I currently have a music coach who I feel like is telling me some things that I feel like wouldn’t work on an autistic person. I don’t see any point in telling him I have autism because he told me that he doesn’t have any experience teaching autistic people. Some of the things he’s told me that I think wouldn’t work on an autistic person are
you’re not a kid anymore. The world isn’t gonna coddle you
you need thick skin
you see this as black and white with no awareness of the gray area
I am so tired of people filling in things or instructing me on how to do things because ''everyone else'' does it that way... Well if i could i would have done it...
If you're going to tell me not to be weird at least tell me something less vague, like "Don't tell everyone the difference between alligators and crocodiles every time one of them is brought up"...
Don't correct people on female hyena facts in school. Learned that one the hard way. :(
Are there large misconceptions floating around about female hyenas?
Q. What did you learn in school today? A. Masking.
Yep
Same 😥
Apparently the fact that there are only 364 and three quarters of a day in a year is boring, nobody cares that otters kill baby seals for fun, and vultures are not cool, they’re ‘disgusting’.
Scavengers are neat! Also , we have a weird number of days that is cool, too.
Ikr!!!!
There are actually 365 and one quarter days in an astronomical year on Earth. That’s why we have leap years every four years. But actually there’s a tiny bit less than 365 and one quarter days in a year — the true number is more like 364.2422. This is why there is no leap day in years that are divisible by 100 even though they are divisible by 4.
Oooooooh :D
Mine was “Don’t correct the teacher on the fact that blue moons exist but not the way people think they do, because it will end up on the test and everyone will glare at you.”
In my defense, a 4th grade science and social studies teacher should fucking know what a blue moon is, and her description on the quiz was STILL WRONG.
I don’t think they should, actually. It’s a fairly useless factoid. My special interest seems to be fairly useless factoids, so I love learning about things like this, but I can also recognize that they would add nothing to a curriculum and are probably unknown to most people for a reason.
It was relevant to her telling kids that blue moons didn’t exist in any capacity.
Could you expand on that? I always forget how to tell the differences between them.
Please keep talking about the differences between the two! Alligators and crocodiles are a great topic. I mean…for example…
Crocodylia do temperature dependent sex determination. I didn’t know for a long time that female and male Crocs are genetically identical. how does that even work? They are also way more genetically stable than we are.
Also we humans are as similar to a macaque as a crocodile is to an alligator (genetically speaking the overlap is about 93%).
Literally though. It’s like they think I’m doing it on purpose or smth.
If that can make you feel better, as an NT I tend to have an affinity toward weird people. As someone who went through a lot of abuse and rejection during his childhood, I empathize easily with socially awkward people. Stimming doesn't bother me at all. Before I learned about the concept, I thought they were some kind of tics certain people do when they're stressed, excited, or whatever. I've always had fun analyzing body language and recognizing patterns. I sometimes find the behavior endearing. "She always does this thing with her hands when she's stressed."
We need more understanding NTs like you in this world. Thank you for being an awesome ally!
Thanks. I've had several autistic friends. I didn't really understand much about the condition when I was younger. I just figured they were different, had trouble socializing, were obsessed/passionate about specific hobbies, didn't get sarcasm, and were often overwhelmed by their emotions. I didn't know about things like sensory issues, visual snow, and stimming, until much later. I'm still learning new things. Sometimes the new things are a big surprise to me, but usually they just explain things I already noticed but didn't fully understand.
I made my first autistic friend when I was 11 and we stayed friends for nearly seven years. I didn't know he was autistic until later. He was a bit weird in his mannerisms and the way he talked, but we shared the same favorite hobby and he was really kind to me. Even though we didn't go to the same school, it was obvious to me that he struggled with bullying like me. I never pitied him, I genuinely loved the guy, platonically of course. When we played video games, he would sometimes stand up, lean forward a bit and shake his arms. It was the kind of behavior that would attract bullies, but in my head he was just overly excited. I made a habit of gently grabbing his arm and calmly asking him to sit down next to me again. It's what my instinct told me to do and it seemed to work in calming him down.
When I started writing my first novel, I created a character who had the habit of massaging his arm. I intended him to have generalized anxiety and that the massaging was a way for him to calm his anxiety. Without realizing it, I was describing stimming. I learned about stimming more than a decade later. In hindsight, I thought that the character in question should be autistic instead. I retroactively made that change, which honestly didn't require much rewriting. My novel isn't published yet, I'm still waiting until I'm really satisfied with it and its sequels.
By the way, did you know that we NTs may also stim? It's not as extreme and it's not done for the same reasons, but we do. We do it to relieve stress, anxiety, or boredom. I personally like fidgeting, stretching my hands, and shaking my leg. The latter is done subconsciously though.
“She always does this weird clap when she’s happy”
Followed by being scolded for doing the “weird clap” when I was watching a dark AF episode of Dr. Phil.
….only for my mother to realize too late that the “clap” was happening when I was stressed out, not happy.
They drilled the happiness idea into my head so much I believed it.
“Mom why do I do this”
“Happy”
….so, so, so wrong.
My wife and many friends are allistic (most NT, I think) and they’re all pretty weird. But I have always thought everyone is weird. “Normal” people are the weirdest of all.
I grew up in a country where an incredibly common phrase, at least among kids and teens, is something that literally translates to "Be normal" or "Act normal" And me being culturally different from my peers due to being an expat mat very well have been a factor. But looking back at it with the understand I have now that I'm most likely autistic (Almost 20, not yet diagnosed, seeking diagnosis but waitlists in my area are 3 years long) I think some of that weirdness they were trying to essentially bully out of me was probably autistic traits.
I respond to this with “suffer”. Autistic people are 1% of the population. By definition weird is the opposite of normal and normal is whatever is the most common. Thereby it is impossible for autistic people to not be weird.
