
BUT I Like it!
can't help with the clashing (can't say i've ever worried about it either).
Re. bags -seatpacks are great, till they aren't. They are best for rugged off-road routes or where the lightest, slimmest profile option is indicated. But they are harder to load and can be more awkward to mount and remove at camp (holster style is pretty good though)
A 17 liter bar bag is pretty darn big and unless carefully loaded with light items is likely leading to a poor handling feel.
There definitely is a middle ground these days between the heavy and rack pannier systems of old and the stripped down seatpacks. A rack/ with mini panniers and dry bag can be 800 grams for 40 liters. The mini panniers have going for them ease of loading/low c.g. and trimmer profile.
what rack/mini panniers will end up at 800g? I'll have to check that out as an option if that's easy for me to get ahold of.
I think the problem is that my rack I have right now is too heavy, its 900g and bulky for panniers and top bag
well it's not a cheap set-up but, my Tumbleweed ti mini paneer rack ended up after cutting and replacing couple of bolts with ti at 374 grams including bolts/plugs to fill the holes on the 3 pack to make them less abrasive
The panniers with straps (Mountain laurel Design ultra poco) weighed 224 so rack plus panniers is 598.
Those panniers are only 9 liters a side so I also got a top bag (MLD 22L dry bag) weighed 111 grams.
Rack, panniers and bag weighed 709 grams.
thinking of using voile rack straps to start so 2 of those is around 100 grams (other straps would be lighter)
That would bring the total to 809 all up -less if straps are subbed - for 40 or so liters and a trim profile, so still hike-a-bikeable able i hope
Can you explain your route? Want to do similar in the region
I went Malaga to Sevilla over four days, stopping in the Alozaina, Ronda, La Muela (near Zahara de la Sierra) for each night. Really nice route if you don't go along the major roads from Malaga up to Ronda.
Day 2, Alozaina to Ronda was the most elevation gain (around 1200m) but really nice scenary. Stop for lunch in El Burgo and chill there. Then day 3, I found a nice place to stay the night in La Muela, so I did a lunch stop in Zahara for view + food. Last day breakfast in Coripe after a fast downhill was a nice time as well.
Overall, nice route in the hills with a fair bit of elevation gain (3300m) and around 230km
Thank you so much that helps a lot!!
Did you ever feel that the roads were too car heavy? That's my biggest fear
So was mine. That's when I looked at ortileb quick release, haven't regretted it. Loving it. You should check it out.
Go through my post until you find my bike touring setup. Feel free to hit me with any questions. You’ve got a more gravel bike packing setup I’d take on more rugged off road adventures. A rack system really makes a huge difference when touring.
yea, I mean your setup looks great. Colors are definitely hitting the spot. Bottle cages in orange? Excellent.
But honestly your panniers look huge. Probably way too much for me. whats your frame pack brand? and the bottle cages
Outer shell frame bag. Corki cages. Panniers aren’t as big as you think. Mainly just make sure I have proper front/back weight distribution.
My setup is a rear rack with panniers and 3 bolt cargo cages on the fork. Handlebar bag or frame bag depending on what my needs are.
I have a very similar setup currently, all the same bags except for the bag that sits on the top tube. There I have a rockbros bag because it has more space.
I also have two of the agu snack packs and on each side of the fork cargo cages that carry 5L bags so 10L on the forks in total. You could try those although they are not very aerodynamic.
I think I will replace the seat pack with an Ortlieb 16.5L Seatpack to get 6.5L more space since I remember that I had a lot of stuff that I didn't need during the day which I put in the Seatpack.
Keep in mind though that I do not need a stay in a hotel or at a camping place for 5 days then I need to recharge my power banks.
Did the glamour tour with some friends who all had retired child trailers sitting around. Can’t tell you how much fun it was touring with a 3 person tent, folding chairs, a Webber grill, a dozen bottles of wine and 2 frickn Cheesecakes. Travel light, freeze at night. Travel well and enjoy hell. Trust me, the climbing was hell.
I traded my rear rack for a seat pack and then put a lowrider rack on the front with two ortlieb 12.5 liter panniers (the ortlieb gravel packs) bike rides so much better with the weight up front and down low. I also have a regular front rack with a wald half basket and outer shell basket bag sitting in it. Don't know what kind of riding you'll be doing. If you are on a bunch of chunky single track mountain bike style trails then maybe front panniers aren't the best option but for gravel roads and regular roads it will work great.
I don’t know why so many people are against rear racks + panniers. It’s a comfortable & practical setup that can fit a lot of cargo