“Weird” is a qualitative, subjective term. There are many things that are uncommon that aren’t considered weird, like a solar eclipse or a rare gemstone. At the same time, we can consider some very common behaviors to be weird. There’s no threshold or measure; it’s just how we regard something from our point of view or in a certain context.
Other good responses to this are: citing the fact above, gaslighting them with “I’m not weird, you’re weird.”, asking them if they would also like you to (insert completely unreasonable and impossible task here) and demonstrating your refusal by stating the most obscure fact you can think of.
Okay hear me out, I went on a thought journey: “I’m not weird, you’re weird.”
“No I’m not, watch, I’ll go ask the others if they agree with me”
/stares/ “it’s somehow not weird to ask other people nearby if they think I’m weird? Isn’t that also kinda bullying?”
Add your own ending, but the people I knew would’ve done it anyway because it was bullying.
Yes, I would add to this, people say things sometimes because they don't know about autism, so they're saying things like don't be weird because they're comparing you, or the person they are talking to to a normal person, and so yes it is different or weird the way that people with various neurological disorders might do things, or say things. But that's okay because lots of people are different in lots of different ways.
So I think that OP should take the teacher aside and perhaps the whole faculty, and tell them they are autistic, and make sure they understand that there are learning differences, and the most useful thing is to actually tell those teachers what they can do to help that single person, because everyone with autism has slightly different needs or requirements, and encourage them to seek factual advice about how to teach people with autism...
As in, I think OP should specifically mention a source of information, like a government website, where there is information for teachers and also specifically mention that those teachers should not do anything that bullshit sources like tick tock or YouTube shorts "says".
There is a chance that talking to them may work, but there’s also a chance that they’ll choose to remain ignorant. I think OP should defs think about it for a little while, but if they do it at all, they probably should let another higher-up faculty member know in case the teacher acts badly
As a matter of perspective, allistics are the weird ones to us. Like why wouldn’t you plug your ears is everything was So Loud?
“Don’t be weird” well it’s not like I’m doing it on purpose.
“Don’t be weird.”
People who say this to me have no idea how much mental energy and vigilance it takes for me to correctly guess what they think is weird.
It’s not even worth trying. I don’t really care.
I realize, though, that not caring is a privilege. I happen to live somewhere it doesn’t matter much, and have an occupation and position in life where I can afford not to care. It’s also something I couldn’t mask well even if I tried. The weird always comes out.
What bothers me is how thoughtless and insensitive people are when they say this. They don’t really think or understand what they’re asking of others. And they say it so casually.
''just get over it'' or ''it's not that big of a deal''
''why don't you just talk to ''x'' (or group)"
explaining a struggle ''everyone experiences this, you are making it bigger than it is''
''you are smart enough to know that'' - no I don't, otherwise I would not have had any problems in understanding?
''if you tried harder, you could do it'' - no, I just can't do it...
Generally just filling things in because 'normal' people behave that way...
Think my parents have said almost every single one of those things in reaction to my suffering because life is a living nightmare for me
Same here yeah, as if your own feelings/emotions are non-existent and that they know better how you feel and that is how you must feel…
"obviously it doesn't objectively matter that I can't find my thing that is supposed to be right here! Do you think I want to have a meltdown over this!?"
I relate to this as an NT with C-PTSD. I hate when people tell me these things. My struggles are different from yours, but I receive the same kind of invalidation as you. Even my mother, who isn't abusive and actually means well, is guilty of it. She always makes things worse when I "overreact". She really has no idea how to properly intervene. Although she isn't perfect, my sister is better at it. Her girlfriend, who I consider a part of my family, is also good at it. As for my father, all I'm going to say is that he's the reason why I'm not "normal".
Sounds very familiar yes it’s so frustrating, I am at my lowest of energy since all my life
Oh my god the “why don’t you just talk to X.” I tried to talk to them! They told me we needed to just drop it but still treat me the same???
What am I even supposed to do if they are gonna stay passive aggressive???
Yeah right… I can’t force them to ‘change’
"You can't let one thing ruin your entire day!"
Oh, yeah?! WATCH ME!
Challenge accepted. 😠
this one bothers me so bad
Same. I had it said to me earlier today, so it was an easy example!
Woooooow, clearly someone needs more emotional depth or something. I feel bad for them; sure, sadness, anger, and frustration are things I experience intensely, but that means my joy, love, and passions are intense, too. I would rather deal with the meltdowns than to get rid of the absolute joy.
Agreed. Also, that one thing was something rather important that affects many other things. Lol. This was an actual comment I got yesterday.
This isn't exactly what you're asking for but I feel it's related.
Recently I worked as a teaching assistant for a university philosophy class. At one point I was in a meeting with the professor and he was explaining to me how I should mark the students' essays.
He also talked about how the topics for the essay all relate to theory of mind, and everything he brought up was predicated upon people having innate knowledge of how people's behavior connects to their state of mind - reading facial expressions, body language, tone, etc.
It was so interesting for me to sit there and listen to this because I knew what he was talking about and it made sense in the context of neurotypicals, but I struggled to contain the urge to tell him that I don't have that innate knowledge and that I am autistic. If I were a student in his class I would have gone to office hours to discuss it, but he was my boss and I was on payroll and felt it was irrelevant to my actual job.
You probably dodged a bullet by not bringing it up. You know exactly what happens when NTs at a job find out.
While I completely understand what you mean, he was an incredibly nice guy and was understanding of some anxiety attacks I had and when I missed a deadline. He really seemed to care about my well-being, and I doubt his attitude towards me would have changed.
That said, as you mentioned, most employers would be far less forgiving. Once I have jobs that aren't student jobs, I'll have to be more careful about disclosure since my university is incredibly supportive of people with disabilities, and has been used as a model all across the country for disability support. I will still need to disclose my accommodations but whether I say I'm autistic will depend on my relationship with my boss/superior.
So, the interesting thing about theory of mind is that it applies equally to autistics. That is, autistics understand the minds/experiences of other autistics. Theory of mind relates to what is called the “double empathy” problem. Read the wiki on it if you haven’t heard about it. Speaking as a professor, I would encourage you to talk w your professor about this. I think he would find the argument interesting—that allistic people have an empathy problem (do not understand the theory of mind) for autistics.
Thank you for your response.
I am aware of the double empathy theory and have personally felt that it is true when interacting with some autistics, to varying degrees depending on the person. I could have been more clear about this, but I didn't mean that I am never able to use my own theory of mind, just that in the context of the conversation, what he was saying didn't apply to me because he phrased it as if it's universal between all humans and I took it literally (I think he meant it that way too).
Whereas for me, it's something I experience very rarely in the moments I interact with a subset of other autistics, to the point that it feels quite insignificant. Even with other autistics I sometimes feel like I don't have the level of innate empathy that neurotypicals often have for each other.
If I ever work with this professor again I will talk to him about this. I'm sure he'd find it very interesting considering he has done research on philosophy of mind.
we were employed in an admin job in registry but the staff hated me, and so my boss had to move me into the call centre on full pay over enrolment time. yeah dont think just because people work in a university that they are any more liberal or inclusive than anybody else - they arent!
What happens when NTs at a job find out?
It depends on your coworkers but for some people it leads to discrimination and workplace bullying, isolation, etc.
Other times it won't make any difference at all. It's very dependent on your workplace.
Good to know. Thank you. This is the one place in my life where I can ask clarifying questions and people don’t think I’m being snarky. It’s just such a relief to get a straight answer without an emotion. I’ve always masked hard at work. Then burned out over and over. Thank you! 👍😁
I am working in a school with a principal who was a special education teacher, so far I am having a better time than most other schools I have worked.
This isn't exactly relevant, but thank you so much for using "theory of mind" in the correct way, lol.
I always feel like a pedantic buzzkill because I die a little inside when people use the term "theory of mind" when they mean to say "philosophy of mind" or some such.
you should’ve said something!
I hate the "be more flexible" thing, because people usually say it to get you to do something that they could do if they were more flexible.
“It’s rude not to look people in the eyes”
wow omg I’ve never heard that before! But seriously do people think I don’t know that? And what do they expect me to do with this information? The eye contact you are currently getting is me trying my best lol.
You can somehow learn to hold eye contact, year ago i didn't even look at the person, 5 months ago i was looking at lips and now im looking at eyes, but still cutting it after a while.
Yeah like I’m much better at it now, but I’ve been working on it for a long time. I can look at someone’s mouth all day and make direct eye contact for an hour or two. If I’m not doing it, it’s because I’m tired af or I don’t feel like you’re worth the effort lmao.
Pro tip: it’s not considered “rude” if you don’t make eye contact when YOURE talking. Only when you’re listening. Makes it so much easier! I was taught “natural” eye contact is when you’re making it 100% of the time when the other person is talking, but only when you make it 50-75% of the time when you’re talking. If you do 100% both times, it comes across as “too” intense which is so funny to me.
I would do anything to have eye contact for hour, i barely hold one for two seconds. Also i feel you for being tired, today i had six hours of work without even sitting for a while, i did 5 months of job in six hours and i wanted to go home alone but some dude trying to be my friend was asking me why im tired and making jokes, it ruined my day to be honest.
It takes a LOT of work. I’ve been building up to it for a LONG time. I also can’t do it every day and generally will stim if I have to go that long. (Most people don’t notice subtle hand stims during a conversation)
Looking between the eyebrows reads as direct eye contact. If you’re taking to customers, you can focus on something just behind their shoulder and it also reads as eye contact. The trick is to alternate between actual direct eye contact and “faking” it with those strats + looking away when you’re talking.
I’m so lucky that I work outside and get to wear polarized sunglasses. Nobody can tell that I literally never do it!
in some cultures it is disrespectful to look people in the eyes.
Sometimes my sister asks me “did they look mad?” Or “we’re they upset?” And my answer is always the same “I couldn’t tell.” Like I can’t read minds
"Just trying adding it in, and it'll become part of the routine!"
This is mainly from bosses when they want me to say extra crap on the phone to customers. If it doesn't feel/come naturally in the conversation, I struggle to remember to add it in because it feels soo forced and fake and phoney.
"It's not a big deal." Oh how wrong they are. If my snack was taken out of the pantry by someone else and it's not there when I go for it, I get rather upset. Sometimes to the point that I'll have a meltdown because I was looking forward to it and it's not there.
Just because it's not a big deal to them doesn't mean it won't ruin my entire day.
Someone took my seat in warehouse i work in, still think about it even if it was two days ago
"Just stop thinking about it"
"Just focus on something else"
"You just need to wake up earlier"
"You can't just sit in your room"
"You just need practice"
"Just push through it"
Basically if your going to give me advice which includes the word "just", then please shut the fuck up.
This is what I was looking for. I've come to hate that word.
I feel like I should really tell people especially my parents that saying “Just stop thinking/worrying about it” makes me worry/think about the thing more.
"Ignore the noise, pretend you're not in the crowd"
“I think you’re just overthinking it”
"you need to step outside your comfort zone."
More often than not it's pointless advice given based on a false assumptions that A) the thing is irrationally outside my comfort zone and B) the thing is worth doing.
Some things are outside your comfort zone for good reason, based on your understanding of yourself, your chronic conditions & your limits. In those contexts "you need to step outside your comfort zone" is like saying "you need to disregard your health/wellbeing."
Allistic people think it means "try it, you might like it" or "you need to push yourself to grow" but when something is difficult for a genuine reason, and that reason does not or cannot disappear (like autism), the thing might never get easier with practice. In those contexts it sounds like "you have to suffer. repeatedly"
Also sometimes people say it about things you're completely apathetic about. Like it's neither in nor out of your comfort zone because it's boring and inconsequential. You could do the thing, but you won't because there's no reason to. In those contexts it just feels manipulative IMO, like they're accusing you of being insecure and resistant to personal growth to goad you into doing something arbitrary. It's like the OG 'weaponised therapy speak.'
Even in contexts where the advice is truly appicable & warranted, for many autistic people the unsolicited encouragement is more likely to automatically make us more resistant to the idea so the phrase is still pointless even when used correctly.
Most of us already live outside our comfort zone every single day. Asking us to be even more uncomfortable is just too much.
Exactly! Telling me to step outside my comfort zone implies I'm currently inside it to begin with.
It's like saying "You're not uncomfortable ENOUGH. Be MORE uncomfortable. No, even more than that. That's still not enough. Come on, stop holding yourself back! Suffer. You need it."
ICK
"just say hello"
no, i'd rather die. have my empty stare and nod instead.
Why do NTs place so much weight on saying hello to people? They might think it's nice or polite, but I think it's annoying and rude.
"Just be yourself"
I've masked for decades of my life, my entire adulthood, I'm in my mid-30s...I'm still learning what "myself" means
"you're too sensitive"/"stop being so sensitive" evokes a special type of rage in me. like okay, let me just rewire my brain real quick /s.
also when people tell me to stop crying. don't you think if i had any control over that, i would have already stopped??
"Just be normal" - I will never be able to be as normal as you want me to be. I was diagnosed at 14, I'm very high-masking, but it made me miserable, and I still had a great deal of difficulty despite my masking. Why should I hurt myself trying? Can't the world accept me for once instead of me struggling to hide my differences?
"Stop fidgeting, it's weird" - Fidgeting is necessary for me. I stim when I'm happy, I stim when I'm upset, I stim to focus, I stim all the time. Unless I'm hurting myself, touching someone else, or making a great deal of noise, why does it matter? I especially hate it when I'm doing something like listening to music, and I'm really feeling it, and I feel the need to move my hands to the beat and feel of it, and I'm prevented from doing so because it's noticeable.
"You're supposed to be getting less weird, not more weird" - I'm trying to do what comes natural to me (obviously harmless things that only affect me) that I've been stopping myself from doing my whole life (primarily stimming, I used to stim with as little motion as possible because I hated the criticism, and now I'm trying to not care about the criticism because it's not anyone's business) and being more stressed and dysregulated as a result of stopping.
"You're too smart for this" - My intelligence has nothing to do with the fact that I think differently. Intelligence doesn't mean I don't struggle- I may be great at reading and school subjects, but that doesn't make me suddenly understand and receive your unspoken cues.
"Can't you use a less obvious fidget?" - I carry fidget toys around all the time, as I have an excoriation disorder and I need to be doing something else with my hands instead of picking. People saying this know about my needs, and if I don't have a fidget and end up picking, they get upset about me not using my tools, but when I do use my tools, I'm told to be less obvious and just exercise some discipline and not need them. Most ironic time that this occurred was in the middle of my rabbi's Rosh Hashanah sermon about not distancing yourself and hiding Jews who aren't as accepted by society (he was referencing LGBT Jews primarily, but I think he also spoke about disabled Jews if I remember right).
"I don't care if it's not easy for you to do that, we do hard things" - This is always used to tell me that I don't need accommodations and I shouldn't adapt anything to be better for me, and I should just do things like everyone else does and power through because "we do hard things".
"Just socialize! Just go talk to people! You always say you're mentally tired, just stop" - Talking to people is incredibly draining. It's too much for me, and I'll check out eventually. I'd rather be able to take a step back and regain my energy instead of keeping on going and being burnt out. Also, socializing isn't that easy for me. I can enjoy talking to people, but I don't understand the expectations and rules of socializing, and I am ostracized for my mistakes.
"Look at me" - I don't want to. It's uncomfortable. I've made it this long by looking at your eyebrows, but even that's unpleasant, and I'd rather not force myself to stare at your eyebrows. Not only do I find it uncomfortable, I also can't pay as good attention because I'm focusing on staring at your eyebrows. Not making eye contact doesn't hurt anyone, so why do I need to cause myself undue stress and discomfort by forcing it?
"Get those things out of your ears. Life is loud, you just have to deal with it" - I am capable of sitting through loud noises without causing an outburst that will be embarrassing for you. Instead, I'll be stressed, anxious, and uncomfortable. I'll be overstimulated. Concentration is harder, doing tasks is harder, I'm not socializing because I'm feeling too bad, I can't eat because I feel sick if it's bad enough. If it's a sudden noise I startle and flinch. If it's unstoppable and persistent, I look visibly upset. I don't usually cover my ears, I've had that trained out of me, but I certainly want to. If it's bad enough, I do despite societal norms. Some scenarios (concerts) are worth it. A classroom setting full of chatter when I'm doing a worksheet isn't worth it. A car ride with chatter and a podcast and the engine isn't worth it.
For me it really comes down to being told that I need to be more neurotypical. I'm not, I never will be, and I'd like to be accepted for who I am instead of being told that I should be someone different. People are unwilling to learn about autism, and tolerate my differences without making me change, in favor of making me change and be constantly exhausted by having to hide who I am and fake every interaction because I am different. I wish there was more acceptance. Sorry, this became long. I just have a lot to say, I'm so sick of being told these things.
The "be less weird/socialise more" is very relatable, like, do these people not realise that that's what I've been trying to do my entire life and only recently realised that it's not actually possible to achieve?
I would rather be happy than constantly try to appear normal and socialize as much as society wants me to, making myself miserable, and also never succeeding at appearing normal.
Apsie here, just because things come harder, doesn’t mean you should ignore well intentioned criticism. I’ve made great improvements in the realm of self-reliance, social awareness, and handling stress over the years of adulthood. Everyone regardless of nero-divergency should work on those things. Thinking you cant improve is a sure way to set yourself up for failure. Maybe im lighter on the spectrum, but i never used autism as an excuse. Even if autism isnt doing me any favors, theres still room for me to improve and things i can reasonably work on. If someone sees an area where im lacking, i will at least try to work on it. Show them you care and are trying your best and they will try their best to help you in most cases, even if they initially seemed insensitive to your hardships.
The problem are the arbitrary expectations put on you from other people around. You should be the only person who sets goals for yourself because you know best when you can't do certain things. NTs constantly fail to take that into consideration and keep pushing their beliefs onto you, coming out as really manipulative.
When you are surrounded by those arbitrary expectations, you have no room to grow for yourself.
I agree, i have aspergers too and in recent year i improved a lot of my disabilities. Year ago i couldn't even speak freely, i didn't look in the eyes, and barely walked outside my house, i spoke only 2 times daily. In past few days i improved my speaking skills to the point of controlling what i say, that's all because of stress i generate while talking. Im still struggling with eye contact, but i finally make one just to cut after a while, i can't go past the wave of discomfort i feel when looking in the eyes. And im self-reliable, i walk outside my house and i can buy myself clothes and stuff without bigger problems, yet i need help with paperwork and stuff like that.
Recently my psychologist offered me a help with joining some groups to learn social contacts or something like that, im joining.
I disagree with the grey area one because it is true for a lot of us, and it's worthy of being pointed out when someone is hugely misunderstanding something because they aren't picking up on the grey areas that exist, since they don't naturally think that way, or because they're too focused on their strict meaning making map to think critically about their own perspevtibe. But maybe you mean it in a different context.
I definitely agree with the other two.
My contribution is that I think there's also no point in saying:
"If you get overwhelmed, just take a deep breath and keep going, don't get emotional."
"You really need to read the room."
"Just relax."
"Don't think so much/don't try so hard."
I really feel that last one, and also the opposite. I always seem to think black and white when people don't, and in gray when people want black and white. Sometimes I simply don't have an opinion, or just stand right in the middle, and people have said things like "no, you have to answer, you have to say one or the other!" Like...no I don't, neither is also an answer.
Same - I can usually see all sides of debates, etc…but some things like preferences/peculiarities I’m hardcore black and white. Or emotions…like “I couldn’t find the pair of socks I wanted so the whole day is ruined” type thing
"Life's not fair."
Nothing boils my blood faster. Life SHOULD be fair and we could all do our part to MAKE it more fair. It's such a shitty excuse.
Even if you take it at the most cynical face value and run with the implied "...and you can't change it", it's such a bullshit statement.
Sure, okay. Life's not fair. So... I shouldn't be mad about it? Like, thanks, now I'm not upset that I struggle with things that come naturally to most people. I don't feel hurt and minimised when people constantly look down on me and use my "labels" to gaslight me. I'm fine with the fact that I'm living in a world that works against me. I'm not angry, I feel no despair, and it's fine. This is fine. I'm fine. Life's not fair. Cool. It's fine.
What a useless, meaningless thing to say. Life's not fair. Okay. And if you fall on your face, it hurts. Doesn't mean your goddamn nose isn't broken. Fuck me, people drive me nuts sometimes.
"now in the real world you cant just...." or "thats not going to work in the real world"
“You should’ve known what I meant” or anything along those lines when the meaning is totally ambiguous for no reason
"Watch your tone"
I am struggling to get my words out as it is. I can't also police the tone they come out in. It's the source of so many arguments with my bf. I'm not shouting or anything, but he is so hung up on my tone that he isn't listening to my words.
I had a job, where sometimes they would run out of work for us to do, and they would start making up jobs: go clean the trucks, go sweep the floors, tidy the shed. I would say, logically, the trucks will get dirty again tomorrow when we take them to the field, the shed literally has a dirt floor, plus we're still using all the gear so we shouldn't put it away, and there is already a cleaning person who sweeps the floor TWICE A DAY. They tried all these arguments like 'think how satisfying it will be when it's clean' or 'well I'm your boss so you have to do it' or 'well you're getting paid so don't complain'. Fuck off with that shit, I said, and started just going home those days or going for walks instead of working. If you don't have work for me, don't fucking treat me like a cog in your machine. I don't know why so many people see the employee before the human.
I never listen to any argument that goes 'you Have to because of xyz'. No. I never HAVE to do anything, so don't fucking act like that it as a solid argument.
"just do some small talk" this was told to me so many times at my summer job when i had to be on the cash register sometimes. Like no i am not about to comment on someones jacket or purchase, if someone says hi to me, i will say it back, but if someone wants to do the paying in silence then i will only say the mandatory like price or ask if there is a need for a plastic bag
Yeah, unless I am really into their jacket, it’s not getting a comment from me.
I hate it when teachers are like "I'm not gonna be your mommy and hold your hand and give you mercy when you turn in things late" and "you're getting low grades probably cuz you're not trying", and things like that. My grades are low cuz I'm not learning, something's not clear clear me, and I'm afriad to communicate my problems (sometimes, I can't even figure out why I am confused) because of comments like these. Shoot, I don't expect them to be my "mommy", I just need them to know that I'm working really hard to get where I want to be through school. I'm freaking different than others. I'm autistic and the school thought it was wise that they put me in easier classes other than sticking me with the 504 plan.Then one's argument might be like "heck, everyone's different!". I give it my best and still sometimes I still fall away from my goals, i.e., making grades that reflect my best. I mean, I know I'm capable of making A's, but I fail because I get overwhelmed, like, maybe when I'm not given enough time to finish assignments and stuff. Give me enough time to think, form ideas and thoughts, and show them through my schoolwork— this here's the best I can do. When I get overwhelmed, I "shove the plate" and quit the assignment. Then, I can't do my best. I guess they can call that lazy, but I already expect too much from myself (I guess you can call it lazy. I have no idea what you call anything anymore). I don't need them to add to that, too. But then, maybe one would think I'm just taking it too personally. But I mean, it's almost like running a race and I'm just giving it my all while others over here are running at a fast pace than I am— and succeeding— and I poured all my energy into one fleeting bolt. There's no mercy for this. We have to work 2x more harder than others to meet expectations or our own goals! Every day!! And it's a super frustrating everyday thing!
(Some teachers, not all of them. But then again, maybe, with the state of mind I have, I always feel threatened, so... again, idk what's what 🤷♀️ This in itself is a frustrating thing. My threat vs. non-threat filter has broke cuz of the lack of clarity I have.)
I often wonder how school would have been if I had been identified early…my senior year of high school I finally got a math tutor who realized I had dyscalculia, and my psych professor (who gained to specialize in testing) realized I had processing issues in college - I would just misread things, so she would regrade everything once I explained what I thought the question was.
-Toughen up -that’s life -grow up -we are all a little autistic (this one gets me) -you’ll get used to the feeling (clothes, shoes, socks etc)
Your music coach is right , autistic or not you will still be competing against people who are either on the spectrum or not. And only the best skilled and sometimes best networked people make it in music. Now this does not mean that your sensory problems are not real or even processing problems. The one thing I have learned from my life as an adult with autism is that you can find accommodations, but in the end you have to make your strength’s compensate for your weaknesses. For example, I work at a Home Depot. I have a very hard time having good relationships with coworkers ,the relationships are not bad just very surface level. Well, some people move up because of their networking capabilities. I gain importance where I’m at with my skill to remember the entire store like a map down to aisle, then bay, to shelf. So my point is you have to make things work with the cards that you’re dealt even though life isn’t a fair game. This doesn’t mean you can’t win what it means is you’ll need to put more work into your dreams, and in the end, those trials build character. And it’s that character that builds value.
I am sorry, but “only the best skilled” make it in music is just not the case. I have had the pleasure of working with some of the most skilled musicians, and none of them made it. They can live of it, but that is it. The Music industry is like any triangle…way fewer people fit into the pointy top, than the bottom. No matter what skill level you apply. Zero skill = zero chance is however still true.
"You can't use autism as an excuse!" When I explain that I find something hard, eg making smalltalk, and that autism is the reason why. Like yes, it isn't an excuse, it's a REASON! How do you even respond to this when someone is so extremely NT and unwilling to consider that not everyone is the same as them?
"But you used to like (x thing) when you were younger" OK, so? I don't like it anymore. My parents used to say this A LOT when I told them I didn't like a certain food/song/etc. I don't even know if this is an autism thing tbh but it's quite annoying
It's essential to communicate your needs clearly with your coach. Share your concerns and preferences, so he can adapt his teaching approach to support your progress effectively. Remember, a good coach should be flexible and open to accommodating your unique learning style.
What should I tell him to tell me instead?
Oh, I highly doubt he's going to change. Truth is, we need things explained to us in a way that makes logical sense or we're going to ignore it.
Being called weird or awkward or being told you make things awkward or any similar line of reasoning.
Weirdness and awkwardness are just my thing. I don't feel that a circumstance is weird or awkward, though I do notice when other individuals are weird or awkward as they stand out against everyone else.
"Cheer up" or "what's up with you?"
Don’t overthink it.
It’s a bit like telling a colorblind person to try harder to see colors. It’s more about understanding that other people see colors and ways to move through the world
"c'mon, you know better right?"
the gaslighting catch phrase my parents used that surely played a major part in my cptsd and bpd
Dude those are just abuser dogwhistles.
I think these words come from a lack of experience rather than a desire to Emotionally abuse someone
Ok. Maybe I'm not using my Hanlon Razor right.
"You just need to [blank]."
“you’re too in your head”
"You think too much" "It doesn't matter" "Don't worry about it" "That's never gonna happen" "Why worry for nothing?" "You're so paranoid"
Basically just stop fucking gaslighting us...
"You should socialise more"
It's not a big deal.
I don’t see how these kinds of things would work on anyone, gives “thanks I’m cured” energy.
I don’t know if you are a teen, a young adult, or 40+, but from 6 years old to 21 years old I went to music school. From 15 to 21 it was intensly, as I was on a school program to build a career out of singing. My teacher, who was a real life music industry person, told me the exact same things. Made me cry a lot of the time, which was worse. The other ones were the same as well as the other musicians. I spent 15 years training to become a professionnal musician and singer only to quit totally because of these words. This doesn’t answer the question but I just want you to know that there is nothing wrong with you and that « thick skin » looks different on everybody. A thick skinned autistic person could be one who’d cry without shame or stim while playing without caring about what other people think. All of that to say that I think autism and music are beautiful together and I agree that this state of mind cannot work on autistic people. So try not to take this advice because it’s not you who have to grow a thick skin, it’s the others who need to learn to help one another. PS I know the struggle of trying to connect with other musicians without your teachers help it sucks
I’m almost 24
Maybe it’s all things that you already know lmao it’s mostly me who related to your post maybe a bit too much but yeah, I agree with you
(blah blah blah backstory that adds nothing to the point and leaves us wondering for 5 minutes while you're trying to find your point)
Uhm…..what?
That's an average NT conversation. Lots of irrelevant information vaguely tangentially related, wondering what NT is even talking about while they wait 5 minutes to get to the point
Are you saying that my post wasn’t specific enough
Lol no. You're very responsive. I meant that one of the things NTs do with each other that in most cases they don't need to do with autistic persons is they add a bunch of random or tangential information that doesn't really relate to their point. Ie telling tangential stories or adding essentially small talk when they're trying to get to a point instead of just saying what the point is and why the point is supported. That information is just confusing and detracts from the point they are trying to make because it's not relevant and also can cause information that supports the point to be missed by making the extra irrelevant words compete with relevant words for attention, processing power, and memory.
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"you don't look autistic"
I mean, my thoughts as a musician, and knowing he doesn’t explicitly know you’re autistic…
Point A: academic/career musicians are very protective of their little gauntlet/boot camp shit. it is true that you need to learn some self-starting, but independent music is very cooperative and more conducive to NDs thriving than whatever overly serious hellscape academic/career musicians have set up for themselves. If NTs are allowed to exploit environments to their advantage, so are you.
Point B: Musicians are very sparse on praise, heavy on technical criticism. I feel this actually suits ND workflow better, they already have thick skin for this. Many NTs constantly need to be reaffirmed that they are “good [musicians/artists/people]” instead of just addressing the success/failure of the work’s execution. Or take criticism of the work as an attack on their personal character. Maybe that’s what he’s getting at.
Point C: Shying away from hard limits is good for all musicians’ practices, regardless if they are NT or ND. If you are black and white, be black and white about the fact that music or aesthetics are not black and white. Everyone will have hard limits, it’s inevitable, but you have to scrutinize why you keep them when they are just cognitive constructs. There is always the possibility that you simply inherited them/established them as rules as a result of masking. I think a lot of NT people don’t, they take the social rules/cues as objective limits, and set themselves up for aesthetic dead ends, identity crises, etc.
I mean I feel like I have thick skin for constructive criticism but not for criticism that’s insensitive. What makes u say that more constructive criticism and less Praise is friendly towards ND workflow??? That kinda hasn’t been the case for me
I’m sorry but as an ND person, I kinda don’t think being sparse on praise and heavy on technical criticism is the best way for me to feel motivated
"You should just be able to deal with this because you're XXX old now" (well I can't. Same goes for "you're acting like a two year old" or similar)
"You just need more confidence" (in the cases where it isn't a lack of confidence, but a lack of knowledge and skills. No amount of confidence will make me be able to ride a bike safely on the road, and I probably shouldn't be more confident about that because it's dangerous.)
"We all think a little differently" (yes, that's obviously true, but most people don't get bullied, left out, called slurs and laughed at for it. Autism means more than "thinking a little differently", and we have to respect that.)
You can find some things funny
“That’s a bit weird isn’t it?” Yes, I fuckin know that, that’s why I did it.
when you get into a conflict, just take a deep breath.
I can’t even remember my name in a 1:1 conflict. Total sensory overload.
Anything said by boomers pretty much.
Your music teacher shouldn’t be saying things like this to non autistic people either. What any of this has to do with music anyway. He sounds toxic
This came from how I complained to him that the fact that I was bullied by people from a music site somehow made me lose a desire to practice
I don’t really see these examples as bad advice for autistic people necessarily. I mean, there are a lot of contexts in which growing a thick skin is absolutely what you have to do in order to survive. And there are lots of environments that won’t be accommodating. It sucks that life has to be this way, and it’s far from fair. But lots of autistic people can and do grow a thick skin out of sheer necessity, and in an environment where that’s the only viable option the advice kind of makes sense.
I don't know if this is exactly what you mean, but before I was diagnosed, I was seeing a therapist for depression and anxiety. She wanted to treat my anxiety with exposure therapy. I didn't finish the course of treatment, so I guess I can't be sure, but I just don't think that will ever help me. It may force me to get better at staying in control of my mask in states of high anxiety. But it will never lessen my anxiety. Because I can't train my nervous system to stop being overloaded by things that I'm hypersensitive to. If exposure therapy could work, I wouldn't have these issues. I've been forced/ forcing myself to be in loud, crowded, bright environments since early childhood. The dysregulation for worse, not better.
“You’re being too sensitive.” “You’re overreacting.” “You need to understand others better.”
Tell your teacher you're autistic and then tell him to go and look it up in the medical journals and how teachers are supposed to deal with it.
Remind him not to go on social media and read bullshit about how to deal with people like TikToks or YouTube shorts.
Just be honest and tell him that you have autism and you would appreciate his help because you understand things and learn things in different ways.
How you are at music does not come into this. As a teacher and an adult that person should be willing to interact with you in a different way that suits you and treat you in a different way if necessary because, well basically your brain functions differently.
If you don't tell your teacher or all the teachers then they can't adjust how they act towards you and will continue to do the same thing as if you were any other student no matter what you tell them.
In school and in life adults your colleagues when you go to work just other people won't necessarily treat you differently because of what you prefer when you tell them that's not how life works despite a lot of left wing people trying to force freedom of speech.
Anyway if you tell them it becomes a more serious and medically orientated fact that they have to do with as a school.
As long as you only tell the teachers and if you start with the head teacher and make sure they understand clearly what you need they should pass that down the chain and then the teachers should respect that chain of command pass that down the chain and then the teachers should respect that chain of command.
What I would also say is that you don't want other students to be told and so that teachers must keep it confidential.
(If they break that confidence then you and your lawyer can approach the school)
Bye for now I would say keep it simple and just be honest with the teacher because you have certain needs or you have certain ways of thinking or learning that are different from other people and the teacher needs to adjust their behaviour based on that and they should be willing to do that because a lot of people learn differently whether or not they have neurological disorders.
Sorry but I really don’t feel comfortable telling my music coach that I have autism
(TL;DR talk to parents and school principal or counsellor to get opinions on whether or not you think telling the faculty or that one music teacher would help and also consider whether giving that teacher the opportunity to understand more about you and autism in general.)
That's fair enough, but then it becomes complicated to expect these people to treat you any differently, or understand you, or even attempt to find out any information about how they could teach you better, if you don't give them all the information they need.
And it's fine if you're not willing to tell your music coach in person, specifically. But perhaps there's a school counsellor, or even the principal, you could approach, possibly with your parents, to tell them that you do have this diagnosis and that certain adjustments need to be made.
I don't know where you live, but in the UK, and I think other European countries, workplaces and schools have to make reasonable adjustments for their employees and pupils. I assume this at least works the same way in schools in America before college.
Basically, if you do tell a school and they don't help you as a whole, then that's potentially a lawsuit, and not something I'm going to get into here. But if you tell your school and they say that they will help you, and they try to be supportive, and then one teacher is being a complete douchebag, that's where you can go to the principal and perhaps the school board and say that you are being treated unfairly AFTER they found out that you are autistic.
That would be a deliberate case of antagonizing or bullying by that one or more teachers, and that would be something that they can get into serious trouble for.
All this to say, that I genuinely think, in most cases students in particular will be better off by telling the faculty as a whole, or at least making the school counselor and the principal aware that their student is autistic. Then, if things do come up in the future or if you do need certain things, then it will be easier to arrange those things, support, time out, etc. and for the school as a whole to understand why.
If a student just goes in and starts expecting people to treat them differently and doesn't really give a reason, or is doing things in a "different way" and it's causing the teacher a problem where they can't teach because of it, then there is going to be a problem.
Teachers will often see disorders as just "students behaving badly", Which may get you into trouble when you possibly don't realise what you're doing wrong. So if they as adults and educators are aware of your issues they can understand them better by educating themselves.
If the teacher knows that their student has autism, and is unable to learn the same ways, or communicate or whatever, then they know that they are going to have to adjust certain things, and most reasonable people will make those adjustments, or the school will help you in certain ways.
I fully understand that you may not want people to know, perhaps because you think it means they will treat you more negatively, than positively, but if the experiences you are having now are largely negative due to people not knowing, then it may be that things are improved.
In the first instance, I would talk to (both) your parent(s) and the school counsellor if there is one, or the principal, to have a conversation to see what can be done, and take their advice to see if it's worth mentioning, because both your parents and the principal will know the personalities of people - like the music teacher - and will be able to give advice on whether or not it's even worth telling them.
It could be that the music teacher has taught autistic people before or has a relative that is autistic or has even studied psychology as a minor university and may understand it. It could be that the music teacher is a fucking douchebag and doesn't care...
It's difficult to know whether or not these people can help, without giving them the opportunity.
Except for the fact that this music coach is a former student at my school who graduated recently
I understand this. But ultimately it’s your music teachers job to teach you and adapt to your learning style. Not you adapting to their teaching style. There needs to be a middle ground.
I think it might be worthwhile telling them that your Autistic and that you learn things differently.
Example, maybe you need more specific instructions. Or maybe you need more time to process and regulate your emotions, etc….
If your teacher STILL is like “nope not an excuse etc…” then that when you need to get a new teacher
Sorry but I really don’t feel comfortable telling my music coach that I have autism
Totally valid, maybe just emphasise how you learn, and if your teacher is still dismissive, then the writing is on the wall
I’m not sure how to describe how I learn like what should I tell him to tell me instead of the stuff I listed
Would you say you’re the kind of person that needs VERY specific instructions, transparency, and expectations? Maybe ask those sorts of questions which might rule out any confusion.
People confuse our need for clear and direct communication with “black and white” thinking when really we’re just looking for reference points and then we’ll be able to CLEARLY see the nuances.
But I would start with that, really outline with your teacher exactly what their expectations are of you as a student.
Well, so far the only things I don’t want my music coach to say are things like “the world isn’t gonna coddle you” and “you need thick skin” and instead say some things that might be more constructive to an autistic person
Maybe set boundary and express that you don’t want to be spoken to like a child just for wanting a bit of guidance or emotional support. I do hope it works out for you. But I see this as a good opportunity to advocate for youself
What’s infantilizing about the stuff I didn’t wanna hear? I’ve been told that it’s immature to only “hear what you wanna hear”
The phase “you’re not a kid anymore. The world isn’t gonna coddle you” - to me anyway, comes across as infantilising and just plain rude. That wouldn’t work on anyone even if you’re autistic or not.
Well if there’s one thing I want my music coach to do is to praise me more for my accomplishments and doing stuff he told me to do
I’m sorry if I don’t understand something… I was studying in a music school for 9 years as a kid. But I don’t think any of the things you wrote are related to learning music 😅 He is not your life coach or parent or something, I don’t think he is supposed to say things like that. It’s your life, autistic or not. I don’t think NTs would be happy to hear instructions like this either.
If he said it meaning you need to work harder or accept strict criticism better… well maybe he could take a better approach as a coach too? I e experienced that kind of teaching and honestly it didn’t do me any good and also made me lose interest in the subject. There is no way one way or training is the only correct one and should work on everyone. I believe that a good teacher should care about their student, not themselves and their methods.
Sorry if I misunderstood the situation! 😓
"This is the best way to do it."
Wanna bet!?
Calm down, when I'm in a situation where i can't because something's gone wrong.
"You're gonna experience this in the real world."
This isn’t to answer your question, but I would like to respond to his statements: “You’re not a kid anymore” I know. “The world isn’t gonna coddle you” Good, it’s not my mom. “You need thick skin” Every phlebotomist I’ve ever met says otherwise. “You see this as black and white with no awareness of the gray area” Sorry, I was squinting to see through the fog of your ignorance, and the gray filtered out. Oops.
Wait black and white thinking is an autism thing?!?! WOAH 🤯
"Stop that" (stimming)
“Don’t be weird.”
I think a lot of things people often say along these lines — instructing others how to behave or how they should feel — are pointless no matter who they’re aimed at. Some may poke at our specific challenges in some way. But this one seems, to me, particularly pointed and painful because it feels like a criticism of our fundamental selves no matter how we’re behaving.